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March, 2024

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Is it me or the skis/How to ski rockered skis?

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LineSkier
Posts: 243 - Karma: 446
I'm assuming it's me. Yesterday was my first time on a pair of full rocker skis-- I demo'd a pair of Faction CT 3.0's (mounted at the all-mountain line). I was in Tahoe. Conditions were 8" of fresh on top of spring hardpack (there had been rain in the previous days). For reference, my daily drivers are 4FRNT MSP's (stiff, full camber).

The biggest thing I noticed right away (in pow/crud) was that I kept catching the tails during short turns. It felt almost like the ski wanted me to be actively working the tails and applying pressure in the area behind my boot with every turn. I'm accustomed to being able to just drive the shovel across the fall line and the tail following naturally. I ended up having to lean back a lot more than I usually would in order to keep pressure on the tails. Instinctively that feels wrong (and made it a lot more likely that I'd get bucked by a knuckle), but I couldn't figure out how else to ski them without catching tails all over the place. I assume I'm missing something important about the stance I need either on these particular skis or on rockered skis in general. Can anyone offer advice?
Mar 24 2017 12:29PM
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AndrewGravesSV
Posts: 3067 - Karma: 14,904
I'd say lean forward more so your pressure is on mid ski. I don't think you really want pressure on your tails anyway cause you want your force to be under your boots to carve
Mar 26 2017 4:38PM
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burkboy
Posts: 2 - Karma: 20
I have ridden a few pairs of moments this year because I didn't have my skis with me. Both are rocketed and I know exactly what you are talking about. always leaning back to work through the heavy stuff. In other conditions they don't catch at all. Got the J Ski friend this year and the tail shape is amazing with some rise in the tip, I went pretty big for my height and weight at 5'7" 140 I went with the 186
Mar 26 2017 4:53PM
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.Brink.
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 188
If you like MSP's try 4frnt devastators. Fucking love my pair they are amazing. The "reflect tech" (which means the sidecut matches the rocker profile) actually works and eliminates all the hooking that I experience with my other rockered skis and make you a lot more confident to push them hard and fast in any condition. fyi i'm 225 and 6'3" and ski the 194s. Try them you won't be disappointed, they ski like a GS ski on hardpack and then rip and float in fresh snow.
Mar 26 2017 5:39PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
Interestingly enough I've had the same experience with rockered skis. Normally I ski skinny full camber park skis but I'm in colorado at the moment so I've been using other stuff. I did feel like I needed to pressure the tails to prevent them from hooking up, or ski kinda backseat or something. If you lean forward a lot and press the tongues of your boots the tails do weird things. It felt like I really needed to pay attention to the tails. It's more when you're kinda smearing turns and navigating bumps and only half using edges, not ripping full edge turns on groomed or smooth terrain.

I thought SFBs (the blue and white ones) didn't do this, and JJs (no 2.0s) don't seem to do it much either, but some of the others I've tried do. Maybe I'll get used to it and this will stop though, who knows.
Mar 26 2017 9:52PM
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japanada
Posts: 13784 - Karma: 1,957
Been skiing a 4frnt Hoji as my DD for years now and full rockered skis like a pretty centered stance on anything but super steep terrain. At least when compared to more of a traditional cambered ski.
Mar 26 2017 11:13PM
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.Brink.
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 188
japanadaBeen skiing a 4frnt Hoji as my DD for years now and full rockered skis like a pretty centered stance on anything but super steep terrain. At least when compared to more of a traditional cambered ski.


hoji's also have reflect tech, it works amazingly well. I thought it was gimmicky until I skied my devastators and they give me more confidence than any pair of skis I've had before. https://4frnt.com/products/hoji-2016
Mar 27 2017 12:00AM
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1624 - Karma: 8,663
pretty different shape than the CT 3.0 (which also, has some camber if it's this year's?), but I road Dynafit Chugach's for a a bit which are fully rockered. I didn't really have many problems with hookiness as I ski with a pretty centered stance and don't ski my shovels too much. I found when skiing centered you get the pivot-ability of the flat bases but when leaning over on edge you can engage a lot of the effective edge the harder you carve. By no means an expert but I could see how driving the shovels a lot on a rockered ski could lose some effective edge, but unfortunately I didn't test this out too much when I was on the Dynafits. Hopefully some of the ski manufacturers chime in that know a lot more about this than I do.
Mar 27 2017 12:13AM
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Casey
Posts: 7785 - Karma: 23,468
I have had Hellbents for like 5 years and I am not sure what you are talking about. But my experience is that it is super weird to go back and forth between those and more directional cambered skis mounted further back. You get used to whatever you ride but if you didn't like them then probly don't buy em!
Mar 27 2017 12:40AM
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Brule.
Posts: 3846 - Karma: 5,658
Rockered skis feel a lot shorter than they actually are when you're riding around on them. Only advice is to move your center of mass forward rather than backwards.
Mar 27 2017 10:17AM
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LineSkier
Posts: 243 - Karma: 446
I think it's probably that this particular ski mounted at the all-mountain line is not great for Lake Tahoe. It was damn near impossible to make a quick turn across the fall line in crappy snow in the steeps without really getting on the tails.
Mar 27 2017 1:33PM
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seanahue.
Posts: 2142 - Karma: 3,368
rather than the problem being you or your skiing style, my guess is that your tail contact points probably just need to be detuned with a gummy/file
Mar 27 2017 2:47PM
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LineSkier
Posts: 243 - Karma: 446
seanahue.rather than the problem being you or your skiing style, my guess is that your tail contact points probably just need to be detuned with a gummy/file


The tail catching I'm talking about was more being bogged down in heavy snow on steeps than edge catching. I'm not sure detuning the tails would have made a difference.
Mar 27 2017 3:23PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
Typically with rocketed skis you have to drive the ski a lot more. Like the turning will initiate for you more than traditional skis, but you really have a lean into them and push it.
Mar 27 2017 3:38PM
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1624 - Karma: 8,663
was just looking back at this and it looks like Jonathan had a similar experience with the tails feeling a bit hooky: http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2016-2017-faction-candide-3-0/2

I'm guessing it's due to more than just the rocker profile, with the tail shape and tune probably making an impact as well.
Mar 27 2017 5:28PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
patagonialukewas just looking back at this and it looks like Jonathan had a similar experience with the tails feeling a bit hooky: http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2016-2017-faction-candide-3-0/2

I'm guessing it's due to more than just the rocker profile, with the tail shape and tune probably making an impact as well.


Detuneing from the contact point to the tip/tail on a rockered ski is very important. Didn't even think to ask of this happened (a lot of manufacturers are actually sending them out detuned at that point).
Mar 27 2017 5:33PM
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leprechaunsissy
Posts: 645 - Karma: 237
I've been on the Candide 4.0s all season and I love them. Had the tail issue a bit right at the start, but found they just need a really stance over the boot, and also to treat turning more like a pivot than a full-on carve.
Mar 27 2017 6:23PM
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E-fry
Posts: 601 - Karma: 2,171
Ski faster
Mar 27 2017 6:40PM
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LineSkier
Posts: 243 - Karma: 446
leprechaunsissyI've been on the Candide 4.0s all season and I love them. Had the tail issue a bit right at the start, but found they just need a really stance over the boot, and also to treat turning more like a pivot than a full-on carve.


Were they mounted at the All Mountain or the "Candide" line? The 3.0's felt very much like they would have handled better mounted in front of the All Mountain line.
Mar 28 2017 12:29PM
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leprechaunsissy
Posts: 645 - Karma: 237
LineSkierWere they mounted at the All Mountain or the "Candide" line? The 3.0's felt very much like they would have handled better mounted in front of the All Mountain line.


All-mountain line. For me they are honestly some of the most fun skis I've ridden. That being said, it's a different approach. I spent the last weekend on my 196cm governors which have far less rocker, and it was a completely different feel.
Mar 28 2017 1:38PM
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