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Josh__PeckEconomic liberalism (aka classic liberalism) is a right wing ideology.
"I don't have an argument so I'll refer to ad-hominems to look cool on the internet"
Further to my point, yes classic liberalism was right wing. But there was a shift in the 60's and 70's away from protectionist policy. Now, you have both left wing and right wing political parties with free trade, free enterprise,etc,etc.
Enter Donald Trump, arguing for protectionist policy is the complete opposite of classic liberalism, and yet he represents the right wing party in America. So please tell me how you can claim liberalism is right wing ideology when your presidential candidate wants protectionist policy? And before you claim Trump has never stated he doesn't want protectionist policy. Well NAFTA and other free trade agreements mean countries can trade free of quotas, or tariffs. When Trump says he's going to re-negoiate the trade deals, the only way is to re-introduce quotas and tariffs.
S.J.WFurther to my point, yes classic liberalism was right wing. But there was a shift in the 60's and 70's away from protectionist policy. Now, you have both left wing and right wing political parties with free trade, free enterprise,etc,etc.
Enter Donald Trump, arguing for protectionist policy is the complete opposite of classic liberalism, and yet he represents the right wing party in America. So please tell me how you can claim liberalism is right wing ideology when your presidential candidate wants protectionist policy? And before you claim Trump has never stated he doesn't want protectionist policy. Well NAFTA and other free trade agreements mean countries can trade free of quotas, or tariffs. When Trump says he's going to re-negoiate the trade deals, the only way is to re-introduce quotas and tariffs.
Never said you supported Trump. I'm asking how you can currently claim liberalism is a right wing ideology when the current Republican presidential candidate opposes free trade deals and wants to re-negoiote them. It's a simple question. Are you going to answer it?
Furthermore Trump does not represent "The right-wing party". He represents the republican party. Hillary Clinton represents the Democratic party, which is also right wing. The only American politicians who could be considered left wing are Sanders and Stein (and even then it's a stretch)
S.J.WNever said you supported Trump. I'm asking how you can currently claim liberalism is a right wing ideology when the current Republican presidential candidate opposes free trade deals and wants to re-negoiote them. It's a simple question. Are you going to answer it?
Liberalism is a right wing ideology regardless of who is the current republican candidate.
S.J.WI find it hilarious how Americans use owning guns as something to be proud of. Like you guys can't own guns, so you're country sucks. News flash, no one gives a fuck about guns apart from the US. It's not something to be proud of.
For how butthurt you get over guns you must be really jealous of us. Sucks to suck I guess.
Josh__PeckFurthermore Trump does not represent "The right-wing party". He represents the republican party. Hillary Clinton represents the Democratic party, which is also right wing. The only American politicians who could be considered left wing are Sanders and Stein (and even then it's a stretch)
"A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of Independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
Josh__PeckFurthermore Trump does not represent "The right-wing party". He represents the republican party. Hillary Clinton represents the Democratic party, which is also right wing. The only American politicians who could be considered left wing are Sanders and Stein (and even then it's a stretch)
Josh__PeckLiberalism is a right wing ideology regardless of who is the current republican candidate.
Thanks for completely proving my point. Both Democrats, and republicans (pre Trump) since the end of protectionist policy have advocated for free trade and free market. Aka, economic liberalism. You're completely forgetting that politics changes. And if you went back to the 50's with tariffs and quotas, yes the democrat party would be considered right wing. But since the abolishment of protectionist policy, social and fiscal policies have been the main driver of someones political beliefs. You probably saw one political compass which put the democrats and republicans fairly close together and now think you're being edgy by saying Democrats are right wing. And if that's the case, then the majority of major political parties are right wing...
JAHpowFor how butthurt you get over guns you must be really jealous of us. Sucks to suck I guess.
"we should not allow those on the no fly list to buy guns"
NRA"HOW FUCKING DARE THEY, THIS IS A BREACH OF OUR FREEDOMS, OH MY GOD WE NEED TO BLOCK THIS LEGISLATION. TERRORISTS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BUY GUNS!!!!!"
S.J.W"we should not allow those on the no fly list to buy guns"
NRA"HOW FUCKING DARE THEY, THIS IS A BREACH OF OUR FREEDOMS, OH MY GOD WE NEED TO BLOCK THIS LEGISLATION. TERRORISTS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BUY GUNS!!!!!"
The thing is, I don't give two shits about guns.
If you want to have the highest rate of gun deaths a year, highest suicide rate, highest mass murder rate, etc,etc. Go ahead, keep your guns. I'm never moving to America so if your shit hole cesspool just keeps killing each other, hopefully there'll be no America left.
implying that talking about guns means someone cares about guns. If you want to shoot each other, have a toddler shoot you, have a person with a mental disorder shoot you, a terrorist shoot you. Go ahead. Keep your guns. Like I said, I'm never going to move to America. Your high death rate at the hands of guns has no effect on me what so ever. Now I'm going to go watch Inferno tonight, and not have to worry about being shot. :)
S.J.WIf you want to have the highest rate of gun deaths a year, highest suicide rate, highest mass murder rate, etc,etc. Go ahead, keep your guns. I'm never moving to America so if your shit hole cesspool just keeps killing each other, hopefully there'll be no America left.
Holy shit angry keyboard warrior.
On a bender or what? Fucking crazy! So you want no America left? Its getting heated in here haha
"A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of Independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
George Washington
"More than 33,000 Americans are killed by guns each year. It’s time to act. As President, I'll take on the gun lobby and fight for commonsense reforms to keep guns away from terrorists, domestic abusers, and other violent criminals—including comprehensive background checks and closing loopholes that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands."
And:
“I do support comprehensive background checks, and to close the gun show loophole, and the online loophole, and what's called the Charleston loophole, and to prevent people on the no-fly list from getting guns,” said Clinton.
It's never been about taking guns away.
It just seems rational and logical, unless you're a mentally ill convicted felon that's a no-fly list, of course.
S.J.WThanks for completely proving my point. Both Democrats, and republicans (pre Trump) since the end of protectionist policy have advocated for free trade and free market. Aka, economic liberalism. You're completely forgetting that politics changes. And if you went back to the 50's with tariffs and quotas, yes the democrat party would be considered right wing. But since the abolishment of protectionist policy, social and fiscal policies have been the main driver of someones political beliefs. You probably saw one political compass which put the democrats and republicans fairly close together and now think you're being edgy by saying Democrats are right wing. And if that's the case, then the majority of major political parties are right wing...
American politics are almost entirely based in the upper right wing of the political spectrum.
The democratic party isnt considered leftist just because they're not as right leaning ad the republican party. Its a right wing ideology because of its policies and principles.
S.J.Wimplying that talking about guns means someone cares about guns. If you want to shoot each other, have a toddler shoot you, have a person with a mental disorder shoot you, a terrorist shoot you. Go ahead. Keep your guns. Like I said, I'm never going to move to America. Your high death rate at the hands of guns has no effect on me what so ever. Now I'm going to go watch Inferno tonight, and not have to worry about being shot. :)
S.J.WIf you want to have the highest rate of gun deaths a year, highest suicide rate, highest mass murder rate, etc,etc. Go ahead, keep your guns. I'm never moving to America so if your shit hole cesspool just keeps killing each other, hopefully there'll be no America left.
Then get comfortable, it'll take a while for .0001% of the population dieing at the hands of someone or themselves with a gun to make a dent.
S.J.Wimplying that talking about guns means someone cares about guns. If you want to shoot each other, have a toddler shoot you, have a person with a mental disorder shoot you, a terrorist shoot you. Go ahead. Keep your guns. Like I said, I'm never going to move to America. Your high death rate at the hands of guns has no effect on me what so ever. Now I'm going to go watch Inferno tonight, and not have to worry about being shot. :)
No one here worries about getting shot. Except Chicago, and they banned guns.
JAHpowNo one here worries about getting shot. Except Chicago, and they banned guns.
Obviously, all they have to do is go to Indiana, buy guns, bring them back, shoot people.
Strict gun laws could only work if every state is on the same page.
BrawnTrendsObviously, all they have to do is go to Indiana, buy guns, bring them back, shoot people.
Strict gun laws could only work if every state is on the same page.
Because that's totally how the weapons blackmarket works.
Strict gun laws won't work in America. We have too many guns in circulation.
Furthermore America has:
A large scale drug war (It's being toned down but it's still very much alive)
Soaring heroin and other drug addiction rates
Extremely high crime rates in highly populated urban areas (due to the above factors as well as high poverty rates).
Poor mental health treatment
These contribute to gun violence more than any other factor. Gun laws are not the solution.
FrozinballzNo, as long as their American.
Big difference. Fucking liberals spin it and get offensive and butthurt, its ridiculous. It's called having a country. The biggest racial issue we have right now is the one people make up, like what you are doing right now. Black lives matter for example has created a bigger divide than helping anything. So much violence. Go watch Lil Waynes most recent interview. People are wild
so you are telling me that if an obvious muslim walks into a gun store in lets say arizona, they will be treated the same as any old joe shmoe honkey?
GORILLAWALLACEso you are telling me that if an obvious muslim walks into a gun store in lets say arizona, they will be treated the same as any old joe shmoe honkey?
Everything is possible in this country. The Orlando shooter had bought an AR-15 and a handgun at a Florida gun store juste 10 days before the shooting, even though he had been investigated twice by the FBI for ties to terror networks in the previous years.
Josh__PeckBecause that's totally how the weapons blackmarket works.
Strict gun laws won't work in America. We have too many guns in circulation.
Furthermore America has:
A large scale drug war (It's being toned down but it's still very much alive)
Soaring heroin and other drug addiction rates
Extremely high crime rates in highly populated urban areas (due to the above factors as well as high poverty rates).
Poor mental health treatment
These contribute to gun violence more than any other factor. Gun laws are not the solution.
The issue is guns are incredibly dangerous in the wrong hands. Significantly more dangerous than a knife, or bow and arrow, etc.
Cars can be just as dangerous, but still not quite. But cars are necessary and serve a super important purpose beyond killing and fun.
And that is the argument for draconian gun laws. The only real use for most guns is killing and fun... and your fun shouldn't outweigh my safety. Which I frankly agree with.
Most people that are capable of killing and would actually go through with an attack have connections to get their hands on a gun regardless of any laws. Like josh-peck said there are way too many guns already in circulation. Good luck rounding all the guns up from bad people, because Ill tell you what I am a good person but even myself wouldn't turn any gun over to a very possibly corrupt government until they show up at my doorstep aiming one at me.
In a small aspect this mirrors legalizing pot. Just because pot is illegal in many states and has been for so long, doesn't mean people are going to stop smoking weed. Stoners will be stoners and they will have connections to get it. Since when was smoking weed not a thing when it was illegal in every state of America. Yes I understand weed is tenfold less dangerous than guns, but the concept still applies.
FrozinballzMost people that are capable of killing and would actually go through with an attack have connections to get their hands on a gun regardless of any laws. Like josh-peck said there are way too many guns already in circulation. Good luck rounding all the guns up from bad people, because Ill tell you what I am a good person but even myself wouldn't turn any gun over to a very possibly corrupt government until they show up at my doorstep aiming one at me.
In a small aspect this mirrors legalizing pot. Just because pot is illegal in many states and has been for so long, doesn't mean people are going to stop smoking weed. Stoners will be stoners and they will have connections to get it. Since when was smoking weed not a thing when it was illegal in every state of America. Yes I understand weed is tenfold less dangerous than guns, but the concept still applies.
How do you explain Australia, and their near absence of gun violence following the 1980ish banning of most guns?
californiagrownHow do you explain Australia, and their near absence of gun violence following the 1980ish banning of most guns?
Or in Switzerland, fourth on the list for number of guns per capita. And yet gun violence there is minimal.
Maybe it has to do with training? Swiss people have to go through military training (or at least civil service) when they reach a certain age.
It's too bad that corrupt congress, being in the NRA's pocket, is banning research on guns, because it would be interesting to see if veterans are less prone to gun violence than the civilian folks.
BrawnTrendsOr in Switzerland, fourth on the list for number of guns per capita. And yet gun violence there is minimal.
Maybe it has to do with training? Swiss people have to go through military training (or at least civil service) when they reach a certain age.
It's too bad that corrupt congress, being in the NRA's pocket, is banning research on guns, because it would be interesting to see if veterans are less prone to gun violence than the civilian folks.
The argument is cultural. Especially in Switzerland where it is less diverse, and generally more wealthy.
I am a big fan of having to pass a basic gun profiency test to be able to own a gun.
californiagrownThe argument is cultural. Especially in Switzerland where it is less diverse, and generally more wealthy.
I am a big fan of having to pass a basic gun profiency test to be able to own a gun.
Maybe Switzerland wasn't the best example. What about Serbia? Second on that list, with 75 guns per 100 habitants and yet the murder rate is 1.2 per 100,000 population. The US is at 3.9 murder per 100,000 population (with 112 guns per 100 habitants).
BrawnTrendsMaybe Switzerland wasn't the best example. What about Serbia? Second on that list, with 75 guns per 100 habitants and yet the murder rate is 1.2 per 100,000 population. The US is at 3.9 murder per 100,000 population (with 112 guns per 100 habitants).
Id interested to see how murder rates are affected in the years after a country has gone to war.
FrozinballzDifferent country, different people, different stats, opposite side of the world. C'mon
Stats are pretty darn similar. Similar settler/wild west heritage. Idk, what specifically means we can't use any aspect of Australia's situation for comparison?
Do you think any aspect of their situation can be used to analyze America's gun situation?
