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watching the new bunch edit reminded me of like a supreme skate edit or something. Also it seems like they were just fucking around, hitting short rails with pretty much no lips.
that being said why waste all day trying to 2 pretz 4 an uphill quad kink with a winch when you can just hit smaller features and have fun with friends? I respect the guys who want to try and stack shots like that but if people are ever going to hit urban just for fun it's not going to be like stept or level 1 do.
that being said why waste all day trying to 2 pretz 4 an uphill quad kink with a winch when you can just hit smaller features and have fun with friends? I respect the guys who want to try and stack shots like that but if people are ever going to hit urban just for fun it's not going to be like stept or level 1 do.
its the same way you and your friends going to skate around town aren't going to sesh a giant 20 stair unless you have a photographer there to send your pic to thrasher
The street skiing Clayton and Cam and the rest of Stept did was largely unsustainable. Loved it all but never did I care to try myself.
The first time I hit a spot with the Bunch guys was so weird. I didn't even realize we were hitting a spot. I had to ask if it counted as urban because it was so easy, non-chalant and fun. There was no sneaking around, natty speed, we did it in daylight with a huge squad and just sessioned no different than an early season set up at killington.
Well it's definitely getting more and more diverse. Now you have people going big, getting tech, some look out for more unusual spots, some have more of a fun approach to it, etc. To me, as long as the shot looks cool in the end.
Though I would like to see more companies supporting that side of skiing, and more kids doing it. In snowboarding, you have probably 4x as many people putting out street parts every year.
I agree with mast people here, if so i think its a good thing. Leevin (and kinda all bunch urban edits) have such a chill vibe that makes it feel more real than tom walnuts jumping off 20 story buildings and shit. Dont get me wrong, mad respect for that too.
It's sick how something so small can become a feature. Skateboarding does this so well, a little roller can turn into a full blown sesh. And it's sick because if you live near a feature that you've seen you can go to the feature and sesh it with your mates. When I see these huge rails pros like Wallisch, or Basset does it's fucking sick, but there's something about knowing you're hitting the same feature as a pro which is pretty cool. It's cool to see how creative some people can get.
I think inspiration for skiing comes from alot of different things, and the bunch definitely seems to have that skate vibe. I think its sweet how skiing can have so many different styles
Dennis_Reynoldswatching the new bunch edit reminded me of like a supreme skate edit or something. Also it seems like they were just fucking around, hitting short rails with pretty much no lips.
Thoughts?
with the camera from 1998 and having it right next to there skis and off beat music is totally like a supreme street skate edit
that being said why waste all day trying to 2 pretz 4 an uphill quad kink with a winch when you can just hit smaller features and have fun with friends? I respect the guys who want to try and stack shots like that but if people are ever going to hit urban just for fun it's not going to be like stept or level 1 do.
I agree, so much urban is shown as a waste of time. I like the transition to making urban more fun
I get what you guys are saying about people moving away from the huge winch stuff, but hasn't the goal of street skiing always been to make skiing seem more like skateboarding?
I'm also stoked on the move toward smaller, non-winch urban features. Stept certainly did a good job of making it clear that what they do isn't actually very fun with their last movie.
But, did we watch the same edit? Karl's first shit was fucked up, so was ware's disaster and the bowl/quarter pipe slide around the corner. And magnus went buck on that crazy concrete whale/roller with the rainbow rail. I personally thought the edit had a lot of hammers. Maxi is an animal and I like his approach a lot. He's stupid talented, but some times the really little silly stuff doesn't translate so well to video for me. But his shots in a recent edit where he's tossing mistys off a tube, and tranny finding on the side of a jump landing are crazy.
idk why skiers n snowboarders are still building jumps for urban rails anyways. if a skateboarder can kick flip on to a rail, then snowboarders and skiers can ollie onto
a rail. yea i understand some cant ollie high enough for it and it's lot easier to spin onto
a rail if you have a side jump. i always thought it look sick when there wasn't a side jump
in the vid or pic. i remember dave c. and thall were hitting a dfd with no jump jus a small platform and they were doing nollies and ollies on to it. magnus got them nollies on lock,
him and warnick only ones I've seen who makes them look good.
funkynuggzidk why skiers n snowboarders are still building jumps for urban rails anyways. if a skateboarder can kick flip on to a rail, then snowboarders and skiers can ollie onto
a rail. yea i understand some cant ollie high enough for it and it's lot easier to spin onto
a rail if you have a side jump. i always thought it look sick when there wasn't a side jump
in the vid or pic. i remember dave c. and thall were hitting a dfd with no jump jus a small platform and they were doing nollies and ollies on to it. magnus got them nollies on lock,
him and warnick only ones I've seen who makes them look good.
funkynuggzidk why skiers n snowboarders are still building jumps for urban rails anyways. if a skateboarder can kick flip on to a rail, then snowboarders and skiers can ollie onto
a rail. yea i understand some cant ollie high enough for it and it's lot easier to spin onto
a rail if you have a side jump. i always thought it look sick when there wasn't a side jump
in the vid or pic. i remember dave c. and thall were hitting a dfd with no jump jus a small platform and they were doing nollies and ollies on to it. magnus got them nollies on lock,
him and warnick only ones I've seen who makes them look good.
can't find the video but I think I remember Dom Laporte doing hitting a rail switch with no lip in one of the older Tabarnak episodes
BroBomb had pointed out a while ago that skiers and snowboarders both want to be skateboarders. Also this edit style isn't new, nor is it something Supreme thought up.
case in point ABM vs Vincent Gagnier in SLVSH. so not looking forward to see all the kids backsliding snd frontsliding and that foot dragging straight fruit booter trick. totally respect them for sliding a fucking quad kink with one foot but fuck me. if thats the future, im out. ima snowboard.
case in point ABM vs Vincent Gagnier in SLVSH. so not looking forward to see all the kids backsliding snd frontsliding and that foot dragging straight fruit booter trick. totally respect them for sliding a fucking quad kink with one foot but fuck me. if thats the future, im out. ima snowboard.
but you chose two skiers with some of the most rollerblade-y style in the game dude, that's not an accurate gauge of the sport
Dennis_Reynoldswatching the new bunch edit reminded me of like a supreme skate edit or something. Also it seems like they were just fucking around, hitting short rails with pretty much no lips.
Thoughts?
KaleThere are no rules
We can only hope. Crackers still thinking theres a certain way things gotta be done, hahahaha
Skateboarding is mad technical and difficult even for small features, unlike skiing. In skateboarding you are not attached to your equipment, and using your equipment requires unique body posture and motor skills. If you think about it, skiers stand up like normal, they jump like normal, they spin like normal. That's why you see NS'ers jibbing curbs and slaying tricks like 270 on pretzel 630 out in the off season. Skiing body mechanics are directly relatable. Skiing is honestly easy. The biggest rail a skateboarder has slid is dwarfed by the rails skiers can/ have slid. So when a skier is hitting a 3 set staircase, how is that cool. A 1st grader with his mom could jump that. So why is a grown man/ woman thinking that this feature is cool and what they are doing has this disproportionate value? Essentially my point is, Skateboarding and Skiing play by different rules. So to finish my rant I pose this question, "If Skiing and Skateboarding are so relatable and similar, why don't you see skateboarders doing 30 foot disasters to rails or doubles in the streets?"
Me_N_ChrisSkateboarding is mad technical and difficult even for small features, unlike skiing. In skateboarding you are not attached to your equipment, and using your equipment requires unique body posture and motor skills. If you think about it, skiers stand up like normal, they jump like normal, they spin like normal. That's why you see NS'ers jibbing curbs and slaying tricks like 270 on pretzel 630 out in the off season. Skiing body mechanics are directly relatable. Skiing is honestly easy. The biggest rail a skateboarder has slid is dwarfed by the rails skiers can/ have slid. So when a skier is hitting a 3 set staircase, how is that cool. A 1st grader with his mom could jump that. So why is a grown man/ woman thinking that this feature is cool and what they are doing has this disproportionate value? Essentially my point is, Skateboarding and Skiing play by different rules. So to finish my rant I pose this question, "If Skiing and Skateboarding are so relatable and similar, why don't you see skateboarders doing 30 foot disasters to rails or doubles in the streets?"
I get what your saying, but I think OP was just saying the style was similar, not the specific tricks, or how big they are going. I think surfing and paddle boarding are very similar, even though surfers are doing all kinds of crazy airs, and paddle boarders just kind of go down the line.
Me_N_ChrisSkateboarding is mad technical and difficult even for small features, unlike skiing. In skateboarding you are not attached to your equipment, and using your equipment requires unique body posture and motor skills. If you think about it, skiers stand up like normal, they jump like normal, they spin like normal. That's why you see NS'ers jibbing curbs and slaying tricks like 270 on pretzel 630 out in the off season. Skiing body mechanics are directly relatable. Skiing is honestly easy. The biggest rail a skateboarder has slid is dwarfed by the rails skiers can/ have slid. So when a skier is hitting a 3 set staircase, how is that cool. A 1st grader with his mom could jump that. So why is a grown man/ woman thinking that this feature is cool and what they are doing has this disproportionate value? Essentially my point is, Skateboarding and Skiing play by different rules. So to finish my rant I pose this question, "If Skiing and Skateboarding are so relatable and similar, why don't you see skateboarders doing 30 foot disasters to rails or doubles in the streets?"
I disagree, skiing and skateboarding don't play by different rules. Someone could just as easily put bindings on a skateboard and start doing disasters and shit, just like people could start hitting urban with nordic gear.
the rules are the same, we just chose to play the game different ways. either way looking at just difficulty is ignoring a huge chunk of the picture
Me_N_ChrisSkateboarding is mad technical and difficult even for small features, unlike skiing. In skateboarding you are not attached to your equipment, and using your equipment requires unique body posture and motor skills. If you think about it, skiers stand up like normal, they jump like normal, they spin like normal. That's why you see NS'ers jibbing curbs and slaying tricks like 270 on pretzel 630 out in the off season. Skiing body mechanics are directly relatable. Skiing is honestly easy. The biggest rail a skateboarder has slid is dwarfed by the rails skiers can/ have slid. So when a skier is hitting a 3 set staircase, how is that cool. A 1st grader with his mom could jump that. So why is a grown man/ woman thinking that this feature is cool and what they are doing has this disproportionate value? Essentially my point is, Skateboarding and Skiing play by different rules. So to finish my rant I pose this question, "If Skiing and Skateboarding are so relatable and similar, why don't you see skateboarders doing 30 foot disasters to rails or doubles in the streets?"
If somthings cool, its cool. Why does it need to be difficult to be cool? You can sketch the fuck out of a 270 on 6 out and I bet it still wouldn't look as cool as Bmack doing a nolie lip on to switch on a 4 foot rail.
my bad i had the names mixed up, it was frank who said is skateboarders can kick flip onto a rail skiers should be able to ollie onto em. wish i still had the mag. that had his interview about it.
ClamjunkiesI get what your saying, but I think OP was just saying the style was similar, not the specific tricks, or how big they are going. I think surfing and paddle boarding are very similar, even though surfers are doing all kinds of crazy airs, and paddle boarders just kind of go down the line.
But think about it, paddle boarders could surf though. Not as well, but they could. And surf boarders can mellow out and paddle too. Those two sports are in the same category or under the same rules just with slightly varying stipulations. Skiing and Skateboarding have similarities in the people they attract, the consequences, the feeling of doing and watching it. But at the end of a day you can't kick flip a ski. And you can't swap pretzel 270 a skateboard. These stipulations are too big to be stipulations, they're rules at this point.
a_burgerI disagree, skiing and skateboarding don't play by different rules. Someone could just as easily put bindings on a skateboard and start doing disasters and shit, just like people could start hitting urban with nordic gear.
the rules are the same, we just chose to play the game different ways. either way looking at just difficulty is ignoring a huge chunk of the picture
That's the rule, however. One sport is attached and one is not. Because of that one rule, it changes everything. As I said above, but I'll change it slightly to suit this argument, You can't kick flip a snowboard because you're attached. Just like you can't Nose butter a dub cork on a Skateboard because you're not attached.
Dennis_ReynoldsIf somthings cool, its cool. Why does it need to be difficult to be cool? You can sketch the fuck out of a 270 on 6 out and I bet it still wouldn't look as cool as Bmack doing a nolie lip on to switch on a 4 foot rail.
I see cool as a trait or action that is unique. Because if everyone is cool, than nothing is cool. (Example: the cool kids at school are always a small group, never half or more of the school. And even within that group there might only be a few cool cool kids.) So a kid that can 270 on 630 out sketch will always entertain me more because less people can do it, making it cool. While a nollie lip on to a 4 foot handrail is an action that is much more easily replicated. I have never 270'd on 630'd out, and I only personally know 4 people at my home resort to have done that, one being professional and two being amateur (minor sponsorships). But I know 90% of my home hill park skiers can nollie lip on a to a 8 foot rail. And the 10% can learn in a few days maximum. I know because I've been a ski coach. Now there is the argument of style plays a factor. However, appreciation of style is incredibly subjective. So let's exclude that.
But I've seen snowboarder kids at my home mountain doing kickflips?
I'm not even sure what point your trying to make. Even if skiing and skateboarding are different what does that have to do with people hitting smaller street spots? Your assuming everyone cares about difficulty, when if they did they probably wouldn't be filming these spots anyways.
However, appreciation of style is incredibly subjective. So let's exclude that.
I'm not sure theres any point in discussing this further if your gonna say this. might as well exclude it from slopestyle judging and big air too.
a_burgerBut I've seen snowboarder kids at my home mountain doing kickflips?
I'm not even sure what point your trying to make. Even if skiing and skateboarding are different what does that have to do with people hitting smaller street spots? Your assuming everyone cares about difficulty, when if they did they probably wouldn't be filming these spots anyways.
I'm not sure theres any point in discussing this further if your gonna say this. might as well exclude it from slopestyle judging and big air too.
If you are a skier hitting a tiny feature, it is not cool because everyone can do it. It may be fun. But to me it is not cool. And with this in regards to filming, I believe you film cool stuff, not boring things that everyone can do.
My point is don't film tiny little features doing simple tricks because it is worthless in my opinion as stated above.
The reason I'd like to exclude style is simple. If you think The Bunch is stylish, I disagree. I think they ski funny and dress funny. I think the OG Jiberish Team is stylish. You might disagree with that. You might think they ski funny and dress funny. Style is subjective because no one can agree on the best style, and everyone has a valid argument to why their style choice is the best. I wanted to do away with an off-topic subjective debate on style, and stay only on the objective debate "is urban skiing slowly becoming skateboarding?"
So it's possible to kickflip a snowboard. Maybe I should have said Fakie 720 Gazelle Flip. But still it stands. Having something attached to your feet or not changes the rules of how those sports operate. The mechanics are undeniably physically different. Thus a sport that requires attachment to your equipment cannot become a sport that has no attachment to its equipment.
If you don't understand anything I just said I will put it as plainly as possible:
No, urban skiing is not slowly becoming skateboarding because it physically cannot.
Don't film tiny little features doing simple tricks because it is worthless.
Me_N_ChrisIf you are a skier hitting a tiny feature, it is not cool because everyone can do it. It may be fun. But to me it is not cool. And with this in regards to filming, I believe you film cool stuff, not boring things that everyone can do.
My point is don't film tiny little features doing simple tricks because it is worthless in my opinion as stated above.
The reason I'd like to exclude style is simple. If you think The Bunch is stylish, I disagree. I think they ski funny and dress funny. I think the OG Jiberish Team is stylish. You might disagree with that. You might think they ski funny and dress funny. Style is subjective because no one can agree on the best style, and everyone has a valid argument to why their style choice is the best. I wanted to do away with an off-topic subjective debate on style, and stay only on the objective debate "is urban skiing slowly becoming skateboarding?"
So it's possible to kickflip a snowboard. Maybe I should have said Fakie 720 Gazelle Flip. But still it stands. Having something attached to your feet or not changes the rules of how those sports operate. The mechanics are undeniably physically different. Thus a sport that requires attachment to your equipment cannot become a sport that has no attachment to its equipment.
If you don't understand anything I just said I will put it as plainly as possible:
No, urban skiing is not slowly becoming skateboarding because it physically cannot.
Don't film tiny little features doing simple tricks because it is worthless.
Style is subjective.
I agree with you on the first point, skiing is not becoming skateboarding because skiing is vast and a small group hitting urban differently does not represent a shift in the whole sport
However, I think your definition of cool is flawed. Coolness is not objectively based on difficulty, it like style is subjective. Hell pretty much all of newschool skiing is subjective. If you want objective difficulty go to moguls/aerials.
My point is that skiing is not one single thing, which is rad. It's been around so long theres so many ways to enjoy it that of course some people are gonna start drifting towards skateboarding, and some people will like watching it. And theres no reason they should stop.
Me_N_ChrisI see cool as a trait or action that is unique. Because if everyone is cool, than nothing is cool. (Example: the cool kids at school are always a small group, never half or more of the school. And even within that group there might only be a few cool cool kids.) So a kid that can 270 on 630 out sketch will always entertain me more because less people can do it, making it cool. While a nollie lip on to a 4 foot handrail is an action that is much more easily replicated. I have never 270'd on 630'd out, and I only personally know 4 people at my home resort to have done that, one being professional and two being amateur (minor sponsorships). But I know 90% of my home hill park skiers can nollie lip on a to a 8 foot rail. And the 10% can learn in a few days maximum. I know because I've been a ski coach. Now there is the argument of style plays a factor. However, appreciation of style is incredibly subjective. So let's exclude that
a_burgerI agree with you on the first point, skiing is not becoming skateboarding because skiing is vast and a small group hitting urban differently does not represent a shift in the whole sport
However, I think your definition of cool is flawed. Coolness is not objectively based on difficulty, it like style is subjective. Hell pretty much all of newschool skiing is subjective. If you want objective difficulty go to moguls/aerials.
My point is that skiing is not one single thing, which is rad. It's been around so long theres so many ways to enjoy it that of course some people are gonna start drifting towards skateboarding, and some people will like watching it. And theres no reason they should stop.
I agree most of Newschool skiing is subjective. But difficulty is the only way to objectively measure skiing. We can all agree, a front 270 on a box rail is less difficult than a 450 on pretzel 450 on a handrail. That is objectively true and is validated by the community. So I agree let skateboarding skiers skate, but objectively what they do is not difficult. And if we were to operationalize it with my term cool (i.e. Difficulty = cool, cool = valuable) then it's worthless.
Dennis_Reynolds
I'd argue that I've posed a very objective point above to why my point is not subjective.
Me_N_ChrisI agree most of Newschool skiing is subjective. But difficulty is the only way to objectively measure skiing. We can all agree, a front 270 on a box rail is less difficult than a 450 on pretzel 450 on a handrail. That is objectively true and is validated by the community. So I agree let skateboarding skiers skate, but objectively what they do is not difficult. And if we were to operationalize it with my term cool (i.e. Difficulty = cool, cool = valuable) then it's worthless.
I'd argue that I've posed a very objective point above to why my point is not subjective.
Lol youre a chump bud. Comparing apples to oranges. You don't have to spin like a top to do something considered difficult or cool. You have boxed skiing into this idea of what you think it should be and I only feel sorry for you because skiing got a lot more fun when I realized that a sesh on a rock or log can be as much fun as a sesh on a dfd
brotoLol youre a chump bud. Comparing apples to oranges. You don't have to spin like a top to do something considered difficult or cool. You have boxed skiing into this idea of what you think it should be and I only feel sorry for you because skiing got a lot more fun when I realized that a sesh on a rock or log can be as much fun as a sesh on a dfd
If you read the entire exchange above you would have realized your argument has already been debated on and nullified.
I stated previously that Skiing and Skateboarding are like apples and oranges. Both are action sports with a similar demographic. But they function on different sets of rules. And the set of rules being defined by whether the sport is attached to their equipment or not. Just like Apples and Oranges are fruit. But Oranges are a Citrus fruit and apples are a Pome fruit.
I operationalized "difficulty" and "coolness" as value. I said in my last post, being fun does not give an action enough value to be considered valuable enough to receive praise for the tricks done. It must be accompanied with Difficulty. Also I stated above, please go have fun with your friends and skate on your skis all you want. But it will not have the objective value you think it has.
And yes, I do agree you don't have to "spin like a top" to do a cool trick. You can blunt side a quad kink or switch 5050 a handrail, and those would both be cool and difficult, which means valuable in this debate. But nollie lip sliding a 4 foot hand rail presumed to be cool (cool being synonymous with difficult, and both terms equalling valuable) is a joke.
So I urge you to not start arguments that have already been had and then proceed to riddle them with insults. Especially if your argument's biggest points are "You're a chump, because you don't get it."
Me_N_ChrisIf you read the entire exchange above you would have realized your argument has already been debated on and nullified.
I stated previously that Skiing and Skateboarding are like apples and oranges. Both are action sports with a similar demographic. But they function on different sets of rules. And the set of rules being defined by whether the sport is attached to their equipment or not. Just like Apples and Oranges are fruit. But Oranges are a Citrus fruit and apples are a Pome fruit.
I operationalized "difficulty" and "coolness" as value. I said in my last post, being fun does not give an action enough value to be considered valuable enough to receive praise for the tricks done. It must be accompanied with Difficulty. Also I stated above, please go have fun with your friends and skate on your skis all you want. But it will not have the objective value you think it has.
And yes, I do agree you don't have to "spin like a top" to do a cool trick. You can blunt side a quad kink or switch 5050 a handrail, and those would both be cool and difficult, which means valuable in this debate. But nollie lip sliding a 4 foot hand rail presumed to be cool (cool being synonymous with difficult, and both terms equalling valuable) is a joke.
So I urge you to not start arguments that have already been had and then proceed to riddle them with insults. Especially if your argument's biggest points are "You're a chump, because you don't get it."
for the record I still do not agree with you, I just stopped responding because you aren't listening
objective value is just as subjective as style. Hell even difficulty is subjective, a nollie lipslide is a nollie lipslide, if you can do one on a 4 foot rail you can do one on a 40 foot dfd, its the same motion just your gonna be going a lot faster
tl;dr theres no objectively right/wrong way to ski or film skiing.
Me_N_ChrisIf you are a skier hitting a tiny feature, it is not cool because everyone can do it. It may be fun. But to me it is not cool. And with this in regards to filming, I believe you film cool stuff, not boring things that everyone can do.
My point is don't film tiny little features doing simple tricks because it is worthless in my opinion as stated above.
The reason I'd like to exclude style is simple. If you think The Bunch is stylish, I disagree. I think they ski funny and dress funny. I think the OG Jiberish Team is stylish. You might disagree with that. You might think they ski funny and dress funny. Style is subjective because no one can agree on the best style, and everyone has a valid argument to why their style choice is the best. I wanted to do away with an off-topic subjective debate on style, and stay only on the objective debate "is urban skiing slowly becoming skateboarding?"
So it's possible to kickflip a snowboard. Maybe I should have said Fakie 720 Gazelle Flip. But still it stands. Having something attached to your feet or not changes the rules of how those sports operate. The mechanics are undeniably physically different. Thus a sport that requires attachment to your equipment cannot become a sport that has no attachment to its equipment.
If you don't understand anything I just said I will put it as plainly as possible:
No, urban skiing is not slowly becoming skateboarding because it physically cannot.
Don't film tiny little features doing simple tricks because it is worthless.
Style is subjective.
Totally agree. No one wants to watch some teenage something doing a butter across a fucking 4ft long bench. If your gonna film street it's like backcountry. You're supposed to put work in. If you want to have fun go to the park. That being said street can be fun but that's usually after alot of work setting up and finally getting the trick. For the kids saying no one films like Stept cause stacking shots is wasting time, your a Goon.
a_burgerfor the record I still do not agree with you, I just stopped responding because you aren't listening
objective value is just as subjective as style. Hell even difficulty is subjective, a nollie lipslide is a nollie lipslide, if you can do one on a 4 foot rail you can do one on a 40 foot dfd, its the same motion just your gonna be going a lot faster
tl;dr theres no objectively right/wrong way to ski or film skiing.
After review of your latest season edit, I can tell you have little grasp on technical rail skiing. So I will pardon you for your silly comment that a 4 foot rail is of equal difficulty as a 40 foot double kinked rail. Just please don't make the same mistake twice.
Also IF3 and every ski film production company who has ever entered IF3 highly disagrees that there is no objective way to ski.
T-Lan_DistrictTotally agree. No one wants to watch some teenage something doing a butter across a fucking 4ft long bench. If your gonna film street it's like backcountry. You're supposed to put work in. If you want to have fun go to the park. That being said street can be fun but that's usually after alot of work setting up and finally getting the trick. For the kids saying no one films like Stept cause stacking shots is wasting time, your a Goon.
Me_N_ChrisAfter review of your latest season edit, I can tell you have little grasp on technical rail skiing. So I will pardon you for your silly comment that a 4 foot rail is of equal difficulty as a 40 foot double kinked rail. Just please don't make the same mistake twice.
Also IF3 and every ski film production company who has ever entered IF3 highly disagrees that there is no objective way to ski.
instead of making this about me can you tell me how it is any different?
You obviously can't seem to grasp the concept of people having different opinions d=from your own so im done replying
