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HOLY SHIT YOU PEOPLE ARE THICK
I'm sorry but this is BY FAR the worst argument. You aren't going into perpetual debt, wtf?! Do you not know what debt is. The government isn't going to tax you into debt....
STOP TRYING TO EXPECT EVERYONE TO DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID. JUST STOP.
Lol you posted a meme right above this that says free college. People like you make the left wing look bad.
KravtZThis newest generation of brainwashed morons (As a whole) especially the Bernie Sander's supporter types. Want to see where democratic socialist systems work? Look at france, puerto rico, s.america countries...IT DOESN'T.
I'm not saying socialism works everywhere and I personally do not think it is right for the United States, but Many European countries are socialist as well. And oh yeah, that one country just north of the US.
Turd.FergusonI'm not saying socialism works everywhere and I personally do not think it is right for the United States, but Many European countries are socialist as well. And oh yeah, that one country just north of the US.
It is not working up here. Do not follow in our path
The absolute best part about the negative reaction I got is that it is exactly the type of reaction one would expect from a rich privileged white person, which is 99% of this website. If I thought I was going to get a positive reaction I wouldn't have said anything.
THEPROPHETThe absolute best part about the negative reaction I got is that it is exactly the type of reaction one would expect from a rich privileged white person, which is 99% of this website. If I thought I was going to get a positive reaction I wouldn't have said anything.
Thank You for being so predictable...
Lol and here we go again with the "everyone who skis is rich and white deal".
THEPROPHETif giving people the opportunity to go to college inherently makes them prosperous then yes you can.
GOING TO COLLEGE OR EVEN THE OPPORTUNITY OF COLLEGE DOESN'T GUARANTEE ANYONE SHIT, INCLUDING PROSPERITY. Ask all my friends and family that have bachelors, and masters degrees that have tens of thousands of debt, that are asking a guy like me, without a degree, what to do, to hire them, to show them what I know.
I'm only here because of capitalism. My parents are here because of capitalism. My grandparents left their countries because they weren't in a capitalist society.
Squirrel_MurphyGOING TO COLLEGE OR EVEN THE OPPORTUNITY OF COLLEGE DOESN'T GUARANTEE ANYONE SHIT, INCLUDING PROSPERITY. Ask all my friends and family that have bachelors, and masters degrees that have tens of thousands of debt, that are asking a guy like me, without a degree, what to do, to hire them, to show them what I know.
I'm only here because of capitalism. My parents are here because of capitalism. My grandparents left their countries because they weren't in a capitalist society.
immigrants also come to Australia, Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, etc,etc. All of these countries has socialist traits and yet they are 100% capitalistic. The US ranks 10th in the world for economic freedom. The other 9 countries which rank higher than it have socialist traits. Let's get one thing right, a socialist democrat country operates within capitalism. It allows capitalism to benefit everyone instead of just a few.
THEPROPHETJoseph Smith was a con-artist and you have been cradled in a blanket of privilege your entire life.
None of that had anything to do with my response. If you have a valid reason for posting something about free college then immediately backtracking to 'omg its not actually free college though,' let me know.
"...Communism, it's a reactive formation derived from capitalism. For this reason it's less flexible and has a lower survival potential. The days of laissez-faire capitalism are completely dead, and the assumptions of nineteenth-century Communism are equally dead, because they were based on laissez-faire capitalism. While there's hardly a trace of it left in capitalist countries, Communism is still reacting to something that's been dead for over a hundred years.
And present-day Communism clings to this outmoded concepts, refusing to acknowledge the contradictions and failures of the Marxist system. Communism doesn't have any capacity to change. Capitalism is flexible, and it's changing all the time, and it's changed immeasurably. Communism apparently are still asserting that they are not changing, they're following the same Marxist principles. We don't have any principles. It's an advantage."
theBearJewIf we start taxing the 1% or whoever you want to say is the wealthy, what do you think their reaction will be? Id argue, that they would leave, leave the United States. Why would they stay? So they can work the same level of effort but get less or work harder and still get fucked by taxes? I think theyd find a way to leave and have a better life in another country.
When they leave, then who will pay? People who have worked hard their entire life are not just going to sit idle and foot the bill for people who think they're entitled to someone elses money.
Do some people need it, of course. Can many benfit from it, absolutely. But if we remove the inventive for people to get to that next level of success because they can work half as hard and make the same amount this country will go to shit.
The 1% dont "work" any more haha.
Either way quite a few of those 1%ers made their money defrauding the American people, you know like you and me. If they wanna leave good, they should never be let back into the country that gave them everything.
Plus quite a bit of that 80% new wealth isnt being reinvested into the economy. Its being sat on or spent in niche markets.
Nikolausit is inherently unfair and rigged to benefit the rich.
Can you be more specific about what you mean by this? Because I feel inclined to strongly disagree, but maybe you're thinking of something different than I am.
HP123CAPITALISM
liberal- sees it as unfair and rigged to benefit the rich
republican- sees it as an opportunity for anyone with the right mind and skill set to succeed
private industry, free enterprise. or just give all the money to the government and let them wipe your ass for you. hmmmmmm
two types of people in this world.
Except the truth is obviously somewhere between these two, at least in America. I hope your obvious bias and dislike for liberals isn't so strong that you're unable to see the issue clearly.
FunkadelicProbably in the not so distant future, automation and AI will destroy free market capitalism from a practicality stand point. It will be impossible to keep a large enough portion of the population employed with AI doing most jobs for us. At some point, redistribution of wealth to some extent will be necessary, or the world will be overrun with destitute poor people.
Basically, a completely new economic system is going to have to be invented out of necessity.
This. As computers get smarter and smarter and start taking human jobs, we'll need to figure something else out, economically. Probably the best, most realistic post in the thread so far.
byuboundNone of that had anything to do with my response. If you have a valid reason for posting something about free college then immediately backtracking to 'omg its not actually free college though,' let me know.
Yes it does. You have no idea how hard it can be to attend college
THEPROPHETLol I've already graduated. nobody owes me anything. I believe in a greater good. Something you trodgladites can't comprehend apparently.
im not saying that it wouldn't be good morally for everyone to be sent to college, I just dont think it would be fiscally responsible for our government to control higher level education and send everyone into college free of charge.
Granite_StateEither way quite a few of those 1%ers made their money defrauding the American people, you know like you and me. If they wanna leave good, they should never be let back into the country that gave them everything.
Plus quite a bit of that 80% new wealth isnt being reinvested into the economy. Its being sat on or spent in niche markets.
Turd.Fergusonim not saying that it wouldn't be good morally for everyone to be sent to college, I just dont think it would be fiscally responsible for our government to control higher level education and send everyone into college free of charge.
What do you not understand about taxes? Who said we would be sending everyone? Whos to say everyone wants to go?
Education is the key to a prosperous life for a poor uneducated person. The "Rich" prefer that education be harder to attain because this allows for a more impressionable population that is more apt to needlessly consume the media that fuels bad capitalism. You know, the type of capitalism that inspires people to become obese and heartless.
Do you know why the all seeing eye is at the top of the pyramid? Do you know what the base of the pyramid represents?
Squirrel_MurphyGOING TO COLLEGE OR EVEN THE OPPORTUNITY OF COLLEGE DOESN'T GUARANTEE ANYONE SHIT, INCLUDING PROSPERITY. Ask all my friends and family that have bachelors, and masters degrees that have tens of thousands of debt, that are asking a guy like me, without a degree, what to do, to hire them, to show them what I know.
I'm only here because of capitalism. My parents are here because of capitalism. My grandparents left their countries because they weren't in a capitalist society.
How does giving everyone the chance at an education going to destroy capitalism? If anything it will allow it to thrive by having more people able to contribute to it rather than live off of it.
College creates more business men/women.
Not everyone has smart, successful parents. Check your privilege whitey.
My parents helped me a lot through college, not gonna lie. I'd say all said and done they paid like 3/4 of the cost. I paid about 10k.
Difference is, I never had student loans. I did, but not like some people had. mine went directly to tuition. I always remember people like my roommates going out a lot--going out to dinner at places other than the uber cheap pizza joints etc. I always had a part time job on the side working more than most people in the house to pay for side bills and fun and I was always wondering how the fuck my roommates were able to eat meals like normal people meanwhile I'm working a part time job and eating mac n cheese and $1 packs of hot dogs (using loafs of bread as the bun).
Now I find out, people can get student loans and use it to pay for all sorts of things--restaurants, bars... Makes me feel a bit less bad about where I'm at now because I was broke as fuck in college while they were living the good life
CoreyTrevorNow I find out, people can get student loans and use it to pay for all sorts of things--restaurants, bars... Makes me feel a bit less bad about where I'm at now because I was broke as fuck in college while they were living the good life
I maxed out my loans and it only paid for tuition and rent. It was work or starve for me.
Mommy and daddy can cosign on personal loans from banks on top of federal loans with no penalty. Poor kids parents can't get loans and the poorer you are the more you get in federal loans.
People defensing capitalism while its currently failing us. Lol.
Pure capitalism leads to only one thing, monopolization. That is the whole basis behind capitalism. Capitalism leads to companies like Wal Mart, you know that corporation destorying small business and communities around the country.
Capitalism does benefit the rich, far more substantially than those in the middle and lower class.
You learn a lot about a country not by how they treat the haves, but how they treat the have-nots. We do a piss poor job helping the have nots. And we will never be the greatest country in the world until we change that.
Also, this country already balances socialism with capitalism, and thats how it needs to stay.
Corporate America needs more regulation. I'm sorry but it gets me really sad to drive through my home town which not so many years ago was buzzing with small business. Now there's a Wal-Mart, 3 Holiday gas stations, and some run of the mill corporate restaurants. Are things cheaper than they were before the big stores came in? Yeah a little. However, these stores have turned old main street into a goast town and have quite honestly sucked the spirit out of what use to be a nice town.
Maybe that's just how its to be, however, one can hardly say these corporate giants have done much to help the little man.
I'm not an economist so if anyone cares to weigh in I would appreciate it but I truly think that if Washington doesn't get a handle on wealth inequality we are truly in for a rough future.
CoreyTrevorMy parents helped me a lot through college, not gonna lie. I'd say all said and done they paid like 3/4 of the cost. I paid about 10k.
Difference is, I never had student loans. I did, but not like some people had. mine went directly to tuition. I always remember people like my roommates going out a lot--going out to dinner at places other than the uber cheap pizza joints etc. I always had a part time job on the side working more than most people in the house to pay for side bills and fun and I was always wondering how the fuck my roommates were able to eat meals like normal people meanwhile I'm working a part time job and eating mac n cheese and $1 packs of hot dogs (using loafs of bread as the bun).
Now I find out, people can get student loans and use it to pay for all sorts of things--restaurants, bars... Makes me feel a bit less bad about where I'm at now because I was broke as fuck in college while they were living the good life
Sick? My parents didn't pay any of my tuition. You are increadibly privelidged to be leaving school almost debt free.
I worked 2-3 jobs throughs school. My loans went to my tuition. I lived like shit for 4 years. I never had money. Im still in debt even working all through school. Not everyone abuses their loan money.
Also, for the 100th time, Bernie isnt making any school free, especially those big private institutions. His plan is perfecty feasible.
The people in power would rather a dumb, brainwashed populace than and educated one.
I've heard it mentioned that Bernie isn't just making any ol' college with a liberal arts degree "free". The free education would be spent on trade schools, equipping people for life skills. I like this, but the thing is these trade schools are already very achievable to afford, go to and pick up a solid working mans job out of school and make a decent living. Honestly, most of the successful people I know did this. Seems like you shouldn't need it to be free.
Also it could work, but what happens when it oversaturates the market with electricians, welders, etc. It's gonna throw off the balance.
So, my concern with this "free" college is on one side it will over saturate the market and everybody will hold a skilled trade, and on the other side it will pay for people to go through college and get some bunkass liberal arts degree.
I'm interested in what Bernie has to say/bring to the table, but the college argument is one that I'm skeptical on.
College doesn't teach hussle and that's the problem. Some of the most successful friends I have dropped out of college and started their own business. On the other hand, some of the biggest failures I know are sitting at home unemployed or working for their parents with their psych, english, arts.... degree
JustGoWithItI'm not an economist so if anyone cares to weigh in I would appreciate it but I truly think that if Washington doesn't get a handle on wealth inequality we are truly in for a rough future.
Economists all agree that extreme amounts of wealth inequality is bad
"At the same time, there's a growing consensus among economists of all ideological stripes that inequality is growing — in the United States and abroad — even if the usual political fault lines appear when the discussion turns to the consequences of the trend and whether new public policies are needed to address it."
The question is how to approach it, and that is what we are seeing every day. Democrats believe in more taxation of the rich, more social programs, increased governmental role, etc. while Republicans believe in tax cuts, more laissez-faire approaches (so they claim), and more private programs instead of social programs.
There is no singular remedy for it. No economist will claim to have the golden solution, the cure-all approach.
But wealth inequality is also a necessity, outside of a perfect communist society (the 6th Stage for anyone who has read Marx.)
"In 1975 Arthur Okun, an American economist, argued that societies cannot have both perfect equality and perfect efficiency, but must choose how much of one to sacrifice for the other. While most economists continue to hold that view, the recent rise in inequality has prompted a new look at its economic costs."
It drives economic growth, through risk and innovation. Without it, economies would stagnate.
However, too much of it can have disastrous effects.
"Inequality could impair growth if those with low incomes suffer poor health and low productivity as a result, or if, as evidence suggests, the poor struggle to finance investments in education. Inequality could also threaten public confidence in growth-boosting policies like free trade...More recent work suggests that inequality could lead to economic or financial instability."
TL;DR:
Wealth inequality is a necessity, but the amounts today are reaching dangerous levels that could cripple society. Unfortunately there is no "one size fits all" approach, and frankly this issue has never been tackled before, at least not at these amounts.
Agreed that the growing wealth gap is a huge global problem.
When was the last time an interstate was built? Back in the day (was it Truman? idr who) we did have social programs that got people back to work and we invested in AMERICA and our infrastructures. Now a days we can't even maintain the bridges we built, much less build any new infrastructure. Plus I've been told by my rich-ish republican aunt that the hybrid drivers are to blame because that's less tax money going to our roads. Well maybe that's the fucking problem because it seems to me the working class is the one who pays most for the roads.
I feel really socialist/liberal on many economic issues, but at the same time you need to be smart and can't just throw other people's money at an issue (hence my huge complaint about Bernie talking about free college).
Can't believe I forgot this. If anyone wants to read a good book about the possibility of the demise of capitalism, read Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy by Joseph Schumpeter. Schumpeter is a really well-known economist who is most famous for his term "creative destruction" which applies to how an entrepreneurial product can destroy long-standing monopolies (ie Uber vs. Taxis). It is an older book and deals more with theory rather than statistical models but is really interesting.
CoreyTrevorI've heard it mentioned that Bernie isn't just making any ol' college with a liberal arts degree "free". The free education would be spent on trade schools, equipping people for life skills. I like this, but the thing is these trade schools are already very achievable to afford, go to and pick up a solid working mans job out of school and make a decent living. Honestly, most of the successful people I know did this. Seems like you shouldn't need it to be free.
Also it could work, but what happens when it oversaturates the market with electricians, welders, etc. It's gonna throw off the balance.
So, my concern with this "free" college is on one side it will over saturate the market and everybody will hold a skilled trade, and on the other side it will pay for people to go through college and get some bunkass liberal arts degree.
I'm interested in what Bernie has to say/bring to the table, but the college argument is one that I'm skeptical on.
College doesn't teach hussle and that's the problem. Some of the most successful friends I have dropped out of college and started their own business. On the other hand, some of the biggest failures I know are sitting at home unemployed or working for their parents with their psych, english, arts.... degree
That's just plainly false. If you provide free college and reform trade school you're not going to saturate the market if you do it in a way that allows people to use their ability to find a trade which best fits their ability. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. If you look at the socialist democratic countries which offer free education or heavily subsidised education you can see that their figures are actually lower than the US. Lets take Australia for example, if I don't have the grades to get into a certain course I can't just buy my way into said course. Also let's not forget that for every dollar invested into education the state will see a $4-14 return on their investment.
And yes, if you get a college education you're going most likely earn more money.
S.J.WThat's just plainly false. If you provide free college and reform trade school you're not going to saturate the market if you do it in a way that allows people to use their ability to find a trade which best fits their ability. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. If you look at the socialist democratic countries which offer free education or heavily subsidised education you can see that their figures are actually lower than the US. Lets take Australia for example, if I don't have the grades to get into a certain course I can't just buy my way into said course. Also let's not forget that for every dollar invested into education the state will see a $4-14 return on their investment.
I love how Canada, which does not have free university by any means, is ahead of all the countries that have free university
theBearJewId argue, that they would leave, leave the United States. Why would they stay? So they can work the same level of effort but get less or work harder and still get fucked by taxes? I think theyd find a way to leave and have a better life in another country.
I don't disagree that they would want to leave, but I would point out to you that unless they want to move to africa or some other war-torn country... they're going to be going somewhere they pay a shit load more taxes. Even if Bernie wins in the states, basically any other first world country has high taxes and social support systems.
erikKI love how Canada, which does not have free university by any means, is ahead of all the countries that have free university
Yes because in those countries with "free" university you can't just buy your way into a degree and universities just don't accept everyone. OneNerdyKid could explain further Austria's education system. Education is a right, but it's a very highly respected privilege to be accepted into university in those countries. They also push other means of education like trade schools and apprenticeships
erikKI love how Canada, which does not have free university by any means, is ahead of all the countries that have free university
Yeah but our University also isn't cripplingly expensive, because it is subsidized by the government. Provinces differ quite a bit on this, and it changes with the degree you take. In quebec, you can get a marketing degree for about $2,500 / year of tuition.
On average, undergraduate students paid $5,959 in tuition fees in 2014/2015 compared with $5,767 a year earlier. Tuition fees rose in all but one province, Newfoundland and Labrador, where tuition fees for undergraduate and graduate students have been frozen since 2003/2004.
Elsewhere, for undergraduate students, tuition fee increases ranged from 1.0% in Alberta to 4.0% in Saskatchewan.
Undergraduates in Newfoundland and Labrador ($2,631) and Quebec ($2,743) continued to pay the lowest average tuition fees.
In comparison, undergraduate students in Ontario ($7,539) paid the highest average tuition fees in Canada, followed by students in Saskatchewan ($6,659).
We employ a more balanced approach. Its not completely government supported, but its not all financed just by the student. There are private options too - and we have this in healthcare too.
Canadian Healthcare provides the basics for survival... but things like dentists, physio, ambulance rides, crutches and many other things you need to pay for or have supplemental health insurance through work. Also, if you don't want to have the wait times commonly associated with our Health care system (big problem) you can elect to pay at private clinics.
The key is having a balanced compromise. Full-bore 6th stage marxist socialism doesn't seem to work, neither does whatever the right wing side of that is.
