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All-Mountain or Park Ski?

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DowsesWax
Posts: 33 - Karma: 37
Hey guys,

I just picked up a pair of bent chetlers (120mm underfoot) w/ fks 140s for freeride powder and I love them for deep days. When there isn't enough snow they don't really handle all that well. I have a pair of Dynastar Outland 87s I got a few years ago that I still ride but I'm looking for an upgrade as they don't seem to excel in any condition and they're quite a bit too short for me (I bought them when I was 16). I've never done much park skiing but I want to learn. I do a lot of hard charging skiing through trees/chutes/bowls at vail and other resorts in summit county. I want to be able to ski challenging terrain directionally while also be able to go in the park and start learning how to hit jumps/rails. Am I asking too much for a ski that can do both? Would I be better off just getting something like a pair of Blizzard Brahma's and taking them in the park or would a pair of twintip skis like the 92 k2 Shreditors be a good option for park/big mountain skiing?

Thanks!
Feb 16 2016 3:54PM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4197 - Karma: 10,366
Moment PB&J.

101 underfoot, kids ride it in the park all day while their dads ride the same ski all over the mountain.

Trust me.

http://www.momentskis.com/products/pbj
Feb 16 2016 7:01PM
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DowsesWax
Posts: 33 - Karma: 37
hot.pocketMoment PB&J.

101 underfoot, kids ride it in the park all day while their dads ride the same ski all over the mountain.

Trust me.

http://www.momentskis.com/products/pbj


Won't all that tail rocker make it's carving/hard snow performance pretty poor? Also since I have a 120 underfoot ski would it not make more sense to get something in the low 90s? I'm open to the PB&Js but I was under the impression that ~100 underfoot skis weren't really ideal in any condition and would be harder to learn park in.
Feb 16 2016 7:10PM
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AngryGramps
Posts: 242 - Karma: 701
check out some ~100 mm skis. a lot of dedicated park skis are getting fatter and you can find a ski that has a flex pattern that excels at both. like for instance the revision talisman or the shredditor 102 are both fantastic park ski and around 100mm under foot, not a hard chargers per say but both are around 100mm skis that do really well in the park. look for flex pattern before width
Feb 16 2016 7:59PM
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Negromancer
Posts: 1014 - Karma: 1,499
I would buy two pairs of skis because if you plan on hitting rails then you're going to dull your edges which will make charging hard sketchy.

I'd buy a cheap pair of second hand park skis, you're just learning so you don't need anything expensive, they're just going to get destroyed anyway. Then buy a dedicated pair of all mountain skis.

Or if you really want a ski for both all mtn and park I'd look at something like the ON3P Kartels, 4Frnt Devastator (may be a little wide for park), K2 Shreditors, or Line Blends.
Feb 16 2016 8:35PM
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DowsesWax
Posts: 33 - Karma: 37
The 92/102 shreditors are selling for around $350 new online. Blends go for $500+. 102 underfoot seems too soft snow / pow specific. Would a 102 shreditor still be a good hard snow / low snow ski?
Feb 16 2016 10:27PM
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AngryGramps
Posts: 242 - Karma: 701
really depends on where you are located. if hard snow means ice then the 102 may be a bit wide, but honestly the width adds stability through chop. if hard snow means chalk and thunder, then you'll be glad to have the 102. I ski in Montana mainly and rarely use anything besides my 109 mm revision bodrums, because I like the stability added by their width. I own smaller skis but find them to be a bit more jittery and more easily deflected on hard snow. do you have the ability to demo?
Feb 17 2016 1:04AM
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DowsesWax
Posts: 33 - Karma: 37
WattMoodreally depends on where you are located. if hard snow means ice then the 102 may be a bit wide, but honestly the width adds stability through chop. if hard snow means chalk and thunder, then you'll be glad to have the 102. I ski in Montana mainly and rarely use anything besides my 109 mm revision bodrums, because I like the stability added by their width. I own smaller skis but find them to be a bit more jittery and more easily deflected on hard snow. do you have the ability to demo?


Unfortunately no. I'm going to buy a pair on sale. I live in Denver and ski in summit county (Vail, Breckenridge, etc) and next winter I'll probably be located in Jackson Hole or in Denver again. Hard snow in these places is really more like western hard snow not east coast so I won't really be skiing on much ice just days where its been warm and hasn't snowed in a while. I'm also interested in the On3p Kartel as all the reviews I've read are stellar. Since I have fatties I'm thinking if I went the Kartel route probably go with the 98s.
Feb 17 2016 4:25AM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4197 - Karma: 10,366
DowsesWaxWon't all that tail rocker make it's carving/hard snow performance pretty poor? Also since I have a 120 underfoot ski would it not make more sense to get something in the low 90s? I'm open to the PB&Js but I was under the impression that ~100 underfoot skis weren't really ideal in any condition and would be harder to learn park in.


The referenced post has been removed.


Tuna said it best, skis are getting generally wider. The PB&J is very similar to the Blend.

The tip and tail rocker allows for a more playful feeling when cruising or whipping through tight trees, but you have the entire ski length there for when you really want to carve through stuff. It may seem like the ski will perform sloppy with the early rise, but it serves more to add a little bit of playfulness to an all mountain ski.

The PB&J will rip through groomers, chutes, trees, and double triple crazy blacker than black quadruple diamonds.
Feb 17 2016 11:33AM
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AngryGramps
Posts: 242 - Karma: 701
DowsesWaxUnfortunately no. I'm going to buy a pair on sale. I live in Denver and ski in summit county (Vail, Breckenridge, etc) and next winter I'll probably be located in Jackson Hole or in Denver again. Hard snow in these places is really more like western hard snow not east coast so I won't really be skiing on much ice just days where its been warm and hasn't snowed in a while. I'm also interested in the On3p Kartel as all the reviews I've read are stellar. Since I have fatties I'm thinking if I went the Kartel route probably go with the 98s.


Summit is where I grew up skiing, I've heard lots of good things about the Kartels. Hit up slopestlye in breck, those guys know whats up. super core shop that can at least get you down the right path and odds are good whoever you talk to in there has skied what your looking at...and every now and then they have some killer deals in there too.
Feb 17 2016 2:09PM
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DowsesWax
Posts: 33 - Karma: 37
I've narrowed it down to either Moment PB&J's 101 or On3p Kartel 98. It looks like the pb&js are about 70/30 all mountain park while the kartels are more 40/60 all mountain/park. Which ski do you guys think would be best for learning park while still using this ski as my everyday ski when theres
Feb 17 2016 10:21PM
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DowsesWax
Posts: 33 - Karma: 37
when theres less than 6-8 inches of fresh*
Feb 17 2016 10:24PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
DowsesWaxI've narrowed it down to either Moment PB&J's 101 or On3p Kartel 98. It looks like the pb&js are about 70/30 all mountain park while the kartels are more 40/60 all mountain/park. Which ski do you guys think would be best for learning park while still using this ski as my everyday ski when theres


Go ON3P man. I love my Kartels and the durability from ON3P is greatZ
Feb 17 2016 10:31PM
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DowsesWax
Posts: 33 - Karma: 37
.lenconGo ON3P man. I love my Kartels and the durability from ON3P is greatZ



how are they not in the park? trees/chutes/steeps.. etc
Feb 18 2016 1:02AM
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DowsesWax
Posts: 33 - Karma: 37
Also I'm 5'9 and ride a 185 bent chetler (which has a lot of rocker) do you think I should go with 176 or 181 for the kartels?
Feb 18 2016 2:07AM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
DowsesWaxhow are they not in the park? trees/chutes/steeps.. etc


Amazing. I use mine outside the park 90% of the time. They're a super fun ski
Feb 18 2016 9:16AM
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nutz.
Posts: 3150 - Karma: 6,712
DowsesWaxAlso I'm 5'9 and ride a 185 bent chetler (which has a lot of rocker) do you think I should go with 176 or 181 for the kartels?


181 probably, although the 185 chets felt short for me... and I'm only a little bit taller than you
Feb 18 2016 9:32AM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
DowsesWaxAlso I'm 5'9 and ride a 185 bent chetler (which has a lot of rocker) do you think I should go with 176 or 181 for the kartels?


I'm 5'8 and have the 176s. I have ridden the 181s before tho and I could handle them but they wouldn't be as enjoyable. The 176s are a bit taller than me.
Feb 18 2016 11:10AM
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DowsesWax
Posts: 33 - Karma: 37
no shops in my area still have them in stock so I can't go check them out. Whats the rocker profile like, do they ski short? 176 would be my exact height and 181 would be 2 inches taller than me.
Feb 18 2016 4:10PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
DowsesWaxno shops in my area still have them in stock so I can't go check them out. Whats the rocker profile like, do they ski short? 176 would be my exact height and 181 would be 2 inches taller than me.


Are you still growing?
Feb 18 2016 5:57PM
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DowsesWax
Posts: 33 - Karma: 37
.lenconAre you still growing?


No.

Sizing down from 185 to 176 on a tip/tail rockered ski seems extreme since the rocker will reduce snow contact. But what has me thinking the 176 might be the best way to go is from ON3P's FAQ, "ON3P measures our skis using a post-pressing tip-to-tail length. Most brands measure a pre-pressing flat base length, which loses length when the ski is pressed. As such, ON3P skis will run comparitively longer than most brands. To us, it just means our ski sizing runs true to size."
Feb 18 2016 6:57PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
I'd go 181. You're still growing and my Kartels are a few inches taller than me as yell and they're great. So yeah go 181 unless you ski a ton of park
Feb 18 2016 7:26PM
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Deforestation
Posts: 1606 - Karma: 3,192
.lenconI'd go 181. You're still growing and my Kartels are a few inches taller than me as yell and they're great. So yeah go 181 unless you ski a ton of park


I thin said he's not still growing.

Anyway, I also have the Kartels in a 176 and I'm 5'7" or 5'8" so they are like an inch or two taller than me. I thought they might be too much ski (I got the 106's), but they are great and I'm still growing. Anyway, OP, I think you should get the Kartel in the 181. I was looking almost exclusively at pb&j's and kartel's by the end of my search, and ended up going with the kartel's because I heard that the Moment's were inconsistent with their durability, and that seriously worried me, while ON3P's are renound for their 'bombproof-ness'

As for whether you should go 98 or 106, I know you already have a pow ski, (I'm not implying that the 106 is also a pow ski, but it's definitely more catered to soft snow than the 98) but at the same time you live out west and don't ski a whole lot of park, so I feel like you might actually have better luck with the 106's. They do pretty well in pow and carve surprisingly well, but they really excell in the crud you see often out west and I take them into the park all the time. I prefer the wider bases for rails as they offer better balance, even though they are a tad bit heavier (barely noticeable).
Feb 18 2016 8:42PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
DeforestationI thin said he's not still growing.

Anyway, I also have the Kartels in a 176 and I'm 5'7" or 5'8" so they are like an inch or two taller than me. I thought they might be too much ski (I got the 106's), but they are great and I'm still growing. Anyway, OP, I think you should get the Kartel in the 181. I was looking almost exclusively at pb&j's and kartel's by the end of my search, and ended up going with the kartel's because I heard that the Moment's were inconsistent with their durability, and that seriously worried me, while ON3P's are renound for their 'bombproof-ness'

As for whether you should go 98 or 106, I know you already have a pow ski, (I'm not implying that the 106 is also a pow ski, but it's definitely more catered to soft snow than the 98) but at the same time you live out west and don't ski a whole lot of park, so I feel like you might actually have better luck with the 106's. They do pretty well in pow and carve surprisingly well, but they really excell in the crud you see often out west and I take them into the park all the time. I prefer the wider bases for rails as they offer better balance, even though they are a tad bit heavier (barely noticeable).


Oh yeah I missed that.

But anyways op get the 181s.
Feb 18 2016 9:05PM
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DowsesWax
Posts: 33 - Karma: 37
DeforestationI thin said he's not still growing.

As for whether you should go 98 or 106, I know you already have a pow ski, (I'm not implying that the 106 is also a pow ski, but it's definitely more catered to soft snow than the 98) but at the same time you live out west and don't ski a whole lot of park, so I feel like you might actually have better luck with the 106's. They do pretty well in pow and carve surprisingly well, but they really excell in the crud you see often out west and I take them into the park all the time. I prefer the wider bases for rails as they offer better balance, even though they are a tad bit heavier (barely noticeable).


I actually called the guys at ON3P to ask what size I should get and they told me 181 which is what I ended up going with. I ordered them on skicenter which only had the 98s on sale for $450 (the guy told me this price is actually against their terms but since its a retirement sale they're not too worried) which is a steal for a brand new 2016 model. I was pretty set on a somewhat narrower mid-fat ski anyway because colorado often has dry spells where it doesn't snow in a while where the 106s probably wouldn't be too great. I think the 98s will do just fine in soft snow and it will be worth the trade off for the park/harder snow performance.

Thanks for the help guys when I created this thread I was pretty set on k2 Shreditors but I think i ended up getting a better ski for not too much more.

P.S. Mounting with Look Pivot 14s
Feb 18 2016 10:44PM
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