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So I came across this article in the WSJ the other day. For those of us who are too lazy, the article discussed how major ski resorts (Vail) are trying to target a more wealthy demographic by offering a collection of expensive services that basically do everything for guests aside from the actual skiing. The reason for this is twofold. The first is probably to increase margins and bottom line. The second part is because youth participation in skiing and boarding is starting to drop off. Personally, I think that Vail has done a decent job of accommodating to skiers of all income levels in the past. I understand that a cheeseburger at an on mountain restaurant may cost $20 but with a little planning ahead it really isn't impossible to make things work. Do you guys think that the move to target wealthier consumers is causing resorts to stray away from those actually love the sport for what it is? Also do you guys really think that youth participation in skiing is dropping off?
Most big name mountains don't care who shows up, as long as people show up and give them money. All they see are the dollar signs, as most resorts are owned by bigger corporations. The reason they charge $20 for a burger and $120 for a day pass is because people will pay it! Until we as a whole stop paying them absurd prices for these things, nothing will charge.
Also I believe skiers are becoming spoiled. A lot of us want the fastest lifts, nicest lodges and longest seasons. All of that is expensive as hell especially when you factor in snow making. That money has to come from somewhere.
I think that the higher prices are driving away people who can't really afford it. The resorts aren't driving away from the more hardcore ski bums, but it causes the ski bums to find cheaper places. They just want more money. I believe that less kids are getting into winter sports. Kids keep getting less motivated, lazier, and fatter.
I think the main demographic of people that I see not skiing is your like typical working guy that maybe grew up knowing how to ski but never became a hardcore skier. Sure they went when it was 20 bucks and their parents were driving them but now that its 75 bucks they are just staying home or switching to a cheaper hobby.
I actually think it is cheaper. Many moons ago pre-dawn of the Epic Pass I was working for Vail or brethren trying anything to get a pass (for free) with a job for @1000-1400. Now it is @600ish if you can deal with a few blackout dates and want to go out and ski Afton Alps for God's sake and then hit whatever combination of Western resorts you want.
Nobody is holding a gun to your head to have new equipment, eat a $13 hamburger or ski in a Descente snowsuit.
Bottom line, you can live in your van on Natl forest land, live on Nature Valley granola bars and ski close to 200 days a year on some version of the Epic Pass for $400-800.
Out East maybe they are trying to get you by the short hairs, but as bad as the Vail Monster is...it is still friendly and you can offer it a cookie and it won't eat you.
I'm sure Vail has their eye on a few Eastern gems. And by gems I don't mean Liberty Mtn.
DBack1321Also I believe skiers are becoming spoiled. A lot of us want the fastest lifts, nicest lodges and longest seasons. All of that is expensive as hell especially when you factor in snow making. That money has to come from somewhere.
DBack1321Most big name mountains don't care who shows up, as long as people show up and give them money. All they see are the dollar signs, as most resorts are owned by bigger corporations. The reason they charge $20 for a burger and $120 for a day pass is because people will pay it! Until we as a whole stop paying them absurd prices for these things, nothing will charge.
Also I believe skiers are becoming spoiled. A lot of us want the fastest lifts, nicest lodges and longest seasons. All of that is expensive as hell especially when you factor in snow making. That money has to come from somewhere.
Yeah we may becoming spoiled in that we are benefitting from all of the capital improvements but I didn't get to vote on whether I wanted Boyne to buy all the independently owned mountains up and start investing in them and increase the ticket prices by double. The lack of competition has eliminated any incentive to stay open late season, the pass holders have already paid their money so once the day pass sales fall off fuck those guys because we can.
CaseyYeah we may becoming spoiled in that we are benefitting from all of the capital improvements but I didn't get to vote on whether I wanted Boyne to buy all the independently owned mountains up and start investing in them and increase the ticket prices by double. The lack of competition has eliminated any incentive to stay open late season, the pass holders have already paid their money so once the day pass sales fall off fuck those guys because we can.
I totally get what you're saying, but that's not exclusive to the ski world. It's happening in many indusies and is a by product of a free market.
I don't know what I'm going to do once I can't buy student season passes or 18-26 ones anymore. I hope I can live in the Rockies where passes are somewhat affordable. I can't afford this $1200 bullshit they have back East. It's either that or $90 a day for a ticket. I guess I'm going to have to do more AT haha.
Considering how many ski areas are 1 or 2 bad winters away from closing the doors, it surprises me how people look at it with an "Omg! They're trying to make money off of us!".
It's a business. if they don't make money, and they start going into debt, it doesn't end well. Especially the last few years, seems like a bunch of places were closing down.
Now I understand that OP is talking about expensive ski and stay packages, things like that. Honestly anything that keeps the money flowing in. Is vail resorts making a bunch of money? Probably, but at least they're stable.
There are a lot of smaller places that if they had the location and the capitol to do so, would do the same thing.
Look at some of the tiny ski areas hosting weddings, sometimes fairly classy ones. Things like that. Are they trying to cater to the rich? Not necessarily, but if that pays the bills then that's what they'll do.
Most of vail resorts aren't in an area where people are living cheap. They aren't the mountain 2 miles down the road from the town where houses range from 75-125k for a 4br and there are plenty of other options for ski areas if you go a bit further anyway.
The living in the region is expensive. Also a lot of people are flying in or driving long distances to go there.
It's just hard to compare places like vail, to the tiny dirt cheap ski areas in the northeast.
I wouldn't really go skiing for a $160 ticket, but I wouldn't really for anything $100 plus. I just get a season pass, trade tickets with friends, or work at a mountain.
Mt.AssSo I came across this article in the WSJ the other day. For those of us who are too lazy, the article discussed how major ski resorts (Vail) are trying to target a more wealthy demographic by offering a collection of expensive services that basically do everything for guests aside from the actual skiing. The reason for this is twofold. The first is probably to increase margins and bottom line. The second part is because youth participation in skiing and boarding is starting to drop off. Personally, I think that Vail has done a decent job of accommodating to skiers of all income levels in the past. I understand that a cheeseburger at an on mountain restaurant may cost $20 but with a little planning ahead it really isn't impossible to make things work. Do you guys think that the move to target wealthier consumers is causing resorts to stray away from those actually love the sport for what it is? Also do you guys really think that youth participation in skiing is dropping off?
Big Mountain Resorts such as Vail, Jackson Hole, Whistler, ... Do target the wealthier population because itself is a sport that requires money. They really don't care who show up but targeting weathier people will make them more money because, by example, if a burger on top of the hill costs 20 bucks, a wealthier person will be more keen on spending 20 dollars, with an add of desert and whatnot. But then others less wealthy would rather go to cheaper hotels, bring their own food, spend less money. It's all about money but indeed, if Big Mountain Resorts keep doing that a very few percentage of the people skiing with actually enjoy the sport for what it actually is... I think if it really changes exponentially, the sport COULD (not will) start dying down. That's my thoughts but then again my thoughts are just opinions.
With the youth drop-off, I think it varies with areas and regions. Places with access to skiing will still have a good number of people skiing due the their families involvement and access as well. Most families that do live in mtn towns have the money to live there and are able to ski. If anything, places like Park City have seen an influx of kids on the freeride teams and programs. Im starting to coach this winter and our development team needs a ton of help due to the amount of young families with groms that just moved out west or from California. I also see a ton of racer kids switching over from their race programs because they are "bored". There are still tons of kids in certain areas wanting to ski, but of course they come from backgrounds that allow them to do so.
Park city mtn resort however does have a ski school program aimed at lower-class/underprivileged children which I think would be a blast to help out with and would benefit a lot of places. We need to preserve small mtns however so that more young families and those well off can get their feet wet with the sport, I think the shock value of vails prices thwarts people away no doubt, regardless of how good the riding or ski schools maybe.
dustygoldflakesEverything is getting too expensive my friend. The cost of living in general.
Agreed^ it's an inherent atrocity just saying that there is a cost to live. Nonetheless, the inflation in the ski market is insane, it's in part what is driving the rise of urban/street skiing.
Skiing is pretty cheap compared to many action sports.
Consider mountain biking, motocross, windsurfing, kiteboarding, paragliding,... all much more expensive than skiing.
I paid $750 for the regular epic pass and don't need any new gear this year. I end up spending at least $1000-2000 a year on kiteboarding gear since it's much more fragile and wears out faster.
A big problem though is that skiing is not accessible to many people. I moved to Park City, otherwise I would have to pay thousands for a ski trip from FL. I would say that is different than a hobby or a sport though; that's a vacation. As a hobby or a regular recreation, skiing isn't too bad.
dyyylanSkiing is pretty cheap compared to many action sports.
Consider mountain biking, motocross, windsurfing, kiteboarding, paragliding,... all much more expensive than skiing.
I paid $750 for the regular epic pass and don't need any new gear this year. I end up spending at least $1000-2000 a year on kiteboarding gear since it's much more fragile and wears out faster.
A big problem though is that skiing is not accessible to many people. I moved to Park City, otherwise I would have to pay thousands for a ski trip from FL. I would say that is different than a hobby or a sport though; that's a vacation. As a hobby or a regular recreation, skiing isn't too bad.
That's true man. I was going to get into skydiving last summer and I did all of the research and shit. Long story short for all of the gear, lessons, and certification it was about 7 grand if you bought used equipment. Not to mention 25-40 dollars for a single jump after all of that.
Resorts seem to inflate faster than local hills, so I would disagree with that. Inflation definitely plays a role but in Canada at least the average inflation rate for the year is around 1-2% and has been that way for a while, but some hills jack their prices by ~4% a year. My example is Blue mountain, they were $59 for a full day in 2013 and now they are $66 (I think that comes out to roughly 5% a year) and this trend really isn't that recent from my observations.
It is an expensive hobby, and yea they do charge a ton. But like what's been said running a resort costs a shit ton. But there's a solution:
Go halvsies on a van with a buddy, work your ass off during summers to pay for gas and a season pass, you'll only need new gear every couple seasons and even then you can just use older stuff, when winter rolls around find a nice parking lot closed to your hill, there you go. Sounds like a pretty damn nice life to me.
Lol over $320 to ski a mountain with 1 real park and 10 "trails" and a 260 ft vertical and they opened in January last year when the resort an hour away opened in thanksgiving. OHIO IS AWFUL. Atleast the park gets good vibes and we get to hit a 60 foot jump for the last 3 weeks of the season which is the beginning of march.
We're living in the times of $100 lift tickets. I don't mind paying a fair price to a resort, but if they are trying to gouge, I go out of my way not to support them. I suggest, set-up urban, build booters, clip tickets, tailgate in the parking lot and/or hit up back country (if you have it).
As someone who has previously been to some of these mountains that do evyerthing for you...I can say if you have the money its fantastic. Truly awesome.
That being said...skiing is a rich persons sport and never will change. You need a car ( at a minimum), house, lift tickets, food, etc just to do it a lot. If I ran a mountain, all I would target would be the upper class.
RoyWe're living in the times of $100 lift tickets. I don't mind paying a fair price to a resort, but if they are trying to gouge, I go out of my way not to support them. I suggest, set-up urban, build booters, clip tickets, tailgate in the parking lot and/or hit up back country (if you have it).
But if you're a skier you're not paying $100 for a lift ticket, you're getting a pass for a much more reasonable price.
I think last year it worked out to about $15 a day for me to ski PCMR/Canyons, which also have $100+ day passes.
If you're paying the day pass price, then you're not skiing as a sport, you're skiing on vacation. Vacations are expensive.
Here in Italy skiing is cheaper than in your resorts (circa 48€ per day during Christmas period), but yeah, every year it's more expensive. Three years ago Dolomiti Superski (with that you can ski in every Dolomiti resort, best mountains in the world imo) just cost 500€ in pre-sale... 500€ for the whole season isn't that bad... Now every single resort with decent slope and nice park asks for 450€ at least and that Superski costs 690€ (we're always talking about pre-sale). 200€ in three years is a pretty big price increase in my opinion... So yes, I'm lucky skiing in Italy isn't expensive like in America, but I'm still a student, I'll get a real work in 4 years, so fuck, it's still pretty damn expensive
dyyylanBut if you're a skier you're not paying $100 for a lift ticket, you're getting a pass for a much more reasonable price.
I think last year it worked out to about $15 a day for me to ski PCMR/Canyons, which also have $100+ day passes.
If you're paying the day pass price, then you're not skiing as a sport, you're skiing on vacation. Vacations are expensive.
I ski 100 is days a year, all over Western Canada. About 60 of those days is on resort. I have a pass for park, but there are 8 resorts in my vicinity. My point was, don't support resorts that gouge. Instead of paying $100 for a pass and another $25 for burger and a beer, I'm saying go full ski bum, clip a pass for free and spend $10 grilling your own burger and drink a few beers in the parking lot.
The passes are reasonably priced (Collective, Epic Pass). The individual tickets are way too much, seriously $150 for a walkup?
So there's nothing really in between, if you are an occasional skier at your local resort or visiting say, Breck for a long weekend and don't have a pass, it's gonna run a ton of money. The passes are like frequent flier programs, you get 'trapped' in a certain group of resorts (or airlines), but do pay for themselves after a small number of days (~4-6 days, guesstimating).
The pricing structure in Europe is more reasonable, you'll rarely even hit $70 USD for a day pass, but if you stray off-piste it's your business if you run into trouble. The US resorts have all this additional liability rolled into the lift ticket prices.
CO and CA are pretty expensive. UT seems to be very good value for what you get, and BC is pretty good as well given the exchange rate. Europe is also good value at the moment given the weak Euro.
For the cheaper stuff, go to central / eastern Europe. The Middle East is also an interesting skiing / cultural experience.
Yes the cost of skiing is fucked up and working in a shop seeing first hand how much people will spend on setups they only ride 3-5 times a year here on the east coast is ridiculous not to mention a seven springs season pass is around $500 if im not mistaken. On the flip side though like other people have said skiing compared to other action sports is relatively cheap. I know people with mountain bikes that cost upwards of $5000, a quality surfboard is atleast $500 hell even a decent longboard can become pretty pricey for a piece of bamboo some metal and urethane.It all comes down to is it a priority, is skiing good for your sanity? if so then fuck it, you will find cheap ways to ski if your smart and if you love it you will hand your soul over on a silver platter to ride. The feeling of flying down the mountain dipping your body into a carve is priceless in my opinion.
Only advantage of living on the East Coast, I suppose. When I lived/grew up in PA, there were two mountains both within 30 minutes driving of my parent's house. I worked at Blue Mountain on the weekends in high school/college to get a free pass there. Then when Camelback passes went on sale, I'd scoop one of those up for about $300. Gave some nice options and two mountains to work with.
Fast forward to now, I'm an active duty Service member and only get about 10-15 days a year in (pitiful, I know but it's only temporary for another year). I just picked up a 6 day lift for $115 out the door. Then any other days I just scalp one at a huge discount from some of the patrollers I know there.
I guess what I'm getting at here (and what most of the other posters have pointed to) is that there are plenty of workarounds to ski every single day (occupation permitting) at a relatively low cost. After four years of saving, you'll find me in a van somewhere in the Rockies, continuing to get the maximum number of days out while on a budget.
Mountains aren't making any money off of season pass holders. After 10 days of skiing at the mountain I bought a pass at, it was free. I brought my own food and a Nalgene. I plan on using the same strategy next winter when I'm back to enjoying the civilian life.
Yeah! We should accept the fact that everything is expensive today. And as long as we hate the fact that money reigns in this era. We have to live with it as long as we breath.
