It looks like you are using an ad blocker. That's okay. Who doesn't? But without advertising revenue, we can't keep making this site awesome. Click the link below for instructions on disabling adblock.
Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post.
Register to become a member today!
I know a ton of threads have been made on this, but how do you guys deal with mental illnesses? I have depression, and some days it feels like I can't even function. What is your take on them?
S.J.WIf you're going to to look at the harmful effects of acid and DMT. No, they're not hard drugs at all. Cigarettes and beer are more harmful than acid and DMT. If you're going to look at the psychological effects like addiction than cigarettes and beer are still more harmful. DMT, acid, shrooms are pretty much harmless, unless you get a bad trip.
So is there any reputable institution that can back this data up with actual studies, or is medicalmarijuana.org the only one? Do they have a research paper that shows how this data was collected?
I can't really even interpret this graph, like what does the score even relate to? This graph confuses me more than anything else.
S.J.WIts a pretty well known fact that antidepressants are a placebo for the most part. It's been documented over and over again. Even if something doesn't medically work, doesn't mean it doesn't have results. Placebos still trick the brain into thinking you're getting better. Do you really think the doctor who prescribed this monster spray thought monsters are actually real and it will actually work??? And what's the name of your doctor?
I don't know where you get your information from, I like your language though, "for the most part" talk to a doctor in person because you don't know what you're talking about antidepressants work for a number of reasons not only with depression but brintellix is also been shown to help with memory regeneration. There are a host of positive medical effects that are not placebo and can be chemically documented in the brain.
If what you're saying is true why wouldn't pharmaceutical companies save money and just make sugar pills if antidepressants are placebos and don't actually work?
S.J.WIts a pretty well known fact that antidepressants are a placebo for the most part. It's been documented over and over again. Even if something doesn't medically work, doesn't mean it doesn't have results. Placebos still trick the brain into thinking you're getting better. Do you really think the doctor who prescribed this monster spray thought monsters are actually real and it will actually work??? And what's the name of your doctor?
For all I know that could have been made with the label maker, why would you need a doctor to prescribe monster spray.
Your argument is now antidepressants are the equivalent to monster spray. It's very clear you just don't know what you're talking about. Go talk to a doctor next time you have an appointment about this I guarantee you they will disagree with you.
nocturnalFor all I know that could have been made with the label maker, why would you need a doctor to prescribe monster spray.
Your argument is now antidepressants are the equivalent to monster spray. It's very clear you just don't know what you're talking about. Go talk to a doctor next time you have an appointment about this I guarantee you they will disagree with you.
I gladly will talk to my doctor about the ongoing debate about whether or not antidepressants are placebos or not. And if you actually read the research it finds about 25% is due to the drug, 25% is due to the patient naturally getting better, and 50% is a placebo.
Hahaha, love how you put words in my mouth. I was just giving you an example of how placebos help. Also 10/10 for saying who your doctor was. Maybe because he doesn't actually exist???
S.J.WI gladly will talk to my doctor about the ongoing debate about whether or not antidepressants are placebos or not. And if you actually read the research it finds about 25% is due to the drug, 25% is due to the patient naturally getting better, and 50% is a placebo.
Hahaha, love how you put words in my mouth. I was just giving you an example of how placebos help. Also 10/10 for saying who your doctor was. Maybe because he doesn't actually exist???
I know your numbers are fake because it wouldn't round off to such an easy percentage. And even if your percentage was true, which is not you just contradicted your own words in your post that a percentage of the drug Works. Also that's a very surprising coincidence that after you take antidepressants you get 25% "naturally better."
And finally I can very easily post of the name of any Doctor that is well versed in this field and have seen firsthand the effects of antidepressants working, but I'm not going to. I could just google the name of a doctor and post it, wouldn't be very hard, and wouldn't prove a thing to my argument that antidepressants work. Whether you believe it's 25% or not.
nocturnalHey I'm not the one who thinks prescription medication doesn't actually work, and get my medical knowledge from the Huffington Post or the cchr.
I think you both are partially right.
Would you agree that Tylenol doesn't actually treat a viral infection? Becuase
It doesn't. Your body fights virsus's, but tylenol does ease the symptoms.
That's how anti depressants and other meds work. They work but they don't fix things.
Would you agree that Tylenol doesn't actually treat a viral infection? Becuase
It doesn't. Your body fights virsus's, but tylenol does ease the symptoms.
That's how anti depressants and other meds work. They work but they don't fix things.
No because antidepressant change the chemicals in your brain so its nothing like Tylenol, and the study I assume he keeps referring to the very limited previously published studies only done on selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and an older tricyclics. It was then taken and blown out of context by the media, and now we have people who don't know what they're talking about parading around saying antidepressants and other psychotic medication doesn't work.
nocturnalNo because antidepressant change the chemicals in your brain so its nothing like Tylenol, and the study I assume he keeps referring to the very limited previously published studies only done on selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and an older tricyclics. It was then taken and blown out of context by the media, and now we have people who don't know what they're talking about parading around saying antidepressants and other psychotic medication doesn't work.
I'm in no position to argue the science behind it haha.
From experience, yes, they make you feel better. They "work." You're "happier." They balance chemical imbalances and all that but it's kind of artificial. Once you stop taking them it's like nothing ever changed and you're back to where you started. The shit that bothered you before still bothers you. You still have the same negative outlook and all that. In my opinion the only way to get through something like that is to come to terms with it and accept it without meds. Just cause once you're off of them shit kinda hits the fan again.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't know the science behind it and you may be 100% right. They just felt like a temporary fix to me and didn't help too much in the long run.
MinggI'm in no position to argue the science behind it haha.
From experience, yes, they make you feel better. They "work." You're "happier." They balance chemical imbalances and all that but it's kind of artificial. Once you stop taking them it's like nothing ever changed and you're back to where you started. The shit that bothered you before still bothers you. You still have the same negative outlook and all that. In my opinion the only way to get through something like that is to come to terms with it and accept it without meds. Just cause once you're off of them shit kinda hits the fan again.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't know the science behind it and you may be 100% right. They just felt like a temporary fix to me and didn't help too much in the long run.
Some people get depressed because of events other people just get clinically depressed which is different.
CONAIR_BUSCEMINevertheless, if you are suffering from depression, fear based phobias, GAD, situational anxiety, etc. probably stay away from psychedelics and start off with high dosages of L-theanine, Ashwagandha, Lysine, Inositol, Rhodiola Rosea, etc. Something that is safe and effective. Figure out how you experience these disorders. For example, what triggers them, is it fear based because of negative thought loops. If that’s that case try CBT.
Figurem out if it is a dopamine, serotonin or GABA problem. Increased serotonin if your disorder is because of downregulated GABA receptors in specific areas of your brain can exasperate the problems. I know I’m being vague, just figure out what your deficient in and start from there.
OK fine I'll bite.
Pop quiz. Safe and effective is....
a.) FDA approved for the treatment of depression, studied in millions of people with a very minimal and known side effect profile. Shown to be more effective than placebo (as I discussed in the last post) and known to create remission in 2/3 of depressed patients without additional intervention (e.g. no therapy, no comprehensive life overhaul)
b.) a shitload of random amino acids, herbs, and ayurvedic meds - all of which have the same potential for adverse reactions that pharmaceuticals do - that have never been shown to have any efficacy in depression. Furthermore, they are not proactively regulated by anyone, so you may or may not actually get the active ingredient you think your getting. (though I'll grant you that the cognitive behavioral therapy recommendation is legit)
c.) fuck it all and trip balls for a few days and hope new understanding of reality will whatever fix your psycho-social-neuro-hormonal problems are driving your depression.
I mean, I get that it's cool that hallucinogens have some potential (that has not been replicated in 'thousands' of studies - in fact it has only been tested in small 'proof-of-concept' type studies that do not compare it to current standard of care - and only in cases of refractory depression, and those with comorbid PTSD) to treat depression. And I'll grant you that every person's experience is different. But use your heads - if you were depressed would you really want an experimental treatment -unknown if it works at all, unknown what dosage or treatment regime would be effective, unknown what side effects or adverse reactions it might cause- as your first shot, when good safe options exist? It would literally be medical malpractice for someone who knows what they're talking about to prescribe that. If you want to try shrooms, try shrooms - but don't do as a treatment for depression.
No, science / western medicine doesn't have the answer to everything and it never will. However, it does have answers to some things, and randomized controlled trials demonstrating efficacy and safety is not equivalent to some anecdotes and a few preliminary studies.
Op I'm not sure if you are still following this thread but I will give you some advice with what helped me. I personally was very much against taking any kind of medication, and luckily I was able to find a psychologist that was able to be flexible with that treatment style. The path I took was cognitive therapy, essentially the idea is to change the way you think. Overtime you start to think in logical errors i.e."this always happens to me" or "no one cares about me" obviously there are several different type of logical errors these are both examples of exaggeration or thinking in extremes. What I would recommend doing is finding a counselor who will work wih you in this type of therapy, and if you feel like using medications most will work wih you in that as well as cognitive therapy. However all the research I have done shows that medication can help in the short term but is not a long term solution, so you have to be prepared to put a lot of work in, it's not easy to change the way you think especially when it's become a habit for a long time but it is definitely do able. there is a book that I used to help me understand the idea better it is "Feeling Good" by David D Burns, and I suggest you find a counselor that is familiar with this book and can help you with it. If you have any questions feel free to pm me, and I hope my post is easily understandable.
_Ryan_A good example of something that science isn't able to break down and understand is raw conciousness... It is a complete mystery and that is a fact.
If you aren't denying there are medical benefits to mushrooms then why is it "absolutely bogus" to consider that mushrooms may be an effective alternative to these illnesses. ESPECIALLY when there are thousands upon thousands of both primary and secondary research cases documenting the effective treatment of depression and anxiety. Not to mention the fact that you are speaking to people who at one time were severely depressed or crippled by anxiety and now have more confidence and positivity than they have ever had... You cannot denounce first hand experience, it fucking happened. Regardless of wether it will work for everyone or not, it works and is proven to have that potential simply based on all the first had research out there.
I laugh when you talk about "depression is incurable" "chemical imbalance", scientifically this may be the case... this is a physical way of looking at it.
good day sir.
1. The difference between consciousness and this is the fact that scientists can observe/measure the reactions that occur when chemicals are introduced to the body. There is science that can be applied to this, it is irrefutable. MRI machines can map out how the brain reactions to psilocybin.
2. There is little to no primary research in a CLINICAL study where the effects of mushrooms can be be observed for their medical benefits. First hand experience is not clinical research. You are not comparing apples to apples. Anyone who has ever done a lab test can tell you that effective studies control variables. No singular firsthand experience will ever be identical or even remotely similar to another.
3. There is no other way to look at depression. Depression is VERY different from general unhappiness. Minor or moderate depression may be a result of general unhappiness, but severe depression is not.
4. Look at CONAIR's post below, he has highlighted a few of the potential downsides to it. For a medication to be considered a treatment option the treatment outcome needs to outweigh the potential side effects.
CONAIR_BUSCEMIIt’s the chemical within the mushroom or toadstool that is psychoactive. Psilocybin, which converts to psilocin in the liver is safer than SSRI’s and Benzo’s, longterm if taken in the controlled dose/bodyweight ratio. This should be regulated and capsulized, so those who do suffer from fear based phobias and cluster headaches can benefit without having to be unsure about its quality.
"Associated Press July 1, 2008 -- Scientists reported Tuesday that when they surveyed volunteers 14 months after they took a psychedelic drug as part of a research project, most said they were still feeling and behaving better because of the experience."
However, even in the controlled setting of the laboratory, nearly a third of participants felt significant fear under the effects of the drug. Without proper supervision, someone could be harmed, researchers said.
Hence, the reason why could have been banned. Nevertheless, psilocybin is less harmful to a persons psyche and internals than alcohol.
With further research, psilocybin may prove useful in helping to treat alcoholism and drug dependence, and in aiding seriously ill patients as they deal with psychological distress, said study lead author Roland Griffiths of Johns Hopkins.
Psilocybin in high dosages can induce a defragmentation of identity, a rebooting of internalized culture and a temporary but effective destruction of the ego. The experience is more 'real' than reality itself, which is confirmed by fMRI scans. Hence, possibly another reason why it is banned.
This is what I was getting at when I was asking everyone about the side-effects. The potential downsides are HUGE for anyone battling a mental illness. I have always recognized the potential benefits of mushrooms, but really question if the risk is worth it for a majority of patients.
A point of note, it is quite obvious alcohol would be worse for a persons psyche than psilocybin, it is a depressant.
Pop quiz. Safe and effective is....
a.) FDA approved for the treatment of depression, studied in millions of people with a very minimal and known side effect profile. Shown to be more effective than placebo (as I discussed in the last post) and known to create remission in 2/3 of depressed patients without additional intervention (e.g. no therapy, no comprehensive life overhaul)
b.) a shitload of random amino acids, herbs, and ayurvedic meds - all of which have the same potential for adverse reactions that pharmaceuticals do - that have never been shown to have any efficacy in depression. Furthermore, they are not proactively regulated by anyone, so you may or may not actually get the active ingredient you think your getting. (though I'll grant you that the cognitive behavioral therapy recommendation is legit)
c.) fuck it all and trip balls for a few days and hope new understanding of reality will whatever fix your psycho-social-neuro-hormonal problems are driving your depression.
I mean, I get that it's cool that hallucinogens have some potential (that has not been replicated in 'thousands' of studies - in fact it has only been tested in small 'proof-of-concept' type studies that do not compare it to current standard of care - and only in cases of refractory depression, and those with comorbid PTSD) to treat depression. And I'll grant you that every person's experience is different. But use your heads - if you were depressed would you really want an experimental treatment -unknown if it works at all, unknown what dosage or treatment regime would be effective, unknown what side effects or adverse reactions it might cause- as your first shot, when good safe options exist? It would literally be medical malpractice for someone who knows what they're talking about to prescribe that. If you want to try shrooms, try shrooms - but don't do as a treatment for depression.
No, science / western medicine doesn't have the answer to everything and it never will. However, it does have answers to some things, and randomized controlled trials demonstrating efficacy and safety is not equivalent to some anecdotes and a few preliminary studies.
nocturnalI know your numbers are fake because it wouldn't round off to such an easy percentage. And even if your percentage was true, which is not you just contradicted your own words in your post that a percentage of the drug Works. Also that's a very surprising coincidence that after you take antidepressants you get 25% "naturally better."
And finally I can very easily post of the name of any Doctor that is well versed in this field and have seen firsthand the effects of antidepressants working, but I'm not going to. I could just google the name of a doctor and post it, wouldn't be very hard, and wouldn't prove a thing to my argument that antidepressants work. Whether you believe it's 25% or not.
Okay well you sure an ignorant little cunt aren't ya. Anyways. Dr Irving used the freedom of information act to gain access to all of the studies done. And he found that people wild mild to moderate depression the anti depressents were mostly a placebo. It wasn't one study. And he was from Harvard if that makes a difference???
And a meta data analysis found that anti depresents only actually make up around 25% of healing.
And 10/10 for giving the name of your doctor who apparently doesn't take donations but you can't remember his name. You make so much shit up just to prove a point... I'm done with this. I've presented my argument, I've presented my sources. You haven't even given one source, and you've made up your own anecdotal experiences. So goodbye Felicia. Try not to think to hard today. You may learn something...
S.J.WOkay well you sure an ignorant little cunt aren't ya. Anyways. Dr Irving used the freedom of information act to gain access to all of the studies done. And he found that people wild mild to moderate depression the anti depressents were mostly a placebo. It wasn't one study. And he was from Harvard if that makes a difference???
And a meta data analysis found that anti depresents only actually make up around 25% of healing.
And 10/10 for giving the name of your doctor who apparently doesn't take donations but you can't remember his name. You make so much shit up just to prove a point... I'm done with this. I've presented my argument, I've presented my sources. You haven't even given one source, and you've made up your own anecdotal experiences. So goodbye Felicia. Try not to think to hard today. You may learn something...
So let's break this down you posted up a study that antidepressants ( I guess we can argue on what percent of those actually work but that's a conversation for another time.) work so thank you for proving my point on that. Yes doctors do prescribe placebos, you know how many patience come in with medical problems that are not an actual problem. So they wrote it to shut them up, we're not talking about that however we're talking about the serious condition of depression.
Also fine you want the name of a few doctors I know that don't take donations from pharmaceutical companies Dr Cohen Dr Monks. Happy no idea what that proves? Finally all doctors in the usa have take something called the Hippocratic oath, and yes there are some corrupt Doctors out there that break the law and go to jail. But I don't know why you're acting like it's the majority of physicians most of them up hold their ethical standards and do their best in any situation to help people not hurt them because of that oath.
.MASSHOLE.1. The difference between consciousness and this is the fact that scientists can observe/measure the reactions that occur when chemicals are introduced to the body. There is science that can be applied to this, it is irrefutable. MRI machines can map out how the brain reactions to psilocybin.
2. There is little to no primary research in a CLINICAL study where the effects of mushrooms can be be observed for their medical benefits. First hand experience is not clinical research. You are not comparing apples to apples. Anyone who has ever done a lab test can tell you that effective studies control variables. No singular firsthand experience will ever be identical or even remotely similar to another.
3. There is no other way to look at depression. Depression is VERY different from general unhappiness. Minor or moderate depression may be a result of general unhappiness, but severe depression is not.
4. Look at CONAIR's post below, he has highlighted a few of the potential downsides to it. For a medication to be considered a treatment option the treatment outcome needs to outweigh the potential side effects.
This is what I was getting at when I was asking everyone about the side-effects. The potential downsides are HUGE for anyone battling a mental illness. I have always recognized the potential benefits of mushrooms, but really question if the risk is worth it for a majority of patients.
A point of note, it is quite obvious alcohol would be worse for a persons psyche than psilocybin, it is a depressant.
There are no clinical studies because they are not legally permitted, so yes you are correct... I think we are just using two very different lines of thought here and i don't think either is false.
My experience with what is going on in today's world shows me that we are at a critical point in human evolution and consciousness. The planet is dying, seriously fucking dying... And nobody gives enough of a shit to do something. I think i feel inclined to share the mushrooms because they deliver much more than just a treatment for anxiety and depression, the give you back your feelings. You FEEL the earth hurting, you can tell that this is all coming to an end if we don't change something. So specifically treating depression, yes anti depressants will do it for a number of people. Its the level of profound understanding and love that comes out of a mushroom experience absolutely destroys any other medication in comparison.
Let us keep in mind that depression is something caused by humans living in an economically driven society. Depression doesn't exist in the amazon (maybe now with oil companies destroying it), it is simply non existent. And i believe that thousands of years ago this was also true.
I've slightly stayed away from the topic at hand I am aware... To me, mushrooms were a risk, i didn't know how i would come out. Now i know that mushrooms are worth the risk, i think that if you aren't mentally ill and haven't tried mushrooms with a goal of learning then you should definitely go do that. You will see how little harm comes from these things, you will feel the deep revitalization. It's all about how one goes into the experience and with how much knowledge. This is why i emphasize that anyone who is slightly interested should start watching videos and reading, you will most likely be more interested.
This will be my final post on this thread, hope that my post has sparked some interest in people. OP good luck with your battle, you have the power to be free of the terrible feelings.
For anybody interested I'm gonna leave this, it's one of the best videos I've watched in a long time. Keep in mind this is regarding ayahuasca not mushrooms, aya is much more intense, i have yet to use it.
The lungs of our planet are being ripped apart, help make a change.
S.J.WIts a pretty well known fact that antidepressants are a placebo for the most part. It's been documented over and over again. Even if something doesn't medically work, doesn't mean it doesn't have results. Placebos still trick the brain into thinking you're getting better. Do you really think the doctor who prescribed this monster spray thought monsters are actually real and it will actually work??? And what's the name of your doctor?
If it were a well known fact then anti-depressants wouldn't be a placebo then would it? I don't know where you get your information from but I would be interested to see the research that shows that anti-depressants are a placebo, because this is the first I'm hearing of this.
I don't know what that monster spray is, but I don't think you can compare it to an SSRI.
AgitatedHiatusI really didn't think this thread would get out of control. I was just looking at how you guys cope with things.
Ha, I was thinking the same thing! People will take advantage anything and everything to argue over.
I am a lot better now than I was a year and a half ago. I attribute that mostly to my change in living situations and new found hobbies eg. skiing. I guess at that time I didn't really know how to deal with it and therefor turned to self harming which didn't turn out good. I have always had a more reserved personality than most which has really set me apart from most of the crowed. And as of now, not having the ski season started yet I can get a bit depressed as I don't really have much to do aside from school work. Come winter I will be able to keep myself busy which helps a lot.
Have you ever sought any professional help? I've known people that it has helped a lot and others that it hasn't. I personally never really stuck with anyone therapist for very long so I cant say it has been the most helpful but I'm sure it would be if I was to just stick with the same person.
You are welcome to PM whenever if you want to talk.
I used to be depressed, Im just responding to let you know that things get worse before they get better. But they DO get better and I will promise you that. It may not be instantly but give it time and do things that make you as a person happy. For me that was skiing, and for those months that there wasn't any snow, I made myself a summer set up :) you'll get through this!
Pop quiz. Safe and effective is....
a.) FDA approved for the treatment of depression, studied in millions of people with a very minimal and known side effect profile. Shown to be more effective than placebo (as I discussed in the last post) and known to create remission in 2/3 of depressed patients without additional intervention (e.g. no therapy, no comprehensive life overhaul)
b.) a shitload of random amino acids, herbs, and ayurvedic meds - all of which have the same potential for adverse reactions that pharmaceuticals do - that have never been shown to have any efficacy in depression. Furthermore, they are not proactively regulated by anyone, so you may or may not actually get the active ingredient you think your getting. (though I'll grant you that the cognitive behavioral therapy recommendation is legit)
c.) fuck it all and trip balls for a few days and hope new understanding of reality will whatever fix your psycho-social-neuro-hormonal problems are driving your depression.
I mean, I get that it's cool that hallucinogens have some potential (that has not been replicated in 'thousands' of studies - in fact it has only been tested in small 'proof-of-concept' type studies that do not compare it to current standard of care - and only in cases of refractory depression, and those with comorbid PTSD) to treat depression. And I'll grant you that every person's experience is different. But use your heads - if you were depressed would you really want an experimental treatment -unknown if it works at all, unknown what dosage or treatment regime would be effective, unknown what side effects or adverse reactions it might cause- as your first shot, when good safe options exist? It would literally be medical malpractice for someone who knows what they're talking about to prescribe that. If you want to try shrooms, try shrooms - but don't do as a treatment for depression.
No, science / western medicine doesn't have the answer to everything and it never will. However, it does have answers to some things, and randomized controlled trials demonstrating efficacy and safety is not equivalent to some anecdotes and a few preliminary studies.
Treating mental disorders, for example anxiety and fear based phobias with drugs where the mechanisms of action is agonist via GABA receptors like benzodiazepine’s can be particularly unsafe for longterm use. Nevertheless, FDA approval simply means that the risks outweigh the benefits for the indication and under the conditions that are in the label. Therefore, the drug should be used accordingly and appropriately. There's a lot that can go wrong that doesn't fit under that definition.
The fact is that the FDA does not conduct tests/safety trial investigations on the drugs that are up for approval. The FDA relies completely on research/trials of the pharmaceutical company who develops and applies for a new drugs approval. lobby
Yes, trials to determine a drugs efficacy can be run by independent physicians and major research hospitals and clinics around the world.
"The user fees enable the FDA to hirer more people to scrutinize NDAs to determine if they merits approval.” Which, wouldn’t be classified as research.
Basically, pharmaceutical companies lobby and bribe the FDA to approve their drugs, and accepts research that may or may not be founded with good science. And that the user fee of $2,169,100 that will be charged to drug companies in 2014 is peanuts to them. Conflict of interest pure and simple.
Drugs like Levaquin and Cipro don’t have stronger warnings, even though over 60,000 complaints have been filed with the FDA letting them know of body wide side effects causing permenant damage to people has gone no where. Forbes, PBS, NYTimes all have written articles on terrying side effects that have caused disabilities to 10′s of thousands of people and FDA has looked the other way.
I am simply saying be weary about what you are told. GABA agonists, even less potent herbs that are not FDA approved have their consequences. Agonist of GABA, induced down regulation of receptors, builds tolerance fast and as a result rebound and withdraw upon cessation. This is prolonged use and not acute. However, these drugs do have valuable medicinal use, nor am I suggesting that they should NEVER be taken in any circumstance. I’m saying that prolonged usage of these drugs, in my opinion should be avoided if treating anxiety and fear based phobias.
I was simply referring to easily accessible, cheap substances, minerals and coping techniques that can cure or lessen anxiety and anxiety disorders. Magnesium, bacopa, rhodiola rosea, theanine, tianeptein, myo-inostiol, have been tested for efficacy and have thousands of easily accessible studies for you to read.
For example, BACOPA shown to upregulate down-regulated GABA receptors, which means it could prove highly useful in helping to treat recovery from GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST ADDICTION:
Whereas, prolonged usage of GABA agonists down regulate receptors upon cessation, inducing a spike in anxiety.
Epilepsy Behav. 2010 Apr;17(4):441-7. Epub 2010 Feb 11.
Behavioral deficit and decreased GABA receptor functional regulation in the cerebellum of epileptic rats: effect of Bacopa monnieri and bacoside A.
Mathew J, Peeyush Kumar T, Khan RS, Paulose CS.
Source
Department of Biotechnology, Molecular Neurobiology and Cell Biology Unit, Centre for Neuroscience, Cochin University of Science and Technology, Kerala, India.
Abstract
In the present study, the effects of Bacopa monnieri and its active component, bacoside A, on motor deficit and alterations of GABA receptor functional regulation in the cerebellum of epileptic rats were investigated. Scatchard analysis of [(3)H]GABA and [(3)H]bicuculline in the cerebellum of epileptic rats revealed a significant decrease in B(max) compared with control. Real-time polymerase chain reaction amplification of GABA(A) receptor subunits-GABA(Aalpha1), GABA(Aalpha5,) and GABA(Adelta)-was downregulated (P
Personally, heavy exercise, biking, Ketone based diet/low-carbs, however, I do have days where I stack up on the good carbs, L-theanine, myo-inostiol and magnesium daily have ridded of much of my anxiety.
CONAIR_BUSCEMITreating mental disorders, for example anxiety and fear based phobias with drugs where the mechanisms of action is agonist via GABA receptors like benzodiazepine’s can be particularly unsafe for longterm use. Nevertheless, FDA approval simply means that the risks outweigh the benefits for the indication and under the conditions that are in the label. Therefore, the drug should be used accordingly and appropriately. There's a lot that can go wrong that doesn't fit under that definition.
The fact is that the FDA does not conduct tests/safety trial investigations on the drugs that are up for approval. The FDA relies completely on research/trials of the pharmaceutical company who develops and applies for a new drugs approval. lobby
Yes, trials to determine a drugs efficacy can be run by independent physicians and major research hospitals and clinics around the world.
"The user fees enable the FDA to hirer more people to scrutinize NDAs to determine if they merits approval.” Which, wouldn’t be classified as research.
Basically, pharmaceutical companies lobby and bribe the FDA to approve their drugs, and accepts research that may or may not be founded with good science. And that the user fee of $2,169,100 that will be charged to drug companies in 2014 is peanuts to them. Conflict of interest pure and simple.
Drugs like Levaquin and Cipro don’t have stronger warnings, even though over 60,000 complaints have been filed with the FDA letting them know of body wide side effects causing permenant damage to people has gone no where. Forbes, PBS, NYTimes all have written articles on terrying side effects that have caused disabilities to 10′s of thousands of people and FDA has looked the other way.
I am simply saying be weary about what you are told. GABA agonists, even less potent herbs that are not FDA approved have their consequences. Agonist of GABA, induced down regulation of receptors, builds tolerance fast and as a result rebound and withdraw upon cessation. This is prolonged use and not acute. However, these drugs do have valuable medicinal use, nor am I suggesting that they should NEVER be taken in any circumstance. I’m saying that prolonged usage of these drugs, in my opinion should be avoided if treating anxiety and fear based phobias.
I want to address a few points here.
1. The FDA weighs drug approval on a few categories including efficacy, side effects, and need. A drug that is either a generic or in extremely crowded market will be subjected to much harsher standards than a drug that is aimed at an orphan disease. A drug like Cipro or Levaquin is going to go through rigorous tests than a drug for a disease like DMD, because both are approaching a market that already has a multitude of other options. A quick glance at the Phase I and Phase II studies show that both had extremely large patient groups and experienced extremely small percentages of adverse side effects, rendering them statistically insignificant. No drug is perfect, natural or synthetic, so side effects will occur. What matters is how often. Injuries aside, Cipro and its class of drugs are integral to the modern medicine due to their wide range of use, efficacy, and low cost. The benefits outweigh the costs.
2.A The FDA does not have the resources or time to design and implement trials for every single drug that passes through their system. Those trials cost millions of dollars, require sometimes up to thousands of patients, and take years if they are not fast-tracked.
2.B Companies that submit their science to the FDA is fully available either through their own website or clinicaltrials.gov, allowing for both investor and public scrutiny. While companies may try to spin their data, most keen analysts will notice the shortcomings or holes in the arguments which can potentially devastate the stock of the company. GSK recently had its pipeline get absolutely destroyed and as a result some of its key investors (board members) are calling for it to be broken-up. Smaller companies that fail are not as lucky and instead see their company's stocks fall to $10< or at worse case $1
Back for one last post to apologize to OP... didn't mean to highjack your thread bro :( Just wanted to share my personal experience, let myself get caught up in the debate. Hope that you can sift through the arguing to see the people also giving you advice.
