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ON3P Billy Goat vs Wrenegade

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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
First off I'm sorry I made a thread about just billy goats but I didn't have this dilemma then.

So here's the deal. I'm gonna be doing some big mtn, side country this year and also some IFSA comps. I love my kartels, but I could probably use something more chargy and stable in the tail. And since I love ON3P, I want to stick with them.

So I'm 5'8 and 140. Pretty advanced skier, but not the best. I'm looking at either BG in a 176 or a wren 112 in a 176.

Obviously the wren makes more sense right? But after a lot of review reading I'm not sure. It sounds like the Wrenegade is a super advanced ski and if you don't charge hard all over you will be screwed over. I'm a little worried the wren might be a bit too much for me after reading some reviews. So I still want the BGs still. I'm not sure how they are in variable conditions, but most people say they are good. Also I've heard they are almost just as chargy and stable, but more pivoty and slashy as well.

So do you think I could handle the wren? Or should I get the BG? It seems like it could be a better fit but I'm just not sure. Don't want to spend a lot of money and not like the ski for what I'm using it for.

I would demo but I don't have the chance to, thanks guys.
Aug 18 2015 1:15PM
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shin-bang
Posts: 4100 - Karma: 6,992
Dude for the ultimate big Mtn experience I prefer the 2012 line abangs mounted at -4.20
Aug 18 2015 1:24PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
shin-bangI prefer men


thanks
Aug 18 2015 1:27PM
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Swandog7
Posts: 4955 - Karma: 9,019
shin-bangDude for the ultimate big Mtn experience I prefer the 2012 line abangs mounted at -4.20


Heard some dude hit 69mph on those things
Aug 18 2015 2:38PM
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Session
Posts: 5318 - Karma: 21,391
.lenconFirst off I'm sorry I made a thread about just billy goats but I didn't have this dilemma then.

So here's the deal. I'm gonna be doing some big mtn, side country this year and also some IFSA comps. I love my kartels, but I could probably use something more chargy and stable in the tail. And since I love ON3P, I want to stick with them.

So I'm 5'8 and 140. Pretty advanced skier, but not the best. I'm looking at either BG in a 176 or a wren 112 in a 176.

Obviously the wren makes more sense right? But after a lot of review reading I'm not sure. It sounds like the Wrenegade is a super advanced ski and if you don't charge hard all over you will be screwed over. I'm a little worried the wren might be a bit too much for me after reading some reviews. So I still want the BGs still. I'm not sure how they are in variable conditions, but most people say they are good. Also I've heard they are almost just as chargy and stable, but more pivoty and slashy as well.

So do you think I could handle the wren? Or should I get the BG? It seems like it could be a better fit but I'm just not sure. Don't want to spend a lot of money and not like the ski for what I'm using it for.

I would demo but I don't have the chance to, thanks guys.


BG's crush variable, but are super maneuverable in tight places. I have never had trouble blasting through ski'd out,set up, PNW dogshit on BG's.
Aug 18 2015 6:02PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
SessionBG's crush variable, but are super maneuverable in tight places. I have never had trouble blasting through ski'd out,set up, PNW dogshit on BG's.


Do you think they could make a for a good ski to compete on? I'd probably compete at like snowbird, targhee, Jackson, and maybe big sky.
Aug 18 2015 6:13PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
Wrens do one thing, but they do it very well, they go fast. To really experience them you need a wide open steep and no one in the way. They're super stable at speed, but can be tough to maneuver at slower speeds.

BGs on the other hand will be more stable in all (read -- variable) conditions, they can still charge, but they'll float better and be more maneuverable in tighter situations.

When I was setting people up for demos racers got the Wren 102s and "free ride"/tree guys got the BGs. I'd say you'd be better off withy he BGs, once you get used to the tail and the RES side cut (haha, side cut is redundant there) you'll be able to take them pretty much anywhere (except the park -- I wouldn't go there with them, haha).
Aug 18 2015 10:22PM
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Session
Posts: 5318 - Karma: 21,391
.lenconDo you think they could make a for a good ski to compete on? I'd probably compete at like snowbird, targhee, Jackson, and maybe big sky.


A lot of the guys on the Freeride World Tour are skiing more modern shapes, and not just straight guns like in the past. BG will kill.
Aug 19 2015 12:53AM
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haggis_hunter
Posts: 399 - Karma: 207
Have a look at the GPO from Praxis as well, Tabke slayed the FWT on them.
Aug 19 2015 9:42AM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
SessionA lot of the guys on the Freeride World Tour are skiing more modern shapes, and not just straight guns like in the past. BG will kill.


Thank you. Greatly leaning towards the BG now
Aug 19 2015 10:58AM
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pandasteeze
Posts: 382 - Karma: 38
I ride the wrens as a straight powder charging ski.

It's the model from 3 or 4 years ago when they were still a full twin and not as crazy stiff as they are now. And they still aren't that playful lol.

The Billy Goat would definitely fit what you're looking for more.
Aug 19 2015 1:23PM
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jca
Posts: 4162 - Karma: 6,261
I wouldn't count out the wrens. I'm 5'8", 165lbs on a pair of 2013 191s. While I haven't skied the BGs I find that the Wrens are actually pretty playful considering their dimensions and profile, the longish sidecut lets them smear turns when you want and rail an edge through crud going fast. I ski them fast and hard in really tight trees and in all conditions, pretty much only ride my Caylors when there's more than 5" of fresh or if I'm touring.

I think the 186's would be good for ya but I prefer longer skis and
Aug 19 2015 11:51PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
jcaI wouldn't count out the wrens. I'm 5'8", 165lbs on a pair of 2013 191s. While I haven't skied the BGs I find that the Wrens are actually pretty playful considering their dimensions and profile, the longish sidecut lets them smear turns when you want and rail an edge through crud going fast. I ski them fast and hard in really tight trees and in all conditions, pretty much only ride my Caylors when there's more than 5" of fresh or if I'm touring.

I think the 186's would be good for ya but I prefer longer skis and


Thanks man, this helps. I don't want to count out the wrens, but the BGs may be the way to go.
Aug 21 2015 5:57PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
Bump cause I got on the BG and Wren today. Both killed it, but wren isn't for me. BG is freaking awesome tho. If anyone is considering them, just get them. I was so surprised. Real fun ski and I might just have to get them.
Feb 27 2016 8:13PM
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NigelStein
Posts: 466 - Karma: 455
Im similar size to you 5'8 and 130 and I love my BGs. Had them over in Japan last week and they are the single best ski I've ever been on. Killed everything I went in, tight trees to open fields they're great. I have the 186s and if I was you I'd maybe go longer than 176 (isn't it a 174 now?) and do 179/184. Maybe talk to Scott first he'll know best.
Feb 27 2016 10:54PM
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Mr.Penguin
Posts: 207 - Karma: 165
I will most likely be buying the BG for an Alta/Snowbird daily driver next year. I've ridden them multiple times, and on those mountains they absolutely destroy it.
Feb 27 2016 11:14PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
NigelSteinIm similar size to you 5'8 and 130 and I love my BGs. Had them over in Japan last week and they are the single best ski I've ever been on. Killed everything I went in, tight trees to open fields they're great. I have the 186s and if I was you I'd maybe go longer than 176 (isn't it a 174 now?) and do 179/184. Maybe talk to Scott first he'll know best.


Yeah I was on the 179 and it was a good size. Only thing tho is the mount. They were fun but they just felt really mounted back idk. The k116 felt nice but totally different skis
Feb 28 2016 12:18AM
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Session
Posts: 5318 - Karma: 21,391
.lenconYeah I was on the 179 and it was a good size. Only thing tho is the mount. They were fun but they just felt really mounted back idk. The k116 felt nice but totally different skis


Not meant to be forward mounted whatsoever. You will literally die.
Feb 28 2016 3:13AM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
SessionNot meant to be forward mounted whatsoever. You will literally die.


Yeah I really enjoyed them though. I'm just gonna have to wait for an RES jib ski...soon
Feb 28 2016 10:11AM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
The referenced post has been removed.


What's the recommended on the BG now? Like -8? I think it would be fun and try them at like -4 to -6 and see what they're like
Feb 29 2016 11:16PM
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Session
Posts: 5318 - Karma: 21,391
The referenced post has been removed.


How did you come to plus 1? I imagine much farther forward would put you on the RES making things funky. If i get back on BG's next year I may give that a shot, but given how much a like the rest of my season on Kartel 116's. I may just stick with those, and grab a 98 to go with it.
Mar 1 2016 11:04AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
As one who helped test and set the mount mark for that ski, believe me when I say it gets weird and funky when you mount a BG too far forward. If you have a set of BG's with demo bindings nearby (shop or demo tour), see if they can offset the demo's to move you forward. Dont say I didnt warn you.
Mar 1 2016 9:43PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
RudyGarmischAs one who helped test and set the mount mark for that ski, believe me when I say it gets weird and funky when you mount a BG too far forward. If you have a set of BG's with demo bindings nearby (shop or demo tour), see if they can offset the demo's to move you forward. Dont say I didnt warn you.


Haha. I did this once cause one of the guys told me it would be weird. Probably the 3rd most terrifying thing I've ever done on skis. You just don't have any edge once you get on the RES underfoot. If you flat base you'll be fine, but the second I went to turn it on edge I felt like I had nothing and everything at the same time. It felt like I was smearing/slideing and hooking with the tails all at once. Not recommended...unless you're up for a frighten run that you can hopefully laugh about later. The BG is the one ski I would NEVER mount anywhere other than recommended (actually that's not true -- anything with RES goes at recommended no matter what).
Mar 1 2016 10:03PM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
I don't have alot of experience with pow skis or chargy west-style skis, but I bought some BGs in 186 for crazy cheap about a month ago. I ski on the ice coast and took them out on ice coast conditions... and they go fast. Like really really fast and really really straight. Not gona lie I almost hit multiple people because of the massive turning radius lagging behind my anticipated turn. definitely gona be sick skis for next year when pow hits though.
Mar 1 2016 11:24PM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,086
.lenconBump cause I got on the BG and Wren today. Both killed it, but wren isn't for me. BG is freaking awesome tho. If anyone is considering them, just get them. I was so surprised. Real fun ski and I might just have to get them.


Thanks for taking them out, and nice to meet you!

The standard advice for people skiing any of our RES shapes at the demo includes skiing them taller and more centered whenever you lay them over in harder snow. The RES tends to simulate a radius centered right underfoot, so when you get forward onto the curve of the reverse sidecut, it's small wonder that it doesn't stay as stable as something more traditional. This changes completely in soft snow--I can ski the BG or Steeple series very forward in the soft stuff and they're phenomenal.

My guess is that you're more used to the (more) center mounted feel of the Kartel, but there are plenty of skis out there that deserve a directional mount point, and gain a lot from it, and the BG and Steeple Series both qualify.
Mar 6 2016 9:54PM
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