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Rossignal FKS 18/Look Pivot 18 Vs. Salomon STH 16

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HOTKARLHOTKARL
Posts: 483 - Karma: 652
I have to purchase two pairs of new bindings for my Salomon rocker 2 122s and my Line Future SpinsI previously had two pairs of Marker Jesters and they both had horrendous problems and they deteriorate way to fast.

I have a pair of Salomon STH 16 and I like them. But I have never ridden a pair of FKS's. But i have heard mix results about their durability. And whether the increase in weight is worth it.


which bindings would you suggest to put on the Salomon Rocker 2 122s and the Line Future Spins
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Jul 13 2015 6:07PM
32 28
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epapageorges
Posts: 188 - Karma: 163
Sth16s have a really terrible release in my opinion, the heal pre releases up to a super high din so you gotta crank em but the toe is tight so it makes for a real dangerous situation for your knees
Jul 13 2015 9:31PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
epapageorgesSth16s have a really terrible release in my opinion, the heal pre releases up to a super high din so you gotta crank em but the toe is tight so it makes for a real dangerous situation for your knees




Don't listen to this guy at all PLEASE. Also it's HEEL not fucking HEAL ya dunce. "Super dangerous"... Get the fuck out of here. People like you are the worst.


Both bindings are awesome- the cream of the crop- just different flavors. I find the STHs to be a little more user-friendly as the DINs/forward pressure are less ambiguous to set and have a more positive step-in "clunk" that is super satisfying.

That said, I like the wiggle room the elasticity of a Pivot/FKS provides at speed and it's my preferred binding but if you have to ask I'd say stick with the STH. It's just a great all-around binding and very straightforward design that's been proven over years and years of abuse.
Jul 14 2015 9:46AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
Very few people need the 18/16 din versions. How big are you?


Personally, the P18 is the best damn binding ever built. Durable, elastic, consistent. The STH2 is also a great binding, and defiantly easier to use, it is not however as elastic of a package. I use the single pivot P18 and P15 exclusively (with the exception of touring bindings). Nothing else really skis like it, and I am sold on its performance. I am also a bigger guy (94kg) and quite bluntly, ski faster and harder than most people. I have shattered multiple pairs of jester bindings. If you are not as big, or hard on your gear, the Pivot14 or STH13s would probably work well for you, and save some money.
Jul 14 2015 10:43AM
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epapageorges
Posts: 188 - Karma: 163
Huck_NorrisDon't listen to this guy at all PLEASE. Also it's HEEL not fucking HEAL ya dunce. "Super dangerous"... Get the fuck out of here. People like you are the worst.


Both bindings are awesome- the cream of the crop- just different flavors. I find the STHs to be a little more user-friendly as the DINs/forward pressure are less ambiguous to set and have a more positive step-in "clunk" that is super satisfying.

That said, I like the wiggle room the elasticity of a Pivot/FKS provides at speed and it's my preferred binding but if you have to ask I'd say stick with the STH. It's just a great all-around binding and very straightforward design that's been proven over years and years of abuse.


Tell that to my knee you fucking piece of shit, why don't go do something productive and kill yourself
Jul 14 2015 1:20PM
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epapageorges
Posts: 188 - Karma: 163
Huck_NorrisDon't listen to this guy at all PLEASE. Also it's HEEL not fucking HEAL ya dunce. "Super dangerous"... Get the fuck out of here. People like you are the worst.


Both bindings are awesome- the cream of the crop- just different flavors. I find the STHs to be a little more user-friendly as the DINs/forward pressure are less ambiguous to set and have a more positive step-in "clunk" that is super satisfying.

That said, I like the wiggle room the elasticity of a Pivot/FKS provides at speed and it's my preferred binding but if you have to ask I'd say stick with the STH. It's just a great all-around binding and very straightforward design that's been proven over years and years of abuse.


Tell that to my knee you fucking piece of shit, why don't you go do something productive and kill yourself
Jul 14 2015 1:21PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
You hurt your knee skiing and are trying to blaim the binding? Sounds like you're a bitch.
Jul 14 2015 1:34PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 36680 - Karma: 110,560
epapageorgesTell that to my knee you fucking piece of shit, why don't you go do something productive and kill yourself


dont crank your din settings so high then, maybe it would have released in time to save your weak ligaments.




hard to gauge, I enjoy both bindings myself being a purchaser of both salomon products and rossi/look stuff. I personally am really enjoying the FKS 18's on my devastators, I love the durable steel toe piece and think it is one of the best, if not, the best toe piece for alpine skiing. im not a heavy dude by any means but the ease of mind knowing that my skis wont come flying off at high speeds or when im charging shit really makes a big difference.

depends a whole lot on your specs, ability, and what you wanna ski though. I personally dont advise anyone getting 18 din bindings if they aren't heavy/charge hard unless they REALLY want something bombproof that will stay on their feet, but that is really all up to you.
Jul 14 2015 1:47PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 36680 - Karma: 110,560
DeebieSkeebiesdont crank your din settings so high then, maybe it would have released in time to save your weak ligaments.




hard to gauge, I enjoy both bindings myself being a purchaser of both salomon products and rossi/look stuff. I personally am really enjoying the FKS 18's on my devastators, I love the durable steel toe piece and think it is one of the best, if not, the best toe piece for alpine skiing. im not a heavy dude by any means but the ease of mind knowing that my skis wont come flying off at high speeds or when im charging shit really makes a big difference.

depends a whole lot on your specs, ability, and what you wanna ski though. I personally dont advise anyone getting 18 din bindings if they aren't heavy/charge hard unless they REALLY want something bombproof that will stay on their feet, but that is really all up to you.


also check out those new Dual WTR's Rossi and Look have out this year, fuckin sweet toe pieces as well.
Jul 14 2015 1:50PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
epapageorgesSth16s have a really terrible release in my opinion, the heal pre releases up to a super high din so you gotta crank em but the toe is tight so it makes for a real dangerous situation for your knees


It takes the same amount of force to release a Salomon binding at a release setting of 9 as a Rossignol or Marker binding set at 9.

I also wrecked my knee on a pair of Salomon bindings. But I would have wrecked my knee on any binding in that situation. They were set too high, and I paid the price.
Jul 14 2015 2:13PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
epapageorgesTell that to my knee you fucking piece of shit, why don't go do something productive and kill yourself




Yeah definitely bash the binding. Lol. People like you are the worst.

Either the DIN was set too high, you set the forward pressure wrong or the injury was unavoidable. All three options point to you shutting the fuck up now. We all know the STH didn't cause your injury dude.
Jul 14 2015 2:41PM
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ghosthop
Posts: 631 - Karma: 1,027
Don't have much to add besides if you boot pack often, I would recommend the STH over the the pivots. Pivots are more finicky to step into and nothing sucks more than standing at the top of your line for five minutes trying to scrape the last bit of snow off the bottom of your boot so you can step into your binding. I also weigh nothing and wear a small boot, YMMV.
Jul 14 2015 2:49PM
3 0
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epapageorges
Posts: 188 - Karma: 163
Huck_NorrisYeah definitely bash the binding. Lol. People like you are the worst.

Either the DIN was set too high, you set the forward pressure wrong or the injury was unavoidable. All three options point to you shutting the fuck up now. We all know the STH didn't cause your injury dude.


The injury was unavoidable, my fault for sure, but I did have several pre releases out of the heel piece while riding them and my din was set at a reasonable 10.5, always blowing out of the heel while landing switch and yes I know how to correctly set the forward pressure which was set by a ski tech homie of mine while I was there watching. Not saying it is the STh2s fault in my case, definitely was misjudgment on my part but I have had both pivots and sth2's and the old full metal sths and I could get away with a lower din without prereleasing on both the old metal sth and pivots so the higher din definitely didn't help, also the new sth2s are higher up off the ski than the other two which is undesirable in my opinion. Overall I just think that the pivot is a much better binding. On another note you truly are a dick and you won't get much out of life being a miserable asshole.
Jul 14 2015 4:32PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
epapageorgesThe injury was unavoidable, my fault for sure, but I did have several pre releases out of the heel piece while riding them and my din was set at a reasonable 10.5, always blowing out of the heel while landing switch and yes I know how to correctly set the forward pressure which was set by a ski tech homie of mine while I was there watching. Not saying it is the STh2s fault in my case, definitely was misjudgment on my part but I have had both pivots and sth2's and the old full metal sths and I could get away with a lower din without prereleasing on both the old metal sth and pivots so the higher din definitely didn't help, also the new sth2s are higher up off the ski than the other two which is undesirable in my opinion. Overall I just think that the pivot is a much better binding. On another note you truly are a dick and you won't get much out of life being a miserable asshole.



IF YOU WERE PRERELEASING AT 10.5 IT WASNT FUCKING SET CORRECTLY YOU FUCKING NIMROD.

Seriously, you are embarrassing yourself. Just stop. You blamed the STH in your first post, you got called out for it and then you blow up like we're supposed to know you wrecked your knee without you saying a word about it.

I might be an asshole but you're so full of shit your eyes are turning brown. Goddam n00bz. Dafuqouttahere.
Jul 14 2015 7:17PM
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gapersarefriends
Posts: 2158 - Karma: 4,269
i was facing this same problem for bindings on my ak jj's, and went with sth 16s because i heard that fks/pivots blow when trying to get into them in deep snow
Jul 14 2015 7:32PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
gapersarefriendsi was facing this same problem for bindings on my ak jj's, and went with sth 16s because i heard that fks/pivots blow when trying to get into them in deep snow


This may be true for folks who struggle with sinple life tasks, like tying their shoes or talking their way out of a legitimate speeding ticket.

I have never ever had a problem.
Jul 14 2015 7:50PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 36680 - Karma: 110,560
gapersarefriendsi was facing this same problem for bindings on my ak jj's, and went with sth 16s because i heard that fks/pivots blow when trying to get into them in deep snow


I heard this a whole lot too, but honestly I have never ever experienced any issues getting clicked back in on my 18's in deep snow, really the only issues experienced was snow being caked onto my boots as I walked over to the chair from my car or something.
Jul 15 2015 2:06PM
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epapageorges
Posts: 188 - Karma: 163
Huck_NorrisIF YOU WERE PRERELEASING AT 10.5 IT WASNT FUCKING SET CORRECTLY YOU FUCKING NIMROD.

Seriously, you are embarrassing yourself. Just stop. You blamed the STH in your first post, you got called out for it and then you blow up like we're supposed to know you wrecked your knee without you saying a word about it.

I might be an asshole but you're so full of shit your eyes are turning brown. Goddam n00bz. Dafuqouttahere.


Knee was wrecked before i even got the sth2s, just was sketch skiing with a tight din and torn acl. I aint even mad though.. probably still a better skier than you without an acl ya punk bitch
Jul 15 2015 5:26PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
epapageorgesKnee was wrecked before i even got the sth2s, just was sketch skiing with a tight din and torn acl. I aint even mad though.. probably still a better skier than you without an acl ya punk bitch





Aaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha whatever you say boss. Whatever you say. Maybe try a 13 next time.
Jul 15 2015 7:28PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 8906 - Karma: 57,364
jesus this thread desperately needs some actual facts and science so i'll be the adult here and provide it

salomons are aight, STHs and 916s are dope unlike a lot of their other past models, but if you don't use turntable heel bindings youre a pussy so go for the pivots. oh and im a way better skier than everyone in here and my knees are made of titanium

sorry to use so much confusing terminology but let me know if you need any of that explained in layman's terms
Jul 15 2015 8:16PM
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HOTKARLHOTKARL
Posts: 483 - Karma: 652
the new 2016 FKS WTR does look sick. I just really wish they made a 16 din FKS because it would be cheaper then the 18 din so it would cost about the same as the STH
Jul 15 2015 11:26PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
freeskierinsfthe new 2016 FKS WTR does look sick. I just really wish they made a 16 din FKS because it would be cheaper then the 18 din so it would cost about the same as the STH


IIRC, the 15-DIN FKS was the same price as the 18.

FKS/Pivot 15s are still out there, but they all have skinny brakes. But they can be found.

The nice thing about the Salomon bindings is the ease and price of replacement brakes. I can do a brake arm swap in about 25s.
Jul 16 2015 11:23AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
Caucasian_AsianFKS/Pivot 15s are still out there, but they all have skinny brakes. But they can be found.


I bought a pair of brand new FKS 155s with 108mm breaks last winter off of craigslist. Cost about $100 and came with some skis and boots I gave away.

It was interesting. Both the binding housing and breaks were brand new, and I could find no evidence of the breaks being swapped. They were the 108ish mm wide breaks that were available with the pivots and fks back in 2006ish before they went away. The most interesting thing is they were mounted on a same year Rossi youth FIS ski.

It was one of my better finds.
Jul 16 2015 1:21PM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3703 - Karma: 7,375
cobra_commanderThis may be true for folks who struggle with sinple life tasks, like tying their shoes or talking their way out of a legitimate speeding ticket.

I have never ever had a problem.


I love my pivots to death but I do admit that they are really finicky when trying to click in on uneven terrain or deeper snow. It really shouldn't be a deciding factor as to which binding you buy though.

Pivot/Fks
Durable toepiece
Reliable as all hell
Lots of elasticity
Releases feel more natural with pivoting heelpiece

STH2
Easily replaced brakes
Wider toepeice mounting pattern
Higher elasticity
No dildo heel to peruse your bum

STHs will usually be cheaper and perform just as well, if not better than pivots. But its really up to you
Jul 20 2015 9:35PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,178
^^^^ someone finally said it! Both are good binders, no doubt! But STH2 actually has more elasticity. It doesn't have that turn table, but it's still plenty safe and durable. I love my STH2! You could probably get them for cheaper too. Also sth2 come with a warranty from most places. My shop gave me a 5 year warranty. Pretty cool man, hop on them
Jul 20 2015 9:47PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
.lencon^^^^ someone finally said it! Both are good binders, no doubt! But STH2 actually has more elasticity. It doesn't have that turn table, but it's still plenty safe and durable. I love my STH2! You could probably get them for cheaper too. Also sth2 come with a warranty from most places. My shop gave me a 5 year warranty. Pretty cool man, hop on them


The STH2 toe has more elasticity than the Look Single Pivot toe. The STH, as a whole system, does not have more elasticity than the Look pivot binding.
Jul 20 2015 10:03PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
Just gonna leap in here and mention that right now you can get a Look Pivot 18 with a 130mm brake for $240 on Evo - go into Outlet, add it to your cart then apply discount code "sticks10" (only good today?) for 10% off.

That's a steal for an awesome binding, no-brainer really in my opinion.

As above, anyone who struggles to get into FKS18/Pivot 18's in pow isn't burly enough to be riding them in the first place. You just shout at them a bit and crush your boot in. If it doesn't go in, then it wasn't going to go into a Jester either.
Jul 21 2015 12:54AM
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HOTKARLHOTKARL
Posts: 483 - Karma: 652
rozboonJust gonna leap in here and mention that right now you can get a Look Pivot 18 with a 130mm brake for $240 on Evo - go into Outlet, add it to your cart then apply discount code "sticks10" (only good today?) for 10% off.

That's a steal for an awesome binding, no-brainer really in my opinion.

As above, anyone who struggles to get into FKS18/Pivot 18's in pow isn't burly enough to be riding them in the first place. You just shout at them a bit and crush your boot in. If it doesn't go in, then it wasn't going to go into a Jester either.

An extremely well written third paragraph. sooo true.
Jul 21 2015 1:55AM
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Crispy.
Posts: 6102 - Karma: 7,626
I have had 2-3 pairs of FKS and 1 pair of the STH2 16s. Without a doubt I like the STHs more. They've proven much more durable in my experience and really give you that locked in feeling unlike the FKS.
Jul 21 2015 7:53AM
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eljefe
Posts: 914 - Karma: 465
I for years back in the day (03-08') tried to match a correlation between pros knee injuries and binding correlation.

I was convinced that there was a higher correlation of injuries on non-fks bindings than on.

In hindsight it was probably cognitive bias.

I ski'd probably 10 different pairs of fks 155 & 185..

I also ski'd Salomon 912 & 914 before the STH series.

I now ski Tyrolias because I needed a 'traditional' heal piece.

I have ski tech'd for a long time and understand the release values on all of the bindings.

My personal experience is that all of the toes release pretty similarly at similar settings, however in the real world, at the same din setting, I experienced less forward heal releases from an FKS heal.

Ultimately I choose to run my bindings now with higher heal retention settings than toe.. I find that I am more prone to unintentional heal release than toe.

My .02
Dec 13 2018 2:28PM
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