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New park skier advice on sliding boxes

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michael.hsu.5059
Posts: 37 - Karma: 284
Hiya fellow skiers!

I'm brand new to skiing in the park and I'm wondering if you guys could give me some tips on sliding boxes?

I've mostly just been doing straight air off small/medium kickers and often times I go into the jump with too little speed/height. But I'll get over that as I gain more confidence.

With boxes I've only been able to do 50/50s. I've had some bad falls attempting to hop sideways onto the box and just getting quite discouraged and frequently bail out as I'm approaching the box and just end up doing a normal 50/50.

My problem is that I never can quite get myself to turn 90 (more like turn about 35 degrees and fall off the side). I see other skiiers hop onto the box so effortlessly. I have to seriously "basketball jump" to get enough air to turn the 90. I'm not really sure what is the issue. Are my boots/skis too heavy? I've watched endless youtube instruction vids and read endless guidelines and they all say to make sure your shoulders are square with the box when you turn. But often times I see skiers jump onto the box with their shoulders pointed down the box the whole way and only really spinning their hips. I'm wondering if this would be easier?

I've tried practice jump and turning 90 while still and that seems to work ok. Not sure if it's because jumping while moving is harder or what...

Sorry for the long post...
Any tips would be appreciated!
Mar 27 2015 6:39PM
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veng_m
Posts: 1267 - Karma: 2,720
learn how to pop good, just try popping off the lip and you'll get it
once you get a good pop, come in to the box with it in between your legs, pop on and spin a 90 with your hips, look and focus on the end, and ride away clean
Mar 27 2015 6:58PM
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SnowMiser
Posts: 801 - Karma: 3,150
I think it's all about the confidence that you'll able to stay on the box when you land. Remember to put most of your weight on your front foot, I remember learning and my most common error was slipping out and slamming my ass.

As for the 90° thing, just do it! It sounds so trivial but I promise it's a mental issue. Start turning like a millisecond before you go airborne so you have that momentum the whole time you're in the air.

Best of luck! Beginning is rough, but once you get it, it's like riding a bike.
Mar 27 2015 6:59PM
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michael.hsu.5059
Posts: 37 - Karma: 284
veng_mpop on and spin a 90 with your hips


When people say "pop" do they actually mean "jump"? I've seen many sources explain "pop" as what it sounds like...more of a springy-jerky motion from bent knees to fully upright. I really cannot see myself get too much off the ground if I was just "poping" according to that definition.


As for spinning 90 with my hips...is it true with what I mentioned that you shouldn't really be turing with your shoulders but with your hips (as I've observed many doing that on the hill)? Maybe that's part of the reason why I'm not spinning far enough?
Mar 27 2015 7:09PM
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Chubz.
Posts: 13918 - Karma: 25,656
DONT LOOK DOWN I REPEAT NEVER LOOK DOWN!



Always look at the end of the rail and focus on it. I had the hardest time on boxes when i was first learning and once i started getting it i found that i would grease boxes no problem if i focused on the end of the rail and nothing else
Mar 27 2015 7:12PM
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michael.hsu.5059
Posts: 37 - Karma: 284
SnowMiserIt sounds so trivial but I promise it's a mental issue. Start turning like a millisecond before you go airborne so you have that momentum the whole time you're in the air.


Yeah I've been thinking it might be a mental issue. My body says turn but my mind says no. I've seen people start turning their shoulders right before they jump. That sounds like it should help. Thanks!
Mar 27 2015 7:12PM
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michael.hsu.5059
Posts: 37 - Karma: 284
Chubz.DONT LOOK DOWN I REPEAT NEVER LOOK DOWN!


It just seems pretty freaky that you might completely miss landing on the box if you don't look where you'll be landing, especially on thinner boxes.
Mar 27 2015 7:15PM
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Chubz.
Posts: 13918 - Karma: 25,656
michael.hsu.5059It just seems pretty freaky that you might completely miss landing on the box if you don't look where you'll be landing, especially on thinner boxes.


thats why you approach the feature with it between your legs. Trust me man, keeping your eyes locked on the end of the box/rail will make a world of difference.
Mar 27 2015 7:18PM
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Thom4s
Posts: 213 - Karma: 1,079
Think about landing on a skateboard. No resistance whatsoever. I fell back learning boxes and rails so often because I was worried I would catch my front edge. Just keep your feet under you and expect to slide. As for getting on at 90 listen to everyone else and work on popping it should help.
Mar 27 2015 7:20PM
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michael.hsu.5059
Posts: 37 - Karma: 284
Chubz.thats why you approach the feature with it between your legs. Trust me man, keeping your eyes locked on the end of the box/rail will make a world of difference.


How far apart should the skis be? Shoulder-width sounds like it'd be too wide and would make for an awkward hop? I usually keep them pretty close together with knees almost touching. Easier for 50/50s anyway.
Mar 27 2015 7:22PM
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michael.hsu.5059
Posts: 37 - Karma: 284
Thom4sThink about landing on a skateboard. No resistance whatsoever. I fell back learning boxes and rails so often because I was worried I would catch my front edge. Just keep your feet under you and expect to slide. As for getting on at 90 listen to everyone else and work on popping it should help.


So is keeping my weight even on both skis better or should I put more weight on the front ski? I read/watched on most guides it's to keep the weight even?

Also on that matter, I've also seen in lots of vids that they actually put their front ski on edge as if to try and stop. Is that supposed to help with balance?
Mar 27 2015 7:27PM
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Chubz.
Posts: 13918 - Karma: 25,656
michael.hsu.5059How far apart should the skis be? Shoulder-width sounds like it'd be too wide and would make for an awkward hop? I usually keep them pretty close together with knees almost touching. Easier for 50/50s anyway.


Shoulder length is good, it's actually easier to slide boxes with your feet wider apart, as awkward as that sounds, if you go at it with your legs close together you're much more likely to slip out.


Basics to keep in mind while going for it.

Low gravity, wide feet and look at the end of the box

Pop a full 90 degrees and land with your eyes LOCKED on the end of the box.


When first learning, try and keep more weight on your front foot, that helped me a lot. When i first started getting boxes i would actually lift my back foot up a little bit. The more you get used to sliding on a surface like that you won't even think about where your weight is.

Looking at the end of the rail will also help keep more weight forward.
Mar 27 2015 7:34PM
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Chubz.
Posts: 13918 - Karma: 25,656
shoulder width* whatever
Mar 27 2015 7:36PM
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mseward
Posts: 1041 - Karma: 1,243
basically what chubz said. if you look at the end of the rail/box it makes a world of difference. Also if youre scared to not look at where youre landing think of it like this, its way better to commit fully to the box and slide off early on your tails if you dont land dead center than it is to slip onto your hip.
Mar 27 2015 7:37PM
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michael.hsu.5059
Posts: 37 - Karma: 284
Hey thanks a lot for all the tips guys! I'll definitely try them out!
Mar 27 2015 7:42PM
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Andrew_M
Posts: 410 - Karma: 4,047
michael.hsu.5059So is keeping my weight even on both skis better or should I put more weight on the front ski? I read/watched on most guides it's to keep the weight even?

Also on that matter, I've also seen in lots of vids that they actually put their front ski on edge as if to try and stop. Is that supposed to help with balance?


We say to put your weight on your front foot so that you think about it, like an over exaggeration so you think about doing that instead of hockey stopping. But yes you want your weight forward. The front edging will come as you progress, don't worry about it now. The best advice I can give you is go ski the regular mountain and really try to put your weight forward on your shins and drive through your turns, this will help you when you go back to the park. With your weight forward in your boots popping 90 will be effortless with a little practice. I would say keeping your legs shoulder width apart is totally fine, it will keep you balanced as you go into the feature. But as everyone has said before don't look at your feet, focus on the end of the box, and plan to pop 90 and ride the whole thing. Your body usually follows your eyes. Also don't over think it. What I like to do when I'm trying something new is to block it out of my mind until i drop to do it. Over thinking things always fucks me up. So have fun, a ride it like it aint no thang.
Mar 27 2015 7:46PM
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michael.hsu.5059
Posts: 37 - Karma: 284
Andrew_MWe say to put your weight on your front foot so that you think about it, like an over exaggeration so you think about doing that instead of hockey stopping. But yes you want your weight forward. The front edging will come as you progress, don't worry about it now. The best advice I can give you is go ski the regular mountain and really try to put your weight forward on your shins and drive through your turns, this will help you when you go back to the park. With your weight forward in your boots popping 90 will be effortless with a little practice. I would say keeping your legs shoulder width apart is totally fine, it will keep you balanced as you go into the feature. But as everyone has said before don't look at your feet, focus on the end of the box, and plan to pop 90 and ride the whole thing. Your body usually follows your eyes. Also don't over think it. What I like to do when I'm trying something new is to block it out of my mind until i drop to do it. Over thinking things always fucks me up. So have fun, a ride it like it aint no thang.


Hey thanks man I'll try them tips out!
Mar 27 2015 7:57PM
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veng_m
Posts: 1267 - Karma: 2,720
michael.hsu.5059When people say "pop" do they actually mean "jump"? I've seen many sources explain "pop" as what it sounds like...more of a springy-jerky motion from bent knees to fully upright. I really cannot see myself get too much off the ground if I was just "poping" according to that definition.


As for spinning 90 with my hips...is it true with what I mentioned that you shouldn't really be turing with your shoulders but with your hips (as I've observed many doing that on the hill)? Maybe that's part of the reason why I'm not spinning far enough?


it means to jump or "pop" off the kicker, but in a smooth motion and not a jerky one. when you approach the lip, start bending your knees, then when you are about to ski off the lip, extend your legs and suck them up and into your body. your legs will get stronger and itll become easier with practice. timing is everything to get a solid pop.
Mar 27 2015 8:30PM
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Nikolaus
Posts: 863 - Karma: 995
i had the same issue with turning 90. For me it was all commitment. It seemed scarier to be totally sideways, but when you finally get 90, it's so much easier to stay on the box. Turning 35 is pretty much guaranteed to fall off. Also, never look down, look at the end of the rail. Just keep practicing and it'll click for you. good luck
Mar 27 2015 9:00PM
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Big_Mtn
Posts: 551 - Karma: 1,647
Think about it this way: You are running on ice with shoes on and you hop and turn 90 and slide sideways without falling. Thats the mental picture that helped me the most. Picture it like that in your head. Good luck.
Mar 27 2015 9:50PM
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VANULAR
Posts: 1930 - Karma: 5,131
Jump 90 , have feet shoulder width apart and lean onto down hill ski aka front foot this will help you form slipping back which pretty much everyone does at first
Mar 27 2015 10:22PM
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b.utters
Posts: 321 - Karma: 99
Practice popping 90 degrees into a side slip on snow for a bit. Then take that to a box.
Mar 28 2015 12:55AM
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Rice
Posts: 311 - Karma: 2,228
b.uttersPractice popping 90 degrees into a side slip on snow for a bit. Then take that to a box.


Don't do this

Don't slide slip.

Do pop 90, but only when you are still, land with a gorilla stance.

When you are slip slipping, you slide on your back edge instead of having flat ski. If you slide a box on your back edge, you will mostly likely land on your side as I am guessing you are a beginner.

Practise by popping 90 on the snow, without moving. Land with a crouched stance. You should be able to do this easily.

And don't worry about weight, my skis are oversized and I have heavy all mtn boots and I can slide boxes well. You may need more speed...

Good luck and remember, go for the triple when you are in a pickle.
Mar 28 2015 9:24AM
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UilyJeff
Posts: 394 - Karma: 1,480
Easiest for me was learning how to do a continuing 180 instead and advance from there. After learning like that I almost over rotated every rail/box for a while, but I never had a problem coming out of it. You'll get it...practice and confidence is the key.
Mar 28 2015 9:39AM
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esotericjive
Posts: 1889 - Karma: 1,445
Chubz' advice is on point but I'd like to add something.
When you're skiing into the box just think " imma kill this box" attitude helps with commitment which is half the trouble learning new things anyway. Once you learn how its not scary at all, just becomes fun
Mar 28 2015 11:48AM
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Deepskier
Posts: 3267 - Karma: 4,818
Come in with confidence thinking you got this then pop and turn your head and shoulders 90 degrees(or practice popping and spinning on ground) (or just 50 50 on then turn with your hips and pedal woth your skis)once you have the rotation bend your knees and almost pump and push down and put your feet about shoulder width apart and distribute your wieght 60% on back foot 40% front foot and keep you balance steady and keep you body over the rail and your skis be sure NOT TO LOOK AT YOUR SKIS look at the end of the rail and almost reach for the end of the rail and lift your ski to pedal and turn your self (look into peadaling) or just extend your knees and jump (with 50 50 push up on each foot)and turn your hips and shoulders and head to spin land the trick. DONE
Mar 28 2015 12:32PM
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Hamlet
Posts: 205 - Karma: 1,308
just try some ride on boxes where you don't need to actually jump on to something
Mar 28 2015 12:43PM
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skiersupreme
Posts: 1549 - Karma: 4,872
jump and land at 90 degrees. dont try to butter it just land completely sideays. also, when you land keep more of your weight on your front foot. also, as wrong as this sounds, get more speed than you think. its easier to get caught up with less speed.
Mar 28 2015 1:48PM
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skitheweast
Posts: 75 - Karma: 29
Just think about landing sideways on the box. The 90 should be quick and small
Mar 28 2015 6:43PM
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frontswap
Posts: 194 - Karma: 312
Pause at 2:24. Even though it is on a rail, the wider your stance is the more balanced you are (unless you're doing the splits). For me it was all about learning to not lean back. Keep a wide stance and don't lean back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlVXmhPIeI8
Mar 28 2015 9:48PM
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Borchmore
Posts: 49 - Karma: 115
I literally just dialed in my boxes and flat rails today thanks to the help of some fellow park dudes, so I know where you're coming from. It's easiest to start on butter boxes (I think that's what the really wide ones are called), because then you only have to focus on balancing forward and back on the box (meaning: you probably won't slip off the side). As for hitting a normal box, approach it head on. Coming from the side will make you slip off the side. Make sure you have a decent amount of speed though; it's better to go too fast than too slow. It's good that you know 50s, try to pop and get some air off the lip and then hit a plain 50 50, this will teach you how to pop. As for turning, I don't get fully sideways on the rail, more like 70 or 80 degrees to the side. At first, maybe try turning slightly sideways, then more and more until you're truly sliding.

When on the box, keep your feet apart. It's really easy to lose your footing if your feet are really close together. My feet are usually a bit wider than my shoulders. Focus on the end of the box, don't try to jump off halfway through. Leaving the box is kind of hard to explain, you just need to get a feel for turning back. Then when you land, keep your knees bent.

Take that with a grain of salt though, because I'm still a jabroni gaper
Mar 28 2015 10:19PM
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BianKarrett
Posts: 360 - Karma: 2,106
Speed is Key
Mar 29 2015 12:41AM
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bquick222
Posts: 124 - Karma: 363
I for one cannot believe that basically every reply to OP has been positive and helpful. Never thought i would see the day NS.
Mar 29 2015 3:19AM
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Borchmore
Posts: 49 - Karma: 115
bquick222I for one cannot believe that basically every reply to OP has been positive and helpful. Never thought i would see the day NS.


Shut up loser
Mar 29 2015 11:11AM
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Mingg
Posts: 13936 - Karma: 48,465
I learned how to slide boxes sideways by 50-50ing and doing like small shifties to kinda get the feel of being sideways without popping on sideways yet. Once I was comfortable being able to go sideways that way, I started to hop on sideways. Maybe doing that could help you?

Everything else has already been said about popping 90 and turning with your shoulders, but looking at the end with your head, but the weight distribution thing is soo important. To a beginner, a real 50-50 stance feels more like 70% on your front foot, and 30 on your back. Trust me, you really need to exaggerate that feeling of being forward. Other wise you will slip out which doesn't feel too good. You got it though!! Its all in your head and you'll get it!
Mar 29 2015 11:59AM
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CHORIZO
Posts: 2003 - Karma: 10,039
Idk why but i never learned on boxes. I started on my friends pvc rail and then would do one of those fatty boom boom barrels on the mountain. I really liked learning on the fatty boom boom
Mar 29 2015 2:30PM
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Bloom.
Posts: 3533 - Karma: 13,167
Keep taking those falls! I remember first learning rails. I had bruised hips for about an entire season. There's really no way to learn other than just going for it and taking the falls. One day you'll go to hit the box/rail and it you'll find that its easy and your comfortable doing it. Keep practicing
Mar 29 2015 2:50PM
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Pac2
Posts: 794 - Karma: 2,859
Really just be confident about it, jump up and turn your feet and shoulders 90 degrees and keep your head looking at the end of the rail, but honestly if the rail you are trying is a ride on or the box which im assuming it is you really don't have to jump that high. Coming in straight on I set my feet about shoulder width apart almost like you see people do when they go up for a spin or something but I set them a littler closer together with the rail/box running right between them hop up a little and turn my feet onto the feature. Just keep trying and really commit to it because the more you commit the more sideways you'll probably get. And always look at the end of the rail that is the key to sliding features
Mar 29 2015 4:27PM
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michael.hsu.5059
Posts: 37 - Karma: 284
Oh man you guys are awesome thanks for all the tips! One tip I keep seeing is to turn with your shoulders. Not hips?

I understand the part about keeping my gaze on the end of the box the whole time (little to know head turning), but I see many people really not turning with their shoulders much at all. Most of them really just turn their hips. And the shoulders kinda just follow a bit because of the motion of the hips turning. I assume this is one of those bad habits?

Anyway I'm heading to Big White (wooo Canada!) this weekend and I'll try these out and report back!

Cheers!
Mar 29 2015 6:16PM
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Chubz.
Posts: 13918 - Karma: 25,656
michael.hsu.5059Oh man you guys are awesome thanks for all the tips! One tip I keep seeing is to turn with your shoulders. Not hips?

I understand the part about keeping my gaze on the end of the box the whole time (little to know head turning), but I see many people really not turning with their shoulders much at all. Most of them really just turn their hips. And the shoulders kinda just follow a bit because of the motion of the hips turning. I assume this is one of those bad habits?

Anyway I'm heading to Big White (wooo Canada!) this weekend and I'll try these out and report back!

Cheers!


good luck buddy
Mar 29 2015 8:48PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13936 - Karma: 48,465
michael.hsu.5059Oh man you guys are awesome thanks for all the tips! One tip I keep seeing is to turn with your shoulders. Not hips?

I understand the part about keeping my gaze on the end of the box the whole time (little to know head turning), but I see many people really not turning with their shoulders much at all. Most of them really just turn their hips. And the shoulders kinda just follow a bit because of the motion of the hips turning. I assume this is one of those bad habits?

Anyway I'm heading to Big White (wooo Canada!) this weekend and I'll try these out and report back!

Cheers!


Your body will follow your head/shoulders. However you should keep your head on the end of the box(and rails when you get there) because you go where you look pretty much. So for sliding a box, you should turn your full body(hips and shoulders) but keep your head at the end of the box!

As you get more comfortable, you are able to grind with your shoulders more open(or at least I was). I find that now if I rotate 90 using my shoulders I just come around to switch. But when I was learning I had to rotate my with my shoulders as well to just stay 90 and come out forward. It's something you'll get a feel for when you do it more! Not really right nor wrong but when you're learning it is good to get in that habit.

I hope that clarifies what you were asking!
Mar 29 2015 9:39PM
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The.Fish
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 4,985
I just learned sliding boxes this year. I found that my park had normal boxes and also tboxes. I was always trying to slide tboxes sideways and kept slipping out backwards when still leaning forward. I then found a thin normal box and slid 5 in a row sideways with the same weight balance. I asked my friend who is better than me why i only slip out on t boxes, he told me he would watch me my next run on the t box. I slid it normal and didn't fall. Idk what i changed but skiing with people better than you helps. I still havent tried thin rails yet after i took a bad fall on one the week after i learned boxes. Any tips for me with that???
Mar 29 2015 10:44PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13936 - Karma: 48,465
cjt121099I just learned sliding boxes this year. I found that my park had normal boxes and also tboxes. I was always trying to slide tboxes sideways and kept slipping out backwards when still leaning forward. I then found a thin normal box and slid 5 in a row sideways with the same weight balance. I asked my friend who is better than me why i only slip out on t boxes, he told me he would watch me my next run on the t box. I slid it normal and didn't fall. Idk what i changed but skiing with people better than you helps. I still havent tried thin rails yet after i took a bad fall on one the week after i learned boxes. Any tips for me with that???


what is a tbox?
Mar 29 2015 10:54PM
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peterspringer10
Posts: 153 - Karma: 439
For starting rails, just make sure you keep your stance about shoulder width or a little more. Having your feet close together is a common mistake starting out and I know I did myself. The easiest ones to start on are just short 4 inch wide flat rails and then just work your way up from there.
Mar 30 2015 7:51AM
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Chuch
Posts: 237 - Karma: 397
bquick222I for one cannot believe that basically every reply to OP has been positive and helpful. Never thought i would see the day NS.


I was scrolling looking for the hate, and then the only hate was in response to this...
Keep working hard OP, it takes practice and taking some hits
Mar 30 2015 8:18AM
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Stadtski
Posts: 972 - Karma: 3,349
when learning to slide sideways I found it easier to go on straight, then twist so I am sideways.
Mar 30 2015 8:30AM
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FreedGucci
Posts: 454 - Karma: 3,192
Don't over think it, you're literally sliding like you would if you were trying to slide on a patch of ice on the sidewalk or something
Mar 30 2015 9:29AM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
michael.hsu.5059Oh man you guys are awesome thanks for all the tips! One tip I keep seeing is to turn with your shoulders. Not hips?

I understand the part about keeping my gaze on the end of the box the whole time (little to know head turning), but I see many people really not turning with their shoulders much at all. Most of them really just turn their hips. And the shoulders kinda just follow a bit because of the motion of the hips turning. I assume this is one of those bad habits?

Anyway I'm heading to Big White (wooo Canada!) this weekend and I'll try these out and report back!

Cheers!


Dude....you're getting wayyyy too bogged down by mechanics and tips and tricks. Sliding a box doesn't really require ANY technique. It requires trying it a few dozen times and letting your body and athleticism do the work. If you look where you want to go and assume it'll work out, your body will naturally do the micro-adjustments balance wise to get there.

I guarantee you're going too slow. If you go faster, commit to really trying regardless of what the consequence might be (a bruised hip? big fucking deal), and don't watch your feet or look off to the side of the feature, you'll make it happen. If you're sliding out and ending up on your "uphill" hip or butt cheek, it's because you're intimidated and it feels safer to lean back away from the direction of travel just like people skiing steep terrain that is intimidating. Weight your front foot, keep your bases flattish, and wala.

Half the time people ask for advice or tips, no amount of tips or suggestions will help because it's so much more about confidence and mentality.
Mar 30 2015 10:36AM
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brett_fisher
Posts: 2417 - Karma: 10,493
First find out if you want to slid right foot forward or left foot forward after that just ride in pop 90 and keep you're skis flat on the box and look at the end of the box or rail.
Mar 30 2015 11:53AM
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