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March, 2024

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Teen suicides?

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YourMomsCouch
Posts: 311 - Karma: 4,039
So I just found out that in my hometown there were two violent teen suicides within just two days of each other. A girl who was the ex chief of police's daughter shot herself in the head while her family was home, and another unidentified kid jumped in front of an oncoming train. Im not too sure if these are both suicides, seeing as the town has a huge gang problem, but either way they're both pretty messed up ways to go. Share your thoughts ns
Mar 15 2014 9:02AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
could not disagree more. Your view is illogical and was formed purely through convenience.
Mar 16 2014 9:47PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Why is it illogical? You say a lot of times even people suffering from clinical depression can recover, which is true, but there are other times they can't recover, or they recover briefly before falling back into depression. In a case like that, is their pain still temporary? Or permanent? Should they continue living in pain from their depression or fear of their depression coming back because someone somewhere decided that no matter what suicide is more selfish than people wanting someone to stay alive so they don't have to deal with the pain that person's death would cause them?

Could people who commit suicide eventually have recovered from whatever they are suffering from in many cases? Yes. Could people people who commit suicide never have recovered from whatever they are suffering from in many cases. Yes. I don't want to generalize here, so I'm not going to say suicide is always, inherently more selfish than people wanting potential suicides to stay alive. All I'm trying to do is point out that both sides are selfish in a sense, and that people should try and be aware of that.
Mar 16 2014 10:02PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
Not if he had a nice insurance policy. :)
Mar 16 2014 11:36PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4748 - Karma: -565
Do you hate other animals who are carnivores and don't eat only veg?

You are clearly a hypocrite if you don't think a hungry lion or a wolf is a piece of shit and absolute scum right? By your fucked up logic shouldn't tigers in the wild be counseled and convinced to not eat other animals as well? If humans can't eat other animals why should animals be able to eat other animals?


Id honestly like to know why only hate people who eat animals and not animals who eat animals.





You know we live in a militaristic corporate police society where capitalist and corporate values are all that matters to many/most. Read that kids post about how he felt he shamed his family for only getting into Washington State. That is a fucked up environment to be in, one I am not foreign too either growing up in a similar environment. Some people can only take being on the losing side of life so much. I got into a dank school despite being a C student. It was a real fuck you to all those conformist bitch motherfuckers in my town who actually tried in HS to see that I went somewhere better then them even though I got drunk and high most days.

But honestly a teen who kills themselves and doesn't even take a crack at being an adult and experiencing adulthood and having a life that doesn't revolve around school and being brainwashed with corporate militaristic propoganda and values from teachers is a piece of shit. It means you just didnt try. It means you can't even wait 2 fucking years for high school to end. And while the person who kills themselves is primarily responsible for doing so a lot of the blame needs to fall on those around them who made them feel that way. I can understand someone 30 or older who just feels they have no way out, are one of lifes losers, and really have no other option or escape from wage slavery and not being able to support themselves killling themselves but not a fucking teenager.

We live in a punitive society. The HS I went to if you were late more than 5 times in a semester you failed the course. If they tried to pull that bullshit in the black inner city schools I taught in the entire school would flunk out. So even in a town that was supposedly liberal I grew up knowing kids who got sent to DYS for failing weed tests and got raped in jail, and people who couldn't get HS diplomas becuase they arrived late too many times. School for many is just something that grooms our population into being good little sheep who conform to corporate militaristic values and don't question anything. And if your not popular and have no friends it will suck even more. And you have to wake up so fucking early for HS because those nerdy ass teachers are up at 5am if they cared about kids well being HS would start later than elementary school. But it doesn't.
Mar 17 2014 1:18AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
a hungry lion or wolf does not eat animals from places like this

Click for larger image
Click for larger image

lions and wolves and all of the other land predators combined are are not eating even close to the same amount of animals as humans do.

Click for larger image

Producing animals in these quantities is completely unsustainable. Animal agriculture is one of the top causes of greenhouse gas emissions and deforestation.

Lions and wolves do not have the technology to grow large amounts of nutrient-rich plant based foods. They also do not understand nutritional science, and don't know what nutrients are required for them to live healthily.

Lions are obligate carnivores, and need meat to live healthily. Wolves are non-obligate carnivores, and can live healthily on plant-based proteins, if they had access to them, which they don't. Humans are omnivores, but physiologically much closer to herbivores than carnivores. A vegan diet is closer to what our bodies are designed to eat than the average western diet (meat every day). Wolves and lions do no suffer from high cholesterol, heart disease, colon cancer, prostate cancer, etc like people do. All of these diseases are linked to meat and dairy consumption.

To a wolf or a lion, eating meat is required for their survival. For humans, eating meat is a luxury that unnecessarily harms innocent animals, global ecosystems and our bodies.
Mar 17 2014 2:42AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
when you are in that spot, death is as comforting as a warm bed on a cold night. It doesnt take balls to choose that.

It doesnt take balls to choose the path of least resistance. It takes balls to do the uncomfortable thing, the scary thing.

Mar 17 2014 2:47AM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
Yes you are right but it doesn't mean that suicide isn't a selfish act even if 'allowing' someone to feel the pain of deep depression is also selfish
Mar 17 2014 7:41AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
this argument is really bad. people like you normally dont put humans on one level with animals. so why would you here? just for the sake of an argument?

nature is cruel, yes. but animals cannot distinguish between right or wrong, they just do what they have to do to survive. humans, especially those responsible for the "excess meat production" do not need meat to survive. we could use more efficient and ethically preferable ways to feed the world, yet simple and unimportant things like "i like meat because i am a man" are in the way of it.

i love animals as much as the next guy, however i would have 0 problem (and i think most vegans/vegetarians would agree to SOME extent) if all animals used for "food production" would be kept in nice, large paddocks and killed without pain. additionally, the supply should also be smaller, so eating meat is something special, like it always has been up until the western countries became TOO rich.

the next argument is the inefficiency. producing meat is a lot more inefficient than for example rice or so. you need more water, produce more methane and so on and so on.



this thread really went off topic fast haha

Mar 17 2014 7:56AM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
sorry didnt read above, fucking vegan thread bullshit
Mar 17 2014 8:32AM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
rather than face life itself? no its a way out
Mar 17 2014 8:32AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
And unless you've felt that depressed before you have no idea what that feels like..
Mar 17 2014 8:58AM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
so you're saying its not a way out?
Mar 17 2014 11:27AM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
I'm gonna be straight up and say this is one of the biggest problems with this issue. This is the reason people kill themselves, they have this misconception that nobody understands what they are going through apart from them. They think they cannot relate to anybody about their problems because they are a special case and even their best friends and family cannot help them. One of the most amazing things about being human is the ability to empathise with those around us. Sure I cannot say exactly what is going through your head but I can be about 90% if you talk and open up to me.

It is not ballsy to kill yourself. What is ballsy is to have the faith in other people that they can understand what you are going through and talk to them with your problems
Mar 17 2014 12:18PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51257 - Karma: 157,315
Honestly I would love to believe that but it's kind of bullshit.

First people being understanding does not mean you aren't going to be depressed. Then, a lot of people are self centered assholes. There are a ton of great caring people out there. There are also a ton of assholes. People that wouldn't give a shit about the people around them until maybe somebody commits suicide, post a facebook about how distraught they are and how people need to know that they care about them, then go back to being an asshole the next day.

Also people can try and open up to people and be met by asshole "friends" asshole counselors and just say fuck it. It's easy to look back and say "We would have helped them if they had known! They should have come to us". But at the time some of those people could be completely cold and not even care to give 1 second of their time to helping them.

There are some really amazing people out there that would give anything to help the people around them. Unfortunately they are a minority by far. Too many self centered assholes these days. Everyone has a massively enlarged sense of entitlement. The world owes me everything so fuck anyone who get's in my way. That's not as much directed at the issue of suicide as that people should blindly have faith in people. I'd love for people in general to get to that point where other peoples interests even came close to mattering as much as their own. We're a long long way off of that though.
Mar 17 2014 12:42PM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
that doesn't mean that kids don't kill themselves despite having loving parents and caring friends, i reckon that there are very few suicide cases where they have had no one to help them, it seems the kind of people who commit suicide are very delusional which is sad because they are throwing their life away out of stupidity
Mar 17 2014 12:48PM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
and people will listen if you say to them 'i have a real problem i am considering suicide', i think even most strangers will stop and listen
Mar 17 2014 12:50PM
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willyg0808
Posts: 4231 - Karma: 1,364
One of my best friends Luke killed himself a few weeks ago. It's so fucked up and I can't even begin to describe how shitty it is to go through it, see your friends in pain, have conversations with the parents, etc. He showed no signs of suicide as he was a happy go lucky kid, not depressed, and stable in school with plenty of friends. Suicide doesn't have to be rational, as it wasn't for Luke. Deep thoughts can fuck with your sense of reality and no one can help stop it.
Mar 17 2014 1:52PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
Easy for the non depressed person to say. They are not thinking as rationally as you are right now.
Mar 17 2014 2:40PM
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Wallisch_pl
Posts: 5260 - Karma: 1,022
i realize your concerns, but it's best to not give a shit. He also has a point, where animals will only eat to stay alive, not if they have a surplus, where as it's like fucking 65% of americans are overweight, like holy fuck
Mar 17 2014 2:57PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
I suppose depression can be considered a kind of delusion, yeah.
Mar 17 2014 3:00PM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728

but livestock is the answer to deforestation?

Mar 17 2014 5:42PM
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--ski--
Posts: 1670 - Karma: 817
They would if they could.
Mar 17 2014 6:01PM
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werd.
Posts: 967 - Karma: 4,330
You are so fucking dumb. Why the fuck would you have such a strong opinion on a topic you know absolutely nothing about?
Mar 17 2014 6:50PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
just because it is in a ted talk does not mean it is true...
Mar 17 2014 8:02PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
hence the reason I apologized and said I know how annoying it is for people to say uninformed shit...

I didn't know that most people who kill themselves have actual diseases. Also I had no idea how frequency suicides occur. The media does not talk about suicides. murders and other violence will be all over the place, they talk about it all the time, but no one even mentions when suicides happen, not even public ones. So how was I supposed to know how big of a problem it is? I dunno how strong my opinion was though. I never said much more than "i don't give a fuck". That's more nihilistic than anything.
Mar 17 2014 8:25PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
its a disease that is easily treatable in the vast majority of cases. Suicides attributed to bullying get big play in the media now days because we have become a pansy-ass society.

Here's some quick facts from the World Health Organization:

In the last 45 years suicide rates have increased by 60% worldwide. Suicide is now among the three leading causes of death among those aged 15-44 (male and female). Suicide attempts are up to 20 times more frequent than completed suicides.
Although suicide rates have traditionally been highest amongst elderly males, rates among young people have been increasing to such an extent that they are now the group at highest risk in a third of all countries.
Mental health disorders (particularly depression and substance abuse) are associated with more than 90% of all cases of suicide.
However, suicide results from many complex sociocultural factors and is more likely to occur during periods of socioeconomic, family and individual crisis (e.g. loss of a loved one, unemployment, sexual orientation, difficulties with developing one's identity, disassociation from one's community or other social/belief group, and honour).
Mar 17 2014 8:58PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4748 - Karma: -565
You know, the suicude attempts being up 20 times shows that most of the successful suicides were probably not people who wanted to die and just wanted attention.

I guess Im someone who always has a plan so if you don't have a plan and have said problems what do you do?

Ive not been close to actually killing myself but Ive thought about it and its not cause I want to die its cause I want to punish the people who want to destroy me. But then I realized fuck them they'd acutally be happy.


Im a happier person now that I accepted the fact that those close to me and my family and relatives and such all hate me and are out to destroy me. I just got over it. But you know what....if I still had to see a snake cock sucker boss every day I don't know if I'd get over severe problems and the hatred from my relatives. I moved on from my issues but Im having success being self employed so that makes it easier.

An uncle cost me a house in a rich Boston suburb with a ocean view for 220k cause he lived 5 doors down and would ahve been jealous of me or not wanted me there. This scumbag flipped out and convinced my mom I'd end up getting into drugs or something and she decided to not cosign the mortgage. And I lost another ocean view 2 fam house a year earlier for the same price closer to the city because the fucking realtor was jewish and didn't want to work yom kippour and an offer got accepted that day. So now Im homeless and live in casinos in Reno. Its 2014 and Boston is more expensive than NYC these days. Boom thats it I lose if I want to go back home I have to pay 1700 a month to rent an acceptable dwelling where as 2 years ago places like that were 1100-1200.

These relatives tell me to lay off the drugs when I just smoke weed and act like I do drugs because I puff. And then I hear there children who are like 19 talking about needing a xanax every time they fly. Thats my environment. And its all jealousy cause Im smarter than them and their kids. On my small American side of my family NOONE has gone to a school half as good as me but I get treated like a black sheep because I don't want a normal job and like gambling professionally and ticket scalping. Its just ridiculous. All while these are supposedly liberal Obama voting people who work for military contractors (Lockheed and stuff.) So they build bombs and contribute to the destruction of our society via the corporate war machine but I'm an asshole because I make money off someone who didn't buy tickets to a sold out game the second they went on sale but rather wants to go to a game that has been sold out for 2 months a week before the event when thousands of people want to go despite it being sold out. Or joining the marines. Yeah Im the asshole people who join the army because they are too lazy to work at walmart and mcdonalds and want to kill people are good....
Mar 17 2014 9:15PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
how many doobies deep are you right now?
Mar 17 2014 9:47PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4748 - Karma: -565
None man I don't smoke weed this week its march madness.

Look I know people have worse problems than me. I just explained why I can undertand people having suicidal thoughts. Mine only came from wanting to make a point to the fucking assholes who were supposed to care about me being out to ruin me. The only suicidal thoughts I've ever had have been to get revenge on relatives who hate me. But it would just cheep them up.

People who are supposed to care about me and are relatives of mine went out of their way to fuck up my life and honestly consider me a criminal and drug addict cause I smoke pot and sell tickets on stubhub.

It took a lot of strength to not fight it and not care and just accept the inevitable hate. Thats how I solved my mental issues just accept that people hate you and want to see you fail.
Mar 17 2014 10:11PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
Nobody is gonna read this babble
Mar 18 2014 9:34AM
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