Ask a Mormon

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Imagine you did not grow up learning about your Religion.

Would you believe the story if I made a thread about it? No seriously, how can faith justify magic? A religion that is younger than the USA has the answers to why we're here and how we got here. How does that make sense?

Jan 12 2014 12:34AM

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Insane

Great question. They have (as of about a month ago) https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng it is a bit long but here is the basic principle of the article. It is my understanding that this is the first of more articles and general conference talks to come where they will further emphasize this point.

"Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form."

Jan 12 2014 12:35AM

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Aidan-G

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Do you really believe that Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israelites who killed Jesus and are thus cursed to have "red" skin because they have been stained by his blood?

Jan 12 2014 12:38AM

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The most simple (and best) explanation is that it makes me happy. By this stage in my life, (I'm 20) I'm able to make my own decisions and this is honestly the lifestyle I want. I've reflected on it quite a bit and strictly speaking for me, I would choose to be mormon even if it wasn't true, which may sound crazy but if it makes you happy it makes you happy. All I can say on the matter.

Jan 12 2014 12:40AM

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FuckAllOfYou

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This pisses me the hell off.

1st. Why was it even an issue in the first place? It's SKIN COLOR

2nd. Why the hell did it take so long for them to realize their bigot ways?

This why I hate religion. This counter intuitive - ness... it makes me sick.

I'm sorry. I don't mean disrespect to you personally, but I dislike the mormon religion, among others.

Jan 12 2014 12:41AM

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In particular, Mormons believe that angels such as Peter, James, John, and John the Baptist appeared to Joseph Smith and others and bestowed various Priesthood authorities on them. - wiki

So once upon a time, a man named Louiemirags had a conversation with God, and God said, give him all the 18 yr virgins with big tits. God told Louie he was a boss and Louie has all the skills to compete in Sochi.

Was that believable enough? ya gotta have faith, who needs proof?

Jan 12 2014 12:41AM

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Insane

No, LDS theology says that all animals are going to be exalted and are going to the celestial kingdom (heaven). Interestingly, LDS theology doesn't really believe in hell. There is a place called "outer darkness" but you can't get there. Instead, there are three levels of heaven and each one is increasingly better. Mormonism is soft universalism in that everyone can achieve eternal life regardless of choices or beliefs here on earth.

Jan 12 2014 12:45AM

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1440ski

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I believe it was an issue because it was an issue all throughout America at the time of the church's founding. It was not just an issue with the LDS church. While it pisses me off too, it was a problem that all of America was dealing with.

Jan 12 2014 12:45AM

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Aidan-G

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I would like to see where it says that because through my research I remember there being punishment not heaven for all

Jan 12 2014 12:47AM

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1440ski

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No we do not believe that the Native Americans killed Jesus.

Jan 12 2014 12:47AM

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Aidan-G

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Links

Jan 12 2014 12:48AM

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I have grown up in Utah so I guess I have to be haha? But I guess I'm a "progressive" mormon? i.e. I'm aware of all the arguments, I support marriage equality, have a more non-literal belief in things than most mormons are comfortable with. Ask a more specific question and you'll see if I fit your definition!

Jan 12 2014 12:49AM

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bfulmer

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Jan 12 2014 12:49AM

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Insane

That's a good question that I've thought about before. It's difficult to answer but I'll answer it honestly, I don't think I would believe it if I had come from whatever background you come from. However, being a part of it, it has made me happy and I can't deny that, it's not as if I'm forcing myself to be a part of it so I'm content.

Jan 12 2014 12:53AM

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Insane

[IMG]lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/images/gospel-library/manual/34591/34591_000_000_01-planOfSalvation.gif[/IMG]

"Where will you go when your life on earth is over? You will go to a spirit world, where you will be loved. You will wait there until the time ofresurrection and judgment. Jesus is the Savior and has paid for all our sins. If you have turned eight years old and become accountable, have faith, and have repented and been baptized, you will be forgiven for your sins. In heaven are three separate kingdoms, or places of glory—the telestial (lowest), the terrestrial (middle), and the celestial (highest) kingdoms. If you have kept the commandments in a valiant way, you will go to the celestial kingdom to enjoy eternal life with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ."

These were both taken from lds.org. If you're wondering what it takes to get to outer darkness, you have to "deny the holy ghost". However, what that entails is literally seeing a vision of Jesus Christ or God to the point of knowing they exist and still denying them. Trust me, you can't get to hell.

Jan 12 2014 1:01AM

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CBROOKS

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I lived in salt lake for 8 months, and at the time worked at an ad agency that was believe it or not myself and 30 other people, all of which who were mormon. I was the only non LDS person in the place, that being said I was treated very well and rarely felt alienated.

The one thing that bugged me more than anything else are the missions. Each and every person in my office believed that their mission did great things for them, that they spread a good thing, despite the fact that they acknowledged that 75% of the time a door was being shut in their face and 95% of the time whoever was answering was bothered by their being there. They take pride in the fact that third world countries have much, much higher conversion rates than industrialized nations.

How do you feel about this? How does one justify traveling somewhere for two years strictly to try and walk around spreading their belief onto others in a rather intrusive way? Do you ever feel that people are being taken advantage of?

Outside of that - do you worry about the church leadership? I knew a few people who worked for both the ensign (the LDS magazine) and directly for the church and they had some serious horror stories to tell. Mind you, these were active, practicing mormons who continued to practice afterwards. And speaking to that, do you feel their is some amount of blindness to other perspectives within your religion?

sorry for the bomb! I got a lot of questions having been surrounded by that culture for a good amount of time.

Jan 12 2014 1:07AM

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Is it just me or does the Christian faith keep their gig going via guilt. That is what it is all about. Making people feel bad about questioning their faith. Then, the religious nuts make it so religion is the one thing you cannot question somebody about. Debating on religion is socially wrong because the Church officials are afraid of the population getting the truth.

Jan 12 2014 1:14AM

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Bill.Nye

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Do you accept the evidence that humans are evolved primates that share a (relatively) recent common ancestor with chimps, baboons, orangutans, and gorillas and more distantly share an ancestor with all life on earth?

Do you believe that Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israelites?

How old do you think the earth is?

How old do you think the universe is, if it has an "age"?

Do you agree with your churches practice of baptisms for the dead, including many jews who died in the holocaust?

How many wives do you think Joseph Smith had?

Do you find it problematic that the founder of your church had a record as a con man?

Do you support "ex-gay" therapies?

Do you support a woman's right to access an abortion? Contraceptive?

What about mormonism "makes you happy?" Do you think the things that make you happy are inherently mormon, or only a consequence of the additional social adhesion provided by religious institutions?

What's your favorite dessert?

Jan 12 2014 1:16AM

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Change Jesus Christ to a catchy name like Harry potter and you have a NY times Fiction Bestseller.

I apologize but I was raised a strict Catholic and the harder religion is pushed on you, the harder you rebel if/when it comes time...

My next question is: How can you justify the Church changing your beliefs? Ex. you were talking about how they changed the rules for blacks or with animals going to heaven. So, people alive today make the rules for heaven and religion? Or are they based on Joe's findings???? Reminds me of the Catholic church changing what they teach about purgatory or when they used to sell indulanges (spelled wrong? get out of hell free coins). How can they just change "God's word" like that??

Jan 12 2014 1:22AM

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Insane

That's really a mix of partially correct premises and untrue conjectures. In the Book of Mormon, the inhabitants of the Americas (the Nephites and the Lamanites) do not kill Jesus, but rather, he appears to them and gives them a near equivalent to the sermon on the mount found in Matthew.

As for the native american issue, DNA evidence has found that they are not of Israelite origin. Many scholars have proposed a "limited geography" theory stating that these Israelite tribes were a small subset of the population and since the majority of them go extinct in the Book of Mormon, their genes are not passed on. Others believe that we are non-literal descendents of the lost tribes of Israel.

Lastly, the race issue in the Book of Mormon, the text does depict the Lamanites as being struck with a curse, (2 Nephi 12:23) and it is racially charged. If you examine it from the perspective of literature, the text uses many different techniques to highlight the differences between the Nephites and the Lamanites. The Book of Mormon is using these differences to teach people. I believe Joseph Smith had a different vision for the church than how it turned out. While he was alive he ordained blacks to the priesthood (see Elijah Abel) and arguably ordained women to the priesthood. However, his premature martyrdom left the church in a succession crisis and the successor Brigham Young instituted the ban on priesthood for blacks.

Jan 12 2014 1:28AM

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c4t_l0ver

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This is so fucked up

Jan 12 2014 1:32AM

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1440ski

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From the Book of Mormon

1 Nephi 19:13

13 And as for those who are at Jerusalem, saith the prophet, they shall be ascourged by all people, because they crucify the God of Israel, and turn their hearts aside, rejecting signs and wonders, and the power and glory of the God of Israel.

So yes we believe he was crucified at Jerusalem by the same way the majority of Christians do.

Jan 12 2014 1:35AM

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Have to stop you right there. You go from Jesus appearing and giving a sermon to DNA evidence. Magic to science. Which is it going to be? How can a religion younger than our government have answers to 1000+ yr old questions (with no science)?

Jan 12 2014 1:38AM

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eheath

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Have you ever considered that your entire belief system is based of the lies of a business man? Have you ever considered the Mormon church only exists for one purpose and that is to make tax free money?

BTW you can have good morals and ethics without being religious.

Jan 12 2014 1:39AM

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What is this "we" shit? Speak for your own beliefs. Have your own thoughts. Anybody can google what the book says, does that mean you have to believe it?

Jan 12 2014 1:41AM

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Insane

I hear that come up a lot from my non-member friends so you're definitely not alone. I have a lot of friends that are on missions and friends that have come back. Going on a mission does do great things for you personally, you usually learn a new language and you experience a new culture/country, you learn to work hard, budget your time, and study. As for spreading the gospel to others, all I can say is that from the inside I have witnessed first hand too many lives impacted in a positive way to accept that it is evil to do missionary work. I understand that many people are not interested and are inconvenienced but missionaries DO NOT try and hard sell anybody. A simple "no thank you" and they're gone. If you guys could do like a ride along and see the positive things it brings to people's lives your perception would shift at least a little bit. Missionaries do a ton of service and help people in real ways whether the church is true or not.

I don't worry too much about church leadership. My life choices/happiness/beliefs are not really tied to the institution of the church. I disagree with them on some things and that doesn't bother me honestly. There is a lot of blindness among members and I acknowledge 100% that we need to do a much better job of loving others and showing compassion and empathy!

Jan 12 2014 1:45AM

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Insane

I'm fully aware it could be one big lie. I believe but I still have what I would call a healthy amount of agnosticism. However, I think you view the institutional church as being more influential on my life than it is. My beliefs don't depend on the current church. Obviously you can have morals without religion! I would never argue against it, but if I'm happy with my beliefs, why would I change?

Jan 12 2014 1:51AM

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BackseatBrah

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Why do you actually believe you'll get your own planet when you die?

Jan 12 2014 1:59AM

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eheath

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News flash, religious books like the bible/book of mormon aren't "real" and neither are the religions themselves. Most people start churches to make untaxed money, some like to help people out.

Religion is a very easy to way to teach morals and ethics and most people in the generation before us learned from religion and then force it on their children, like their parents did to them, and their parents did to them, etc.

Religion is like a framework to teach people how to be a good person and people are starting to realize churches and organizations are taking advantage of them and leaving their traditional practices.

Honestly, you can believe what you want, but I think basing your whole life off of lies and corruption of religion is a poor idea.

Jan 12 2014 2:02AM

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Insane

I was hoping to hear from you (seriously).

1. No, I believe it's a non-literal symbol and it's also not central to my beliefs.

2. 4+ Billion years old

3. 4+ billion years old, there is nothing in mormonism that says it's either science or our beliefs. The 6,000 years old stuff that people talk about stems from a non in-depth reading of the bible. “Mormonism is truth. … The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or … being … prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men.” -Joseph Smith

4. The baptisms of the jews without permission was a mistake and we have apologized and taken the necessary steps to repair the damage as far as we can.

5. Joseph Smith had at least 18, probably closer to 30 wives, still up for debate.

6. I don't, but if you would refer to which specific trial he was found guilty I could better answer this question.

7. No, God is a god of love and mercy and we need to be much, much better at loving everyone.

8. I support woman's rights and gay marriage, I don't want to impose my beliefs on others.

9. No specific thing makes me happy, the general lifestyle does, everything put together. I have accepted the fact that it could fully be a consequence of the social adhesion or various other things however I don't feel I would be happy making different choices, so I dont.

10. I like red, white, and blue, rocket popsicles.

Jan 12 2014 2:03AM

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Insane

I just don't see the dichotomy you see. I believe in every part of science and I allow for the possibility of other things to have happened. It's not like "choose evolution or religion!" I believe in science and the observable world but I don't think they negate the existence of God.

Jan 12 2014 2:07AM

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Insane

For you personally, it sounds like it would be and I'm fine with that. For me, I don't want to make the choices others do and I'm happy living how I am, so it doesn't strike me as a poor idea. Everyone should focus on doing what makes them happy in this life because no one knows what happens when we die.

Jan 12 2014 2:11AM

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BackseatBrah

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When you die, you fucking die. There is no magical place that you go to, you fucking die. Most people are afraid of death which is why religion is so successful. People are scared into believing in a god so they can go to some magical place when they die, but think about it for a second... Does that make any sense??? Think about what we know about the universe... Where does that magical place fit in? It doesn't. I can respect that people follow religion because of the morals and community, but the heaven story is a bunch of shit.

Jan 12 2014 2:24AM

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last_tango

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Your energy goes on. Energy can not be created nor destroyed.

From what the father in law who has been pronounced dead four time has experienced that his energy went to a big white ball being with other energy going to the white ball of energy. He felt incredibly blissful but couldn't understand it all. Then he got sent back to earth but he believes he was sent back for a purpose but dose not know that purpose at all. He was not religious before and is not religious now.

Biggest things he said to follow were, if I were hungry would you feed me, if I needed shelter would you give me shelter, if I were sick would you heal me.

I believed in those thing before he said that but that's important up there he said.

I'm not religious but something is going on that I don't know about and I'm probably better off that way.

Jan 12 2014 2:41AM

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Crazy Fool

Why would you have such a strong stance on something that is so intensely bleak and sad?

Jan 12 2014 2:46AM

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No Life

There are cultures that celebrate life, instead of mourning death. If someone lives to old age, it doesn't have to be sad when they die. You can miss them, but celebrate the hopefully wonderful life they had. Being sad won't get them back.

Jan 12 2014 2:49AM

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yeahhh but most (if not all) of the cultures that celebrate someones life, believe in an afterlife, whether that be ancestors, underworld or heaven.

Jan 12 2014 2:56AM

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chicken

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because it's true as far as anyone knows.

Jan 12 2014 2:58AM

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Well, you can't really prove life after death, and you can't prove just die, so I'm not sure how someone could be so aggressive on something that is really depressing when you think about it.

Jan 12 2014 3:01AM

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chicken

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well people are pretty aggressive about their (stupid) religious beliefs as well. there is absolutely no evidence for life after death, and our understanding of the brain, which is getting better all the time, would lead us to believe that we experience nothing after death. sure it can't be proven, but it is much more likely than us going to some magical fairy tale place.

what i think is depressing is how people waste their lives believing in religion, instead of living to their full potential because they realize it's the only time they will ever have.

Jan 12 2014 3:08AM

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Maybe, idk... All I can say is I rather celebrate than mourn and I don't believe in afterlife.

Jan 12 2014 3:09AM

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