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The Official: "What is wrong with my boots?" Thread

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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
This thread should be seen as an accompaniment to the "How To Buy Ski Boots" thread, more specifically aimed at solving a problem with your existing ski boots. Rather than clog up Gear Talk with countless repeating threads, please dump your boot-fitting related questions here and we will do our best to help you out.

Remember, nothing is a substitute for going to a real boot-fitter; they can see your foot, we can't. So if you can't get to a boot-fitter, or are frustrated with your current one, we can help point you in the right direction. Try to be as descriptive of your problem as possible and post pics if you can. The more information we get from you, the more successful we will hopefully be in helping you out.

Ready, set, go.


Dec 14 2013 2:45PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Adding to what Tom and AJizzle have already mentioned, you should think of it like a recipe of sorts: it's your foot + footbed + available volume of the shell. The right combination is the one that allows all of these variables to work together. So far, we know the potential footbed types + your shell, but we lack a working knowledge of your foot. This is what we lack but what the boot-fitter will assess and determine for you.
Feb 18 2014 12:21PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8633 - Karma: 32,527
Okay....well I will try the ones ajizzle suggested as a starting point. Like I said, this will hopefully just be used to hold me over till I can get to a boot fitter.
Feb 18 2014 9:45PM
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Park_Mho
Posts: 351 - Karma: 390
I have full tilt drop kicks and I had cramps in the arch part of my foot. To cope with this, I ended up purchasing some zapz footbeds. They felt so comfortable and I loved them instantly after I got them molded (only the arch part is moldable....I think?). After trying them out on the mountain, I began to notice an unbearable cramp on the outside of my foot (opposite of arch) and around my ankles even at the most loose boot setting. Should I wait to brake the liners in with the footbeds or should I get them heat molded with the footbeds in the liners (molded once, but without footbeds)
All help will be appreciated!
Feb 18 2014 9:51PM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
You should go to a bootfitter and have custom insoles made, then have him evaluate your foot in the shell.
Feb 19 2014 1:50AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Using footbeds isn't as simple as just tossing them in and skiing. Your foot needs to adjust to this new structure, even to a custom molded to your foot footbed. Plus a footbed repositions your foot and ankle in the boot. You need to wear any footbed and get used to it first. Second, your boot-fitter needs to evaluate your foot on the footbed in the shell.

It could be that (even if the footbed is right for your foot) you might need some adjustment to your liner and/or shell to get it to fit properly. Always get a footbed first and then adjust the boot around your foot with footbed.
Feb 19 2014 5:36AM
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Park_Mho
Posts: 351 - Karma: 390
Thank you very much for the help. I got my liners molded with the footbeds in them and they felt amazing!
Feb 19 2014 9:47PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Awesome! I know we sound like broken records a lot by always saying "get a footbed" but it is for a good reason- they really really make a difference!
Feb 20 2014 6:12AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Bump for visibility
Feb 26 2014 6:12AM
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last_tango
Posts: 2635 - Karma: 2,665
Got my ankles stabilized in my boots but my ankle bone is right against the shell especially on the inner ankles but I think this is the best I'm going to get out of these boots. Next boots will be fischer vacuums so the shell can forum to my extreme pronation.
Feb 26 2014 10:06PM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
Did they shim the medial sides of your boots like in the picture that Nerdy posted? If not, this is something that could help in your situation with a hyper-flexible foot.
Feb 26 2014 10:29PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
There will be much more then that which can be done. Firstly if you can maybe get some pics of your footbeds. Also some of you stood on them tht way we can tell you if they are actually stabilising your feet. If they are, what shell work have you had done? Obviously if the fitter has secured your foot position it should be pretty easy to expand the shell aroun. The area. From there if footbed and shell are good you could look into shell chanting and shims but I honestly would think get footbed and shell right and you will be good.
Feb 27 2014 4:46AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Tom's and AJizzle's posts are spot on. I would add that provided your shell is Polyurethane (either ester/ether) your boot-fitter should be able to modify the shell in the ankle area. There is no real need to go the Fischer boot unless that is a better starting point for your foot. Don't think just because it is marketed as a moldable boot that it will solve your problems because if the starting point is too wrong for your foot it won't be of any real help to you.
Feb 27 2014 5:07AM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
This, I encounter this waayyyyyy too much. And I guess I just took for granted that the fitter would have done shell work, total brain fart.
Feb 27 2014 12:24PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8633 - Karma: 32,527
We'll I ran into some financial problems, so I couldn't buy any foot beds. But I scavenged some stuff up and surprisingly, it worked!! I had some old boots where the footbed had a higher arch, but was super packed out, so I pulled those out and put them under my current stock ones. I guess they gave me the proper support! Because no more cramps! I was pleasantly surprised!
Feb 27 2014 11:25PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Sometimes a little bit is a good start and will serve as a temporary fix. But because this is not a stable, durable foam I would definitely recommend going with something proper once you are able to. The benefits of a proper footbed will far exceed what you've done, especially in the long term department.
Feb 28 2014 3:28AM
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PhotoGraphic
Posts: 241 - Karma: 477
I destroyed my per of old twalls from 2009 - they were a dream no bruising nothing wrong most comfortable thing in the world with some random footbeds from a per of hiking boots. Go get fitted into a per of 2014 twalls - right foot feels exactly the same as it did in the previous per but on my left foot I keep getting constant toe bang. These have heat moulded foot beds and liners were moulded feel like a dream. I ride with them fully wrenched up. Any solutions to fixing the toebang?
Feb 28 2014 4:03PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
If you already have a footbed and your foot is properly surported then you could get the toe box of the shell modified to fit you better. This may mean more length, more hight or more width or a combo. This should help relieve the issue.
Feb 28 2014 6:53PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
Bringing this back up to the top
Mar 3 2014 7:57AM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
Figured this might be a good place to ask this.

What's your guys honest opinion on the fischer vacuum fit?
Mar 6 2014 12:04PM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
I don't have a ton of experience with vacuum, but I've heard great things, heard terrible things, and heard so so things. I think like all boots, it has to interface with your foot and lower leg mechanics well. I wouldn't tell anyone with raynaud's to get a vacuum boot.
Mar 6 2014 12:11PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
It's an interesting concept. Personally I think they went the wrong way with it. I think what salomon and atomic are doing by having the boots expand makes more sense. If you start with a small volume and then have it expand where needed you will have a snug fit all over. With the vacume it can be te case that the shell distorts when being fitted. They also suffer from having to make to sole soft to allow the deforming. This mean the boots can feel pretty flexy. So overall it's an interesting way of fitting boots but I don't think it's the best custom option currently available.
Mar 6 2014 12:12PM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
Interesting. I tried on probably 8 different boots a few days ago and the rc4 130 felt best initially. It hugged my foot really well in all areas right off the shelf. I have a race background, chicken legs, narrow heel, and just a low volume foot in general. Although, i have a wicked 6th toe that goes back to about mid arch. I guess I could go with another race type boot, but it sounds like there wouldn't be as much flexibility to work with the 6th toe area as the vacuum fit. Is this assumption wrong?

The fitter did explain that the 130 flex is really like a 110, and then 110 is really like a 90. That's fine with me, as 110 is about what I'm looking for.

I tried some atomics on, specifically the hawx. I was told this was the narrower of waymaker and live fit (the other atomics they had in stock). It felt great, but just a bit big overall in the heel and calf area.

I suppose I could try sizing down and start grinding out for length. A 26.5 fits me perfect length wise off the shelf so idk if there is enough room for that much lengthening.
Mar 6 2014 12:53PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
Without seeing your foot in a shell its hard to give any advice. What I would suggest though, is get the footbed made first. You will need a custom footbed with any boot, so have those made up and then try the boots the fitter recommends. It will give a much better idea of how the boot will feel after fitting.

Did the shop carry redsters or Xmax's? I would try the redster 120 and the Xmax 130. Both could be fitted well round the rear foot and could be easily adapted to fit the 5th met. It may even be that once neutral that 6th toe disappears somewhat so another reason to start with footbeds.

But it sounds like you are doing the right things. Just remember go small if there is a choice. You can always make boots bigger but you cant make them smaller.
Mar 6 2014 1:00PM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
No, no redsters or xmax's.

Yeah, I plan on getting the custom insole first. I'm aware that's part of my issue right not regarding the pain I get.

Thanks for the goof info. I wasn't sure if the vacuum fit was the real deal or halfway marketing stuff. The price tag is definitely something I wouldn't mind shying away from though.
Mar 6 2014 2:53PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Any boot in this category is built on purpose to undergo shell modification. If you have a sixth toe or large tuberosity on your 5th met, then it is a super simple and easy fix once your foot is stabilized. Quite often, the footbed fixes most of that issue but any of these shells can be punched or ground to exactly meet your needs if needed.
Mar 10 2014 5:19PM
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op14
Posts: 1769 - Karma: 4,586
I can get my left boot to a perfect fitting, neither too loose or tight, absolutely perfect. But my right boot is a completely different story. It either hurts or so loose i fell like im gonna break my ankle.
Mar 13 2014 9:09PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Never is the right foot the exact same as the left- there are always going to be minor (and sometimes major) differences between them. But first, we will need some more details from you:
1. What kind of footbed are you using?
2. What is the shell fit of your boot like? 1cm, 2cm, or 3cm? (how to do this is explained a number of times in here)
3. What boot is it? (model and flex)
4. How many ski days do you have on the boot so far?
Mar 14 2014 4:50AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Question-

I went and got my boots fit at the best place in the bay area this past fall. I did the whole shebang; custom footbeds, grinding, punching etc. Ive gone back 3 times to dial in the fit as mch as possible but my feet are top 10 weirdest out there.

It is very much a performance fit which is perfect...except for a few small issues. My "ring" and "middle" toes go numb within a few minutes of putting the boot on. worse on the left foot than the right. Not horrible, but it does suck.

the other issue is the muscle on the outside and back of my ankle/shin gets fatigued quickly. I know this is because i have supinated ankles. I was provided with wedges(the fitter put them in initially, but in the shop they just made it worse), and was just making sure i should be putting them under the outside of my heel, correct?

Me: SUPER high arch, SUPER high top of foot, above average width, average volume. big toe shorter than the 2 toes next to it. ive always had issues with the vein on top of my foot getting crushed and my foot going numb. Im rocking Lange 120sx boots.



I really dont want to sacrifice the closeness of the fit- after my packed out old boots these boots let me kill it way harder. So what are your thoughts on my 1st world issues my bootfitting knights in shining armour?
Mar 14 2014 10:18PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
^from the sounds of it your foot is not being surported fully by the footbed. What type did you get? I'm guessing your foot is still able to pronate meaning your lateral toes are tight to the shell. If you stabilise the foot hopefully you can realign the foot better. This should also help with the ankle. The muscles will be slightly activating due to te foot not being secured in neutral. Again surport the foot this should go.

So luckily for you it like most boot problems just sounds like a support problem which either a better footbed or a remould to an existing footbed could resolve.
Mar 15 2014 5:26AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
In addition to what Tom said, I see a lot of your numbness and lack of sensation in your toes associated with your combination of a "super high" instep with a low-ish volume boot. The SX 120, while it is a 102mm boot, it is one of the lowest and narrowest 102mm boots on the market, if not the lowest/narrowest.

I totally understand that you like the snug fit, but if the instep of the shell is too low for you, then it is harder to fix than width, in my opinion. It will lead to decreased blood flow and numbness for sure.

Your boot-fitter can try grinding down the boot board a bit, but the one that is in the SX isn't very meaty so not a lot of improvement will be made...

If improvements cannot be made in the numbness department, be prepared to come to terms with the potential that this shell might not be the best match with your foot. If that does end up happening, there are other boot options that will be a similar width, heel fit, and flex but with a more generous instep height.
Mar 15 2014 11:14AM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
^yeah excellent point by onenerdy. I was just fitting some sx80's and they are not high volume really. It could well be that the instep of the boot is pressing your instep. You have the spn and dpn nerves running over te top of the foot and if these gets compressed it can result in numb toes. As onenerdy says you maybe can get the boot board ground but the ax does not have much. It may be though that getting the foot back to neutral also helps here. If the foot pronate it can drop the instep to the inside meaning it feels tighter then it should. So yeah go have both te shell and footbeds assessed.
Mar 15 2014 11:54AM
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Cspliffff
Posts: 152 - Karma: 995
I have a pair of Full Tilt "High Fives" from 2012 and they are perfectly fitted and everything is perfect except for one thing! When i go to de butter or flex out my skis i feel my liners move inside of the outer shell then when i step back down flat footed they sink back in. So whats up with it? just not fitted as good as i thought?
Mar 15 2014 8:00PM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
If you wanna get a second opinion, I work at any mtn in concord, and will be there all day tomorrow, 11am to 6pm.
Mar 15 2014 8:23PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
How snug are your buckles done up? If you don't properly buckle your boot, the shell cannot hold the liner inplace.

This problem could also be associated with your specific boot because it is 3:1 lasted. Most every ski boot is 2:1 lasted, meaning 26.0 and 26.5 use the same shell (2 sizes within 1 shell). The Influence series from FT is 3:1 lasted, meaning there are 3 sizes within 1 shell (the shell is much larger than normal and there are different liners used to create the multiple fits). This can lead to improper fitting liner and shell combinations, as well as other fit related issues.
Mar 16 2014 6:44AM
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Daph
Posts: 5978 - Karma: 5,005
So I just got a new pair of ft soul sisters, still breaking in especially in the ankle region. I broke my tib fib last season and ive noticed that the edge of the liner (they're the power wraps so the part of the liner that wraps underneath the upper part) sits right on the bone callus from my fibula break. Its not terribly uncomfortable while skiing but i'm on park crew and spend a lot of time in my boots just walking around and the area around my fibula swells up pretty big by the end of the day due to this irritation. I'll try to get a picture. Is there anything I can do or should i just wait for the boots to break in more and suck it up?
Mar 16 2014 11:58AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
can you break down the callus? kinda like how you break down scar tissue?

Otherwise, you should start buying Ibuprofen in Costco quantities...
Mar 16 2014 12:02PM
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Daph
Posts: 5978 - Karma: 5,005
No its excess bone growth. The only way to get rid of it would be surgery and i've been under the knife enough in the past year, i'd like to avoid it. It felt a little better today, hopefully over time that spot just packs out a lot
Mar 16 2014 7:29PM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
Take them to a fitter, after an injury like that it is very likely that you will need a decent amount of work done, as well as a remold of the liner. That area can be padded out during molding, to create more room in the liner. Do you have footbeds?
Mar 16 2014 10:45PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
Do you have any metal left in the leg any pins ect? If not and the leg is swelling up just from being in the boot you need somthing doing. You really need to try to cut down the roaring of the tib fib. They will rotate as the foot pronates so it's really important you get some good custom footbeds. From there honestly I would maybe suggest changing those liners. They have 2 main issues. 1 they have foam under the foot which makes surporting the foot harder then in a standard liner. Secon sadly they will take up volume in the cuff which is something you don't want. You may find that changing to a non wrap style liner helps. If you stick with the wraps though you can get them modified to remove foam from the cuff to give your leg the room it's needs. But never remove material untill you have the foot locked down. So if you haven't already start with some custom footbeds and then have the fitter asse what else will need to be done. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.
Mar 17 2014 5:19AM
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Daph
Posts: 5978 - Karma: 5,005
I have custom foot beds (arch molds i believe) and had the liners molded. It didnt start swelling up until after i had spent a 10 hr work day in them so during the initial mold I didnt expect it to be a problem. I still have a rod in the tibia and two screws at the top end but no screws in the fibula or ankle region. I'm taking them to my fitter today to try and resolve the issue but like you guys said, I may end up getting liners that arent power wraps. Thanks for the advice guys!
Mar 17 2014 12:11PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
In addition to what has already been said, you can try to wrap the liner the other (opposite) way. In the past, Andy Parry and Will Wesson both had this problem with their Power Wraps and when we wrapped the liner the other way and re-molded it, it made everything better. Try this out if things don't get better with what has already been suggested.


Mar 18 2014 7:51AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Bump
Mar 20 2014 11:50AM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
This should probably be made a sticky
Mar 20 2014 3:13PM
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Daph
Posts: 5978 - Karma: 5,005
Tried this, problems gone! Wheeee! Thanks brother
Mar 20 2014 4:16PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Awesome, you're welcome!
Mar 20 2014 4:49PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043
Bringing this back up
Mar 26 2014 5:03AM
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rs2s
Posts: 7 - Karma: 14
So a while back I got new Atomic Overload 100's with a custom made Sidas footbeds, they fit great and I have no problems skiing in them. However the other day I took the liners out of the boot so they could dry when I tried to remove the footbed from the liner the footbed was stuck in the front by the toes making it impossible to remove. I lifted the heel just fine but at the front of the liner the footbed just wouldn't come out it seems like the footbed has been glued to the liner by the toe area.

This made it very hard to get the liner back into the boot because custom made footbeds are stiff and not flexible at all.

Basically my question is should the footbed be glued/stuck (my previous boots with custom made footbeds never were stuck) and if I were just to pull out the footbed with force would it damage the liner?
Mar 26 2014 9:23PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
I hope you are liking the boots otherwise, I'm stoked you picked them up!

Generally speaking, your custom footbed should not be glued into the liner... I'm not sure what the boot-fitter is doing there. I would call up the shop you got them from and ask to speak with the fitter to what he has done. You are better off having him solve the problem rather than you risk damaging your liner/footbed.
Mar 27 2014 3:53AM
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rs2s
Posts: 7 - Karma: 14
Thanks for the help, I bought the boots/got fitted in Canada while I was on holiday but I live in New Zealand so I can't take them back, I will probably just take the boots to a ski shop here in NZ and see what they say.
Mar 27 2014 4:19PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Footbeds will be your new best friend. Get proper footbeds and then your liners remolded. You might need to have the shell worked on but you will not know for sure until you stabilize your foot and ankle in the right spot.
Mar 30 2014 6:45AM
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