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The Official: "What is wrong with my boots?" Thread

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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
This thread should be seen as an accompaniment to the "How To Buy Ski Boots" thread, more specifically aimed at solving a problem with your existing ski boots. Rather than clog up Gear Talk with countless repeating threads, please dump your boot-fitting related questions here and we will do our best to help you out.

Remember, nothing is a substitute for going to a real boot-fitter; they can see your foot, we can't. So if you can't get to a boot-fitter, or are frustrated with your current one, we can help point you in the right direction. Try to be as descriptive of your problem as possible and post pics if you can. The more information we get from you, the more successful we will hopefully be in helping you out.

Ready, set, go.


Dec 14 2013 2:45PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
s-handIm curious as to how custom insoles work. I mean, how are they made? Wouldn't forming insoles to match my feet defeat the purpose by adapting to my ankle pronation and not providing me the support I need?


Proper arch support is like the foundation of your house in that it goes under your foot. There are different strategies/theories as to which way is best, for example doing it weighted (standing) or unweighted (sitting) but they all try to reposition your foot for skiing.

The human foot has evolved for walking, not for being stuffed into a plastic cast. Your foot is a flexible structure and will therefore twist and turn inside the boot unless a proper interface (a footbed) is in place. In a ski boot you want to control and minimize movement (pronation/supination) and stop the foot from moving inside the boot. This is why a skiing footbed is different from a running footbed which allows more pronation to happen.

A custom footbed uses your foot's natural contours and the fitter positions each foot according to its own needs that are ideal for skiing. When properly done, they do not make your foot do unnatural things, they just prevent too much movement from happening.
Jan 6 2015 8:43AM
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drumbumocdp
Posts: 3228 - Karma: 1,079
onenerdykidProper arch support is like the foundation of your house in that it goes under your foot. There are different strategies/theories as to which way is best, for example doing it weighted (standing) or unweighted (sitting) but they all try to reposition your foot for skiing.

The human foot has evolved for walking, not for being stuffed into a plastic cast. Your foot is a flexible structure and will therefore twist and turn inside the boot unless a proper interface (a footbed) is in place. In a ski boot you want to control and minimize movement (pronation/supination) and stop the foot from moving inside the boot. This is why a skiing footbed is different from a running footbed which allows more pronation to happen.

A custom footbed uses your foot's natural contours and the fitter positions each foot according to its own needs that are ideal for skiing. When properly done, they do not make your foot do unnatural things, they just prevent too much movement from happening.


Have you ever delt with a Surefoot custom footbed? I have mine and love it, just wondering if you know of any other companies doing a good job with the costom boot work.
Jan 6 2015 4:48PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
onenerdykidTypically, toes don't get casted up or anything like that. So depending on how badly you broke your toe, you should be able to ski fine... it's just a matter of being able to get in that might cause you a bit of pain.

I broke my 3 outer toes once and could ski even though walking sucked. What did your doctor say?


I go in next week for my follow up. That will be one month, so I'm assuming I'll be cleared to ski, but I have no idea how this stuff works!
Jan 6 2015 5:17PM
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M.M
Posts: 1696 - Karma: 4,490
so last year i got fitted for full tilts and used trim to fit foot beds and they fit perfectly, my foot didnt move around and had no shin bang untill about 3/4 of the season, when my foot grew and my boots no longer were fitting very well.

so this season i got fitted for nordica tj's with trim to fit foot beds which have always fit my foot very well in boots and skates and custom foot beds are to expensive for me now.

the fit is not the concern though, they are the best fitting boots ive ever had, no movement, no pressure points, no problems other than after hard riding for about 4 days i get bad shin bang. the only thing i can think of is that they are to stiff for me at 5'11 165. but i need the stiffness for skiing as i am a very aggressive and experienced skier in and out of the park.

i didnt have any shinbang problems with my FT's and they were a 6 flex which i was gonna bump up to an 8 but i ended up getting the nordicas.

what do you think it is?
Jan 6 2015 10:43PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
drumbumocdpHave you ever delt with a Surefoot custom footbed? I have mine and love it, just wondering if you know of any other companies doing a good job with the costom boot work.


I have dealt with many over the years (both normal skiers & athletes) and honestly I have not been impressed with their product. I have always found another option that better balanced and centered the foot. Aline footbeds work super well (I have always seen these properly position someone better than Surefoot) and any weighted/molded product (like from Sidas) works better but only in the right hands. This part is very important about custom footbeds- the brand matters very little since the quality & accuracy of the footbed is dependent on the person doing the molding.

So, if 2 shops offer Sidas custom footbeds you could get 2 very different footbeds. You will need to research who in your area makes the best footbeds. Ask your friends, coaches, patrolers, and even the shop themselves (if they fit professional atheletes and offer appointment only fittings you're probably in the right spot).
Jan 7 2015 3:41AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
onenerdykidatheletes


wow I am dumb in the morning.
Jan 7 2015 3:42AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
daveyjonesthe fit is not the concern though, they are the best fitting boots ive ever had, no movement, no pressure points, no problems other than after hard riding for about 4 days i get bad shin bang. the only thing i can think of is that they are to stiff for me at 5'11 165. but i need the stiffness for skiing as i am a very aggressive and experienced skier in and out of the park.

i didnt have any shinbang problems with my FT's and they were a 6 flex which i was gonna bump up to an 8 but i ended up getting the nordicas.

what do you think it is?


honestly, while a trim to fit might feel good it is probably not supporting your foot enough and the amount of ankle rotation that is resulting from it could contribute to your shinbang. Stiff boots causing shinbang is a bit of a myth more than anything, as it would need to be super ridiculously stiff to do that. And for your size, 130 is not too stiff, especially given that you are an aggressive skier outside of the park and want the boot to work well there too.

Let's do this checklist:
Footbeds we discussed. You should get better footbeds for sure.

Are your new boots just as tall on your let as your old boots? If they are lower, it could be contributing to your problem.

Are you landing backseat or off balance enough to stress your shins?

Does the Nordica liner provide as much cushioning as your FT did? Perhaps if you switch to a Power Wrap liner it might help.
Jan 7 2015 3:49AM
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haggis_hunter
Posts: 399 - Karma: 207
Chaps, your advice on my Boosters please.

Ive been running them loose on the boot (still tight but not fitted to the boot). This is to get the fit the way Booster advise so theres no contact with the outer shell. If I were to affix them to the boot at the normal mounting points for the power strap I would have to trim some of the shell. Trimming doesn't phase me as I've done automotive composites work before so the mechanics of it are easy, but since this isn't a car I thought I would ask your advice.

How much can I trim off? I have marked the desired line in red. The other option to get the fit of them 100% is to re drill the holes on the back. My mechanics head says this would create too much stress on the back of the boot.





Jan 7 2015 1:09PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
^ I would mount them in the normal/stock position. If you drill new holes higher up where the plastic is much thinner and could lead to problems.

I would also not trim away the top part of the cuff, at first. You might like it (a lot of world cup racers keep the booster on cuff depending on what feels better). The cuff of the X-Max is rather soft, so it will compress rather easily to the tongue so you might not need to trim that area.

The line you have marked is fine, but if you cut it off the boot will get slightly softer to the front. Try it first before you cut, as there is no going back once it's done.
Jan 7 2015 1:23PM
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haggis_hunter
Posts: 399 - Karma: 207
Thanks, I had guessed as much as they are dam soft for boots that claim to be a 120 flex. I wanted to check before I got the air saw out and made a mess... I will just mount the Boosters to the normal holes for now and see how it goes. Chances are the boots wont last much longer than my X-Pro 120s did (I got these under warranty in the summer as I blew the last out on the X-Pros).
Jan 7 2015 1:35PM
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JibSome
Posts: 30 - Karma: 249
Sup guys. So here's my problem
I CAN'T find boots that fit perfectly. I used to ride full tilts but got massive toe bang so I went back to my salomons in which I never got toe bang. However in my salomons my foot was cramping up on awkward landings. So I finally decided to get myself fitted and got fitted for some newer salomons because apparently I have a narrow heel. This opened a whole new world of butters and nollies. I also sized down from a 28 to a 27.5
But now the toe bang is back and as shitty as ever. So now I don't know what to do. Should I ask my fitter to make my boot bigger in the toe area so they'll fit like my size 28 salomons?
Jan 9 2015 4:58PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
JibSomeSup guys. So here's my problem
I CAN'T find boots that fit perfectly. I used to ride full tilts but got massive toe bang so I went back to my salomons in which I never got toe bang. However in my salomons my foot was cramping up on awkward landings. So I finally decided to get myself fitted and got fitted for some newer salomons because apparently I have a narrow heel. This opened a whole new world of butters and nollies. I also sized down from a 28 to a 27.5
But now the toe bang is back and as shitty as ever. So now I don't know what to do. Should I ask my fitter to make my boot bigger in the toe area so they'll fit like my size 28 salomons?


Do you have proper, supportive footbeds? If not these are an absolute must. Their importance has been discussed at length here and I won't go into it again. If that doesn't solve your problem, then you get the toe punched out. Do not punch the toe before you get footbeds or else your foot will just slide into the space made by the punch.
Jan 9 2015 5:57PM
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JibSome
Posts: 30 - Karma: 249
onenerdykidDo you have proper, supportive footbeds? If not these are an absolute must. Their importance has been discussed at length here and I won't go into it again. If that doesn't solve your problem, then you get the toe punched out. Do not punch the toe before you get footbeds or else your foot will just slide into the space made by the punch.


I have the ones the boot came with and they seem like proper ones. The only thing that worries me is that some people say that you should have some more foam added to the toe area and that's like the exact opposite thing that I want to do.
Jan 9 2015 6:28PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
JibSomeI have the ones the boot came with and they seem like proper ones.


Unforunately no, the insoles that come inside a boot are a little better than a cocktail napkin. They do nothing to actually support the 3 arches of your foot.

The reason you are getting toe bang has actually very very little to do with the boot. It has much more to do with your foot. Your foot is a flexible structure designed to absorb the impacts of running/walking and it does this by constantly elongating, shortening, and elongating. This movement is happening inside your boot because your arches are not supported and thus your toe slides to the front of the boot. The only way to actually stop it is to get a proper supportive footbed.

When you get a proper footbed, you will also notice your skiing become more responsive, more efficient, more powerful because your foot is properly held in place inside the boot.
Jan 9 2015 6:38PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7408 - Karma: 11,040
JibSomeI have the ones the boot came with and they seem like proper ones. The only thing that worries me is that some people say that you should have some more foam added to the toe area and that's like the exact opposite thing that I want to do.


Proper footbeds in this sense are custom footbeds, not stock ones.
Jan 9 2015 6:40PM
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JibSome
Posts: 30 - Karma: 249
Thanks guys. I'll guess I'll try get them asap
Jan 9 2015 6:53PM
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drew.p.weener
Posts: 75 - Karma: 58
connorwyckoffin all seriousness, is there a good fix to this? my toes get cold sometimes in my booters,even with thick socks on.

like any particular socks you'd recommend to keep my toes reeealy warm? thanks haha


Thick socks won't really help. you probably just buckle the bottom buckle too tight, that cuts off circulation, your feet would get cold in any conditions if you buckle the bottom buckle too tight.
Jan 10 2015 1:54AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
I went through the full bootfitting process, proper shell fit, heat molded liners, superfeet, etc. Last year they skied great, but DESTROYED, my big toes, lost both toenails. This year we tried adding some material to the heel for a better heel hold, but i still blew out my big toes skiing again. Im not getting any sliding of my foot that i can feel, and even when I land square my big toes are banging BAD. Do I need a punch out or what? I get no shin bang, and overall they are the best boots ive ever skied in, aside from my poor big toes.
Jan 10 2015 5:15PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
Ben.I went through the full bootfitting process, proper shell fit, heat molded liners, superfeet, etc. Last year they skied great, but DESTROYED, my big toes, lost both toenails. This year we tried adding some material to the heel for a better heel hold, but i still blew out my big toes skiing again. Im not getting any sliding of my foot that i can feel, and even when I land square my big toes are banging BAD. Do I need a punch out or what? I get no shin bang, and overall they are the best boots ive ever skied in, aside from my poor big toes.


In my experience, shell toe box shapes rarely resemble what the foot looks like. So, if your were to simply look at the shape of your "toe box" compared to the one on the boot (it can sometimes be a bit hard since the outside shape of the boot is not always the same as the inside), do they match up well?

Having your toes punched out or toe box reshaped to better resemble your own footshape is never a bad thing and will most likely help you a lot.
Jan 11 2015 6:07AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
onenerdykidIn my experience, shell toe box shapes rarely resemble what the foot looks like. So, if your were to simply look at the shape of your "toe box" compared to the one on the boot (it can sometimes be a bit hard since the outside shape of the boot is not always the same as the inside), do they match up well?

Having your toes punched out or toe box reshaped to better resemble your own footshape is never a bad thing and will most likely help you a lot.


Awesome. Im running out of other ideas, but wanted to check in here anyways.
Jan 11 2015 2:10PM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
Hey guys, I'm having an issue with persistent pain in both fibulas as shown in this image:



The pain is only present when I physically press on my fibula in the red area marked, or when I'm in tightly buckled ski boots.

I've been skiing the Salomon Quest Max 120 for the last two seasons - year 1 with the stock liner, year 2 with an Intuition power wrap, and this year I replaced the power wrap with a new Intuition HD race tongue liner. I replaced the power wrap as I was experiencing this pain last year and thought it was due to buckle placement on the boot compressing where the liner wrapped over my fibulas and creating a hot spot (possible stress fracture?).

I work at a mountain and ski at least 2/5 days. Depending on how long I ski for and how soft conditions are, the pain varies, but the longer I spend in ski boots the more sensitive my fibulas are.

Even after replacing the liner (primarily because of this issue - I attributed it to the cuff being packed out as they're a few seasons old) I'm still getting the pain, and I'm concerned as the tongue of the HD race liner sits on an angle towards the inside of my tibia, putting the edge of the tongue roughly in line with the pain in my fibula - unfortunately I think I'm having the same issue as I was experiencing in the power wraps.

The only way I can think of to remedy this without stopping skiing to let the bone heal (not really an option as I sometimes need to ski for work) is to pad the liner so the pressure from the tongue and buckle is more evenly distributed across my shin. Do you have any thoughts on how this could be done or where/what kind of padding would be most usefully placed? I'm probably going to go to a fitter, but wanted to head in with some informed opinions. If you have other ideas I'm all ears.

More info if useful: I have Sidas fully custom footbeds which I just got made the other day to replace some heat-mouldable Soles and have skied on a couple of times. I don't feel like there's been any realignment of my lower leg and the shin pain is still present, but my feet are much more comfortable than they previously were in the boot.
Jan 12 2015 8:08PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
^^ good to hear that you got a proper footbed in there now. I have seen this problem a few times with Quest models, as they only have 1 buckle on the cuff. Only having 1 buckle on the cuff can result in some weird pressure distribution when flexing. Would you say the pressure is at or slightly below the location of the buckle?

Depending on how good your boot-fitter is, it is possible to perform some minor surgery on the cuff and add a 2nd cuff buckle in order to create better pressure distribution over your shin area. Would this sound like it might suit your issue? Or is the problem lower down?
Jan 13 2015 3:07AM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
I think I've isolated the issue - it's not exclusively the edge of the tongue causing the problem, but like you said, it's a problem with the one buckle. I can't tighten the power strap enough at the top (or it flexes too much) so that when I overflex it, all the resistance from the boot is being pushed lower down into the spot on my tibia under the buckle because it doesn't give as much as the strap. It's a little better if I wear the strap under the tongue because I can get it tighter, but I normally buckle my boots this way and it's clearly still a problem. Like you said, an extra buckle further up the cuff might help, but how about a WC booster strap? It might be more rigid than the stock strap and balance the forces between the buckle and the strap a little better. What are your thoughts?
Jan 13 2015 4:48PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
I was going to say, try either a Booster or loosen the lower cuff buckle a notch and crank the hell out of the top strap.
Jan 13 2015 6:00PM
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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
Is it practical to use a booster strap with a 3-piece boot, considering that such boots derive their stiffness from the tongue and not the back of the cuff? If so, what would be the best way to route the strap; I was thinking of routing it around the tongue and between the liner and the back of the cuff.
Jan 13 2015 9:10PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
ankhouLike you said, an extra buckle further up the cuff might help, but how about a WC booster strap? It might be more rigid than the stock strap and balance the forces between the buckle and the strap a little better. What are your thoughts?


In terms of supporting your weight, a Booster will unfortunately never come close to doing what a buckle can do. I will help keep the liner tongue against your shin better but at the end of the day it's still a stiff elastic vs a metal bar. See if your local boot-fitter is up to the challenge of throwing on another buckle. It involves some minor boot surgery, but it will for sure do the trick.
Jan 14 2015 9:37AM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2886 - Karma: 2,252
I had been skiing with Fulltilt Classics for three seasons and had not yet purchased footbeds. Recently I went to a boot fitter and he gave me a new pro liner and heat molded some sure feet into it. It is definitely a different fit and I feel like I have great arch support, however, my shoulder (outside area under the foot, below pinky toe were in pain.

Does anyone have a solution will this get better overtime?
Jan 14 2015 2:45PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
CONAIR_BUSCEMII had been skiing with Fulltilt Classics for three seasons and had not yet purchased footbeds. Recently I went to a boot fitter and he gave me a new pro liner and heat molded some sure feet into it. It is definitely a different fit and I feel like I have great arch support, however, my shoulder (outside area under the foot, below pinky toe were in pain.

Does anyone have a solution will this get better overtime?


Sometimes Surefoot's footbeds have weird ridges/contours that might not sit well against the foot... Does your footbed have any such ridge in that problem area?

And are you saying the pain is originating directly below the pinky toe (underneath it), or behind the pinky toe/closer to the heel?
Jan 14 2015 3:06PM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2886 - Karma: 2,252
onenerdykidSometimes Surefoot's footbeds have weird ridges/contours that might not sit well against the foot... Does your footbed have any such ridge in that problem area?

And are you saying the pain is originating directly below the pinky toe (underneath it), or behind the pinky toe/closer to the heel?


The pain is originating behind the pinky toe closer to the heel. So the shoulder of the foot, i.e. underneath the outside part of the foot. I initially thought it was the shell pushing hard against the side of my foot. However, I ruled this out because the outside side part of my feet do not hurt. Only underneath. It feels as if all of my weight is being distributed in this area rather than evenly around my whole foot. Like it feels as if my foot isn't him flat and after awhile all my weight is held up by the shoulder of my feet. My boots do fit quite well and this has only happened after I went to the boot fitter.
Jan 14 2015 4:33PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
CONAIR_BUSCEMIThe pain is originating behind the pinky toe closer to the heel. So the shoulder of the foot, i.e. underneath the outside part of the foot. I initially thought it was the shell pushing hard against the side of my foot. However, I ruled this out because the outside side part of my feet do not hurt. Only underneath. It feels as if all of my weight is being distributed in this area rather than evenly around my whole foot. Like it feels as if my foot isn't him flat and after awhile all my weight is held up by the shoulder of my feet. My boots do fit quite well and this has only happened after I went to the boot fitter.


Is this the problem area?



This is called the tuberosity of the 5th met and it sounds like the exact area you are describing and unfortunately a common problem with Surefoot's footbeds. I have replaced many of these (along with Superfeet) for this reason. The tuberosity of the 5th met (a very common hotspot) gets pushed up by the footbed in this area. Sometimes the underneath portion of the footbed can be ground down in this spot to lessen the pain but sometimes it doesn't work well.

Try that first, but I would then look into a footbed from A-Line or Sidas that don't have these issues.
Jan 15 2015 3:29AM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Aline footbeds, are they heat safe for moulding purposes?
Jan 17 2015 6:00PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
NinetyFourAline footbeds, are they heat safe for moulding purposes?


Which purposes exactly? I wouldn't put them in a liner and then both into an oven for example. But they are totally fine to put into a heated liner or heated shell, after the heating is complete.
Jan 18 2015 10:56AM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
onenerdykidWhich purposes exactly? I wouldn't put them in a liner and then both into an oven for example. But they are totally fine to put into a heated liner or heated shell, after the heating is complete.


Yeah just for putting back into the liner and shell post heating. The shop had never seen a pair of them before and had some concerns. Thanks!
Jan 18 2015 7:52PM
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rtl32
Posts: 679 - Karma: 1,160
Hey guys, specifically tom and onenerdykid. So last year I got professionally fitted at Heinos ski and Cycle in NJ. The guys there are fantastic and helped me find what would be a good boot for my foot, and also for what I ski (race and park). They put me in the Saloman X-Max 100, made me custom footbeds, molded the liner, and then the shell for my foot. I had a, hot spot on the back of both heels after like 2 days so I went back and they ground it out a little and it worked perfectly. My foot may have grown a little bit (maybe 1/2 size, if that) since then.

I am having two problems this season.
1.) The main one. Every time I ski, I try to keep the boots warm at my house and then in the car before I put them on. I have even resorted to putting handwarmers in the toe-box to warm it up, and taking them out right before I pt my foot bed. I put the buckles one notch tighter then where I leave them buckled to ski (so that the buckles stay up and don't flop around) and then chill out, walk around, or ride the chair/take a warm-up run on a groomer. I do this so my feet warm the whole boot up and I can establish good circulation before tightening them. Mind you, when I buckle them its not very tight, but if the boots are cold it's tight enough to cut circulation and subsequently freeze/numb my toes.

The problem is that even if I can do all of that, the 2nd and third toe from the outside of my left foot always go numb and get incredibly uncomfortable. I have tried switching the position of the ankle buckle around, making it looser, leaving the boot unbuckled etc etc. Nothing works, and those two toes always wind up numb and painful. What could cause this?

2.) I have been really pushing myself in the park this year and have landed backseat a few times. Since I got bigger and have made large improvement in racing I also needed the boot to be stiffer so I drilled out the top hole and moved the bolt on the back of the boot up. I don't know if this is the cause, because I almost always sit in the tongue of my boots and stay out of the back seat, but the few times that a jump throws me back or I spin weird off a rail have really fucked with my shins. Is there any way to prevent it in the meantime? I'm really trying my best to not land backseat but sometimes it's just inevitable.

Thanks so much in advance
Jan 20 2015 6:00PM
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JayDope
Posts: 6842 - Karma: 408
rtl32Hey guys, specifically tom and onenerdykid. So last year I got professionally fitted at Heinos ski and Cycle in NJ. The guys there are fantastic and helped me find what would be a good boot for my foot, and also for what I ski (race and park). They put me in the Saloman X-Max 100, made me custom footbeds, molded the liner, and then the shell for my foot. I had a, hot spot on the back of both heels after like 2 days so I went back and they ground it out a little and it worked perfectly. My foot may have grown a little bit (maybe 1/2 size, if that) since then.

I am having two problems this season.
1.) The main one. Every time I ski, I try to keep the boots warm at my house and then in the car before I put them on. I have even resorted to putting handwarmers in the toe-box to warm it up, and taking them out right before I pt my foot bed. I put the buckles one notch tighter then where I leave them buckled to ski (so that the buckles stay up and don't flop around) and then chill out, walk around, or ride the chair/take a warm-up run on a groomer. I do this so my feet warm the whole boot up and I can establish good circulation before tightening them. Mind you, when I buckle them its not very tight, but if the boots are cold it's tight enough to cut circulation and subsequently freeze/numb my toes.

The problem is that even if I can do all of that, the 2nd and third toe from the outside of my left foot always go numb and get incredibly uncomfortable. I have tried switching the position of the ankle buckle around, making it looser, leaving the boot unbuckled etc etc. Nothing works, and those two toes always wind up numb and painful. What could cause this?

2.) I have been really pushing myself in the park this year and have landed backseat a few times. Since I got bigger and have made large improvement in racing I also needed the boot to be stiffer so I drilled out the top hole and moved the bolt on the back of the boot up. I don't know if this is the cause, because I almost always sit in the tongue of my boots and stay out of the back seat, but the few times that a jump throws me back or I spin weird off a rail have really fucked with my shins. Is there any way to prevent it in the meantime? I'm really trying my best to not land backseat but sometimes it's just inevitable.

Thanks so much in advance

hey man, nice to see another skier from jersey, Ive been fitting boots at ski barn in wayne just down from heinos for roughly 8 years now. Ive heard nothing but great things from the guys at heinos and i always send people over there when they come in asking for race equipment because we dont offer that at our store. But anyways, seems like it could possibly be a width issue with your foot. You said they molded the shell correct? In my experience with the xmax series (im a huge fan of them) the shells do mold quite well, but at times ive also had to use our boot press just to get that width to hold enough for the customer. What foot beds did you get from heinos? I would also measure your foot again just to see if your foot did actually grow a significant amount rendering these boots slightly too small, if thats the case there are a few things to do to help get a little more volume in there. If you want to come into our store, i work mon,wed,fri, and saturdays over here. And taking a look at your foot with the boot would be helpful just to see the issue at hand in front of me. My names Jay btw and id be happy to help you at.
Jan 21 2015 12:57AM
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haggis_hunter
Posts: 399 - Karma: 207
So another set of Salomon Custom shells have been destroyed in less than a week.

This time last year I had a set of X-Pro 120's which after a week of skiing were too big for my feet, the last had blown out in them and it felt as if the liner was moving around in the shell. Took them back to the store and Salomon agreed to warranty them (fair enough and excellent customer service).

I was given a set of X-Max 120's on warranty, custom foot beds done etc etc, didnt have the shells heated as they fit was bang on with the foot beds done. Same thing happens again over the course of the week the shell volume starts to increase to the point my feet do not feel secure in the boots at all. Both sets of boots were fitted in Ellis Brighams in the UK by a trained boot fitter.

I'm not a racer but I am a pretty heavy and aggressive skier, but a 120 flex boot that Salomon claim to be for people exactly like me should last more than four days.
Jan 22 2015 4:28PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
Are you sure it's not just the liner packing out? I have never heard of a shell naturally expanding in that short a time. Once, maybe... twice, and I have to wonder what you're doing to them.
Jan 22 2015 7:44PM
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rtl32
Posts: 679 - Karma: 1,160
LamafamaSo another set of Salomon Custom shells have been destroyed in less than a week.

This time last year I had a set of X-Pro 120's which after a week of skiing were too big for my feet, the last had blown out in them and it felt as if the liner was moving around in the shell. Took them back to the store and Salomon agreed to warranty them (fair enough and excellent customer service).

I was given a set of X-Max 120's on warranty, custom foot beds done etc etc, didnt have the shells heated as they fit was bang on with the foot beds done. Same thing happens again over the course of the week the shell volume starts to increase to the point my feet do not feel secure in the boots at all. Both sets of boots were fitted in Ellis Brighams in the UK by a trained boot fitter.

I'm not a racer but I am a pretty heavy and aggressive skier, but a 120 flex boot that Salomon claim to be for people exactly like me should last more than four days.

Shells don't expand, especially when they are frozen from skiing on snow but heat mold able liners that were never heated/packed out and fitted to be a good fit in the store do. I'm 9.5 street and wear 8 in X-max 100s and they fit my foot perfectly because the liner always packs out a but more then regular ones. Then again he fitted me like a race boot (little less then a cm of space with just my foot in the shell) so that may be why. From my understanding some fitters will put you 2cm or even 2.5 if you say you aren't competing.

Are you keeping them buckled the same way you buckle them when you ski? I do a 2-3-2-2 buckle order and when I'm storing the shells (even if its just overnight) and I don't keep them buckled they feel way looser then usual. Even if I unbuckle them in my bag in the car, and just wait 20 minutes to put them on there is a very noticeable difference in how tight they are. Keep them buckled when your feet aren't in them, and this might help

If I was you I would keep them buckled for a few days, if that doesn't work then go back, get them heat molded (liners AND shells) then put your foot in just the shell, push forward so your toes touch the end, draw a line on the bottom of where your heel ends up and each day after skiing see if your foot has more space. This is basically just doing repeated shell check to see if it changes.
Jan 22 2015 10:11PM
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rtl32
Posts: 679 - Karma: 1,160
LamafamaSo another set of Salomon Custom shells have been destroyed in less than a week.

This time last year I had a set of X-Pro 120's which after a week of skiing were too big for my feet, the last had blown out in them and it felt as if the liner was moving around in the shell. Took them back to the store and Salomon agreed to warranty them (fair enough and excellent customer service).

I was given a set of X-Max 120's on warranty, custom foot beds done etc etc, didnt have the shells heated as they fit was bang on with the foot beds done. Same thing happens again over the course of the week the shell volume starts to increase to the point my feet do not feel secure in the boots at all. Both sets of boots were fitted in Ellis Brighams in the UK by a trained boot fitter.

I'm not a racer but I am a pretty heavy and aggressive skier, but a 120 flex boot that Salomon claim to be for people exactly like me should last more than four days.

Shells don't expand, especially when they are frozen from skiing on snow but heat mold able liners that were never heated/packed out and fitted to be a good fit in the store do. I'm 9.5 street and wear 8 in X-max 100s and they fit my foot perfectly because the liner always packs out a but more then regular ones. Then again he fitted me like a race boot (little less then a cm of space with just my foot in the shell) so that may be why. From my understanding some fitters will put you 2cm or even 2.5 if you say you aren't competing.

Are you keeping them buckled the same way you buckle them when you ski? I do a 2-3-2-2 buckle order and when I'm storing the shells (even if its just overnight) and I don't keep them buckled they feel way looser then usual. Even if I unbuckle them in my bag in the car, and just wait 20 minutes to put them on there is a very noticeable difference in how tight they are. Keep them buckled when your feet aren't in them, and this might help

If I was you I would keep them buckled for a few days, if that doesn't work then go back, get them heat molded (liners AND shells) then put your foot in just the shell, push forward so your toes touch the end, draw a line on the bottom of where your heel ends up and each day after skiing see if your foot has more space. This is basically just doing repeated shell check to see if it changes.
Jan 22 2015 10:11PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
LamafamaSo another set of Salomon Custom shells have been destroyed in less than a week.

This time last year I had a set of X-Pro 120's which after a week of skiing were too big for my feet, the last had blown out in them and it felt as if the liner was moving around in the shell. Took them back to the store and Salomon agreed to warranty them (fair enough and excellent customer service).

I was given a set of X-Max 120's on warranty, custom foot beds done etc etc, didnt have the shells heated as they fit was bang on with the foot beds done. Same thing happens again over the course of the week the shell volume starts to increase to the point my feet do not feel secure in the boots at all. Both sets of boots were fitted in Ellis Brighams in the UK by a trained boot fitter.

I'm not a racer but I am a pretty heavy and aggressive skier, but a 120 flex boot that Salomon claim to be for people exactly like me should last more than four days.


Can you clarify by what you mean by "destroyed"? Have you actually broken the boot, or has the liner simply packed out?

Also, if you are a big guy, Salomon's boot range is pretty soft- their 120 is more like most brand's 100. I can understand if you are also saying that you over flex them...
Jan 23 2015 2:51AM
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haggis_hunter
Posts: 399 - Karma: 207
I've had plenty of boots pack out over the years, this feels very different its marked increase in volume of the lower half of the boot over the course of a week. Last nights post was fuelled by some wine so I will summarise it a bit better today.

I keep the buckled down at all times when not in use, they never sit with the buckles off at all. The liners on these things are pretty thin so I would be amazed that they packed out to this extent in four days of use in a resort.

I think the best view of it I can offer is that my calf's and shins feel well located but the rest of my foot feels like its floating in space within the shell of the boot rather than the liner.

Even if you do what your not meant to (crank the lower shell buckles down) it still feels like theres too much volume you just get the obvious pressure point on the top of your foot.
Jan 23 2015 7:28AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
LamafamaI've had plenty of boots pack out over the years, this feels very different its marked increase in volume of the lower half of the boot over the course of a week. Last nights post was fuelled by some wine so I will summarise it a bit better today.

I keep the buckled down at all times when not in use, they never sit with the buckles off at all. The liners on these things are pretty thin so I would be amazed that they packed out to this extent in four days of use in a resort.

I think the best view of it I can offer is that my calf's and shins feel well located but the rest of my foot feels like its floating in space within the shell of the boot rather than the liner.

Even if you do what your not meant to (crank the lower shell buckles down) it still feels like theres too much volume you just get the obvious pressure point on the top of your foot.


I didn't see it in the other posts, but perhaps you could do a shell fit for us and report back. Remove the liner, put your foot in the shell, slide your toes to the front so they just barely touch, and measure the space behind your heel. 1cm is a performance fit, 2cm is normal, 3cm is way too big.

I know you said you went to a fitter, but it simply sounds like you are in the wrong shell size or possibly wrong shell altogether and need something a bit lower volume and/or narrower.
Jan 23 2015 7:37AM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
LamafamaI've had plenty of boots pack out over the years, this feels very different its marked increase in volume of the lower half of the boot over the course of a week. Last nights post was fuelled by some wine so I will summarise it a bit better today.

I keep the buckled down at all times when not in use, they never sit with the buckles off at all. The liners on these things are pretty thin so I would be amazed that they packed out to this extent in four days of use in a resort.

I think the best view of it I can offer is that my calf's and shins feel well located but the rest of my foot feels like its floating in space within the shell of the boot rather than the liner.

Even if you do what your not meant to (crank the lower shell buckles down) it still feels like theres too much volume you just get the obvious pressure point on the top of your foot.


Maybe try volume reducer shims as a last resort too.

Onenerdykid, thanks for your feedback on my shin issue. I skied 2 full pow days on Sunday-Monday and although my tibias were a little sore afterwards, they didn't feel as bad as they have previously. I tried tightening the top power strap a little more and backing off the lower buckle slightly, so that might have changed things. It's manageable for now. If it gets worse I'll look at your suggestion for boot surgery.
Jan 24 2015 1:50AM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
One more question, this time for my wife...

She started skiing a couple of years ago (previously was a type 3+ snowboarder) and we've had incredible difficulty finding a set of comfortable boots for her.

She's an ex-ballerina and has essentially a sixth toe bone spur right next to her little toe (and a smaller metatarsal bump on the inside of her big toe), plus a very low arch, making her foot short, flat, and wide at the front, but with a narrow heel.

This year we decided to go all in and went to the local Valhalla in Revelstoke to get new boots that would work for her. They ended up fitting her in the Redster Pro 110 W. I was a little concerned about the narrow shell, but they said that with the Memory Fit the shell would be able to expand sufficiently for her bone spur, needing only minor punching if any.

So we got them molded... And then we got them punched 5 times. She's been in incredible pain most times we've been skiing, with pain along the outside of her foot and numbness in her toes. I'm not 100% convinced the boot is the correct width yet for her forefoot, but we've also established that she supinates her foot.

To try and make her old boots fit last year, she went to a sports physio and got a custom orthotic made. It's quite aggressive in the arch with a thick sole and pronounced metatarsal bump. It worked in her old boots as they were higher volume but doesn't really work with her new, lower-volume boots. She's been in considerable pain when she's tried using them in the Redsters.

The physio also adjusted her cuff cant inwards slightly last visit as she has a knee alignment issue on her right leg. He also seemed to think it might help her supination, but I'm skeptical.

Currently she's skiing a basic Sole heat-moldable footbed which has worked in her snowboard boots before. This is what her feet look like after coming out of her boots right now:



I wanted to get your opinion on what the next best course of action to take is. My instinct is that a Sidas custom footbed could help correct her supination and take the pressure off the outside edge of her foot, but I'm also wondering if the boots still need to be made wider. The primary concern right now is eliminating the pain in her foot as she's able to ski a couple of runs, max, and it's absolutely ruining her winter and getting her really down on skiing.
Jan 24 2015 3:19PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7408 - Karma: 11,040
I bet the boot experts will have more knowledge, but I think your options for widening the boot are slim to none if the punches have not worked. I can't claim to know how much material is in the forefoot of the boot, but perhaps grinding it out may alleviate some pain as well. However, this is a permanent attempt at a fix so beware.

My guess is that the supination is the reason for the numbness and that a low-volume custom fit orthotic would solve much of the issue. However, it may need to be remolded/punched after seeing as how her foot will likely shift.
Jan 24 2015 3:42PM
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amo
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 1,248
So I was fitted at Larry's in Boulder last year for FT drop kicks. got custom footbeds and had no problems through the season. This season though i'm experiencing pretty severe soreness in my calves. skiing two days in a row is almost out of the question (butters on the second day are impossible). I've usually got my top buckle cranked all the way down. Any advice? Should I look into adjusting the top buckle to go tighter? I've got pretty skinny calves. not really sure what to think as i don't believe this is a very common problem?
Jan 24 2015 8:01PM
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amo
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 1,248
amoSo I was fitted at Larry's in Boulder last year for FT drop kicks. got custom footbeds and had no problems through the season. This season though i'm experiencing pretty severe soreness in my calves. skiing two days in a row is almost out of the question (butters on the second day are impossible). I've usually got my top buckle cranked all the way down. Any advice? Should I look into adjusting the top buckle to go tighter? I've got pretty skinny calves. not really sure what to think as i don't believe this is a very common problem?


and I know how to ski i.e. it's not from being back seat all day
Jan 24 2015 8:04PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
ankhouOne more question, this time for my wife...


Does she not have footbeds in the Redsters? If not, then this is definitely contributing to her problem. Without a footbed, the ankle will roll inwards and the foot will slide laterally in the shell. This is most likely why her foot is so red on the outside. Especially if the boot has been stretched already, it will simply slide into the stretched area... The footbed will keep her positioned properly so the stretch work will be effective.

What is the shell fit like? 1cm or 2cm?

You can do a shell fit for width too: liner out, foot in shell, slide foot back into heel pocket then forward 5mm, shift foot to inside portion of the shell, and look for the space between her foot and the outside of the shell. Should be about a finger tip. If less than that, boot is too narrow in that area. If more than that, she has lots of space.
Jan 25 2015 9:06AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6638 - Karma: 10,532
amoSo I was fitted at Larry's in Boulder last year for FT drop kicks. got custom footbeds and had no problems through the season. This season though i'm experiencing pretty severe soreness in my calves. skiing two days in a row is almost out of the question (butters on the second day are impossible). I've usually got my top buckle cranked all the way down. Any advice? Should I look into adjusting the top buckle to go tighter? I've got pretty skinny calves. not really sure what to think as i don't believe this is a very common problem?


Larry's an awesome boot-fitter and a really nice guy. Any one in/near Boulder area should definitely pay him a visit if you have any issues or need new boots.

To your specific point, I would have him examine your liner. The Drop Kick comes with a really basic Intuition liner that is rather thin. If you've packed it out, chances are the cuff is simply digging into your leg, or when you buckle it tightly it simply doesn't provide enough of a barrier between your leg and cuff. Does that sound like it could be the problem?
Jan 25 2015 9:13AM
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amo
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 1,248
onenerdykidLarry's an awesome boot-fitter and a really nice guy. Any one in/near Boulder area should definitely pay him a visit if you have any issues or need new boots.

To your specific point, I would have him examine your liner. The Drop Kick comes with a really basic Intuition liner that is rather thin. If you've packed it out, chances are the cuff is simply digging into your leg, or when you buckle it tightly it simply doesn't provide enough of a barrier between your leg and cuff. Does that sound like it could be the problem?


Yeah that sounds like it could be the problem. Also after some more research last night i came across a very obvious and easily fixed problem which would be dehydration on the hill.
Jan 25 2015 2:08PM
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