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ABasin: Pulling Passes for Pot.

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telecolo_
Posts: 394 - Karma: 1,258
Hey there all! For most in Colorado, I am sure you follow Al's ABasin Blog.. if anything to get updates on early season fun. Anyways, I have been enjoying reading this latest post by Al which focuses on the use of weed on the mountain. From his claim, ABasin has been pulling passes of a few "offenders". I am hoping this is not completely true and he is just using a scare tactic, but regardless this seems to be a pretty strong action considering the amount of people hammered at the bar, liftline, parking lot, whatever.

Knowing there is a pretty healthy weed smoking population here on NS I thought it would be interesting to see what all had to say. Has their been issues like this at your mountain?

Here is the link:
http://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2013/10/marijuana.html
Oct 19 2013 10:50PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
Their area, their rules.

I'd probably choose to ski (and spend my money) somewhere else if the area was a giant cloud of marihuana smoke.
I certainly would take my family somewhere else if there was an abundance of drug ussage. You know the one that goes skiing 6 times a year, with a wife and three kids, buying ungodly expensive lift tickets each time and dropping another $60 on lunch each each time, plus 4 ski lessons for the two oldest. The single family that makes you and your 8 friends season pass revenue look insignificant. Yeah, that family would be spending money somewhere else.
Oct 20 2013 2:28PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
Ha, what are they going to do? Drive all the way to A Basin for 2 beginner runs, say "oh shit this wide open fresh air smells like pots because every single person here is smoking the devils plant. I think I'll turn around and drive another 40 minutes to go to Breck honey. Please take your ski gear off so you don't get the car muddy from the parking lot." Arrives at Breck, "Well golly honey, it smells the same here too. I guess we'll be skiing in Nebraska next year."
Oct 20 2013 2:34PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
Basically what I'm trying to say is that A Basin is not the place for jo-shmo tourist to spend a lot of money. That's Breck, Keystone, Vail, Telluride, Aspen, etc... Sure, families go there, but there's no way that anybody is going to care that a few people are smoking weed and not care that a BUNCH of people are getting drunk in the parking lot. I'd rather people smoking weed in the parking lot than hearing a bunch of kids cussing in front of my children.
Oct 20 2013 2:37PM
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AceleTerrie
Posts: 257 - Karma: 36
youre a pussy
Oct 20 2013 2:37PM
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Bastian.
Posts: 187 - Karma: 227
jah blaze my friends
Oct 20 2013 2:40PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
Why would you give a shit? Do you feel that way about alcohol? Cigarettes? The overwhelming majority of people getting high are discreet and respectful. It's a 100% completely arbitrary distinction with no foundation in reality. This manufactured rage and indignation is so fucking pathetic. Why ANYONE cares what another individual does when it has no bearing whatsoever on them personally is beyond me.

A "giant cloud of marijuana smoke"...what does that even mean? Where's the line between giant cloud and midget cloud?

I'm not saying that ski areas are obligated or even should outright condone pot use, but making this an issue and a line in the sand is fucking dumb. Ski areas have been intertwined with drink and drug culture since their creation.

Oh, and as for these buttoned up family men you're using as an argument construct, those are the guys that solicit me for pot as I walk to the grocery store all winter long. I'm never approached by young people, always by guys in their 40's and 50's whom ostensibly have these families and are spending the money. If the kid is young enough to have no idea what he's smelling, it's a moot point, and if he's old enough to know, it's a teachable moment and nothing that people aren't exposed to in school and elsewhere on a daily basis. If you feel strongly against the use of pot, be a parent and explain why to your kids, and the same goes with alcohol.

In short, the fact that this is a controversy is comical. Especially in an area where there is overwhelming support in favor of the total legalization and de-demonization of pot. But, hey, there's always Utah! In another five years cultural attitudes will have shifted to the point where pot tourism will be a real financial draw and this conversation will be very different.
Oct 20 2013 2:42PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
I wonder what the correlation is between the kids who toke it up, and the kids who cuss?

Drinking the parking lot does not create secondhand smoke. For better or worse, drinking is also significantly more socially acceptable than marijuana.
At the end of the day it is their area and they get to make the rules. Regardless of what rules they make you will undoubtably find a group of 15-22 year olds who resent them, and complain about 'the man.'

They don't want you smoking weed in their area. Don't like it? Go somewhere else.

It's like when Starbucks recently decided to ask customers not to bring a gun into their shops. I prefer to carry a gun, is Starbucks denying me my rights or holding me down? Fuck no. Their business, and I'm free to spend money somewhere else.
Oct 20 2013 2:44PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
I can tell you're really hurting for an argument if you're talking about secondhand smoke in an open air parking lot at 11,000 feet in an area that is frequently very windy. Again, I'd rather my kid ask me "hey dad, what's that smell?" than "what does fuck mean?". 99.9% of people smoke weed are curteous and don't smoke overtly just as 99.9% of people who drink in the parking lot don't get too drunk to drive home. There's always going to be that .01% who ruin it for the rest. I just don't see the importance in making a distinction between the two. Like I said, I'd rather explain to my kid what a plant is than what a cuss word means or why that guy is yelling obscenities and drinking from a beer funnel from the top of his mini-van.
Oct 20 2013 2:52PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
Are you for real? A correlation between pot and cussing? Making a second hand smoke argument....in an open air, alpine, windy environment. People going around and shotgunning into little Billy's face? Equating smoking pot outdoors to bringing a gun into fucking starbucks?

Admit it. You just feel like arguing and are playing devil's advocate because that was such a dumb, intellectually dishonest argument/comparison.

No Drinking in the parking lot does in fact not create second hand smoke. Do you need me to make a list of the myriad ways that drinking could potentially and concretely adversely affect your family's day? The only argument that holds any weight whatsoever is a financial one. As in, we don't sell pot therefore it's a competitive product that could hurt our expected bottom line from booze....or something. Even that's a real reach, and I guarantee that this is a transparent attempt at pandering that will be obsolete in a few more years.

If you're standing in the lift line smoking a joint, you're an asshole. If you go to the office to complain because you smell pot in the trees, you're an asshole.
Oct 20 2013 2:52PM
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~~~~~~~~
Posts: 2345 - Karma: 2,104
I don't get how you guys are upset, they are just restating what is common policy. Just be a little more discrete and you shouldn't have any problems.
Oct 20 2013 2:54PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
haha. when was the last time you heard a guy smoking a joint say, "no thanks on the beer, I'm busy getting high"." or vice versa.





Oct 20 2013 2:57PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
Never ever. Like I said, it's a reach. But, it certainly isn't unprecedented for businesses to prohibit things they don't sell.
Oct 20 2013 2:59PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
cough*HarryAslinger*cough
Oct 20 2013 3:02PM
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SFB
Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,346
thats is the most untrue thing i have seen all day.
Oct 20 2013 3:41PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
I've lived in Summit County for almost 5 years, have worked at two different resorts, and have skied more than 100 days each of those years. I've never not once seen someone getting high in line, at the top of a lift, or even standing in the park or out in the open on a run.

There's an abundance of smoke shacks everywhere, and people tend to use them, the trees, their cars, and occasionally while riding the lift. To try and make the case that people are just smoking all day everywhere they choose just isn't true. At all. There's always people on the fringes, and the outliers, but "the most untrue thing"? Bullshit.
Oct 20 2013 3:45PM
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SFB
Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,346
i already have 3 days at abasin this season and every time there is many many people lighting up in the ilft line without thought to others around them and often times literally blowing the smoke on the person in front of them. they are most defiently not being respectful or thoughtful.
Oct 20 2013 3:52PM
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E2W13
Posts: 155 - Karma: 997
just because its legal to consume THC products in the privacy of your home does not mean that you can go out in public and spark blunts in front of families.. and when it comes down to it the resorts make way more money off the gaper vacationers than they do off of you.

there is a reason its called smoking the trees (because that's where you should smoke them) and if you are dumb enough to get caught there then you probably shouldn't be smoking in the first place

Oct 20 2013 3:58PM
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zeckgx
Posts: 794 - Karma: 31
In Colorado it is pretty much illegal to smoke anything in any public space. you must be in a designated smoking zone.

Why don't you pot smokers just make tea or a drink out of it. No smoke to deal with would make a lot of issues go way. smoking anything is dirty and an annoyance to society that is why alcohol gets an easy pass on lots of things.
Oct 20 2013 4:03PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
Smoking is dirty but PBR cans all over the parking lot isn't?
Oct 20 2013 4:05PM
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Mr.LemonPie
Posts: 4100 - Karma: 1,625
I know that isn't the case now. But that is the future I want to see in the world. I'm a dreamer and I live in a fantasy world...So what?
Oct 20 2013 4:09PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
I don't necessarily believe that pre-season at A Bay with 1,500 people relegated to a few acres and one lift is indicative of typical. Look around in the lift line. Who is actually there? Not exactly a cross-section of the ski populace. In a month, you think it'll be that way? I sure don't. "many, many people" huh? Hmm...like 10? 15? Out of...?

So, your anecdotal experience at a renowned annual shit show that places more emphasis on partying than skiing—so much so that it's damn near officially named The Beach—made up of kids in their late teens or barely past 20 is the norm?

In less than a month, A-Basin will be what it's always been, and 99% of these "many, many thoughtless and disrespectful people" will disappear until May.

And let's be honest, A-Basin has worked extremely hard at cultivating this image. A-Basin for years has consciously and knowingly coveted the hard partying crowd early and late season. A-Basin at any time could have, had they wanted to, shut down that atmosphere. They haven't because it doesn't serve their bottom line. A-Basin is synonymous with partying, and they use that to their advantage, 100%. These straw man arguments about these bourgeoise families unloading thousands to go ski A-Basin for the day are hysterical. NO ONE vacations to Summit to ski A-Basin. A-Basin depends on locals and ski bums.

A-Basin can and should discourage flippant smoking in the base area, in lift lines, in and around lodges, etc. but pulling tickets and threatening legal intervention could ultimately bite them in the ass. It's almost always better to politely ask people to take it elsewhere, and/or to be more discreet than it is to escalate a situation.
Oct 20 2013 4:09PM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,545
" You cannot smoke marijuana in public while at A-Basin."


Smoke shacks aren't public
Oct 20 2013 4:14PM
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Mr.LemonPie
Posts: 4100 - Karma: 1,625
Exactly. I'd rather see A basin put in an application to have a dispensary at the base than pull peoples passes for smoking weed.

I'm not saying it's realistically going to happen anytime soon, I'd just rather places take on that mentality with weed being legal other than the current mindset about it. It's cool that it's legalized because it sets a global precedent that hasn't been set before. I just wish CO would legalize and have the same mentality as places like the Netherlands and Jamaica take on weed.

I mean that about weed smokers too. Lighting up in the line/on the lift is just disrespectful. But people shouldn't be complaining about small groups smoking trees in the trees above the park. It fits there. It's a young crowd and the only important thing about smoking near the park would be not encouraging 13-21 year old kids to smoke.
Oct 20 2013 4:18PM
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jabroni.
Posts: 662 - Karma: 235
can we talk about this for a second.
Oct 20 2013 4:51PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
Wow. That's pretty surprising. No wonder they are posting about it.

Pot was legalized because people don't like dictating what other people can or can't do as long as it isn't hurting anyone else. A lot of the law is now in question for the same reason that smoking cigarettes in public places is illegal. People have a big problem with second hand smoke. It doesn't matter whether it is tobacco or marijuana. Right now it is already illegal to smoke pot in a public place. New legislation being voted on, might broaden the definition of a "Public Place".

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2013/10/14/under-denver-proposal-pot-smokers-could-go-to-jail-for-consuming-a-legal-product-on-their-own-property/

Any business that doesn't enforce the current laws is opening the door to huge legal problems. They could be targeted by the feds or they could face lawsuits.

I'm wondering what it's going to be like at Vail this season. Should be some interesting discussions in the Employee fall workshops.
Oct 20 2013 4:54PM
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Benson.
Posts: 2739 - Karma: 3,787
Just 'cause it's only early in the season and it will go away eventually doesn't mean it isn't thoughtless and disrespectful. I mean, fuck, who lights up in the lift line? Like it or not, there will be families at any ski resort, and people don't want their young kids around that. I know there probably aren't families there in pre-season, but it might upset other people too. Like the guy above me said, there's a stigma against secondhand smoke. I'm a frequent smoker, and I think if some dickhead has the audacity to light up in the lift line and blow smoke at other people they deserve what's coming to them. Not to mention its their land, so they can establish whatever rules and regulations they want regarding this issue.
Oct 20 2013 5:13PM
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TimRiley
Posts: 1873 - Karma: 1,327
^Seems like their scare tactic is working. I was at ABay today and didn't see or smell any pot being smoked in the lift line. Nor did I see anyone doing it in the open at the park. The parking lot, well that's a different story.
Oct 20 2013 5:21PM
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telecolo_
Posts: 394 - Karma: 1,258
For me personally, this is the issue that caught me from the original post. Though the private use of marijuana has been legalized in CO, I think socially it is still a confusing issue. Honestly, if you go to any show, resort, school campus (for the case of CU), and whatever else around here.. you will eventually encounter the smell of weed. That is just the environment that has become in CO.. especially since 64 being passed.

With that said, I think the shock from all of this is the incredibly stiff move of pulling a pass for somebody smoking weed. I am not saying they don't have the power to do so.. of course they do. But why not a simple warning?

"Hey, #1 this shouldn't be on the mountain.. #2 you are doing this around a family who have young kids that should not be exposed to this.. you need to get rid of that or we will have to take your pass."

Depending on who this was said to, I am sure it would have went over much better, no passes would had been taken, and I would had been less bothered by the blog. I think the second post by Al is a much better way to go about things. Or at least to present them to a public forum.
Oct 20 2013 5:26PM
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Alpacka
Posts: 116 - Karma: 260
i say loose butthole
Oct 20 2013 5:28PM
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telecolo_
Posts: 394 - Karma: 1,258
At the park today, too, and I completely agree. A significantly smaller presence than previous days. Thinking about this I do wonder if passes were honestly taken. All Al has to do is make a post saying passes are being pulled and that is enough to scare anybody. Especially for him to chime in on a second post with a very vague story about the people whos passes were taken.
Oct 20 2013 5:29PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
i didnt read all the thread, so sorry if this has already been brought up. this could just be because its early season and they have so little terrain open. right now, everybody goes on the same run and there isnt really a ton of hidden spots to toke, so it exposes everybody skiing there to it. where as later in the season, its easier to be more isolated and its not as dense, so people that dont want to see it can avoid it. plus most of the people that would really be offended are the people skiing the beginner runs, where right now that is the only thing open.

also maybe they are trying to make it less prominent this year, so cracking down the first few days will make people smarter, then they wont really do anything for the rest of the season because people will be (somewhat) more subtle
Oct 20 2013 5:29PM
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SlugInfinite
Posts: 666 - Karma: 191
You probably want to know the law, before you tell me I have a thick skull. City ordinance or law does not equal federal law and does not equal enforcement on federal land. That's the problem with kids who are thinking how you're thinking. A liquor license is not the same thing as a permit to operate a business on federal land. Having a beer in the parking lot of Abasin on federal land, which is operated under permit, is not the same as having a beer in the parking lot in any city which has an ordinance against open containers and public drinking.

Once again, before your comment on something you don't understand, you probably want to go ahead and read the federal laws and regulations. I get you like smoking weed, I get you think it is a safe bet to correlate smoking weed with drinking alcohol - that has been the stoner mantra for legalization for the last two decades. Unfortunately, if you want to have big boy discussions that have real life implications - you need to know more than the semantic garbage you hear regurgitated when you and your burn out buddies are sitting around smoking up in the basement.
Oct 20 2013 5:33PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
What does that have to do with anything? If a police officer sees you drinking in the parking lot, at A Basin or in a city, he's going to issue you a citation. If a police officer sees you smoking a joint in the parking lot of A Basin, or in a city, he's going to issue you a citation (but will be more likely to just ignore it). I've seen both plenty of times first hand.

How is having a beer in the parking lot of A Basin any different than having a beer in a parking lot within city limits? Neither have permits saying that it's OK to have open containers on the premise. Federal land or city land, federal law, or city ordinance. It makes no difference. It's still not legal. Why would you be OK with enforcing one but not the other? Oh yeah, because you drink alcohol and don't smoke weed so you're biased.

Legalities aside, there's no reason NOT to compare weed and alcohol. Both are controlled substances, both intoxicate you, both are illegal in public (A Basin is on federal lands which are public property), and come january both will regulated in the same way. Just because one is liquid and one is a plant does not mean you can't compare the two.

Honestly, what point are you trying to make? That you're a law student and think you're smarter than me because you know how to use google to find laws and regulations?
Oct 20 2013 5:50PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
I learned that the hard way a few years back. We had a family tradition of having a birthday party for my son/spring fest. I would haul a back pack up to the top of Lionshead Gondola. Along with food there were also adult beverages. We would picnic on the terrace next to the gondola building. We did it for 2 years and the third year we did it, the director of food service came out and told us we were breaking the law by having our own alcohol on VR property. It killed our little celebration. I still don't completely understand because you can take alcohol onto any of the decks on the mountain. Apparently, if the deck is attached to an on mountain restaurant, you can't BYOB and drink on it.
Oct 20 2013 5:55PM
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gengar.
Posts: 1042 - Karma: 1,641
First of all, This isnt entirely ABasin's decision.

A Basin is on federal land, therefore federal laws apply regardless of 64 (which still doesnt allow it in public)

I totally agree with what Al is saying. Im for smoking weed, but there's a time and a place. Ive lived in Colorado for 18 years, and not once have i seen people smoking in the lift line untill opening week at the basin. If i was a mom trying to take my kid skiing, i sure as fuck wouldnt want to have to explain to them what that smell was.

Even for people like me who are used to the smell, it did get annoying and at some points it was overwhelming.

As for the pass pulling, it is extreme however ABasin kinda needs to take drastic measures to get there point across.

And as stated above, Its not the same as alcohol. Not a bit.
Oct 20 2013 6:07PM
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SlugInfinite
Posts: 666 - Karma: 191
I would assume you were dealing with an ordinance or law for the town of Vail, and Vail Resorts - rather than federal law on federal land. There is no town of Arapahoe Basin, the governing body is Summit County and federal regulation.
Oct 20 2013 6:27PM
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SlugInfinite
Posts: 666 - Karma: 191
I have no idea how to explain or clarify this difference for you any further. You seem to be incapable of understanding the difference between governing bodies.

I haven't been a law student for 10 years, I don't need to use Google to understand laws and regulations - and I'm smarter than you because you appear to have smoked yourself retarded.
Oct 20 2013 6:29PM
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danderson.
Posts: 6560 - Karma: 5,252
Every post you make makes you sound like more and more of a bitch.
Oct 20 2013 6:43PM
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NWPA
Posts: 2309 - Karma: 165
Regardless of the new laws in CO, A-Basin is still on NFS land and is governed by federal laws so weed is still illegal. If anything we will see a lot more of this from other resorts in my opinion and more rangers, so be careful and smoke in a hidden area, in the trees but stay away from smoke shacks and don't be an idiot. I think pulling someones pass is a little over the top by A-basin but they are owned by Vail so I get it.
Oct 20 2013 6:45PM
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TimRiley
Posts: 1873 - Karma: 1,327
I totally agree with what you're saying. Fact is ski resorts have children everywhere, there is no reason kids should be exposed to second hand pot smoke at ski resorts.
Oct 20 2013 6:48PM
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E2W13
Posts: 155 - Karma: 997
exactly.. taking a couple hits to take the edge off on a pow day or what not is totally fine.. but if you're doing it in front of kids then you are no better than the dealer that offers drugs to a middle schooler.
with great power (legal marijuana use) comes great responsibility. set the right example or get your pass pulled (it's as simple as that)
Oct 20 2013 7:03PM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
When's the last time someone saw a federal agent at a-bay?
Oct 20 2013 7:05PM
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shredsox
Posts: 66 - Karma: 14
If you crack a beer in the lift line or at the top of the lift then you'll probably loose your pass too. Not really all that shocking that they're doing this, they should be. Be considerate and have half a brain and you can smoke or drink and no one is going to care.

Oh and when smoking or drinking on the lift - ask the people you're riding with first if it's OK, and look behind you. Only dicks and CU freshmen that think weed makes them cool light up with kids behind them. Always finish before the top too, don't put the lifty in an awkard situation. And remember that it's not legal till January.
Oct 20 2013 7:07PM
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gengar.
Posts: 1042 - Karma: 1,641
that's not the point. The point is its what the law is therefore A Bay has to put everyone in check so they don't get themselves fucked over.
Oct 20 2013 7:12PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
I went back and looked at your first post in this thread. Besides our disagreance on whether or not it's logical to compare the two, we are essentially making the same point while somehow managing to argue with each other about it. Sorry to bring you down to my "retarded" level, but I just did. Deal with it.
Oct 20 2013 7:16PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
I did a little research at the time, and I think it seemed like it was a county law. Summit County may have something similar. If there is, you can bank on Vail Resorts finding a way to utilize it to their advantage. They are all over things that force people to spend more money on the mountain. In this case they can say "It's not us; it's the law".
Oct 20 2013 7:22PM
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Mr.LemonPie
Posts: 4100 - Karma: 1,625
But, the federal government has said they will not block state marijuana laws. So really it is a very yellow light for what will and will not be tolerated by the federal government. I'm not supporting people smoking in the lift line, I'm just saying A Basin could have been much more laid back about telling people not to smoke.
Oct 20 2013 7:27PM
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SFB
Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,346
this only seems to be an issue in very early season and very late season.
Oct 20 2013 7:38PM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
No shit b...whats abay gonna lose? Their land use agreement. Why, for not enforcing law that the feds themselves wont.

I think not.
Smoke up Colorado and remember Halloween is around the corner and your local dispensary has all your trick or treating needs covered
Oct 20 2013 7:46PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10622 - Karma: 7,396
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Oct 20 2013 7:55PM
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