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Raising the minimum wage

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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147

Ok, am I missing something here?

There has been a big push recently by certain groups of workers in Seattle to get the minimum wage changed from $9.19/hr to $15.00/hr.

Where did these people come up with $15.00/hr? Is it based on anything or is it just a number they pulled out of their ass because they want more money and don't realize that this isn't how economies work?

If the minimum wage was raised to $15.00/hr, what would happen to all of the workers who are currently making $15.00/hr and worked their way up to that rate? What about those making $20.00/hr? If you raised the minimum wage by $6.00, it seem to me that this would just cause complete chaos, and everyone would in-turn want their own wages to be raised $6.00/hr which would just entirely defeat the purpose and just make the dollar worth less, driving up prices and doing absolutely nothing.

Am I missing something, or are these people idiots and completely out to lunch?

Sep 28 2013 2:46PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,444
WUT?
Sep 29 2013 8:26PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,444
I live in the US, I get paid in Us dollars, I have to deal with US dollars. What do you want me to measure it in?


I was comparing the two so why wouldn't I measure it in USD? Also something that most people understand. Should I measure it in barrels of cheese?
Sep 29 2013 8:32PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
Hey guys it's a pretty well known fact that you can increase the minimum wage to adjust for inflation ($10.50) without causing long-term inflation. A rise from 7.25 to $10 would be great for the vast majority of people.
Sep 29 2013 8:32PM
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-benedetto
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 1,359
How much goods are actually produced in America? Close to zelch. Higher wages are economically impossible in this retail economy. 40 hour week average should be cut to 30 and give more people jobs. 4 day work weeks also to allow more time for self improvement activities and more time to lit money back into the economy! It's elementary Watson!

Oh yeah and billions on war..let's not go there

Ps. These things are in place to hold us down! The least amount they can pay us? They'd pay us dirt if they could get away with it. How about no minimum and met people decide where they will work?
Sep 29 2013 8:34PM
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Heart
Posts: 6156 - Karma: 3,462
Very flawed logic going on here. You seem to be suggesting that an increase in minimum wage will lead to an equal decrease in purchasing power, effectively maintaining the real value of a minimum wage earner's income. Considering that a very small percentage of Americans earn minimum wage, this would not be the case.
Sep 29 2013 11:15PM
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penguiin
Posts: 1444 - Karma: 561
Raising the minimum wage two dollars doesn't seem like a lot but it's a 27% increase which is actually a shit ton so shut up and listen to one of the most basic economic concepts.
Sep 29 2013 11:22PM
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-benedetto
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 1,359
Causing us to pay someone less in a foreign country..

Sep 30 2013 9:00AM
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MilaKunis
Posts: 1480 - Karma: 3,646
And most economists say it's a good thing that foreign countries are producing goods for such a low cost.
Sep 30 2013 9:17AM
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Wallisch_pl
Posts: 5260 - Karma: 1,022
This, but I agree with that other post.

It wouldn't happen, probably ever, but getting rid of minimum wage workers and say replacing them with "robots" or machines would be great for the economy
Sep 30 2013 10:15AM
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-benedetto
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 1,359
Good for the foreign countries and corporations? Or good for the American economy?
Sep 30 2013 10:38AM
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Kazabazua
Posts: 3529 - Karma: 1,128
You could be right, but I think it will go back up. I sold a bunch of gold coins about 6 months ago at something like $1700/troy ounce, now it's at a measly $1361/TO. Now would be the time to buy if you've got a little extra money.
Sep 30 2013 10:52AM
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Yaraelpoof.png
Posts: 1556 - Karma: 6,417
minimum wage is incentive to work hard and not fuck up so that your children wont grow up on a diet of taco bell
Sep 30 2013 11:17AM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 296
Come on now, raising the MW is neither categorically good nor categorically bad. It will help out some people but it will probably hurt some people as well.
Sep 30 2013 11:26AM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
It cracks me up how some econ majors have offered themselves up as experts on this subject.

It's the age old argument about the value of college education vs practical real world experience. Point of fact that I learned way more about how government intervention impacts hiring from being a Recruiter in Finance and Banking than I ever did from my finance or econ classes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/08/02/the-real-change-in-the-cost-of-a-big-mac-if-mcdonalds-workers-were-paid-15-an-hour-nothing/

The above article is pretty fascinating. The abridged version is that increase in minimum wage will not lead to higher prices for Big Macs, because the price is determined by competition. Still, the cost of goods sold has increased and companies will aggressively pursue means to automate more processes and rely on fewer employees, so unemployment will rise. Something has to give and companies will rely on a leaner workforce.
Sep 30 2013 2:13PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
Good article, but I don't think the point was entirely that the cost of production rising is what will cause the cost of the end product to rise, the point that I was making in driving up prices is that if the minimum wage becomes $15.00/hr, then the going price for a skilled worker will no longer be $15.00, it will be higher, and so-on and so-forth until everything adjusts and the value of the dollar just goes down to compensate and $15.00 becomes the new $7.00. 
Sep 30 2013 5:35PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
So I guess the point I was making is not that the cost of production will go up, but that the cost will remain the same because in order to make it work you'd have to raise all wages and then the value of the dollar would adjust rendering the whole thing pointless and just speeding up inflation. Maybe I'm way off base, but that's what I was getting at.
Sep 30 2013 5:42PM
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histonskiah
Posts: 467 - Karma: 1,834
People should be paid for what they are worth.
Sep 30 2013 6:03PM
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Wallisch_pl
Posts: 5260 - Karma: 1,022
u shud b payd 3 centz
Oct 1 2013 10:08AM
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straightlining
Posts: 238 - Karma: 139

I love living in a country that actually has a minimum wage that allows most people to live above the poverty line.

"Currently the full-time minimum wage is $16.37 per hour or $622.20 per week. This means that most employees in the national system shouldn't get less than this.

Casuals covered by the national minimum wage get an extra 24% ($20.30 per hour)."


'Straya cunts


Oct 1 2013 11:49AM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
but, but, aren't things more expensive in austrailia?
Oct 1 2013 11:55AM
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jca
Posts: 4162 - Karma: 6,261
well, im definitely happy to live in Canada and have my choice of $20/hr labour jobs.

I don't see what's wrong with slight incremental increases in minimum wages though, I saw $7/hr somewhere in this thread!? I don't know what the cost of living is in where ever that is but how is that livable?
In B.C. our min wage went up two dollars or so (dont know exact details) over the course of two years to $10.25. I'm not an econ expert but I don't think a slight raise would have a long term effect on businesses.

But at the same time, people should sack up and move to somewhere where there's work available (hint- oil country) if they really need money, I dont get why people feel so entitled to certain wages when they aren't willing to change jobs or locations for it...
Oct 1 2013 11:55AM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
it's not; so they eat up lots of government programs like food stamps/housing assistance/welfare/unemployment when they lose/quit their shitty job...gg taxpayers
Oct 1 2013 11:58AM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
agreed that minimum wage should get a "COLA" increase every year-- but I felt that the bump to $15 wasn't realistic or doable.
Oct 1 2013 12:25PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
you do realize this wage adjustment was just for the town of Seatac, and not for the cities of Seattle or Tacoma, right?
Oct 1 2013 12:30PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
No that was the first time it was proposed...that was a few months back. It has now been discussed for all of WA state.
Oct 1 2013 12:40PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/09/25/is-seattle-headed-for-a-15-minimum-wage/


Oct 1 2013 12:42PM
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Elmo.
Posts: 4317 - Karma: 663
everyone out west already has high minimum wages. in NH its 7.50 which isnt much.

anyways 15$ is wayyyy to high. even like 12$ is too high. but if it was raised to say like 9$ the effects would be small and i bet most people wouldnt notice much of a difference. for say a pizza that was 10$ that might be 11$ after the increase
Oct 1 2013 1:46PM
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the.hellion.
Posts: 861 - Karma: 698
Chicken or egg?

Did wages increase and then the price of goods went up or did the price of goods go up (perhaps as a result of improved technologies that inherently cost more money to acquire and operate) ?


Inflation produces a constant increase in the cost of goods, if the minimum wage (created to ensure that all people have a basic ability to participate in the economic system) doesn't grow with it then businesses will also lose a lot of money as people will be be unable to afford to go out for dinner, or buy a bigger house.

At the end of the day government intervention can be neither non-existent nor heavy handed. It's always existed in the 'free' market and it always will - and it best be utilized prudently..
Oct 1 2013 3:48PM
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the.hellion.
Posts: 861 - Karma: 698
And wages increased to keep up ?
Oct 1 2013 3:50PM
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AT-AT
Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256
Or don't be afraid to get your hands dirty. Trade workers work their asses off, but they can make bank.
Oct 1 2013 6:03PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
This is very true. You can get pretty worn out though--depending on the work. Additionally, there are management positions available for those with specific trade experience where experience in the field is more important than education. Our Maintenance Manager does not have any post-high school education but he makes about 90k.
Oct 1 2013 6:09PM
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LIL_WAT
Posts: 1900 - Karma: 475
Yes. And just like anywhere else, anyone who can't justify being paid the minimum wage will not be hired. This shit isn't hard to grasp
Oct 1 2013 7:08PM
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jca
Posts: 4162 - Karma: 6,261
totally agree, slight bumps of $.25 or $.50 at a time would be quite feasible but $15 is ridiculous.
Oct 2 2013 9:38AM
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mphL0ck5
Posts: 43 - Karma: 92
The problem isn't the minimum wage, it's inflation.
Why is there inflation? Because the fed is printing more and more money.
Why is the fed printing money? Because the govt is in debt and needs money.
Why is the govt in debt? Because the fed is a private organisation owned by the banking cartel and loans money to the govt at cumulative interest.

So where do you think your tax money goes? Not into govt programs, but into paying back the debt to the private organisation that is the federal reserve.

So end the fed and boom less tax and more money, problem solved.

"The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen.
There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the
International bankers — Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. Pa)
Oct 2 2013 12:11PM
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LIL_WAT
Posts: 1900 - Karma: 475
I'm no supporter of the Federal Reserve, but I think you're misunderstanding its true nature.

First, the notion that the Fed is 'private' is a technicality at best. Yes, the member banks hold stock, but it carries no voting weight. They each have one vote regardless of their size. The stock cannot be sold or traded.

To quote G. Edward Griffin, an author who often speaks out against the Fed : "Stockholders [of the Fed] have none of the usual elements of control that come with ownership and, in fact, they are subservient to the central board. The seven members of the Board of Governors are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. In truth, the Federal Reserve is neither an arm of government nor is it private. It is a hybrid. It is an association of the large commercial banks which has been granted special privileges by Congress. A more accurate description would be simply that it is a cartel protected by federal law."

As for government debt, that has more to do with BIG GOVT, bribing the voters, funding wars, and entitlements all resulting in perpetual deficits (Yes, that includes Clinton) which stack up over time.
Oct 3 2013 4:25AM
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ObiWanKablowme
Posts: 421 - Karma: 539
improved technology SHOULD lower costs in the long run as they improve efficiency if implemented correctly (high initial fixed costs, lower long term marginal costs). more likely that the cost of transportation causes the increase in prices.
Oct 3 2013 9:13AM
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the.hellion.
Posts: 861 - Karma: 698
Point well taken.. I suppose there does need to be a reson to innovate...
Oct 3 2013 9:30AM
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