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Scientific Study on Skier/Snowboarder jumps

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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
(Microryza is basically a Kickstarter for scientific studies and endeavors. I found this project while browsing the site)

I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about this project

https://www.microryza.com/projects/can-we-keep-skiers-and-snowboarders-from-landing-on-their-heads

Watch the video and read its description-- it's basically a study hoping to take a scientific approach to jump design etc and see if there's anything to be learned about it from other approaches

we have everything from half-retarded teenagers who straight destroy the park to older dudes with a more reserved approach so i think we could hear a lot of different perspectives on jump design etc. jon olsson made quite a splash in popularizing stepovers in the JOI style as a relatively safe jump design so as riders we obviously know a bit about these things... do you think valuable information could be gleaned from this project's more academic approach?

(i'd also love to hear from the makers of this project... you'd hope they'd at least been to this site a few times..)
Jul 22 2013 12:46PM
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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
This study could help them get their PhD in Stomponomics
Jul 22 2013 12:48PM
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Wolfgang.
Posts: 807 - Karma: 866
I still need to get my masters in Steezophilia.
Jul 22 2013 3:36PM
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RaphKP
Posts: 77 - Karma: 211
I'm using this as resaerch for my thesis for my masters in styleography.
Jul 22 2013 4:54PM
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Pastucka
Posts: 408 - Karma: 936
In the middle of the last decade David Benedek did a huge amount of research on the perfect kicker shape that allowed snowboarders to hit the jump and spend the maximum tim in the air with the minimum risk. It's documented in one of his videos... maybe 91 Words for Snow or the Red Bull Gap Kicker sessions. He managed to get 4 seconds of airtime from a jump he designed.

THere's a lot that can be improved from the table and cheese wedge design but it takes cat hours and lots of artificial snow or ground work so it's not commercially viable.
Jul 22 2013 5:28PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
oh yeah, i vaguely remember something like "the progression sessions" or something with an equally lame title but yeah super cool stuff. and benedek is the man

i wonder if there's much to be learned beyond "have the landing catch the rider when he doesnt have much downward momentum"
Jul 22 2013 5:31PM
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Miomo
Posts: 4302 - Karma: 14,131
I remember a thread being made for this exact same project a while ago. I guess it didn't work out so well, but it doesn't need money, anyway. Just do some calculations on paper and you'll have your jump.
Jul 22 2013 5:43PM
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Elg
Posts: 2998 - Karma: 3,880
Torstein Horgmo speaks the truth

http://youtu.be/GU1Qd_Jww74

Jul 22 2013 5:45PM
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Jibberino
Posts: 2088 - Karma: 1,333
Here's another thread on it.

Jul 22 2013 5:45PM
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Afterbang.no
Posts: 1105 - Karma: 4,297
^^omg, both way trip!
Jul 22 2013 5:55PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15949 - Karma: 9,431
That's crazy. I'd watch a documentary on that if it existed.
Jul 22 2013 7:49PM
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Daski
Posts: 658 - Karma: 2,316
Im still working on my bachelors of Afterbang
Jul 22 2013 7:54PM
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GrahamGould
Posts: 713 - Karma: 2,439
this could potentially introduce some crazy new features into the sport. But, unless these guys are going to be able to be the first ones to build them, it wont ever really change anything.
Jul 22 2013 9:19PM
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Miomo
Posts: 4302 - Karma: 14,131
I still need my highschool diploma.
Jul 22 2013 9:41PM
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-603-
Posts: 129 - Karma: 171
You comment that in every thread...give it a break
Jul 22 2013 11:41PM
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Pastucka
Posts: 408 - Karma: 936
Yeah it's not particularly complex. Using the trajectory of the take-off, the distance you want to travel, the proposed step-down and acceleration due to gravity (9.81m/s^2) you can calculate the speed at which you'll need to hit the kicker and you'll be able to determine the time in the air. The math isn't too complicated.

When it comes to standard kickers in the park is there anything more optimum than a kicker than gives you huge airtime and puts you at minimum risk if you get it wrong? Step-ups are by far the safest jumps because they eliminate any impact from the landing... providing you make the landing.
Jul 23 2013 4:15AM
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Pastucka
Posts: 408 - Karma: 936
Here's some info that Whitelines mag pulled together. The stuff about David Benedek is at the end. Whitelines Kickers That Changed SNowboarding
Jul 23 2013 4:21AM
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DaneKirk
Posts: 366 - Karma: 2,054
I hear leaving the middle of the landing in helps.
Click for larger image
Jul 23 2013 4:36AM
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DaneKirk
Posts: 366 - Karma: 2,054
Click for larger image
Jul 23 2013 4:38AM
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pj21
Posts: 400 - Karma: 4,635
i really hope this happens
Jul 23 2013 5:05AM
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Jibberino
Posts: 2088 - Karma: 1,333
You might think of it differently if you read through the other thread i posted.
Jul 23 2013 5:29AM
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Pastucka
Posts: 408 - Karma: 936
Got a link?

Ok it's not really simple but it's just a calculation. Here's the calculation. When you start thinking about wind resistance it gets more difficult to calculate... No XXL clothing allowed for safety reasons, or XXL riders need to hike another 20ft. Of course building it and designing it are completely different.
Jul 23 2013 5:59AM
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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
I heard this guy doesn't have his PhD in Stomponomics yet, I wouldn't trust this source
Jul 23 2013 6:01AM
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Jibberino
Posts: 2088 - Karma: 1,333
https://www.newschoolers.com/ns/forums/readthread/thread_id/750025/
Jul 23 2013 6:08AM
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Pastucka
Posts: 408 - Karma: 936
Yeah granted, if you were to design the ultimate jump with a 1m landing then you'd need your calculations to be that exact. If you want to throw a ton more variables in there like the snow conditions or wax on the base of the ski you can make it even more complicated. Or you could just make the landing sweet spot as long as possible so that it can tolerate someone scrubbing speed and absorbing the transition, or somebody boosting from the run-in spot with crazy pop. I think you could probably make some assumptions about the worst case scenarios and work this into the calculations. Regarding G-Force in the transition... that's also completely dependent on the skier. I can't take sh*t but McRae has piston legs... find a middle ground and you have challenging but rideable jump. The G-Force question would make a pretty funny test with some quality outtakes of people crumpling under the pressure.

A mix of fairly basic balistic calculations and experience is probably the best combination for designing the best jump shape.
Jul 23 2013 6:28AM
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sNaubi
Posts: 1633 - Karma: 2,357
This.


also, I see you sigged me ;)
Jul 23 2013 9:44AM
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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
I've been looking for who said it. THANKS
Jul 23 2013 10:32AM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
I got to pick the brain of the guy who built the kicker for Denver Big Air. I always thought that builders tried to get a somewhat consistent radius for the profile of the jump like they do with skate park features. This guy intentionally lipped up the last few feet a little. Guys that hit jumps with a neutral or even slight negative pop, have a lower longer flight. To reduce the risk of over shoot for guys who pop neutral or negative, he creates an artificial pop with the slightly enhanced lip. The feedback I got from the guys hitting it was all good.

One of the best ways to build safer jumps is to stop building step downs. All they do is increase the risk without any more air time. Anything you can do on a step down, you can do on a good step over with a really rounded knuckle. I have gotten feedback from several pros who feel the same way about this.
Jul 23 2013 10:39AM
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Jibberino
Posts: 2088 - Karma: 1,333
Seeing that I work in a park myself, I agree with you a lot of the way. But like the OP said in the other thread, having such precise calculations might help defend resorts from ridiculous law suits, something all North American resorts are scared shitless of. I was sceptical like you in the beginning, but I have to admit that the guy has got some points, it will be interesting to see what comes of it.
Jul 24 2013 4:26AM
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Pastucka
Posts: 408 - Karma: 936
Didn't the last thread say that the calculations could be used by lawyers to back lawsuits?

Good point though, if a resort uses advanced calculations to plan jumps and mark the drop-in point then I guess it's stacks the evidence in their favor. i would guess the health insurance companies funding these lawsuits to reclaim their expenses have probably got deeper pockets than the resorts... but just because you can design a jump to a perfect shape doesn't mean you can shape it to that design.
Jul 24 2013 12:31PM
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