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Quiver Killers

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esotericjive
Posts: 1889 - Karma: 1,445
I'm looking to buy some quiver killers for my Jeronimos and blue steeles. I broke a jeronimo, and am planning to fix it, but I'd rather not use it in the park in the future for fear of breaking it further.
I have a pair of FKS 140s currently on the Jmos, and the steeles are already drilled for that binding and my BSL. How difficult is installing the inserts? I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, and I have a small drill press as well as a usable shop area, but I don't want to wreck my skis. Is it something I should ask my local shop to do?
Also, what are the differences between QKs and bindingfreedom?
Feb 4 2013 12:32PM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,956
Go with binding freedom. I have heard They both are designed by the same guy. But that guy uses BF
Feb 4 2013 12:36PM
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KyleA
Posts: 865 - Karma: 510
Since your holes are already drilled, it's a very simple install.  You just have to redrill the existing holes to 1/4" and tap them.  I use quiver killers, because I can buy them locally, and you can get the mounting hardware from nut and bolt supply for about $2.  I have never used binding freedoms, but I like the notch they have in them in case you need to back the insert out for some reason.  I have never had to, but I don't know how you would back out a quiver killer if you didn't drill deep enough or something.  Binding freedom also gives you hex head screws which is nice if you are swapping bindings a lot.  I would also suggest ordering more inserts and screws than you need.  Some of the inserts are bound to be unusable, and the screw count may be off as well.  
Feb 4 2013 12:49PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
FWIW, do not use Loctite on your inserts.  Blue Loctite can degrade certain types of plastics if it comes into contact with them.

Oh, and Jon from Binding Freedom designed the inserts. QK just ripped off the idea and design. 
Feb 4 2013 1:52PM
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SamtheEagle
Posts: 1658 - Karma: 713
The guy who designed them is active on TGR and there is a thread exactly about this (I looked yesterday before deciding to go with binding freedom). Apparently the threads are forged better on binding freedom which makes them stronger but they are esentially the same thing and for 99% of people both will work perfectly
Feb 4 2013 10:29PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
I have Binding Freedom inserts. Jon is active on TGR and responds well to questions/comments. He also sells screw kits for select binders (like the FKS re-issue) and has a large table of screw lengths for many more. Great to order from.
Feb 4 2013 11:32PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Jon over at:

http://bindingfreedom.com/

Is the absolute fucking MAN! Manufactured with rolled threads so theyre stronger then the quiver killer inserts (which are machine cut threads) great price, great tools, and the guy has awesome customer service. Sent me a follow up email wondering how I liked the product and everything, super nice guy. Nice to know that someone will look after you even after your purchase. His paper templates are absolute money as well (well they are actually free so thats even better)

Pics of the mounting process and the drill and tap, with binding freedom inserts in this thread here:

https://www.newschoolers.com/ns/forums/readthread/thread_id/651776/page/4/

Id honestly rate the whole system at a 10 out of 10. Stoked with how well my mount turned out with Jons inserts. This was also my first mount ever to be honesty with you, and compared to some practice mounts I did with traditional screws, it was wayyyy easier. I found it easier then waxing and tuning skis. But I suck at tuning so thats probably why.
Feb 4 2013 11:42PM
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esotericjive
Posts: 1889 - Karma: 1,445
Thanks for the help +k to all
Probably going with binding freedom, will let you know how it goes
Feb 5 2013 10:17AM
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Ducky.
Posts: 5811 - Karma: 1,420
With the Quiver Killers/Binding Freedom kits, can you interchange touring bindings with normal bindings?
Feb 5 2013 1:42PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Depending on the mounting paterns and mounting locations you intend to use, yes, Im pretty sure you can.
Feb 5 2013 1:47PM
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Kimmler
Posts: 1316 - Karma: 625
not trying to thread hack here, and i hope this isn't a stupid question but would these work for park skis? didn't know if it would hinder performance or be bad for the skis or whatever.
Feb 5 2013 3:01PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
You can put inserts in skis for multiple hole patterns, sure. I'm about to do this on my Caylors for FKS and Radicals. It's 16 holes/ski (aka a buttload), but it's been documented on TGR and I haven't seen any issues posted about it. I'll report back afterwards haha.

Binding Freedom also makes swap plated that are threaded for 2 hole patterns (DynaLook, SollyFit, DynaDuke). They add stiffness underfoot (users say...I have no personal experience), and increase the stack height by 6mm (the same as MFD plates).
Feb 5 2013 5:04PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
Sure, why not? Inserts are stronger than binding screws. If you had 1 pair of park skis and 1 pair of powder boards, you could swap 1 pair of binders between them and save yourself the most of the cost of a new pair of binders.
Feb 5 2013 5:06PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Yeah, Im' riding exclusively on park skis with binding inserts. Only had a few nights riding with them so far so I can't say too much about them, but I doubt they're going to fail.

Theoretically they also provide a stronger mount. Because of a binding inserts larger diameter then a binding screw, there is more surface area gripping the wood, and in the end a better and stronger mount. All you need to know is that they work though.
Feb 5 2013 6:48PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
Bingo. And remember to use a little locktite on the screws when they go into the inserts.
Feb 5 2013 9:54PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
NO!

See my post above.  DO NOT USE LOCTITE 242 ON BINDINGS. 

There is a thread on TGR about it.  Jon from BindingFreedom no longer sells Loctite 242 with with kits because it states very cleary on the package not to use with some plastics.  He recommends the use of Vibra-tite or a special use Loctite425(it's hard to find).

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/254776-Has-anyone-had-binding-plastic-crack-when-using-loctite-for-plates-or-inserts
Feb 6 2013 10:27AM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Yeah Im using the plastic safe loctite. I think it's made for threading plastic into plastic but eh, it works. I haven't had any issues with screws backing out.
Feb 6 2013 11:23AM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
Sorry I use that term for all the threadlocking compounds. Thanks for the clarification. I actually have the Vibratite that Jon sells.


Again thanks for the clarification.
Feb 6 2013 9:12PM
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derek.urben
Posts: 314 - Karma: 386

2 questions

Do I need to buy new screws for my bindings to fit the thread inside the insert?

And my skis are curently centered mounted for park so would i have to move the insert holes back like 2 cm?

Feb 22 2013 10:05AM
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Shifties4Dayz
Posts: 1657 - Karma: 553
you broke a jmo? i broke 2 in the last month.
Feb 22 2013 10:27AM
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KyleA
Posts: 865 - Karma: 510
You need to use M5 machine screws to mount your bindings with the inserts.  You can most likely find what you need at your local fastener store for less than $2.

You can just redrill and tap your existing holes for inserts.  Existing holes should actually make things easier for you assuming they were drilled with a jig.
Feb 22 2013 12:00PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
I would recommend getting the screws from Jon directly. It isn't any more expensive to get them from his site (I went to Lowe's for some M5s yesterday because I needed 2 extras ASAP) and they are much better fitted for binders. When I order screws from Binding Freedom, I know that they have been tested and optimised for the bindings that I am purchasing them for (he has a large chart for which screws correspond to which binders).
Feb 22 2013 12:26PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
im thinking that ill start using them next year if i get fks. seems like a good way to eliminate the need to completely remount if you replace a brake
Feb 22 2013 8:46PM
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derek.urben
Posts: 314 - Karma: 386
How hard are they to install, I have some wood working and I build ski rails and boxes a lot.
Feb 22 2013 10:34PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
Easy.

I used a jig to drill pilot holes (doing it freehand would work too).
Then I used the appropriate drill bit (sold by Binding Freedom) in a drill press so that the holes were as close to plumb as possible.
Then I tapped those holes with the tap sold by Binding Freedom and used a tapped plastic cutting board for a guide.
I did a dry mount of everything (inserts, binders, M5 bolts) to make sure it worked. Then I put 24 hour marine epoxy in the holes and put the inserts in. The entire process takes only a little longer than it takes me to mount skis freehand.
Feb 22 2013 10:48PM
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derek.urben
Posts: 314 - Karma: 386
Is there a step by step that comes with them or is it all you?
Feb 22 2013 11:57PM
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Feign
Posts: 28 - Karma: 53
More or less all you, however Jondrums of TGR has instructional videos I believe.
Feb 23 2013 1:43AM
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KyleA
Posts: 865 - Karma: 510
Lowes is not a fastener store.  Bolt and Nut Supply and Fastener Engineering are.  I only didn't buy from him initially because over a week after I ordered, he told me he was out of 10mm flathead screws for my Salomon Guardian kit and it would take several weeks for him to get them in.  So I went to Bolt and Nut Supply and got the exact stainless steel, allen drive, 10mm flathead screws I would have gotten from him at a price of $0.12 per screw.  That is substantially cheaper than the $10 for a set that Binding Freedom charges.  I'm all about supporting small, U.S. companies, but I have little tolerance for poor customer service and incompetence. 

On a side note, I have found the chart to not be accurate at all for mounting older FKS bindings.
Feb 23 2013 10:05AM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
Fair point. He has always responded to me quickly so I have no qualms. The FKS kit is slightly incorrect, yes. This has been documented on TGR (and Jon has responded to it by changing the kits).
Feb 24 2013 6:41PM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,956
Bump.

I was wondering if most shops will mount inserts to the hole pattern of the binding, or if I will have to get Bindings mounted, take them home and buy a install kit, take off the bindings, and install the inserts myself.
May 12 2013 7:28PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
I'd imagine a shop would install them, maybe at an additional cost. In all honesty I find using inserts easier and prefer it to using screws. Just drilling a larger hole, and using an insert that has more surface area than a screw just makes them easier. They do require a more square and precise mount though. You could also install them after a shop mounts them, but it is a bit of a pain to drill into the old holes as the drillbit will really want to grab. At least that's what I had found.
May 12 2013 9:17PM
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