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March, 2024

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Thank you, Glenn Beck

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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
Has anyone seen what everyone's favorite super-crazy TV personality has been talking about recently? he wants to make an ayn rand/atlas shrugged inspired self sustaining community called Independence USA (google it, i dont want to choose what article you read).

not only does it sound suspiciously like a commune, it's a win-win for anyone with a brain because we'll get to watch it a) never happen cause it's a stupid fucking idea, b) happen then fail immediately or c) happen and crash spectacularly, and maybe some of you brainless atlas shrugged humpers might even realize how fucking retarded you sound when you talk about this book around adults

ideally, the US would build a wall around the place and actually let them see how far they get believing theyre better off without everyone else/taxes/our infrastructure/police etc. of course, the whole thing happening is about as likely as Beck following through with his waterboarding thing, but hey one can dream.

thoughts?
Jan 15 2013 2:36PM
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562056961108
Posts: 0 - Karma: 575
Well, I'm a fan of Atlas Shrugged, and not a fan of Glenn Beck... so lets break this down a bit.

Glenn Beck is doing it wrong. Glenn is taking Ayn Rand's novel and assuming the retraction of the innovative and productive from society is a physical move... when in fact it is the choice of the innovative and productive to not contribute to the society in which they currently belong or reside. While Ayn Rand's novel is dated, the premise of the innovative and productive retreating from society is incredibly valid. Globalization is proving this is a big way... why do many rich folks have bank accounts in Switzerland and the Caymen Islands? Why does a very large chunk of TransOcean (multinational drilling org) and Oracle (software company) maintain most of their patents overseas? Folks and corporations are increasingly moving their important intellectual property and human capital resources to where it is most productive for those folks to reside, cost the least from taxes, and add the largest marginal benefit.

Is Glenn Beck doing it wrong? Absolutely. Is Ayn Rand's universe excluding the switching costs of moving away from the place where folks currently reside? probably. Is she forgetting that things like climate and social connections play a role in one's propensity to keep slogging through a shitty situation? also, probably.

But is her assertion that the innovative and productive will contribute less or stop contributing entirely to a society economically, politically, and socially in the face of bureaucratic red tape and deliberate re-distribution of hard won profits? My estimation is yes. Why do you think you see a large disparity in incomes between the "rich" and the "poor"? Why do you increasingly see investment in capital markets overseas and a reluctance of storied US corporations to hire and spend capital here in the United States? Why is the Congress increasingly partisan on the debt ceiling and tax code reformation?

These things are interconnected. Rand makes the assertion that a government that respects the individual's ability to decide his or her self worth with minimal to no government interference via taxation and overbearing regulation is a government that will have the most political power, economic prosperity and social stability. And I tend to ascribe to that theory.

If you want to attack that viewpoint, feel free, I'm ready to defend my position. The long decline of a nation is the most dangerous... it is sometimes impossible to measure unless you have decades. I'm interested in preventing that long decline.
Jan 15 2013 2:58PM
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Ryan.Street
Posts: 444 - Karma: 20
Let it happen! It would be nice to put all the crazy people in one spot so the rest of the country could keep an eye on them.
Jan 15 2013 3:05PM
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ChungBol
Posts: 1075 - Karma: 34

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Jan 15 2013 3:10PM
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DUKES
Posts: 5149 - Karma: 686
What exactly makes them "crazy." Some people such as Glenn Beck believe in small government and supports small businesses unlike our government. Glenn Beck doesnt think taxes are right? Shit and neither do I. Do I want the government to take my hard earned money and bail out a company that ends up failing soon after. FUCK NO. Glenn Beck wants to try an idea of a society that lives with out taxes and  more power to the people instead of one major power. I think it will be interesting
Jan 15 2013 3:46PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Fuck your father. I think it's a great idea.
Jan 15 2013 4:01PM
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andrew.ski
Posts: 368 - Karma: 69
agreed.


At the very least, we could make a damn good reality show out of the whole thing and bolster the economy a bit through TV viewership and the money marketing would make off of it.
Jan 15 2013 4:05PM
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Ryan.Street
Posts: 444 - Karma: 20
This. You don't like big business?

I wouldn't mind if I could opt out of paying for Social Security because I don't care about old people but that doesn't mean I am going to go bat shit about it. I am just gonna pay what I need to pay to keep living in America.
Jan 15 2013 4:08PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
In order to fund obamacare spending that will take over 100 percent of what you earn
Jan 15 2013 4:13PM
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DUKES
Posts: 5149 - Karma: 686
I don't like big business or big government at all.
Jan 15 2013 4:15PM
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Ryan.Street
Posts: 444 - Karma: 20
You don't like skiing Vail Resorts?
Jan 15 2013 4:17PM
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BlackCupid
Posts: 1533 - Karma: 9
OP sounds like a 12 year-old.
Jan 15 2013 4:19PM
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Ryan.Street
Posts: 444 - Karma: 20
Also, I shouldn't have said "crazy." I should have said people with different opinions as me
Jan 15 2013 4:35PM
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DUKES
Posts: 5149 - Karma: 686
No Comment.
Jan 15 2013 4:38PM
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volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
I am not a math expert, but I am pretty sure they can't take more than 100%.
Jan 15 2013 4:40PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Glen Beck behind a walled community? Whats bad about that?
Jan 15 2013 4:53PM
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562056961108
Posts: 0 - Karma: 575
El Gato: not to go too far down the rabbit hole here, but...

I'm of the belief that government is pretty good at doing large infrastructure projects, public defense, education, sewage, etc. (see: hoover dam, manhattan project, NYC, ad nauseum)...

I'm really against entitlement programs... account for more than 40% of government spending. I don't expect to even breakeven in future value terms when it comes to the dollars i pay into medicare and social security (medicare goes bankrupt in 2028, Soc. Sec. in 2048). These need to change in a big way.

I hate the fact that we've continued "emergency" unemployment benefits for so long, that we've contributed to ineffective social programs and to failing alternative energy companies (not large research initiatives really bothers me. This is not fiscally responsible.

I am a believer in the individual in a big way, and leave the government to the larger tasks of defense, infrastructure, education etc.

TL;DR: fuck entitlement programs, they are ponzi schemes that will lead to the demise of our democracy.


Jan 15 2013 5:10PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
That's what I'm saying. If everybody payed 100 percent of what they earned it still wouldn't cover obamacare spending
Jan 15 2013 5:32PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
I don't know about you, but I'm from that weird faction of society who like having emergency services, education, defense....
Jan 15 2013 5:39PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Yeah else gato doesn't seem to understand the difference between gov providing the things it does best, sewage, nat defense etc, from the things gov does horribly, Over regulation, entitlements, bailouts, and a 4000 page healthcare bill. Who the fuck is supposed to read 4000 pages? Bills like this are a huge burden on business and along with the other tens of thousands if pages of legislation are choking our economy. 4000 fucking pages? Are business owners just supposed to read all that shit for free? Think of how many hours someone would lose reading all of it? Whoever reads it could be doing more productive things like saving lives in the hospital etc. thanks alot government!
Jan 15 2013 5:42PM
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Abu_Hajaar
Posts: 2747 - Karma: 3,890
The problem is in order for your taxes to get from your wallet to fixing that pothole they go through a bunch of unelected bureaucrats who all take a nice cut because we are so corrupted.
Jan 15 2013 5:42PM
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Bubba-Snax
Posts: 541 - Karma: 11
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Jan 15 2013 5:57PM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2715 - Karma: 32,906
High school kids and college freshmen are so smart about how this world runs. I for one say go for it beck no one cares what he does besides the stupid people that follow his show. I listened to the guy for a year just to see what all the hype was about him and he is just a sell out media whore that says thing to get people scared so they buy his shit. This whole thing just sounds like another way for him to make more money and to have people follow him blindly.
Jan 15 2013 5:58PM
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wootang
Posts: 284 - Karma: 404
Most intelligent thing I have ever read on NS. I'm in the process of considering moving my company to CO from CA. The difference in tax liability alone is making a compelling case for taking 110 jobs out of CA....then there's the snow.
Jan 15 2013 6:15PM
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562056961108
Posts: 0 - Karma: 575
How bout you hire me then? I live in Denver. PM me.
Jan 15 2013 6:17PM
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284
yeah man, if you don't have a big federal gov then you can't have any of those services.
Jan 15 2013 6:21PM
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Lucas
Posts: 4877 - Karma: 1,518
Taxes are good they just need to make everything privatized instead of having shitty government jobs that are inefficient and waste money.
Jan 15 2013 6:22PM
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DUKES
Posts: 5149 - Karma: 686
the government was created just for defense not to regulate our economy, education, healthcare. each state should be responsible for their own people, their own economy, their own healthcare.
Jan 15 2013 6:27PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Awe are you sad about being a second class human? There there
Jan 15 2013 6:34PM
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gotti
Posts: 4269 - Karma: 4,548
Couldn't agree more. If I can't save up for my own retirement, then i should continue to work. Working hard and earning your way is better than some earning their way but having it taken away to pay for those who expect handouts.
Jan 15 2013 6:37PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
The us gov has made it extremely hard to move money overseas. You are literally trapped in america
Jan 15 2013 6:40PM
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHA!
Jan 15 2013 7:00PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
haha okay bud, be sure to bump this thread when this pipe dream comes to fruition and actually succeeds. you'll forgive me if i dont hold my breath, of course


@huckcliffs: i completely understand that beck's idea of libertarianism and rand's work is a total bastardization, but i still disagree with some of what you said. i can only be online for a few minutes right now but if you really want ill respond later to what you said


@accuallyisdolan:
thanks for the PM:

accualyisdolan --> RubberSoul
Your a fucking bum and your parents deserve to be poor

actually*

you're*

my parents make ~275ish and i do pretty well for a recent college grad, as if that's relevant here

tell you what, you learn to spell simple words and graduate high school, then i'll send you a link to career opportunities at Beck's company. im sure theyre always looking for brain dead retards to fill their ranks
Jan 15 2013 7:23PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
I was talking about your intelligence you fucking retard
Jan 15 2013 7:35PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
You want to become a teacher... That's suiting you liberal fuck
Jan 15 2013 7:37PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Also mommy and daddy must be so proud. Their little liberal tool wants to become a teacher. What kind of science you interested in my teenage friend?
Jan 15 2013 7:39PM
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562056961108
Posts: 0 - Karma: 575
Dude, when you type / talk like that, and don't provide evidence to support your argument, you realize it makes you sound stupid right?
Jan 15 2013 7:40PM
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562056961108
Posts: 0 - Karma: 575
RubberSoul:

No worries, glad we can have intelligent discussion. Post whenever suits you.
Jan 15 2013 7:41PM
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562056961108
Posts: 0 - Karma: 575
Same to you Arabian... clean it up... intelligent respectful discussion changes minds and encourages creative thinking.

Don't do it for the forums, do it for yourself
Jan 15 2013 7:42PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
yup.
Jan 15 2013 7:43PM
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DubV134
Posts: 1541 - Karma: 690
pics or GTFO!!! show me some fuckin cars, or jets or some wild shit
Jan 15 2013 7:47PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,007
Since its a regressive tax, make enough money past the cap and you'll get your wish.
Jan 15 2013 8:17PM
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BlackCupid
Posts: 1533 - Karma: 9
Disagreeing with Glenn Beck's opinion doesn't make you a 12 year-old. The fact that makes you a 12 year-old is that you think everybody who sympathizes with Beck is a moron. Give me a break dude. People aren't stupid just because they disagree with you. That's an extremely puerile worldview. Most people get over that shit when they're like 16.

Maybe if people were disagreeing with facts, you'd have a case. But right now, any opinion on Beck's plan is pure speculation.
Jan 15 2013 9:18PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
disagreeing with me/having libertarian/small government beliefs doesnt make you stupid, there are tons of people whose lib/small gov arguments are totally intelligent and arguable, i just happen to disagree with them, it's subjective at some point.

people who consider themselves fans of glenn beck are just plain retarded and are only "small government" when it suits them, right wing nutjobs/conspiracy theorists the rest of the time

don't give me this wannabe mature shit when your only contribution to the thread before now was "OP is 12." give me a break

if you really think that glenn beck's little pipe dream here is a serious idea that can and will actually happen and succeed youre crazy. this thread isnt an attack on libertarianism like you'd like to pretend, it's an attack on the people who make me feel sorry for normal right wingers with actual arguments and philosophies that arent based on novels and tv fear mongers



Jan 15 2013 9:42PM
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NBCskier
Posts: 3877 - Karma: -289
...and who the fuck spells Anne/Ann fuckin 'ayn'.
Jan 15 2013 10:22PM
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NBCskier
Posts: 3877 - Karma: -289
And if her name isn't supposed to be anne, what the fuck type of name ayn?
Jan 15 2013 10:23PM
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BlackCupid
Posts: 1533 - Karma: 9
"people who consider themselves fans of glenn beck are just plain retarded"

No. Don't say that. That makes you sound childish.

"are only "small government" when it suits them"

Different arguement, but they exist in every party and they suck. I agree.

"don't give me this wannabe mature shit when your only contribution to the thread before now was "OP is 12." give me a break"

ignored.


"if you really think that glenn beck's little pipe dream here is a serious idea"

Never said that.

"youre crazy. "

This is what I'm talking about. You haven't even seen it in action yet. You're discrediting it without even giving it a chance. Not very scientific.

I'm drunk. So if my response doesn't make any sense at some point, just ignore it. Bless your soul. God doesn't exist.


Jan 15 2013 11:23PM
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