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Why Freeze is gone-my opinion

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h3ofilms
Posts: 4214 - Karma: 12
When I heard about Freeze dying today (by phonecall) the first thing I thought about was this

I have at least two 'free year subscriptions' from different movies/places. Now how many of you are reading this years Freeze on a freebie subscription? It seems like wherever you go, you can get it free. Buy X, free freeze. Go to a movie premier and buy an old vhs ski movie for 10 bucks, free Freeze. Buy Volume vid mag, free Freeze

In such a niche market as freeskiing, I dont think you can give away your product as frequently as Freeze did and still make money. Events like Parkasaurus/US Open/East Coast Open..while they all produce revenue, they still cost money. Add that in with the cost of producing a magazine, sending photographers on location, paying the payroll, ect..thats alotta cash. Sure you get a good amount back from advertising, but still.

Just my thought, but I think Freeze gave away too many subcriptions for free. I havent paid for a copy of Freeze in years because of the mass amount of free subscriptions that are around. Some people I know have a free subscription for the next 4 years (now useless)

its VERY unfortunate Freeze will be no more, but you really cant fault transworld.
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Nov 2 2004 2:16PM
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Crystal-needs-a-park
Posts: 9939 - Karma: 15
well im faulting them, because if i were a marketing guy at time4 id give a call to mikah or whoever at freeze and be like get your ass in gear and stop giving things away and get some cash. but we got fucked instead.
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Nov 2 2004 2:18PM
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ride4frnt
Posts: 315 - Karma: 37
sadly, i agree. very poor business.
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Nov 2 2004 2:18PM
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Skier10322
Posts: 2170 - Karma: 145
the press release says its based on circulation not revenue. I know that may or may not be accurate but if it was what you suggested Anthony might be the opposite of the problem.

These magazines make most money off adds, not subscriptions.
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Teddy
Member Number: 431
Nov 2 2004 2:20PM
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Towers
Posts: 22 - Karma: 10
TW owns the magazine, that generally means all decisions go through them. It's not like the editors thoguht it would be sweet to print up a bunch of free subscription vouchers and hand them out.

When you're part of a large publication company all that matters are your distro numbers, thats why subscriptions are so cheap compared to buying off the rack. The majority of the money is made through advertizing and the higher your circulation, the more you can charge people to run ads.
Nov 2 2004 2:22PM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
just means more room for SBC Skier to shine in all its glory
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Nov 2 2004 2:22PM
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destroy
Posts: 6665 - Karma: 12
^exactly. im sure that they werent giving away so many subscriptions that they were actually losing money on it.

i dont know if its just me, or does it seem like the number of free subscriptions available this year has doubled. i personally have 3 free freeze subscriptions right now. mabye they started to give away so many this year to get people to buy stuff, since they knew they werent going to be around to actually send them out

-L o g a n

~{*NWFT*}~
Nov 2 2004 2:23PM
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h3ofilms
Posts: 4214 - Karma: 12
Yeah I read that, but I dont understand how circulation could be down? Its not like any of us stopped reading Freeze, so I dont understand how their numbers went down. With all the free subscriptions, I would think circulation would be UP. I think it might be a case of more circulation with less money coming in for the amount of mags they were sending out.

Clearly this is all speculation on my part. But it seems with freeskiing getting bigger every year, I dont see how circulation of Freeze could have diminished. Maybe they overstated their projections of industry growth and didnt meet circulation on a projected number and advertisers jumped off when they didnt meet their number, which would result in a loss of capital
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Nov 2 2004 2:25PM
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destroy
Posts: 6665 - Karma: 12
my exactly was supposed to be pointing to what crystal-needs-a-park said

-L o g a n

~{*NWFT*}~
Nov 2 2004 2:27PM
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pocket-rocket
Posts: 4443 - Karma: 0
In fact, free subscribtion arent free. For example, a movie company that gives free freeze subscribtion pays exactly 7$ us to freeze to give this freebie to the buyew. So it isnt really free from freeze.


Liberty Skis
WWW.LIBERTYSKIS.COM
WWW.OAKLEY.COM
Nov 2 2004 2:28PM
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teamdummy
Posts: 1187 - Karma: 2,595
correct me if i am wrong, but didnt freeze used to be an independent publication. and it was bought by transworld who is now killing it. now why shouldnt i be pissed at transworld?
Nov 2 2004 2:30PM
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h3ofilms
Posts: 4214 - Karma: 12
even if they are paying 7 dollars..whats subscription price, 20 bucks? thats 13 dollars of missing revenue. I know so many people who get multiple copies to the same name and address for free..someone had to pick up on the fact that they were sending out multiple copies to kids that werent even paying? thats a mass loss of cash
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Nov 2 2004 2:32PM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
at the ecmt in boston last week they were giving away boxes and boxes and boxes of the mag. same with the uvm show. i'm sure it is like that at every show. i also was getting 2 mags sent to my house last year. just one this year, but i haven't paid for a freeze subscription since 2000, and that was all of like $12 for a year

h3o films
Nov 2 2004 2:47PM
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JohnnyOldGuy
Posts: 350 - Karma: 35
Something to consider....Time owns the 2 largest ski publications. Probably didn't make much sense to have #4 too....esp if they are trying to make Skiing magazine cool.
Nov 2 2004 2:54PM
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lanks
Posts: 12543 - Karma: 72
uh oh. old guy is right...



-Joel

'I was in the waiting room of my doctor's office before a physical this morning. There's nothing wrong with me, but healthy people get physicals just-for-the-hey-of-it every couple of days. When they finally mispronounced my name, I got up and walked down a hall with a nurse. After a while, the doctor came in and inspected my holes. He said that I should lose weight and consider stop smoking. I blew smoke in his face and explained that he is a douche bag. We all had a good laugh and he agreed.' -Skydaddy
Nov 2 2004 3:05PM
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Joe.
Posts: 2888 - Karma: 24
DUDE!!!!!!!!! are we gonna get freeze for the rest of hte year or not?



Bush/Cheney '04


my mom plucks my ball hair at night when im sleeping and glues them to her eyesbrows cuz she had a terrible camping incident when she was younger and her eyebrows never grew back, shes been doing this since i was 13 im gonna have to start chargin that fat bitch for my hair
-lateralis


Nov 2 2004 3:10PM
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whiteout
Posts: 189 - Karma: 18
H30 you are a naive and ignorant piece of shit.

Magazine revenue comes from advertisers, NOT subscriptions.

Transworld pulled the plug on Freeze for the wrong reasons, and they are ENTIRELY at fault.

TW Media, go fuck yourself.
Nov 2 2004 3:12PM
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Joe.
Posts: 2888 - Karma: 24
GUYS also transworld is owned by AOL Time Warner....which is HUGEEEEEEEEE this is bullshit and im pissed



Bush/Cheney '04


my mom plucks my ball hair at night when im sleeping and glues them to her eyesbrows cuz she had a terrible camping incident when she was younger and her eyebrows never grew back, shes been doing this since i was 13 im gonna have to start chargin that fat bitch for my hair
-lateralis


Nov 2 2004 3:14PM
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CorkWormTurn
Posts: 1724 - Karma: 12
as several other people have said, revenue comes from advertising, not subscriptions.

think about it. take a really financially healthy magazine, that charges 20$ a year for 12 issues. that leaves around 1.70 to print a full glossy magazine, and mail it. Then consider paying for photos from freelancers, paying staff, renting office space, travel budgets, etc. Subscriptions basically do nothing for a magazine.

I don't know if, or why freeze is gettin pulled. But it isn't becaues of giving the magazine away. If anything, that increases their readerbase, and makes the statistics they send to advertisers look better.
Nov 2 2004 3:31PM
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telestar6
Posts: 2102 - Karma: 44
Okay I think I have a little insite into this idea. Magaze much of their money on subcriptions or selling mags on newstands. They make their money on adverisers. The more people who read their mag the more advertisers are willing to pay to have ads published in the mag. So it is actually to Freeze's benefit to give out lots of free subscriptions. That way they can show their clients that they have a lot of readers.

I think rails in general are just a phase. - Anthony Boronowski

D-loc's picture looks like a monkey smoking that cig. If you had a mug like that would you really want everyone to see it.
Nov 2 2004 3:36PM
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Big_Willy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 6
THE POINT OF GIVING AWAY FREE SUBSCRIBTIONS IS TO INCREASE CIRCULATION! Losing a few dollars because someone gets a free mag or subscribtion doesnt mean much when you increase circulation. More circulation means more ad revenue, thats where the money is made.



'I would be embarrassed to constantly complain about my life considering all the freedom and opportunities we have today. People that can't find anything they enjoy in life simply aren't giving it a real try.' ~Nick 311
Nov 2 2004 3:42PM
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freelowda
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 1,583
transworld snowboarding does the SAME subscription deal with the movies they sponsor...and you can believe thats a shitload more free ones than Freeze ever gave out. thats not bad business, its promotional, and had nothing to to with Time4's filthy shakedown. Transworld is part of one of the largest media conglomorates in our country. Freeze mag and its staff on their scale was like a tick on an elephant. But, i think the fockers at transworld better feel the BURN for this.
Nov 2 2004 3:43PM
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h3ofilms
Posts: 4214 - Karma: 12
either way, if its too many freebies, or lack of circulation that made advertisers back out..somethings messed over there. Probably over anticipated their circulation
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Nov 2 2004 3:44PM
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Mahre
Posts: 2507 - Karma: 490
and i still buy my copies from the grociery store. free is nice. but they need the few bucks per mag way more than any of us.


to progress, rules must be broken.
Nov 2 2004 3:57PM
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wiglaf
Posts: 4877 - Karma: 141
wow this sucks, freeze has been here from the start, ive been getting it for like 5 or 6years, it wont be the same. fuck transworld for killing something so great!
`
Nov 2 2004 4:08PM
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whiteout
Posts: 189 - Karma: 18
H3O, please learn to distringuish between 'OPINION' and 'misguided incorrect hypotheses'

There is a big difference.

Until you figure it out, you might as well refrain from further posting.


Nov 2 2004 4:21PM
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360spins
Posts: 618 - Karma: 10
Advertisers for the most part don't care if the circulation numbers are paid for or not. What matters to them most is how many people are going to see and read their ad.

To a degree they do, in that a totally free copy is not as strong a tie to the reader. The copies that you are getting at the movies and in free subscriptions are only free to you. They are - I can pretty much garuntee you - a part of a contra deal where payment in part for a service to TWM is paid for in buying very cheap magazine subscriptions to use as promos or the like. Those are considered to be paid for as they are service in kind.



'The money's in the medicine, not the cure!' Harvey
Nov 2 2004 4:24PM
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h3ofilms
Posts: 4214 - Karma: 12
haha whiteout..relax..i know how advertising works..i never linked free magazines with advertisers jumping ship

i never said anything was fact

heres the link in MY mind...Freeze estimated the circulation number with figuring in yearly growth, then gives the advetisers a projected number..possibly they didnt meet that, and lost cash from advetisers pulling out. Also a factor I believe, is they would have more cash if they cut down on free magazines

i dont work in the print industry, im just stating my first thoughts when i heard freeze was gone
Hibachi King Drops 8/31/04
Nov 2 2004 4:36PM
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switchmisty
Posts: 407 - Karma: 9
the fact of the matter is that magazines don't make their money from subscriptions, every magazine gives out tons of free subscriptions, they make almost all of their money from advertising, transworld didn't kill freeze because not enough people were buying them off of news stands they killed because they are retard assholes, and as far as the open and such yeah they shell out a lot of money for stuff like that but they aren't the only sponsor they have many sponsors of major events and they make alot off of them

im not washing my hair till i can ski again believe dat'
Nov 2 2004 4:48PM
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cork5
Posts: 455 - Karma: 10
this is only speculation but on the topic of free subscriptions; weren't all the places you could get a free subscription advertisers in freeze? yes. that being said they weren't really 'giving' away free magazines...yes you the consumer were getting a free subscription but the companies offering the subscription worked together with freeze to get more people to buy their product, which in turn will up freezes circulation, which in the end will get freeze more money from the rest of the advertisers...sorry for the length
skiing is for little fat kids
Nov 2 2004 4:48PM
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selfportrait
Posts: 1632 - Karma: 16
exactly. only a tiny portion of revenue comes from subscriptions/newstands. In the end, the magasine probably wasn't financialy practical for transworld/time warner, which is why it was terminated. which is one more reason why rider owned publications are key.

.CCR.
impact
Nov 2 2004 5:15PM
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MadTrix4185
Posts: 620 - Karma: 10
wtf i just payed for a year subscription. are they guna give everyone a refund or wat?
Nov 2 2004 5:23PM
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Nine_Milla_Killa
Posts: 6783 - Karma: 23
Why dont they just sell more advertising?
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Nov 2 2004 5:29PM
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snomaster
Posts: 3336 - Karma: 5,677
You know what freeze did wrong???

TOO much BLING BLING.

Cirrculation would be up if they had better stories and sections more substancial than what Pep plays for video games. That's why I stopped giving a shit about the magazine. Fucking corporate hoes.

Time Warner dropping them is just as stupid as the recent content of freeze. They brought the mag under their big umbrella, taking all of us along for the ride, and then drop the magazine as insignificant to their rotten cause.

that's why shit has got to be RIDER based. Keep it local. It matters to someone. FUCK THEM.

AND FUCK GREEDY RIGHT WINGED ASS MONKEYS

*all hail to the mighty gods of snow*
Nov 2 2004 5:45PM
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Jooky
Posts: 1239 - Karma: 37
Probably said above, but I didn't read the whole thing....

No magazine makes money off of subscription sales. Why would they offer them for 80% off the cover price, etc....

The money is made by advertising.

But yeah, Freeze was starting to suck anyways.

Bring AXIS back.
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Since we were being extreme for so long I got really hungry so we went to Mcdonalds and got some chicken mcnuggets. -Skimack
Nov 2 2004 6:01PM
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Malczyk
Posts: 1433 - Karma: 1,880
i think it was becasue of those brad holmes pages...man that guy is a doushbag.....and freeskier has such nicer quality paper....lets just face it, almost every kid in this sport is hooked up or somthing, and doesnt contribute anything to the industry, i know i dont buy anything unless it's absolutely nessecary. all in all, i drank too many beers,and blame TW, because freeze was probably making money, but no enough to stay. pretty shitty... matt levinthal is a talented guy, i think axis would be cool, but sorry, i'm not paying for it
Nov 2 2004 6:41PM
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candidefan04
Posts: 755 - Karma: 11
with all of the ads and a father company like time warner i dont under stand how it wasnt making money besides the free subscriptions and that alone couldnt have brought it down. its probably becausse the stupid owners of time warner didnt see enough inflation in it and knew nothing about freeskiing so they just decided to drop it
GMM_Represent
Nov 2 2004 6:48PM
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freelowda
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 1,583
its basically a corporate re-adjusting.
Nov 2 2004 7:22PM
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jibtastic
Posts: 4391 - Karma: 67
It was a FUN magazine. Thats why people liked it.

What I don't get is how Transworld is still a mag. The magazine is probably about 50-60% ads, no joke. They also lack good articles..ALL the time. I rarely read anything that great out of Transworld. I just look at the cool pics they take of boarders, and the cool ads that companies make. Transworld Snowboarding magazine is simply a joke... I don't understand how it could get much circulation. The magazine is pretty damn boring.



------------------
that is quite jibtastic, sir.

'skiboards look horrible on rails, they do however looking amazing over 15 foot tables.'
-mommy on snowlerbladlerering
Nov 2 2004 7:44PM
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telestar6
Posts: 2102 - Karma: 44
I just don't get what they plan on doing for all their subscribers. There are going to be a shit ton of pissed off folks when they stop getting their mag before their subscription is up. I assume they have to do some sort of refund. But if they don't we'll all get together on file one hell of a class action lawsuit.

I think rails in general are just a phase. - Anthony Boronowski

D-loc's picture looks like a monkey smoking that cig. If you had a mug like that would you really want everyone to see it.
Nov 2 2004 7:49PM
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klimp
Posts: 933 - Karma: 18
i think a big reason transworld dropped freeze is because of problems throughout the company. Snowboarding and skateboarding arent as huge as they used to be. Their still very very popular, but there isnt th e big groupd younger kids doing it like there was 3-5 years ago. All their sports are starting to lose popularity slowly, so obvioulsy the first thing to go is the smaller mag, im not saying this is the only reason, and im not saying im right, its just a guess
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Nov 2 2004 8:29PM
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360spins
Posts: 618 - Karma: 10
Did you guys even read the release? All of this is coming from a short interview given to Ski Area Management online magazine. It was due to 'difficulty hitting its circulation targets, in part because the magazine had a relatively narrow niche and little room to broaden its market'.

This has NOTHING to do with advertiser dollars or revenues. This has to do with an organization putting what were possibly unrealistic goals on Freeze.

You guys know what? THERE AREN'T THAT MANY OF US! Even if all on of us on newschoolers bought a copy of Freeze every issue, that's only what, 46000 copies? How many new readers do you think are going to pick up Freeze every month? How many people do you think care about newschool skiing other than the folks that actually do it? Not many.

The issue is with there not being enough GROWTH in the magazine's circulation. The release may not be the whole truth, but I bet its a part of the truth.



'The money's in the medicine, not the cure!' Harvey
Nov 2 2004 8:50PM
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pat-rickdaigle
Posts: 8556 - Karma: 1,020
h30 the first thing i thought of when i read about that was they gave there magazines away, veryone i know had free subscriptions, that's fucken retarded.


I AM A SKIER.
Nov 2 2004 8:54PM
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wolfmansbro
Posts: 2155 - Karma: 137
i can tell you that the free subsriptions had nothing to do with it. TW knew freeze was going down way before they sent out so many freebies. The free subscriptions was a last resort for tw to try and spark more interest in freeze.
Nov 2 2004 9:02PM
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aggro_sk8
Posts: 2760 - Karma: 18
^^^same with an special intrest magazines, if 8 train collecting magazines can survive, i believe freeze can
-joe

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Nov 2 2004 9:04PM
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davidh
Posts: 4219 - Karma: 8
i got freeze for free for four years, and I never even sent in a free subscription form. But come september there was always a freeze in my mailbox.
_____________________________________________________________

Oh... I thought you meant real anti-freeze, I was like 'Jesus man, you must be a drinking god to still be alive.' -skierman

'You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on.'

'I don't like people who take drugs... Customs men for example.'
Nov 4 2004 7:04AM
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Rogge
Posts: 5772 - Karma: 3,867
Freeze had some big time names advertising in their mag this year. McDonalds and I think Chevy. I'm sure those companies were expecting more circulation. I think the loss of this mag is going to effect the whole industry. Freeskier and Freeze were the 2 mags that were devoted to our part of skiing. Companies such as Siver and other small companies are going to have to spend more $$ to get into other mags if they choose to. I'm sure Ski and Skiing magazine have some pretty hefty ad costs.
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Nov 4 2004 7:24AM
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telestar6
Posts: 2102 - Karma: 44
I doubt the company who owns Freeze even realizes that there is a huge difference between it and say Skiing or one of those gay ass mags. They probably think they can just transfer our readership over to one of their other mags but they are so wrong.

I think rails in general are just a phase. - Anthony Boronowski

D-loc's picture looks like a monkey smoking that cig. If you had a mug like that would you really want everyone to see it.
Nov 4 2004 12:43PM
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