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Legally recognize Westboro Baptist Church as a hate group?

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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
What the fuck is this shit?

As much as I despise religion and the westboro baptist church I will defend their right to free speech, and their freedom of religion. As far as I know they have never physically hurt anyone or committed a hate crime.

What are your thoughts on this.

Heres the link to petition.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/legally-recognize-westboro-baptist-church-hate-group/DYf3pH2d
Dec 18 2012 11:08PM
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BrewskiJr
Posts: 5738 - Karma: 1,478
I disagree.
Dec 18 2012 11:14PM
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ihitchadsgap
Posts: 472 - Karma: 55
well they exceeded their goal of 25000 signatures by bit.....
Dec 18 2012 11:15PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
are you kidding me stfu.. these people are scum.


they arent even a religious group. they do stuff so fucked up that they get people upset and get attacked then they sue the attacker for money. thats how they make their living.
Dec 18 2012 11:15PM
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LoathesRaisins
Posts: 3612 - Karma: 4,735
Probably the most idiotic thread I've seen. They're low lives and deserve 0 respect.
Dec 18 2012 11:19PM
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GnarNinja
Posts: 660 - Karma: 884
"free speech" only goes so far.
Dec 18 2012 11:19PM
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MASkier
Posts: 657 - Karma: 704
relevant
“I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to be an asshole.” –Voltaire
Dec 18 2012 11:20PM
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Funkadelic
Posts: 1967 - Karma: 391
I don't think it's stopping their right for free speech, just having them listed as a hate group. Am I wrong? I would assume the KKK is probably listed as a hate group, but they're still allowed to exercise their right of free speech. Again I could be wrong, just my take on the situation.
Dec 18 2012 11:22PM
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RockyMountnHigh
Posts: 990 - Karma: 14
Agreed. i don't think the full intent of freedom of speech is to be able to picket at funerals. How can you defend the freedom of speech of people who would picket the elementary shooting? These should be private closed events that should not be aloud under law to be disturbed by anyone. How low can they possibly go?
Dec 18 2012 11:23PM
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NBCskier
Posts: 3877 - Karma: -289
You are a fool Amadeus.
Dec 18 2012 11:24PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Inflammatory words that are either injurious by themselves or might cause the hearer to immediately retaliate or breach the peace are not necessarily protected "free speech" under the First Amendment. If the hearer is prosecuted for assault, claiming fighting words may establish mitigating circumstances.

This sounds exactly like what the WBC does. Fuck 'em and their right to free speech.
Dec 18 2012 11:24PM
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SteveStepp
Posts: 9529 - Karma: 20,646
Interesting and relevant. Hacker group "Anonymous" decides to take down WBC

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/westboro-baptist-church-hacked-anonymous-protest-newtown-shooting-victims-funerals_n_2315070.html
Dec 18 2012 11:27PM
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GEORGEzimmerman
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 439
Click for larger image

Dec 18 2012 11:28PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
We could just ignore them...
Dec 18 2012 11:28PM
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ForeverYung
Posts: 8385 - Karma: 2,060
I usually agree with a lot of the stuff you post, Amadeus, but this...

Just think about, they are the lowest of the low. They are protesting the funerals of fucking kids who were murdered. They have no souls.
Dec 18 2012 11:29PM
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Willgum
Posts: 3254 - Karma: 3,071
Amadeus has a point with the legality of their actions, but... something needs to be done about them
Dec 18 2012 11:30PM
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buttrapinpirate
Posts: 497 - Karma: 225
AR6rider has a good point for sure. Same concept as how yelling fire in a theater isn't protected speech because it can cause harm. It is unfortunate however because you do have to draw the line somewhere and you can't make exceptions. It becomes a bit of a slippery slope. As much as I hate the fucking westboro douchebags who literally do nothing productive for this earth
Dec 18 2012 11:32PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
Exactly. I defend their right because it is my right as well. It is all of ours.

Also, in response to someone above hate group means they are monitored by the government and such so it isn't technically restricting speech but there is definitely regulation.

Supreme court already sided with me and gave them the right to protest funerals anyway with Snyder V. Phelps, but I just wanted to hear all of your opinions. No need to be so malicious.
Dec 18 2012 11:33PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,432
Exactly. They wouldn't be out there doing this stuff if we weren't giving them constant attention.

Fuck giving attention whores more attention. Just stop filming them, reporting on them and pretend they don't exist.
Dec 18 2012 11:34PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
Supreme Court uling of Snyder V. Phelps.

"Speech on a public sidewalk, about a public issue, cannot be liable for a tort of emotional distress, even if the speech is found to be 'outrageous.'"
Dec 18 2012 11:39PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
How bout a school bus v. The phelps family...??
Dec 19 2012 2:35PM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
i've got $5 on the bus
Dec 19 2012 2:38PM
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HWW
Posts: 3084 - Karma: 3,436
• why do you not want them to be recognised as a hate group?
• why are groups like this allowed to exist, all they do is hate
• fuck religion for making everything so difficult and morally correct things be known as sins
Dec 19 2012 3:32PM
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GaryColeman
Posts: 248 - Karma: 380
[IMG]neurope.eu/sites/default/files/imagecache/400xY/anonymous%20vs%20westboro%20baptist%20church_0.jpg[/IMG]its fucked up, they give kids signs like this when they most likely have no idea what it means.
Dec 19 2012 4:15PM
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GaryColeman
Posts: 248 - Karma: 380
^^ that didnt work, different pic.
Click for larger image
Dec 19 2012 4:18PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

See, this is what gets me. 

The Phelps clan doesn't care about God, they're scammers trolling the entire world at once.  They are lawyers hiding behind the guise of a religious group because it's the only protection they can have for something so abhorrent. 

But the kids...  The kids grew up being taught this garbage as fact.  To them, this hate is very real.  To me, that is the worst part.  Adults being shitbags by their own accord = almost expected today.  Them fucking up the minds of little kids because it helps sell the genuineness of their lies is the real abomination here.  God they are just so incredibly sick and twisted it m akes me sick to think about just how deep this goes.   

Dec 19 2012 4:27PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,881
I think this guy is an idiot, but he's completely right. Stop saying stupid shit OP, these people abuse "loopholes", so to speak, in our laws and use them for personal profit while hurting other people, and I can not wait to see them all murdered.
Dec 19 2012 4:34PM
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itzbrett
Posts: 108 - Karma: 43
You probably think Casey Anthony should be murdered as well.
Dec 19 2012 4:48PM
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Dr.Dealgood
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 1,352
Part of the problem in this particular instance is that they have been trying to protest in the graveyards during funeral services.

I agree with what you have said about the 1st A. Even though what AR6Rider said is true, and relevant, I'm not sure their presence in something like a graveyard (how public is that? who owns it? is it a private cemetery?)  is justified under the 1st A. and its subsequent precedents.

I will add this to the discussion as well. I am currently in CT and there are public groups consisting of firefighters, public servants, and the public at large that have organized and mobilized themselves to peacefully prevent the WBC from getting close enough to involve themselves too directly in the private affairs of the families.

While their actions may be constitutionally justifiable, I find their methods to be incredibly aggravating, obscene, hateful, ignorant and on the whole reprehensible, I think that these sorts of public actions to let them protest but to protect the families by being "human shields/barriers" to their warped actions is the best course of action here. People protecting the people that deserve protecting.
Dec 19 2012 5:10PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
I think it's best to let them exercise their right to free speech and let them know that no one takes them seriously, like the Foo Fighters did:

Dec 19 2012 5:18PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4750 - Karma: -559
I generally would say that anything acting against WBC is not in the public's best interest because then many interest groups would be silenced as a result.

The person who said the best solution is to ignore them is 100% correct.

Yes I do understand and agree their behavior is similar to yelling fire in a movie theatre and they are no different from the KKK.

Dec 19 2012 5:20PM
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panojibber.
Posts: 1041 - Karma: 683
I highly doubt that anon would bother with WBC, they are small fish to fry. Taking down their website doesn't stop them from protesting either.

WBC actually tried to provoke anon before, and a response from anonymous popped up, but anon later denied it, as it turned out that WBC fabricated the anon response for the sake of publicity. Probably whats going on here too. I think anon is smarter than giving WBC the attention they want.
Dec 19 2012 5:26PM
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Pickles.
Posts: 63 - Karma: 61
By having free speech, you can say whatever you want as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's rights (you can't yell "fire" in a theater, ect). and as americans, we have the right to the pursuit of happiness, which is definitely being threatened by the westboro baptist church (not for everyone, but for the families of soldiers and homosexuals, its definitely not giving them any happiness). So from my point of view, yes the westboro baptist church is a hate group.
Dec 19 2012 5:32PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Dude, bravo. I was going to talk about exactly this. I'm proud to say you are an informed and intelligent American. Carry on.
Dec 19 2012 5:38PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
While I agree that this is certainly not black and white, I am currently leaning towards their obvious intent to create imminent unlawfulness. If one day they provoke someone to the point that fist (or worse) fly, it's definitely going to be a point of conversation in legal proceedings.
Dec 19 2012 5:42PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,881
I would do it myself, actually.
Dec 19 2012 5:47PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11630 - Karma: 24,465
i agree with you 100%

I dont like what they do but they have every right to do it. This is why the US is awesome
Dec 19 2012 6:52PM
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Doug_Gusworthy
Posts: 129 - Karma: 7
OP is correct. This is America and that means a few things,

one of them being that any hateful ignorant piece of shit can say whatever they want without consequence.

In the words of the great Jon Oliver " all you can do is tell them as loudly and as often as possible to SHUT THE FUCK UP!"
Dec 19 2012 8:04PM
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PON3
Posts: 3817 - Karma: 783
I was there at that concert and it was great hearing them sing that. I also went to the RHCP concert in KC and they were there too. Glad I left Kansas so I dont have to see these guys again. I voted.
Dec 19 2012 8:42PM
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Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Posts: 951 - Karma: 119
They basically just made up their own religion. Christianity preachs Gods unfailing love for everyone. They are the complete opposite. Groups like them that call themselves Christians drive me nuts
Dec 19 2012 8:45PM
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Dr.Dealgood
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 1,352
Thought I might bump this up and let people know that might not otherwise...

But in response to the WBC there were many mass gatherings of human chains made up of some rather diverse groups from around CT. Firefighters, policeman, the general public, as well as motorcycle gangs including the Hells Angels joined together to shield the families of Newtown from the WBC.

As far as I know these groups have deterred the WBC and I believe they have left their nearby hotels.

I really see this as the best solution. WBC has the right to their free speech, whether we like it or not. While that may be a frustration wrought by constitutional freedoms I think it is far more encouraging to know that people banded together to peacefully protest them, and that those efforts upheld both constitutional rights and protected and demonstrated to the families that the larger public will step up to protect them.
Dec 20 2012 1:22PM
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ski.cats
Posts: 577 - Karma: 352
lol people dont know that there are reasonable exceptions to the bill of rights
Dec 20 2012 1:48PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,940
Everyone should refer to AR6 riders post before posting in this thread
Dec 20 2012 2:02PM
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Dr.Dealgood
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 1,352
Everyone should also read ^that^ to understand the limitations of AR6rider's point.
Dec 20 2012 2:13PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
God we agree on something? what has the world come to? hahah
Dec 20 2012 2:38PM
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