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Right to bear arms?

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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
remember, when this amendment was written, everybody had a single shot, 6 foot long rifle that took a minute to reload.

that amendment would never be re-written today with the guns we have now.

it's a stupid law, and nobody should have guns but soldiers and officers of the law.

end of story.
Dec 14 2012 4:29PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
Guns are actually designed to propel a projectile towards a target at the fastest possible velocity, but hey we're splitting hairs.


Let's be honest, as terrible as it may be, this shooting was so prolific because of the age of the people involved. It was senseless and disgusting. He didn't need an incredibly powerful weapon, he had a fucking handgun. They're 8 year old kids. They weigh 75 lbs.
Dec 14 2012 6:59PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,467
That sounds absolutely horrible. I don't even know what to say besides what the fuck if that's actually true.
Dec 14 2012 7:04PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
yes, but cars aren't designed to do that. guns are designed, quite literally, for the sole purpose of hurting others. and cars being dangerous and making it easy to kill people doesn't mean guns dont also make it easy to kill people, does it?

i understand that fine, and agree with you completely. mental illness being such a taboo in this country is a big problem that should be dealt with. but, regardless, loose gun laws make it a lot easier than it should be for people like that to get guns and hurt others.
Dec 14 2012 7:05PM
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Tree60
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 4,961
Ok, people are comparing the China school stabbing to the shooting in Connecticut, and using it to show that people are always going to be terrible and hurt people, so regulating guns won't do anything. You are using the exact wrong evidence to support your argument

Lets directly compare the two attacks.

The US has relatively lax gun laws. In Connecticut there were 27 fatalities, all from gunshots. These kids were shot and killed almost immediately

In China, they have very strict gun laws. At the school there were 22 stabbings, however, those children get to see their parents again, because they survived the stabbings.

Guns don't directly cause violence, banning them won't stop violence because some people are going to do try to hurt people no matter what. However, guns escalate the scale of the injuries, and heavily regulating guns will keep fatalities down.

Dec 14 2012 7:06PM
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cheener12
Posts: 2881 - Karma: 5,884
Dec 14 2012 7:10PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
That is normal in most of the world. America just really has a thing for guns, probably something to do with the whole armed rebellion starting the country thing. Not saying it's good, but we're pretty unique in our attitude towards guns. There is a reason we have one of the highest per capita gun crime rates in the West. We're right up there with South Africa, notoriously one of the most crime-ridden countries in the world, and Mexico, a country that's torn apart by drug wars. Our recent past is not nearly as fucked up as theirs is and our current situation as a nation is relatively stable compared to theirs, but we still have nearly the same amount of gun crime.
Dec 14 2012 7:11PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
with the intent being to harm the target...
Dec 14 2012 7:13PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,467
He said you get arrested for having a gun or screwdriver in your car. That is fucked up.
Dec 14 2012 7:17PM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
I have a police officer friend that patrols in a major metropolitan city. The area he patrols is high crime and all the guns he takes off of people are illegally attained. Insane people that have motives and desires to commit crimes like these will find ways to do it ( like the Oklahoma city bombing). It doesn't matter if you create stricker gun laws or ban them all together, these people will find a way. Even today in Colorado 2 people were sprayed with a flammable liquid and lit on fire. This is about self control and noticing and helping the people who need help more than it is about gun control.
Dec 14 2012 7:36PM
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CheddarJack
Posts: 5203 - Karma: 7,380
It was sent to me in an email - I never said I agreed with or wrote it.
However, I am not in favor of strict gun control.
Dec 14 2012 7:36PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
in 1996 a guy walked into a school in Dunblane, Scotland and killed 16 4-5 yr olds. The UK was so appalled they gave up their guns.... forever..... it hasn't happened since. Unlike America where mass shootings occur 5-10 times a year...

Yeah sounds absolutely horrible....
Dec 14 2012 7:39PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
my bad. i thought your last sentence was you implying you agreed with it
Dec 14 2012 7:49PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,467
He didn't say anything about guns. He said you get arrested for having a baseball bat or screwdriver in your car. If you can't read his post or finish reading the thread and see that I already explained this, maybe you should think about going to summer school the next few years.
Dec 14 2012 7:53PM
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Fonzy.
Posts: 216 - Karma: 30
Only single shot rifles for hunting and self-defense handguns should be sold.
In my opinion
Dec 14 2012 8:01PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
what is the difference between a 'self-defence' handgun and a... you know, I'm not even going to finish this question.
Dec 14 2012 8:03PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
Lol. Ok... I'll go to summer school.
Dec 14 2012 8:05PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,415
Sorry but I'm not giving up my right to have a gun because somebody else(who could have gotten a gun anyway) went on a shooting spree.
Dec 14 2012 8:11PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
You might have to... Especially with Obama in office... He seems like the kind of president who might just change the laws. His rhetoric seemed that way today...who knows. Would it be so bad?
Dec 14 2012 8:14PM
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TropicStorm
Posts: 239 - Karma: 206
Ok so if guns kill people then spoons made us fat. Let's get rid of spoons!
Dec 14 2012 8:18PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
look at these violent countries gun control laws, most of them are extremely strict, so something other than laws or lack of laws is causing the crime. you can see the same thing in the US, some of the cities with the highest gun crime rates have the strictest gun control laws in the country, yet a lot of places with the most relaxed gun control laws in the country have very little to no gun crime. so laws dont seem to play much of a factor.
the one similarity we all share is gangs and crime in general. we have some very violent cities, we have a huge drug trafficking problem, which brings gangs and crime along with it, we have mexican gangs which are begining to be a huge problem in southern california. all of the most violent places in the world share this one similarity, whether its gangs, corrupt government, terrorist organizations, etc.. they dont exist because.... guns. violence and murder didnt increase as guns became more prominent. murder and violence have always been a part of human history and always will be.
gangs account for most of the gun crimes in the US, and its no coincidence that these crimes regardless of if they are affiliated with gangs or not, are most concentrated in the most gang and crime ridden cities in the US. also where gun control happens to be the strictest. its because criminals do not acquire guns legally, banning guns or increasing gun control will only increase the demand for illegal gun trafficking.

Dec 14 2012 8:19PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
#horseshitlogic

doingitwrong.jpg

Dec 14 2012 8:19PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,467
You don't have to worry. We may get more strict regulations, but there is no way there will be an all out gun ban
Dec 14 2012 8:32PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
Your knowledge of what the president can and can't do is astounding.
Dec 14 2012 8:33PM
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mmallender.
Posts: 5805 - Karma: 936
exactly. outlawing firearms will create a larger market for illegal firearms, which could very likely produce more violent gun crime.


look at switzerland one of the lowest violent gun crime rates in the world, despite no standing army, mandatory military weapons training, conscription into the peoples milita, and one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

guns arent the issue, people are the issue. society in the United States needs to change, there will always be a means to kill someone, when one door closes, another 10 open up. take away guns, people will find away to kill if they are determined to do so... bombs? knives? poison?

Dec 14 2012 8:36PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
Yes let's compare a bomb And poison with a gun do you know how hard it is to make a bomb or acquire poison.
Dec 14 2012 8:37PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,415
Why don't we band video games and tv.

Dec 14 2012 8:39PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
This so much TV and videogames kill people.
Dec 14 2012 8:40PM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
This isn't about gun control, it is about parenting and the shit society we have created in the past 20 years. This is about teaching children right from wrong and recognizing when they have problems. All these massacres have one common denominator and that is mental illness
Dec 14 2012 8:41PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,467
Board games too. I've see 5 people die from candyland alone
Dec 14 2012 8:41PM
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Bread.
Posts: 769 - Karma: 540
cant be bothered reading whole thread but here is my input. You guys NEED to do something about it and soon. Its insane that you have what like 5 big shootings every year? Banning guns completely no, making them significantly harder to get yes. From where i am from i know for a fact that i cant go to my local superstore buy a AUTOMATIC RIFLE ( in bold because who the FUCK needs an automatic rifle?!).

 I mean the amendment or what ever its called was written what like 200 years ago when people would get attacked by bandits and Indians where there was so significant law enforcement in place. Here we are today with police swat and all the rest, if your in trouble you can phone and they will come so why do you need an AK47?

What i would do take all automatic weapons and milittary grade weapons and handguns away from general population, if you want a gun you need to though checks and you have to have a legitimate reason for having a gun other than personal protection because lets be honest thats such a fucking bullshit reason, anyone in this thread that carrys a gun with them ever used the hand gun to legitimate defend them selfs?

could continue but cant be bothered, thank god i dont live in USA
Dec 14 2012 8:46PM
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LoathesRaisins
Posts: 3612 - Karma: 4,735
Chutes and Ladders. That game man......
Dec 14 2012 8:47PM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
for those of you that want to ban guns, do you want to ban ALL guns or just certain ones? If certain ones, what would you ban?
Dec 14 2012 8:48PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
yup its just like the drug trade. how many people die every year because marijuana is illegal in the U.S.? we would have the same problem with strict gun control or banning guns in the U.S. it would create a huge demand for illegal gun trafficking, there would be a huge demand for it. and it would only lead to more deaths without doing anything to reduce gun related crime.
Dec 14 2012 8:50PM
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Bread.
Posts: 769 - Karma: 540
handguns, automatic rifles , high powered rifles ( other than hunting rifles ) any thing automatic
Dec 14 2012 8:50PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
not.
Dec 14 2012 8:51PM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
The general public cannot buy anything automatic, you have to have very special hard to get permits, be active military in a military setting, or be in law enforcement to get automatic weapons. You or I cannot walk into any firearms store and purchase automatic weapons
Dec 14 2012 8:53PM
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Bread.
Posts: 769 - Karma: 540
Obama wants change
Dec 14 2012 8:57PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
do you know how much of a pain it is to acquire an automatic weapon? its like 6 months or longer process, you have to pay up the b-hole just for the gun itself, its extremely hard to get anything automatic even if you're willing to go through the process. if you are planning to kill someone with an automatic, its about 1.3 million times easier and smarter to acquire one illegally.

high power rifles dont matter, a .223 will kill someone just as easily as a .50 cal. its probably easier to go on a shooting spree with a smaller caliber gun anyways.
handguns, meh, you can conceal a small rifle just as easily.
Dec 14 2012 9:00PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11953 - Karma: 12,292
You are sadly misinformed my friend.
Dec 14 2012 9:00PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,415
You don't live in the USA so don't tell us what we need.

All these controls you want to see imposed, it's not even your country. Take it somewhere else.
Dec 14 2012 9:01PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
you should be more smartfull before you rite things
Dec 14 2012 9:03PM
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Spic-N-SpaN
Posts: 2002 - Karma: 1,465
Its such bull shit. Ban stupid people
Dec 14 2012 9:03PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,415
Fuck yes. Actually we don't even need to ban them. Get rid of laws that don't make any sense. Seat belt laws, danger falling of this cliff will hurt, etc.

We can breed out stupidity.
Dec 14 2012 9:05PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
nope you are how many times have bombs not worked after they were supposed to explode. how many people die of home made bombs a year do you even know?
Dec 14 2012 9:08PM
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yuck
Posts: 8384 - Karma: 2,090
serious question here, despite my frequent anti-america ranting on ns (which is more for entertainment purposes than anything, im sorry)

but whats the appeal with guns? like, why do americans love them so much. most other developed countries (i think) have given up their guns and we're all fine and dandy. Japan is an excellent example of successful gun control. Im just wondering what makes guns so god-damn fantastic that your right you keep hunks of polished wood and steel in your cellar outweighs thousands of human lives per year in your country.

and yeah i know its more complicated than that, and theres huge money in the industry, and america is all about money and war so i guess guns are right up your alley but i really dont get it.
Dec 14 2012 9:11PM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
For the people talking about "high power automatic rifles and handguns", the Virginia tech shooter used a .22 cal handgun. It is not about the gun it is about the up brining and having the awareness to recognize the people with problems that can lead to these situations. I said before mental illness, poor parenting, society changing for the worse ( I think includes games like call of duty) is the common denominator in these tragedies
Dec 14 2012 9:12PM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
I have used mine for personal protection while hiking from animal attack. I also live in an area that doesn't have the friendliest of people, not having one and needing it is much worse than having one and never needing it
Dec 14 2012 9:15PM
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Pickles.
Posts: 63 - Karma: 61
Thats one of the very things that keep this country free.
Dec 14 2012 9:18PM
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deathcookie
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 1,196
It seems that a lot of people who want to ban guns also want to end the war on drugs. This seems a little bit strange to me, as banning guns will just create another no-win fail, with more crime and other problems.
Dec 14 2012 9:19PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
how many times have they worked? bombings arent all that rare, and can be much more deadly. how many shooting sprees went on before columbine? for some reason its become some kind of fad in the last 10 years, and luckily it hasnt with bombings. its extremely easy to make a very deadly bomb. they arent all that rare in other parts of the world.
Dec 14 2012 9:20PM
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