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Right to bear arms?

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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
remember, when this amendment was written, everybody had a single shot, 6 foot long rifle that took a minute to reload.

that amendment would never be re-written today with the guns we have now.

it's a stupid law, and nobody should have guns but soldiers and officers of the law.

end of story.
Dec 14 2012 4:29PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
I disagree, as someone who grew up around guns and learned how to use them and respect their power, i don't think there is anything wrong with owning a gun. The gun itself doesn't pull the trigger, blaming an object for a murder is ridiculous.
Dec 14 2012 5:18PM
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1337
Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,003
Did I saw the word ban?
Dec 14 2012 5:18PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,432
If you don't consider what's in the constitution "rights" what do your vision of our rights from?

Not even arguing about the gun control debate.
Dec 14 2012 5:20PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
Out of curiosity, why do you need to own a gun that isn't for the purpose of hunting? What use does a handgun (or other guns designed for killing humans) have in your world?

I just have a hard time understanding the mentality behind owning a tool specifically designed for killing humans while defending human rights.
Dec 14 2012 5:23PM
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Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Posts: 951 - Karma: 119
Banning Guns will not fix anything. So buddy cant find a gun to shoot kids? (which he would be able to ill bet any money that if guns were illegal in connecticut he would still have been able to acquire one) Instead of shooting kids he'll blow them up or poison them or some other messed up thing. The problem is people. Just because he used a gun or a car or anything doesnt take away from the fact that he did it. Guns just make it easyier for psychos to kill people. Start dealing with the psychos theres your solution.
Dec 14 2012 5:23PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
why not, again anyone can distilled fruit or make beer in their basement idk anyone who can make a gun. if you're really going to sit there and say that banning all guns today in the United States wouldn't stop any gun deaths over the next 20 years you're very dumb. is that what im saying we should do no, but if we said today everyone found with a gun will be sentenced to prison for life give all your guns back to the government, the gun deaths would go down. I admit it's not the correct thing to do but it would stop a lot of gun deaths.
Dec 14 2012 5:24PM
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1337
Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,003
Basic social and ethical principals are true "rights," most of what is written in the constitution is simply law. I don't completely ignore it, I respect it and actually agree with most of them. Just the term "rights" to me does not cover a sense of entitlement to firearms.
Dec 14 2012 5:25PM
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GuacamoleMane
Posts: 1421 - Karma: 2,013
Guns get in through mexico all the time, this argument is irrelevant
Dec 14 2012 5:26PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
no but he most likely wouldn't have killed 20 children he probably would've ran around with a knife and stabbed a couple of them, and then got taken down to the ground and have the knife taken away.
Dec 14 2012 5:26PM
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artfullydodged
Posts: 8358 - Karma: 1,674
Switzerland's gun laws have been successful. They require one military issue weapon to be kept in each household. Acquiring more than that require a clean record and psychiatric evaluation. Who knows if that would work here though.

We really do need to tighten things up though. The weapons you can get in this country are so fucking absurd.
Dec 14 2012 5:26PM
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RimJobber
Posts: 3313 - Karma: 10,058
I'm all for the second amendment, my uncle would've been dead if it weren't for the fact that he was able to have a legal handgun in his car when he needed it.
Dec 14 2012 5:27PM
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JDA
Posts: 572 - Karma: 566
.
Dec 14 2012 5:27PM
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95959
Posts: 2765 - Karma: 377
Target shooting is a fun hobby, pretty simple to understand really. You may not think that's the case but then again a lot of people don't like to ski.

And I don't know what's so difficult to understand that some people need a weapon to feel safe. Most people won't ever need to use their handgun but it's asinine for you(and many others) to say that because the odds are against you needing to protect yourself with a handgun that you shouldn't be able to have one.
Dec 14 2012 5:28PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,469
If someone wants to kill people they are going to find a gun. Why would a murderer follow a gun control law?
Dec 14 2012 5:28PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
god people are retarded.

drugs are illegal, but how do people manage to still smoke weed? every fucking kid that i went to college with smoked like daily, how did the law not prevent them from doing it? did prohibition stop alcohol? fuck no, it created criminals, brought on more violence. how the hell do you think banning guns would be any different? all its going to do is open up a very profitable business for gangs and criminals to bring weapons into the US, criminals and gangs will still have them, they will still be very much accessible, but now, the law abiding citizens have no power. the government, and the criminals have the guns, and they have the power, i fail to see how that seems like a good idea.
government/police and criminals need to fear the people, not the other way around.

people compare us to places like Canada and European countries the size of New York likes its in any way comparable. we have a HUGE gang and crime problem that places like Canada dont have. Cities like Chicago, LA, St. Louis, Detroit. with shit hole areas full of gangs and criminals, which is where all the gun crime comes from. the gangs dont exist because... 2nd Amendment. I grew up in a shitty part of Chicago, we had very strict gun laws there, yet, criminals still managed to get their hands on them. crime was still everywhere. now where im living, everyones got a gun, you're in the minority if you dont, you dont need to register a gun, i can walk down the street to my nearest gun shop with my rifle on my back and nobody cares. yet I cant remember one gun related crime, in fact i think its been like 15-20 years since one occured, and its not a small town. How can that be?

this ass hole would have still gone on a shooting spree regardless of how strict our gun laws are.
Dec 14 2012 5:29PM
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tyberesk
Posts: 446 - Karma: 41
target shooting for sport, a small, home invasion self defense, something to use if say....a bear climbed into your kitchen, and a sidearm for hunting could be very useful/important if something happens with your primary and a wounded bear is charging towards you.

I have a concealed weapon permit in PA and am getting one in CO, but that is basically just for transport purposes. I live in the mountains, and I do feel better having a handgun near my bed when bears and mountain lions are around, you never know when you might need one.

In the event someone came into my house and put my family, my girlfriend, or myself at risk, I would hope I wouldn't think twice about being able to pull the trigger. You never know what a crack junkie or someone very desperate might do.


Dec 14 2012 5:29PM
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dylanb
Posts: 379 - Karma: 86
As if the government is going to go door to door and ask people to politely forfeit their firearms.
Dec 14 2012 5:30PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Fuck all you douchebags. Seriously, you are sad little fucking assclowns. Just can't wait to use 26 deaths to "be right". Yeah, today would e such a proud day if you could get everyone to agree with you. Fuck you for making murdered children the keystone to the argument you just couldn't wait to make over this.
Dec 14 2012 5:32PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
if the governent and criminals were the only people with guns, (which banning guns would do) id most certainly want one for myself...
Dec 14 2012 5:34PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
don't think it would. switzerland is much less diverse than america is. there is just way less crime there in general.

guns shouldnt be banned completely, but laws definitely need to be stricter. what use do normal citizens have for automatic and semi-automatic guns? as far as i can see the only point in owning a gun is self defense, in which case handguns should suffice, and hunting, in which case you need rifles and such.
Dec 14 2012 5:37PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
I'm sorry that you feel that way, but your completely missing the obvious answer, Self Defense. Also prevention of crimes like this. Now it gets hard because places like schools and malls already don't allow guns.
Dec 14 2012 5:37PM
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Puns
Posts: 2052 - Karma: 429
I think it's odd to keep something written so long ago as the basis for an argument. Things always change and evolve. People should be open to change, but not just for the sake of it.

As for this argument on the day of the shooting, I find it a little weird how much sympathy 27 people/families get compared to the thousands of children that die all the time, sometimes from the actions of US drone strikes, policies and corporations causing impoverishment. I realize the circumstances are different, and the reasons more complex but I honestly don't really care relative to the other deaths. This is just black and white bad, and isn't something that people can make up reasons about 'why it would never happen to me' so people find it easy to get worked up by, and the media feels comfortable reporting it. inb4 all the hate I will get for this opinion.
Dec 14 2012 5:38PM
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1337
Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,003
And for the record, I do not believe in a total outright ban on firearms. That is ridiculous and would never happen in the united states ever. Very strict and well enforced regulation, like many other countries, would lead over time to a lower gun homicide rate.

Obviously people will go out of their way to obtain a weapon, and those who are truly fucked will murder masses of people. There is absolutely no way to avoid that; it's an unfortunate reality both sides of the argument have to agree on. But if a) weapons are harder to obtain and b) the length of time it would take for someone to get their hands on a gun was increased, you'd see a lower number of gun deaths. Especially in unnecessary cases, such as false alarm and fire-before-thinking.
Dec 14 2012 5:39PM
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aquinn
Posts: 824 - Karma: 217
I could not disagree with the OP more. If you think gun regulation gets guns out of the hands of criminals you are sadly mistaken
Dec 14 2012 5:39PM
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grown-ninja
Posts: 3031 - Karma: 175
How's Mexico working outt
Dec 14 2012 5:40PM
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95959
Posts: 2765 - Karma: 377
No, stop it.
That kind of rhetoric is not helping ANYTHING.
You can't just stick your head in the sand and ignore an important issue because something bad happened. Sometimes you need to, in a sense, suck it up and really look at what happened.
This is a huge a pervasive subject in our country, and what you are doing is markedly more detrimental than people having a political conversation that may actually yield something positive, rather than doing NOTHING.

It was a terrible, un-speakable thing that happened, no one is brushing that aside. But this kind of thing happens and we have to be able to accept that and not go into a state of grief-induced paralysis every time a tragedy occurs. If we do nothing will ever be accomplished to prevent future incidences.

And that's coming from a pro-gun American.
Dec 14 2012 5:40PM
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yaqwsxcde123vfr
Posts: 371 - Karma: 145
You already went full retard by creating the "torture thread". Why don't you shut your mouth and let the grown-ups talk?
Dec 14 2012 5:41PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
i think the fact that people are using the death of 26 people, many of whom were children, to bring up gun laws is proof that they/we have waited too long.
Dec 14 2012 5:44PM
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Potatoes
Posts: 1131 - Karma: 14
please take a trip to africa you ignorant pos
Dec 14 2012 5:45PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
I agree with a little less profanity. This is NOT an argument for the anti-gun individuals to put into their folders.

I offer my condolences to those involved. I commend those who responded. As a member of the EMS community, I know this would have been an impossibly difficult call to go on.

But this is not the time or place to discuss gun control. There are plenty of arguments on either side that can be mindlessly thrown about, and have been already, but don't do it now.
Dec 14 2012 5:46PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
how about pretty much all of europe?
Dec 14 2012 5:46PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
No, actually what you're seeing is the self-important aspect of society. Even best case scenario, what would come of this thread? Ten people agree with you? Yeah, huge bro. Groundbreaking shit right there. The real deal is everyone thinks they have the answers and can't wait to spin anything to their liking, and this is no different- people could be on either side. It's just an excuse for people to use the deaths of almost 20 children to convince others that they're right. In all honesty nobody is going to make an impact, a real move or do anything constructive, they're just looking to be the smart guy on the Internet. Have some respect, shut the fuck up. Not gonna happen though so might as well save my breath, cunts gonna be cunts regardless, and still be 100% convinced after reading this that t's their duty to hammer each other over policy. Carry on you fucking self important fuckstains.
Dec 14 2012 5:46PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
yeah because the African government can really enforce their own laws.
Dec 14 2012 5:47PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
Lets outlaw knives guys, I mean. There was a guy in China who hurt a bunch of people with a knife. This is a knee jerk reaction to a horrific event, but it shouldn't be used as reasoning for tightening gun regulation. If someone wants to kill someone, they'll do it. Gun or not.




Legislating away bad shit like whoever said before...doesn't work. Ever, like there's straight up no empirical evidence to support it, at all. As for that English guy who said it's worked in every country but America. Don't compare your country, breathing it's last raspy dying breath to America. England is a case study in what's wrong with modern hyper-liberal minded thinking. Your economy? in the shitter. Immigration problems? tons



Get fucked England, we whooped your ass.
Dec 14 2012 5:47PM
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Rosbif
Posts: 2543 - Karma: 930
When would be a better time to discuss this?

Just so people know, we had a similar shooting in the UK in 1996, which resulted in all handguns in private ownership being banned. We have far less gun crime than the States, and the police (in general) don't carry guns. Not saying the UK is utopia or anything, but we seem to manage without handguns pretty well.
Dec 14 2012 5:49PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
no one is arguing that killers wont kill, but over the long run if we make gun harder to get people will have a harder time trying to getting them, and wont be able to kill mass amounts of people.
Dec 14 2012 5:50PM
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Puns
Posts: 2052 - Karma: 429
so... we should respect the children by not talking about policy. which means keeping things the way they are. no action is still an action, why wouldn't you be for the progress that you thought was most effective? I mean 'respect' can be expressed in many ways, and you are here still trying to convince people, what you are reprimanding us for doing. Sure, no discussion is very effective by itself, but when a lot of them happen. It's interesting to talk about things. Discussing nothing is useless and a waste of time, and not showing any respect imo. I get what you're saying about manipulating tragic events in your favour, it is unfortunate, but it bringing up discussion can be nothing but good.
Dec 14 2012 5:51PM
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GuacamoleMane
Posts: 1421 - Karma: 2,013
Every state should follow Massachusetts, ya we have strict laws but hey thu work and it isn't impossible to get agin, it's hard but really helps sift out the ba people
Dec 14 2012 5:52PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,432
I bet you didn't realize that there still are a ton of people that hunt. Just because we've put up a lot more shopping malls, and housing developments doesn't mean they aren't still out there.

I don't have a gun but I defend that it's my right to. I don't think gun control would stop this.


Actually these are THE WORST things you could use for a gun control argument. Just because there's kids that were killed and it's a huge news story doesn't make it a good argument. When you're willing to do something this fucked up, a gun control law isn't going to stop you.

If people want to site the other incidences with guns, that's fine, but why today? Bring those arguments up the next time a kid playing with his friends find a gun and one of them dies. Then go make that argument.


Tired of everything turning into an argument about gun control. this situation doesn't really have anything to do with it.
Dec 14 2012 5:53PM
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Potatoes
Posts: 1131 - Karma: 14
that literally doesn't have a single thing to do with some over-privileged 18 year old "renegade" thinking america is a shithole. nice try..? maybe you could try china, where you can't even use the internet without the possibility of being jailed for life. or try france, where there's a limit as to how much you can work, while you pay 75% income tax. fucking idiot
Dec 14 2012 5:53PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
You would be surprised how easy it is to get an unregistered illegal firearm if you know the people, its scary stuff.
Dec 14 2012 5:54PM
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KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
the right to bear arms in the U.S. will never be outlawed regardless of what anyone says.Its a constitutional right and there is no way they would take that away from us. Most people who own guns treat them with respect and use them for their intended uses. There are the select few psychos out there who would do this regardless.

Im very saddened by this incident, I live 20 minutes away from where this took place. But I still say let the people keep there guns. If anything, arm teachers and schools. Wit the recent increase in shootings, arming responsible people at schools is the way to go, as well as teachers.
Dec 14 2012 5:54PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
agreed.
Dec 14 2012 5:56PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
I would ask what business any of us have discussing it, really. Are we deciding the nation's next step or laws? No. We're just randoms on the Internet blowing hot air because that's what people
do now. Fuck this thread, I'm out of here. Be sure to let me know when you guys figure out a way to bring those kids back since discussin this ad nauseum is so fucking crucial.
Dec 14 2012 5:56PM
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JDA
Posts: 572 - Karma: 566
It's the people in America, they have far more nutters than we do. They must be right at everything they do.
Dec 14 2012 5:57PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
i keep hearing this and i live in ny i don't know anyone who can get an gun or just sell one on the street. down south I'm sure it's a different story, but im now going to ask around for a gun and see how long it takes to find one.
Dec 14 2012 5:57PM
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CheddarJack
Posts: 5203 - Karma: 7,380
Was just sent this via email:

"Let's take a look at some statistics about doctors:
(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.

(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.

(C) Accidental deaths per physician
is 0.171

*Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of
Health and Human Services.


Now let's look at guns:

(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.

(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188

*Statistics courtesy of FBI


So,statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners."

Still think guns are so dangerous?
Dec 14 2012 5:58PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
exactly, i dont even know "people", or have any association to any gangs or criminals etc.. but when i lived in chicago i knew how to get one, it was pretty much as common knowledge as where to get drugs. if you want one, you could get one, shit its probably a lot easier than going through the legal BS required to get one legally..
Dec 14 2012 5:58PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
I don't get this post at all are we still talking about guns? i think people should be able to own hand guns after a shitload of training and a mental evaluation. but our laws in the usa def need to be changed.
Dec 14 2012 6:00PM
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artfullydodged
Posts: 8358 - Karma: 1,674
Yea I was thinking about that after I posted. Gun laws can be more lax in a homogenous population.
Dec 14 2012 6:00PM
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