Touring/AT NSers...

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Insane

How do you guys deal with sweating? Might seem like a stupid question but anyone who has been out in the backcountry knows that's what makes you cold.

Specifically, my feet sweat and then when I stop to ski they freeze! Too thick of socks? I wear a underarmor and fleece top for the skin up.

You guys have any tips/tricks in general?

Jan 3 2015 7:58PM

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Crazy Fool

Loco-Deer-SlayerHow do you guys deal with sweating? Might seem like a stupid question but anyone who has been out in the backcountry knows that's what makes you cold.

Specifically, my feet sweat and then when I stop to ski they freeze! Too thick of socks? I wear a underarmor and fleece top for the skin up.

You guys have any tips/tricks in general?

try unzipping your pants if you have that option? not much you can really do for hot feet other than try and regulate the rest of your body so youre not too warm. it's also all about the right material, you want something that if you do sweat wont stay wet and cold something that dries quickly. smartwool, wool is what iv found works best for me.

Jan 3 2015 8:14PM

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ShredMasterPlus

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Insane

Loco-Deer-SlayerHow do you guys deal with sweating? Might seem like a stupid question but anyone who has been out in the backcountry knows that's what makes you cold.

Specifically, my feet sweat and then when I stop to ski they freeze! Too thick of socks? I wear a underarmor and fleece top for the skin up.

You guys have any tips/tricks in general?

If your not in super deep snow try and keep the snow skirts from the snowpants above your boots so your feet can actually breathe that does wonders.

Jan 3 2015 11:26PM

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Hey all. So we got the kingpins in stock this week and I have mounte up quite a few now. It really is a pretty cool binding. The toe is awsome. It really is like a really well designed radical. They could have maybe Gone further to give it some more elasticity like the beast but because of the heel I think it's almost not needed. The heel is solid. There is a boot futter I work with who had them and he says it really dies feel as good as an alpone binding. He is hitting things he would not consider on a radical for example. The wight is good too and only needing the tour to be tech could lead to some good boot options. Overall they are certainly worth a look

Jan 4 2015 12:28AM

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Ghini

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tomPietrowskiThey could have maybe Gone further to give it some more elasticity like the beast but because of the heel I think it's almost not needed. The heel is solid.

This is the whole problem with this binding and shows how creepy good their marketing works. They got into your head bro..

Why wouldnt you need elasticity or a safety release in the toes? (note I ride Plums and dont have that, but aware of that fact)
If you want to get most out of that heel (that is solid, safe and well designed) you need something to work with that in the toes. I really dont understand why people dont understand that. If your heel wants to get out sideways (wich the kingpin heel alows) it wont, because the toes only pop up vertically. This is why Beasts, TR2s, Vipecs doe have elasticity and a release in the toes.
Note that Marker had something in their pipline for the toes, but it couldnt get certified so they went another way.. Dont look surprised if the kingpins get an upgrade with new toes in the next 2-3 years..

Jan 4 2015 6:00AM

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CamembertThis is the whole problem with this binding and shows how creepy good their marketing works. They got into your head bro..

Why wouldnt you need elasticity or a safety release in the toes? (note I ride Plums and dont have that, but aware of that fact)
If you want to get most out of that heel (that is solid, safe and well designed) you need something to work with that in the toes. I really dont understand why people dont understand that. If your heel wants to get out sideways (wich the kingpin heel alows) it wont, because the toes only pop up vertically. This is why Beasts, TR2s, Vipecs doe have elasticity and a release in the toes.
Note that Marker had something in their pipline for the toes, but it couldnt get certified so they went another way.. Dont look surprised if the kingpins get an upgrade with new toes in the next 2-3 years..

I think you misunderstood me a little. My point was because if the heel there is less need for added elasticity in the toe. On most tech there is a big amount of twisting force as the heel pins can hold a boot upright. Because of this the toe needs some elasticity to not release. The marker heel does not get effected by the twisting so the issue with the toe is not there in the same way. I do agree though that you will see developments. No good product should stay the same year after year. I would bet the higher din version which is on the way will have a differnt toe possibly.

Jan 4 2015 1:06PM

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cobra_commander

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beast's don't release from the toes.

Jan 4 2015 1:16PM

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Ghini

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tomPietrowskiI think you misunderstood me a little. My point was because if the heel there is less need for added elasticity in the toe. On most tech there is a big amount of twisting force as the heel pins can hold a boot upright. Because of this the toe needs some elasticity to not release. The marker heel does not get effected by the twisting so the issue with the toe is not there in the same way. I do agree though that you will see developments. No good product should stay the same year after year. I would bet the higher din version which is on the way will have a differnt toe possibly.

'The marker heel does not get effected by the twisting'

??

They have lateral release (and vertical), if they would not get effected by twisting they wouldnt release laterally..? Yeah if set the din higher in the heel they wont move laterally that quick but thats the same with current tech bindings.
I might think to much as a designer and see the weakness of a product but if you want to get the most out of that lateral release function in the heel you really need elasticity and a release function in the toes.

Jan 4 2015 1:31PM

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Camembert'The marker heel does not get effected by the twisting'

??

They have lateral release (and vertical), if they would not get effected by twisting they wouldnt release laterally..? Yeah if set the din higher in the heel they wont move laterally that quick but thats the same with current tech bindings.
I might think to much as a designer and see the weakness of a product but if you want to get the most out of that lateral release function in the heel you really need elasticity and a release function in the toes.

With a tradionaly pin binding when you edge only the two small pins in te heel try to hold the boot upright. It's this that causes the lateral play in the binding. The marker heel holds the boot down like a conventional alpine binding so this twisting is removed meaning there is less need for the toe to offer elasticity like it's needed in a beast for example.

Jan 4 2015 2:22PM

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Ghini

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tomPietrowskiWith a tradionaly pin binding when you edge only the two small pins in te heel try to hold the boot upright. It's this that causes the lateral play in the binding. The marker heel holds the boot down like a conventional alpine binding so this twisting is removed meaning there is less need for the toe to offer elasticity like it's needed in a beast for example.

I think I know where we dont follow each other.. I dont think keeping a boot upright has anything to do with lateral (sideways) movement or release in the heel. Yes the two narrow positioned pins are a big downside of traditional tech bindings, yes it can cause movement in the boot. When you look from behind to the spine of a boot it can go from left to right at the top but the heel stays in place and you can adjust the lateral force with a spring. It works the same with the kingpin, thighten the spring and you'll need more lateral force to get movement, correct? Those well designed wheels on the heelpiece of the kingpin those make shure the boot stays upright and that the binding feels more direct and more like an alpine binding.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, I didnt finish my study in industrial design, wich I still regret to this day, so please school me. I really like what is happpening in the tech binding world these years.

Jan 4 2015 4:55PM

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CamembertI think I know where we dont follow each other.. I dont think keeping a boot upright has anything to do with lateral (sideways) movement or release in the heel. Yes the two narrow positioned pins are a big downside of traditional tech bindings, yes it can cause movement in the boot. When you look from behind to the spine of a boot it can go from left to right at the top but the heel stays in place and you can adjust the lateral force with a spring. It works the same with the kingpin, thighten the spring and you'll need more lateral force to get movement, correct? Those well designed wheels on the heelpiece of the kingpin those make shure the boot stays upright and that the binding feels more direct and more like an alpine binding.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, I didnt finish my study in industrial design, wich I still regret to this day, so please school me. I really like what is happpening in the tech binding world these years.

You have it right. In tradional tech bindings te pins I the heel can't hold the boot upright under load so that is why you can get pre real eases in the toe. The kingpin doe not suffer from this so is not prone to pre releasing in the toe hence why marker can use a much simpler toe then say the beast.

Jan 4 2015 5:34PM

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JAHBRADOR

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Yooo, I have dont some touring in the past, maybe 2-3 times a season on rented/borrowed gear.

I just moved to interior BC and i can't not tour here so i was looking into buying my own skis, bindings and skins - i already have the probe, shovel, beacon.

I came across these: http://www.kijiji.ca/v-ski/nelson/186cm-armada-jj-with-freeride-pros-and-bd-skins/1040280474?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

This looks like a sick deal from doing a little research but i have a few questions for you guys.

Are Fritschi bindings "good"? To me they look a little too plastic. Are they for light touring and downhill use or can you send cliffs and pillows also?

The guy in the ad mentions that they are size "medium"? I guess this relates to boot size but what does it actually mean?

Where should touring bindings be mounted? Would it be bad to mount them center?

Hope you guys can help!

Thnx, Jah

Jan 8 2015 9:19PM

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Jan 14 2015 8:34AM

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msfb

cheers

Jan 20 2015 8:31AM

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RubberSoul

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^god i love this thread. keep it up guys... for us douches stuck in offices right now

Jan 20 2015 8:37AM

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Insane

Do you guys have any recommendations on sleeping bags for winter camping?
I'm looking for a 0 degree rated bag that will compress to 15-20L. Down or synthetic.

Did my first night yesterday and used rental gear. It worked out fine, but the gear was HUGE. I had to tie all of it around my backpack.

Jan 20 2015 9:39PM

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Loco-Deer-SlayerDo you guys have any recommendations on sleeping bags for winter camping?
I'm looking for a 0 degree rated bag that will compress to 15-20L. Down or synthetic.

Did my first night yesterday and used rental gear. It worked out fine, but the gear was HUGE. I had to tie all of it around my backpack.

iv got a marmot lithium that i lovveeeee. never been cold snow camping with that baby

Jan 20 2015 9:41PM

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Sklar

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Finally picked up some dynafits. Stoked

Now I need some skis to put them on.

Jan 20 2015 9:50PM

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Huck_Norris

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Loco-Deer-SlayerDo you guys have any recommendations on sleeping bags for winter camping?
I'm looking for a 0 degree rated bag that will compress to 15-20L. Down or synthetic.

Did my first night yesterday and used rental gear. It worked out fine, but the gear was HUGE. I had to tie all of it around my backpack.

Down is warmer for the weight and packs lighter. Synthetics take up more room but stay warm when wet and can usually keep you dry/help dry our base layer while you sleep.

I like synthetics because I sweat like an Ecuadorean whore but down is nice too.

Jan 20 2015 10:20PM

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Insane

hahaha thanks for the suggestions

Jan 20 2015 10:28PM

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took a jongs out actually i think he has 9k worth of posts here
most from the skiin hotbed of GA.

sillytude booters of fantasy = open

snowpacsk finally stabilzin as far as pwl deep slab but still some new snow windslab instabilities

skiing well
A

B

P

T

Jan 22 2015 8:53AM

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Aenigma

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Loco-Deer-SlayerDo you guys have any recommendations on sleeping bags for winter camping?
I'm looking for a 0 degree rated bag that will compress to 15-20L. Down or synthetic.

Did my first night yesterday and used rental gear. It worked out fine, but the gear was HUGE. I had to tie all of it around my backpack.

A 0 degree bag will really limit you to only staying out when it's pretty nice (at least 10+F), unless your body is a furnace. I use an REI -20 Expedition down bag, which packs down to the same size as my synthetic +20 bag, and weighs maybe a touch less. I know the -20 bags are really expensive, but considering how much time you spend in one in the winter (nights are long!), it's worth spending more to stay warm and comfortable. Mountain temperatures at night can be difficult to predict, as well, so being ready to weather out some sub-zero weather is a pretty significant safety cushion. As a general rule, I try to buy sleeping bags for 15-20 degrees colder than I'll actually use them in, although I have spent nights at the listed temperature ratings for both my sleeping bags and have been cold and miserable.

As a sidenote, you will not find a synthetic sleeping bag that is both appropriate for winter temperatures, and easy to pack around. Sad, but true.

Jan 22 2015 9:10AM

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Insane

I'm just starting out with this winter camping stuff. Looking to start in warmer temps. The lows predicted at Alta, UT this weekend are barely at freezing, figure a good chance to go camping.

Just got a four season two person tent, down zero degree bag, and insulated sleeping pad.

My body is a furnace. I do well with cold temps, but I'm not looking for that arctic chill factor just yet. Appreciate the advice.

Jan 22 2015 9:48AM

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J.D.

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@th1337

Yeah, the 20 degree cushion is a good idea. Basically the rating doesn't indicate "here is the temperature you should use this in" so much as "here is the coldest temperature at which we predict you will not freeze to death sleeping in this". Not exactly comfortable.

I don't really camp outside my car, but I do have a -25 degree Grizzly 2 person bag that's comfy as anything.

Jan 22 2015 9:54AM

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snomaster

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I use a Kelty Cosmic 0 Degree Down, with a descent bivy that holds my pad in place. I have a stuff sack that makes the bag a touch bigger than a football. I've slept in snow caves, cabins, and tents. The coldest was -5f a few years back in a lean-to at the Marcy Dam in the Adirondacks. Those things are not warm. We should have just built a cave. That was early on in my winter camping days... now I avoid those temps!

Jan 22 2015 10:16AM

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cobra_commander

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snomasterI use a Kelty Cosmic 0 Degree Down, with a descent bivy that holds my pad in place. I have a stuff sack that makes the bag a touch bigger than a football. I've slept in snow caves, cabins, and tents. The coldest was -5f a few years back in a lean-to at the Marcy Dam in the Adirondacks. Those things are not warm. We should have just built a cave. That was early on in my winter camping days... now I avoid those temps!

I have a -15F Mountain Hardware bag, and another 0deg F bag I can put around it if the temps get lower. I wouldn't mess around. If it is too cold, your body won't let you fall asleep for that long to keep you from freezing to death. Yes, I've been there and it sucks. Get a warm ass bag.

Jan 22 2015 1:09PM

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malonius_funk

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Skied Mt. Blackmore on Wednesday morning before class. This was one of those mornings that words or photos can't do justice; days like these confirm that the most honest and fulfilling experiences I have are those spent in the mountains with the ones I love.

We expected to be skiing crust the whole way down. Instead, we were greeted with 6" of absolutely blower Montana pow (deeper in some places) and bluebird skies. We reached the summit around 8:45am just as the sun burned off the clouds and warmed us up.

Pit-wise, on the Eastern aspect we dug into we got an ECTN although there was a definite crust layer near the top of the snowpack under the new snow. The facets near the bottom seemed to be healing extremely well or were non-existent. The snow depth was about 70cm. Overall, we felt good about the stability and skied without having to hold onto any "out of the ordinary" concern.

'yer boi and the dancing lifty chuggin' up the ridge to the summit

'yer boi and the dancing lifty getting too stoked on the beautiful weather and perfect snow conditions

dancing lifty getting tubular

and pitted

our exit from ZEE EAST FACE!!!!!!!!!

woohoo! be safe out there; have fun; stay frosty.

Jan 23 2015 12:23AM

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Sklar

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okay, so, do i sell my beacon to a friend and buy a new one (upgrade from tracker 1 to tracker 3)
it would cost me like $100

Jan 23 2015 7:08PM

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J.D.

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@th1337

^Yes do it.

Jan 23 2015 7:36PM

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Drail

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second the yes. do it.

Jan 23 2015 8:49PM

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cydwhit

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No Life

So, took my first real walk on the Guardians today, little 2.5 mile tour up our local "mountain." I'm not going to lie, my ankles and calves are really feeling it, any advice for touring in full-tilts? Conditions around here suck massively, we found some fun looking lines but there is just not enough snow to drop them. I guess that means it's time to start building goofy little jumps.

Jan 24 2015 6:34PM

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ThaLorax

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@th1337

cydwhitSo, took my first real walk on the Guardians today, little 2.5 mile tour up our local "mountain." I'm not going to lie, my ankles and calves are really feeling it, any advice for touring in full-tilts? Conditions around here suck massively, we found some fun looking lines but there is just not enough snow to drop them. I guess that means it's time to start building goofy little jumps.

Your ankles and calves are going to feel it in full tilts because they don't have a walk mode. You need a boot that gives you some movement in the ankles while going uphill.

Jan 30 2015 1:26PM

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562056961108

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Newb

We lapped Berthoud pass a few times two weeks ago and it was pretty good, really stable from Treeline and below. Just gotta watch your slope angle and wind loading in spots.

Any field reports from the front range / summit county crew on how things are holding up out there? Lots of warming, wind, and a bit of snow, was wondering what your observations were.

Thanks!

Jan 30 2015 2:09PM

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Ryanvdonk

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huckcliffsWe lapped Berthoud pass a few times two weeks ago and it was pretty good, really stable from Treeline and below. Just gotta watch your slope angle and wind loading in spots.

Any field reports from the front range / summit county crew on how things are holding up out there? Lots of warming, wind, and a bit of snow, was wondering what your observations were.

Thanks!

it got cooked the past week, some northfacing trees might be alright, but anything south and west is pretty crusty...gonna be sketchy when we get a storm layer on top of that. snow pack is stable-ish but weak at the bottom...if it goes it's gonna go huge, so just be wary of that even though there's not much movement.

Jan 31 2015 3:04PM

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Sklar

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I just got home from day 1 on my new (to me) touring setup up on Rainier,
183 Atomic Coax, Dynafit Radical ST
Stoked on the dynafits, made skinning a lot less tiring, especially coming off my 191 Billygoats with Dukes.
I had some issues with one of my toe pieces coming loose, i guess I didn't use enough threadlocker in the inserts.
Definitely can't drive the Coax as hard as the Billy Goats, but they should be fun, and the price was right

Jan 31 2015 7:22PM

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Drail

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It's not that I don't love this thread, but we should be using the new forum

Feb 1 2015 7:11AM

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it'd be better if all the fanboi crap went in its own social media prohoe gabber forum
might as well get er back on skin track

Feb 1 2015 12:03PM

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Insane

What do you guys do to keep your boots from freezing in overnight camping? Sleep with them or just let it happen? Right now I sleep with (in my bag) my water, and all my layers for the next day.

Mornings with camping are always way too cold.

Feb 6 2015 3:58AM

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Aenigma

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I pull the liners out and stuff them in my sleeping bag. There isn't much you can do to keep stuff from getting really cold when you're camping, unfortunately.

Feb 6 2015 9:42AM

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Yeah I pull the liners out and put them either in my bag or under my bag by my knees. Not a whole lot you can do.

Feb 6 2015 1:03PM

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pretty stoked to give these sleek sexy eyetallion binders for some ups n downs

Feb 8 2015 10:05PM

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cardiffians

we came to get down

left some ptex in the choke n sum sluff mangement needed

apron had a crust but nuff fluff to shred

Feb 10 2015 11:35PM

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Crazy Fool

I will be in bozeman thursday-monday. i am bringing my touring stuff but the weather doesnt look great. if anyone wants to lap bridger friday/sat/sun let me know. probably only going up one day of the three. i will be with my pops whose a solid skier as well.

Feb 11 2015 2:25AM

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malonius_funk

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BakerpowI will be in bozeman thursday-monday. i am bringing my touring stuff but the weather doesnt look great. if anyone wants to lap bridger friday/sat/sun let me know. probably only going up one day of the three. i will be with my pops whose a solid skier as well.

Hey man, I am down to get some turns in at Bridger on Friday! Supposed to be sunny and warm.

Feb 11 2015 9:59AM

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Insane

Love this thread, always getting useful advice from others.

What are your guys thoughts on crampons? When do you need them / when is it overkill? I've done some chute hiking where I've kinda wished I had some but I got by alright without.

Worth it?

Feb 15 2015 8:29PM

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