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I've been noticing lately that there are a few people on here who are into touring and earning their turns. Where are you from, where are you touring and whatchagot for touring setups?
I'm from mass but tour all over the EC and also when I go west for vaca (usually UT/BCC/LCC). Mostly in VT along the green spine though while I'm home. Right now I'm on Whitedot Redeemers quiverkilled for Plum Guides, but my 12/13 ON3P Billy Goat Tours should be on my doorstep by tomorrow- and will be my go-to touring skis for the majority of the season. My boots are Dalbello Virus Tours with cochise top straps grafted on as well because I hated the stock top bail.
loopieWhat are your guys thoughts on the Avalung? Is this a piece of equipment worth investing in?
I have one integrated into my pack, and think it's absolutely worth having.
jblaskiYou're supposed to ski with it in your mouth, which will likely not happen. If you're on a slope that you're so scared that you want that in your mouth, maybe you should double think if you should ski it at all.
I ski with it in my mouth almost always. It's really not that uncomfortable, you get used to it pretty quick.
Simply put, if you do end up buried with it in your mouth, the thing will, at minimum, give you twice as long to get rescued as if you didn't have it. That's more or less guaranteed. Given that there's no situation that it won't provide additional protection against dying from suffocation, what's the downside?
J.D.Simply put, if you do end up buried with it in your mouth, the thing will, at minimum, give you twice as long to get rescued as if you didn't have it. That's more or less guaranteed. Given that there's no situation that it won't provide additional protection against dying from suffocation, what's the downside?
Well being chased by horny moose gets old after the 3rd or 4th time haha
Anyone have recent BC conditions update for: Teton pass, Bend area, Wasatch, or the Ruby mountains? Trying figure out where to spend a few days touring next week.
What beacons are everyone using? I've been borrowing for the last few seasons, but it's time buy my own. Leaning towards Ortovox or Arva, just curious what beacons are popular out on new schoolers.
Love my Mammut Pulse. I've never had to use it in a real scenario and hope to never have to, but it's super intuitive and seemingly finds other beacons a teeny-tiny bit faster than the Tracker 2's many of my buddies have. I got a ridiculous deal on it but if I didn't I'd probably get the Element because the Pulse has a few features (in the "guide" mode) that I probably won't ever use.
Mr.PenguinWhat beacons are everyone using? I've been borrowing for the last few seasons, but it's time buy my own. Leaning towards Ortovox or Arva, just curious what beacons are popular out on new schoolers.
I'm still using the original Tracker. As of right now only shop folk are giving me shit for it, and the odd guide - but a part of me is perceiving that as them just wanting me to spend money at their store. I do understand that it is dated, but hell - it works and while I have never had to use it in a real life situation, it works for me without a hitch in practise scenarios every time. I haven't experienced anyone refusing to go out touring with me because of my 'dated' technology. Hell - some folk I know are still using old school analog beacons, industry expectations be damned.
I might buy a new Pulse over the next month when I know how much money I have to work with (I am going to be without money coming in for the next month or so, budget time), not because I don't trust my Tracker anymore, but because when I play with the new, high end transceivers, they really are superior and I do get a kick out of how 'easy' they make it for when shit hits the fan.
Mr.PenguinWhat beacons are everyone using? I've been borrowing for the last few seasons, but it's time buy my own. Leaning towards Ortovox or Arva, just curious what beacons are popular out on new schoolers.
I'm currently using the Tracker 2. Zero complaints. It's just as fast, if not faster, than any other beacon that I"m working around. I'll probably be picking up the new Tracker 3 in the next couple of weeks, just because it has a couple features that I really like.
For some reference, a patroller I work with has a beacon website with some extensive reviews and testing. It's definitely worth looking through. http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/
Mr.PenguinWhat beacons are everyone using? I've been borrowing for the last few seasons, but it's time buy my own. Leaning towards Ortovox or Arva, just curious what beacons are popular out on new schoolers.
I've been using a Barryvox for the past 5 or 6 years.
Im super used to the Barryvox so it's definitely the fastest for me. Ive had good experiences with the Tracker 1/2 and Barryvox Pulse also.
Which beacon you buy doesn't matter nearly as much as learning how to use it really well and staying proficient with it.
fragglemuffinLove my Mammut Pulse. I've never had to use it in a real scenario and hope to never have to, but it's super intuitive and seemingly finds other beacons a teeny-tiny bit faster than the Tracker 2's many of my buddies have. I got a ridiculous deal on it but if I didn't I'd probably get the Element because the Pulse has a few features (in the "guide" mode) that I probably won't ever use.
I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't have personally purchased the mammut because of its cost and I'm broke, but we are issued the Pulse as our work beacon (I use it personally also). Not only do I think it is easier to use than the tracker 2 (I know different folks have preferences and kick ass with it) but the pulse seems to consistently beat other beacons, especially the 2 antenna. I think it is more a user thing, and my relatively small sample size and personal preference doesn't make it concrete, but I think it at least stacks up against pretty much anything out there.
I like that I can basically walk (or run) right at a signal instead of having to follow the magnetic field, and I almost never have to reorient or calibrate during a search. The multiple flagging of signals and ability to scroll through easily is nice too.
DrailI'm still using the original Tracker. As of right now only shop folk are giving me shit for it, and the odd guide - but a part of me is perceiving that as them just wanting me to spend money at their store. I do understand that it is dated, but hell - it works and while I have never had to use it in a real life situation, it works for me without a hitch in practise scenarios every time. I haven't experienced anyone refusing to go out touring with me because of my 'dated' technology. Hell - some folk I know are still using old school analog beacons, industry expectations be damned.
I might buy a new Pulse over the next month when I know how much money I have to work with (I am going to be without money coming in for the next month or so, budget time), not because I don't trust my Tracker anymore, but because when I play with the new, high end transceivers, they really are superior and I do get a kick out of how 'easy' they make it for when shit hits the fan.
For me it's not about how "easy" the newer beacons are... it's how much more range they have. Doing range tests using my old tracker with other people with newer beacons is what got me to finally upgrade last year. Mine had half of the range, and I'm sure it was the same as you have (vintage 2004).
That's a big deal if you ever encounter a real life scenario.
To the guy above, I had the tracker 1 aswell up until last year and loved it.
But, At a comp last year during beacon check, I was roughly 2 meters away from the guide whilst stood right next to him. And he had a massive go at me about how unsafe it was.
The newer transceivers have 3 antennas and are much more accurate. I went for the pulse as we get a good deal on Mammut through the shop i work at and have to say even just practicing with it, It does shorten the search time substantially. And i like the fact it has an analog search option too.
-SnowSnoli-The newer transceivers have 3 antennas and are much more accurate. I went for the pulse as we get a good deal on Mammut through the shop i work at and have to say even just practicing with it, It does shorten the search time substantially. And i like the fact it has an analog search option too.
I like my Arva, but there's no question that the processor speed isn't quite as speedy as the Tracker 2 I had before. But the ability to flag and cycle through signals in a multi burial is something I won't go without now.
snomasterFor me it's not about how "easy" the newer beacons are... it's how much more range they have. Doing range tests using my old tracker with other people with newer beacons is what got me to finally upgrade last year. Mine had half of the range, and I'm sure it was the same as you have (vintage 2004).
That's a big deal if you ever encounter a real life scenario.
I went with Ortovox S1+
While this is true and a valid concern, it's all about familiarity. If he's reeeeeeeeally good with the T1, that's more than cool with me. I guarantee there are people out there with Pulses or 3+s that have never even ran drills with them so it definitely goes both ways. I know you guys know that but some people reading may not appreciate that fact.
That said, I rock a Pulse that I borrow from a good friend when I go places I need one- which is not often enough to buy my own quite honestly. I'm familiar with it, have used the same one for years and I'm confident in it's ability to work.
I'd still place familiarity over gadgetry though in 99.9% of cases.
For many people the argument was always, "I'm a ski bum and the tracker is waaay cheaper, and it still works fine".
Now that the tracker 3 is out, and baryvox have the element dialed in, to me there is no reason to not go for the element.The extra $50 will be more than worth it In the off chance scenario that there is a multiple burial situation as the baryvox will outperform all the other beacons (in my experience, with people of equal skill levels on all beacons... ex: first timer vs first timer, or patrol vs patrol)
That being said, where's the good snow right now!?!?!? Up in the kootenays and we're getting absolutely starved over here!!!!
DrailI'm still using the original Tracker. As of right now only shop folk are giving me shit for it, and the odd guide - but a part of me is perceiving that as them just wanting me to spend money at their store.
It's not them wanting your money, it's that your beacon is pretty inaccurate without the extra antenna compared to the newer ones. As a result, it may come off like you're willing to compromise on being a good touring partner to save some dough. If you look into how beacons receive signals, it will often give you incorrect output when you're about... I want to say 6 feet away, just because of spikes. I've never owned a tracker but I have practiced with one and it's quite true and would screw with me under pressure for sure. If that's the difference between you finding your buddy in X minutes versus X plus four minutes? Well, you get the idea.
THAT BEING SAID, I know guys who are absolute wizards with the tracker 1 and can actually use the false responses to massacre everyone else with newer beacons when it comes to fine searching, because they know how to interpret the spikes just from years of practice. I.e., "i'm getting a spike here, and a spike here, and one here... ok, probe here. Strike. Done."
Personally I use an Orto S1, which I have always found to be super easy and intuitive to use, but I know a lot of people say it's excessively complicated. Which is why different people have different preferences. Generally though, the tech is so much better now than ten years ago, whether you're going with a tracker2, tracker3, orto, mammut or pieps pro (I dislike the latter), you're going to have a competent piece of technology. All that's left is making sure you practice enough to be able to use it well without having to think about it, because when bad stuff happens, thinking is not the easiest.
And for the love of all the touring partners you actually want to ski with, do this now:
-Go to the store.
-Buy a nice set of lithium batteries that will replace the ones in your beacon.
-Duct tape them together, tie them around your neck (or in your pack, whatever) and when yours gets low in the middle of a tour, or maybe at a trailhead, throw them in and feel really competent.
LiteratureAnd for the love of all the touring partners you actually want to ski with, do this now:
-Go to the store.
-Buy a nice set of lithium batteries that will replace the ones in your beacon.
-Duct tape them together, tie them around your neck (or in your pack, whatever) and when yours gets low in the middle of a tour, or maybe at a trailhead, throw them in and feel really competent.
Make sure you don't buy rechargeable batteries though.
Few things, finally have a chance to sit down and type it all.
Hit up Rogers Pass for the first time ever on Saturday, and damn, I was blown away by the potential out there, plus it's only a half hour drive from my parents place.
We were going to make an attempt on heading up Video Peak, but decided to do some hot laps on Balu Pass instead. great snow on the ridge, took a line down the middle in some great untouched snow. The west side (I think) has been hammered by wind, and was all harder snow, plus lack of sun. Skied down that, and it was meh.
Sunday, we went out and hit up Little Highwood Pass in Kananaskis Country.
This area has been exposed to a ton of sun and wind, and in result, low snowpack.
Learnt a lot from this trip, kinda felt stupid since it was the first time anything like this has happened in the few years I've been touring, and all the years of experience skiing. Great reminder that communication and an exit strategy is key.
We approached the pass with a plan, simple. Ski the face, and come out the drainage.
Most of the day was spent with skis on the pack, due to the low snow pack.
View from the top was amazing, and the bowl behind the pass has so much potential, it would make a great overnight trip.
From the top, I dropped into the face. It was thin, and snow baked. Sluffed a lot of snow off the hill (there was only a few inches of snow pack anyways), and the sluff caught up with me, carried me a bit, and ended quickly. Stayed up on it the whole time, it was just a fun little ride.
As we approached the drainage, it was skis off again. Hike down, then hiked back up due to a cliff out. Just things we couldn't see from the highway.
Overall, made am interesting trip. Tons of hiking up and down, and moderate snow.
Me up a top of Little Highwood
And the face we tackled (right in the middle)
If anyone goes out to Kananaskis before it closes, stick with the back of Highwood. I've heard the snow out there is a lot better, and not sunfucked at all.
Also, for the context of this page, I'm using the Element as by beacon.
Haven't had to use it in a real life situation, but have had plenty of practice on it, and find it is very simple to use.
Huck_NorrisWhile this is true and a valid concern, it's all about familiarity. If he's reeeeeeeeally good with the T1, that's more than cool with me. I guarantee there are people out there with Pulses or 3+s that have never even ran drills with them so it definitely goes both ways. I know you guys know that but some people reading may not appreciate that fact.
That said, I rock a Pulse that I borrow from a good friend when I go places I need one- which is not often enough to buy my own quite honestly. I'm familiar with it, have used the same one for years and I'm confident in it's ability to work.
I'd still place familiarity over gadgetry though in 99.9% of cases.
100%. I'd rather work with someone using some old school analog shit with headphones (if he or she has used the fucker a hundred times) than some dipshit with a brand new pulse and a cute setup from REI. The more I see and learn (which at 31 isn't a whole lot compared to lots of people) I realize that people either walk the walk or they don't. Gear doesn't really mean shit (to a point) in the face of bad decision making.
And yeah, I know you know that, and a lot of people posting in here too, but lots of people reading this thread don't have a clue and reading posts in here might literally be their first step towards getting some skills and some gear.
Also, on a related note, how do you all store skins?
Right now mine are stuck, tip to tip in the beer drawer of my fridge, I hear the cold is good and there is more room in there than with my ski gear, haha
cydwhitAlso, on a related note, how do you all store skins?
Right now mine are stuck, tip to tip in the beer drawer of my fridge, I hear the cold is good and there is more room in there than with my ski gear, haha
i store mine with the dividers that come with most skins. i just hang my from a coat hanger in the closet. i think the most important thing is that theyre not exposed to moisture.
Most people frown on storing skins with the mesh they come with. The mesh can get messed up and wind up breaking down and sticking to the skin.
Just store them stuck together, I hang mine during the winter because it lets the dry better. In the off season, I just fold them up and shove them in a closet.
Ok, they're coming out of the beer drawer then, maybe too high of a chance of moisture in there. Mine didn't come with dividers so that call is easy. Thanks!
I just 'renewed' my ski glue, using a hot iron and some parchment paper. I have only heard about this technique before. It worked out really well so far, cleaned up the glue, re-distributed it, and now they look almost new and are super tacky .... I cant endorse this until I ski them this weekend ... there are better directions on the Google.
cydwhitOk, they're coming out of the beer drawer then, maybe too high of a chance of moisture in there. Mine didn't come with dividers so that call is easy. Thanks!
Definitely pick up some of the newer ones (that don't have the self destructing issue), otherwise known as cheater sheets. They allow air to circulate between the skin glue, which keeps it healthy longer. And on really cold days with wide skins, they can be the only way to pull your skins apart.
Beetle_KillMost people frown on storing skins with the mesh they come with. The mesh can get messed up and wind up breaking down and sticking to the skin.
Just store them stuck together, I hang mine during the winter because it lets the dry better. In the off season, I just fold them up and shove them in a closet.
really? i didnt think you were supposed to store them stuck together? im talking over the summer when they do not get used. i doubt you want to leave the glue stuck to all summer.
casual100%. I'd rather work with someone using some old school analog shit with headphones (if he or she has used the fucker a hundred times) than some dipshit with a brand new pulse and a cute setup from REI.
Ehhhhh... this (analog beacon) is where I draw the line. Just my personal opinion: throw every one of them in the trash.
First of all, I wouldn't go out with anyone who doesn't know how to use their equipment. But there's simply no reason anyone should be using an analog beacon at this stage. If you're the type of veteran who's actually used that shit for a decade, you spend enough time in the BC to go out and drop a few bucks on a modern beacon (even a used one). And I guarantee, the second you get the hang of it (i.e. one practice session), you will be faster with it.
I don't claim to be any sort of super experienced guy, but I don't care how good you are, I can almost certainly finish a search much more quickly with my 3 antenna beacon than you can with your analog. There may be a dozen guys out there who are the exception but I'm not trusting that you happen to be one of them.
Bakerpowreally? i didnt think you were supposed to store them stuck together? im talking over the summer when they do not get used. i doubt you want to leave the glue stuck to all summer.
I just store them glue on glue, even for extended periods. No real problems so far, but I do pull them apart while they're still warm before bringing them out and having them go from warm and stuck together for months--> freezing together and possibly getting fucked up. Those separator mesh thingies are ok, but a pain in the ass- they drive me crazy and I feel like dust/dirt is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to them, whereas maybe pulling a few little tiny specks of glue now and then really doesn't do shit to their function. Glue on glue is the best way of sealing out the bullshit though IMO so that's the biggest reason I do it.
For similar reasons I really hate the fact that this exists, to a point where I'm tempted to say it's irresponsible for Black Diamond to even continue selling it.
cydwhitAlso, on a related note, how do you all store skins?
Right now mine are stuck, tip to tip in the beer drawer of my fridge, I hear the cold is good and there is more room in there than with my ski gear, haha
i dry them out unstuck then store them glue to glue. it's worked well for the past few years with my ascensions.
Huck_NorrisI just store them glue on glue, even for extended periods. No real problems so far, but I do pull them apart while they're still warm before bringing them out and having them go from warm and stuck together for months--> freezing together and possibly getting fucked up. Those separator mesh thingies are ok, but a pain in the ass- they drive me crazy and I feel like dust/dirt is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to them, whereas maybe pulling a few little tiny specks of glue now and then really doesn't do shit to their function. Glue on glue is the best way of sealing out the bullshit though IMO so that's the biggest reason I do it.
Just my .02 though.
I don't actually use them when I tour. Just storing them. Also especially where I ski moisture is huge and I really have to make sure they dry out after a day on the hill. Easiest way to dry them for me is to hang them over a coat hanger. Actually now that I think about it during the season I usually keep them stuck together just based on how often I use them. I agree the sheets suck to use a ton but for summer storage it's a charm.
BakerpowI don't actually use them when I tour. Just storing them. Also especially where I ski moisture is huge and I really have to make sure they dry out after a day on the hill. Easiest way to dry them for me is to hang them over a coat hanger. Actually now that I think about it during the season I usually keep them stuck together just based on how often I use them. I agree the sheets suck to use a ton but for summer storage it's a charm.
I am looking to get Volkl ones with MFD alltimes with Look pivots. I have fulltilt knoflicts. I live in Vermont and ski there and slides in the adorondacks
HGSkiBum15I am looking to get Volkl ones with MFD alltimes with Look pivots. I have fulltilt knoflicts. I live in Vermont and ski there and slides in the adorondacks
Spent a couple nights at Kokanee Glacier cabin. Got one good day of touring on Giegerich and John Carter. Snowpack at 2250 meters was 80 cm with the rain crust down 25. Massive whore frost (1inch) forming below treeline. Lots of wind affect in the alpine made for some variable snow and interesting skiing.
L.J.S.Spent a couple nights at Kokanee Glacier cabin. Got one good day of touring on Giegerich and John Carter. Snowpack at 2250 meters was 80 cm with the rain crust down 25. Massive whore frost (1inch) forming below treeline. Lots of wind affect in the alpine made for some variable snow and interesting skiing.
Was thinking about heading up there on the weekend. Is the road still good up to the Gibson Lake parking lot?
Just signed up for an Avy 1 class and couldn't be more stoked! I have a couple questions though. What would you guys advise I do before the class to prepare? Any good books or anything like that I should read beforehand? Also my dad is in the market for a pack for touring as he is taking the class with me next month. I already have a Dakine heli pro 20 L right now that I am planning on using as long as possible but what would you suggest my dad gets? We are just beginning so we will probably be sticking to shorter tours for the foreseeable future.
tbusath8what would you suggest my dad gets? We are just beginning so we will probably be sticking to shorter tours for the foreseeable future.
Without getting into too much detail, anything will do if you're going for short hikes. As long as it's big enough to fit your shovel inside the pack and is a good fit, it'll do just fine.
tbusath8Just signed up for an Avy 1 class and couldn't be more stoked! I have a couple questions though. What would you guys advise I do before the class to prepare? Any good books or anything like that I should read beforehand? Also my dad is in the market for a pack for touring as he is taking the class with me next month. I already have a Dakine heli pro 20 L right now that I am planning on using as long as possible but what would you suggest my dad gets? We are just beginning so we will probably be sticking to shorter tours for the foreseeable future.
I use a 20L for short sidecountry tours and a 40L for real backcountry. I find that I have a hard time fitting avy gear plus skins, first aid kit, extra layers and food/water in the 20L. I think something around 30L is ideal for typical short day tours.
tbusath8I already have a Dakine heli pro 20 L right now that I am planning on using as long as possible but what would you suggest my dad gets? We are just beginning so we will probably be sticking to shorter tours for the foreseeable future.
Black Diamond Alias is good. 30L-ish which seems ideal to me. I have a Heli Pro but wouldn't take it on an actual touring day, it's more a resort / slack pack for me.
jcaI use a 20L for short sidecountry tours and a 40L for real backcountry. I find that I have a hard time fitting avy gear plus skins, first aid kit, extra layers and food/water in the 20L. I think something around 30L is ideal for typical short day tours.
Almost no point in a first aid kit unless you know what you're doing. Just limit it to some bandages and stuff and save the weight. But yeah, beacon, shovel, probe, skins, layers, food, water, extra socks, duct tape, heli straps, flashlight, and extra batteries.
J.D.Almost no point in a first aid kit unless you know what you're doing. Just limit it to some bandages and stuff and save the weight. But yeah, beacon, shovel, probe, skins, layers, food, water, extra socks, duct tape, heli straps, flashlight, and extra batteries.
yeah, mine's more of a "survival" kit based off what I bring flying. Pretty much what you said plus vaseline dipped cotton balls (amazing fire starter), pain killers, cordage, a couple space blankets, a tensor band, and a good knife.
tbusath8Just signed up for an Avy 1 class and couldn't be more stoked! I have a couple questions though. What would you guys advise I do before the class to prepare? Any good books or anything like that I should read beforehand? Also my dad is in the market for a pack for touring as he is taking the class with me next month. I already have a Dakine heli pro 20 L right now that I am planning on using as long as possible but what would you suggest my dad gets? We are just beginning so we will probably be sticking to shorter tours for the foreseeable future.
Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper is the definitive text. I'm planning to reread my copy before my Level 2 this winter. Some of it may be way over your head, or hard to grasp, but it'll come back when you're in the class, because it won't be entirely new.
Agreed on the 30L pack. I've never had good luck with Dakine's durability; really liking Osprey's stuff at the moment.
As far as first aid kit and other essentials, here's what's in my pack:
First aid, mostly oriented towards trauma. I've carried a sam splint before:
-Various absorption bandages and gauze.
-Two ace wraps
-CPR mask
-Vicodin, Ibprophen
Essentials:
-Leatherman, with knife and scissors and pliers
-200 lumen headlamp with spare batteries
-Duct tape
-Zip ties
-Gearaid tenacious tape for clothing/sleeping bags/tents
-Four heli straps, which also cross over to the first aid
-TP/wipes/hand sanitizer
-Some plastic bags
-Extra beacon batteries
-Spare tail strap and clip for my skins
-Waterproof emergency bivi sack
-Radio (when it makes sense with the situation)
