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NS Conservatives

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95959
Posts: 2765 - Karma: 377
Greetings to the conservative among us. I have for you a simple question derived from legitimate curiosity.

Why are you conservative?

None of my young conservative friends can give me a straight answer that doesn't involve some sort of mud flinging. Hit ya boy up with some level headed answers
Nov 7 2012 3:47PM
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Ac31stuff
Posts: 557 - Karma: 10
GO FUCK YOURSELF that is all
Nov 11 2012 9:06PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
People who make under 15,000 a year (let's say they're all on welfare) are 13% of the population but only 6% of the actual vote. They split about 70-30 Democrat in 2008. Compare that to voters who are over $200,000 annual income and make up 3.8% of the population and are also 6% of the vote. Those are 2008 numbers.

Also why would people on welfare not be allowed to vote?
Nov 11 2012 9:31PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Well you have the overall poverty rate of 46.2 million people. Mitt Romney lost the popular vote by only about 3.2 million, even closer if you consider that all the people who voted Gary Johnson in all likelihood would have voted for Romney in a run-off.

It's hypothetical of course, but it's interesting that you didn't give an answer.

Maybe I do believe in some "pay to play" when it comes to deciding who runs the government.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”

- Alexis de Tocqueville


Nov 12 2012 11:24AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51257 - Karma: 157,315
Everyone should have the ability to vote. I hate the abuse of the welfare system in this country, and I think we should dismantle it. At the same time, why the hell would you want to keep people who receive welfare from voting?


Oh it's because they have interests to protect and will constantly vote for somebody who will protect those? Well wake up and look at this country these days. This country is practically run on special interests. Look at the way people campaign these days. They make all kinds of ridiculous promises to get votes. Look at all the lobbying that goes on these days, there is a ton of money being spent and they want a return on that.


I don't like who the majority of people vote for, I don't like the ignorance they bring to it, but I definitely respect their right to go in their and vote.


You can listen to fox or cnn, get a viewpoint from total propaganda, then cast a vote for who they told you to like. That's totally cool, so why go after the people on welfare?


I think the problems are on us as a people honestly. It's kind of our job to keep the government in check, and we've done a horrendous job of it. The people have the power, but the people right now are terribly ignorant and divided.

If we keep going down the road we are as a country, we're basically fucked, it might even be too late honestly. At the same time the welfare problem is a very small part of the problems facing out country right now so no need for that kind of hate.

"Maybe I do believe in some "pay to play" when it comes to deciding who runs the government. "

I wish you would just scrap that and this country would believe in a "don't be a fucking idiot to play" system when it comes to deciding who runs the government.


Shockingly 2012 came and the same shit is going to happen for another 4 years. I'd like to say I'm shocked but it's pretty easy to get used to something when it happens election after election.

Now in 2012 a shitty republican candidate is going to win because everyone will be making a point to get that evil obama out of office. The same way everyone was trying their hardest to get that evil bush out of office.

I wish I could plug this logic into a generator and power my house because it seems to be quite perpetual.


Nov 12 2012 11:45AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
That's actually a great idea. Maybe like some kind of basic civics test that you need to pass in order to be admitted to vote, similar to the citizenship test they give. I'll admit there's plenty of dumb rednecks that vote Republican that I consider too stupid to vote as well.

Would never work though, it would be considered "racist". Even asking someone to bring ID is somehow racist.
Nov 12 2012 11:53AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51257 - Karma: 157,315
I don't want that.


As much as people piss me off with their bullshit sometimes, I'll defend their right to cast their ignorant votes.

When the majority of the country get's all their information regarding politics from one of the major news networks, it makes this kind of hard. It's pretty easy to sway people when you have their attention for years watching all the time.


I bet if a news network wanted to do a study on this, they could spend the whole election getting people stoked on keyboard cat and probably could get him 10% of the votes. The influence is insane. As long as that's how people role I think we're screwed.

They should just make the election into a reality show. People would love it, it would be a little more entertaining(even though I hate reality tv) and the outcome would be about the same.
Nov 12 2012 12:17PM
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jeR.
Posts: 1325 - Karma: 58
i wish this could happen in theory however there are voters in both parties who are relatively ignorant due to their circumstances - lack of education, poverty, etc. these people constitute a significant part of the US population and contribute to the base of both parties (ie inner city/ rural voters). the elected leaders should represent everyone not just the educated, and that means everyone, no matter what values, race, religion, or even level of intelligence. plus that is what the electoral system is for, a checkpoint on the passions of the people.

the reason that you or I consider people to stupid to vote is that this country's education system has failed them. the functioning of democracy hinges on an educated population - they need to understand what their voice means. what we need is universal education, paid by tax dollars, that is actually effective and adapted to a changing society.
Nov 12 2012 1:56PM
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207
Posts: 8969 - Karma: 3,846
you misused "to" in the first sentence of the second paragraph it should be "too"...a bit ironic.

Anyhow, you've got to be shitting me, we have a universal education paid for by tax dollars, it's called public schooling. I'll agree public education failed me which is why I went to a private school but I know for a fact of some very successful public schools, it all just depends on the area/town you live in.
Nov 12 2012 3:24PM
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Ac31stuff
Posts: 557 - Karma: 10
a greater proportion of whites have IDs than minoritys so it is racist.
Nov 12 2012 6:19PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Another solid post there chief. It's racist because somehow minorities are too dumb to figure out how to get an identification card, according to you.
Nov 12 2012 8:12PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
instead of putting the candidates names on the ballots, they should put the key points and values of their policies. and they all have to be true and not BS lies
Nov 12 2012 8:15PM
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BrewskiJr
Posts: 5738 - Karma: 1,478
Click for larger image
Nov 12 2012 8:15PM
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DubV134
Posts: 1541 - Karma: 690
"if you are young and republican you don't have a heart, if you are older and are a democrat you don't have a brain"
Nov 12 2012 8:33PM
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Ac31stuff
Posts: 557 - Karma: 10
Winston Churchhill said something like that
Nov 12 2012 8:58PM
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brosephstalin
Posts: 429 - Karma: 8
Right-wing racists like you shouldn't have the right to vote.
Nov 16 2012 12:52PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Communist scum like you shouldn't have the right to breathe.
Nov 16 2012 3:09PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227

Nov 16 2012 3:25PM
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jeR.
Posts: 1325 - Karma: 58
sick correcting my grammar. cool. but yeah man you got my point, yes I am aware that USA has universal public education, but is this education adapted to a rapidly changing world? No. conservatives in the south undermining scientific education by bolstering support for creationism is archaic, and somewhat fundamentalist. do we want to compete with China in science and engineering (thus manufacturing) or do we want children to blindly believe idiotic faith? some public schools are ok. for democracy to truly function, every single child needs a great education, in order to have an informed opinion about the society that their vote is capable of affecting. every child. paid by taxes, not private enterprise.
Nov 23 2012 6:02PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18212 - Karma: 12,256
Cry about it.

People like you who like Stalin and all that shit and have a boner for atheism shouldn't have the right to vote, either.
Nov 23 2012 6:27PM
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95959
Posts: 2765 - Karma: 377
that video was fucking stupid
Nov 23 2012 6:52PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Yea because I'm sure people who receive welfare vote for politicians who want to cut them off.


Did you ever consider the possibility that many of those states vote Republican precisely because they're sick of their welfare populations living off of them?


Nov 23 2012 7:00PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
No, your dad telling you to do coke is fucking stupid.

For your sake I hope that's just some kind of inside joke that I'm not aware of.
Nov 23 2012 7:01PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Maybe I should've specified further, I meant specifically those who take while putting nothing in. Examples like the Obamaphone lady come to mind. I'm talking about those able-bodied people who contribute nothing to society, who are paid simply for existing.


However, the article you posted represents an even greater problem, the fact that we have a middle and lower-middle class people that are often completely dependent on government as well. That being said, there is a huge difference between the earned-income tax credit compared to say TANF and SNAP.

Nov 24 2012 7:24AM
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ElMexicano
Posts: 639 - Karma: 400
Its called being libertarian. Some people don't agree with the foreign policy but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQs5hoHW_Qc
Watch this all through and then get back to me.
Ron Paul is a libertarian, but everyone knows the two party's run everything so he tried to gain traction in the GOP.
Nov 24 2012 7:58AM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18212 - Karma: 12,256
Except he's a hippy, and wants to legalize every drug.... Who would vote for that?
Nov 24 2012 8:59AM
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E-Nix
Posts: 382 - Karma: 187
The liberation party has a few wrinkles they need to iron out, however Gary Johnson was only are pushing for the legalization of marijuana. Its the middleman party that America needs in this modern world. The parties beliefs would help the largest group of people. I think that once they get the attention they deserve and fix a couple of their ideas that they will be the future of America. Also Gary Johnson road bikes, skis, runs the death race, does ironman triathlons and has summited Mount Everest, he would be the most bad ass president ever... who wouldn't vote for that?
Nov 24 2012 8:18PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18212 - Karma: 12,256
Okay, Marijuana I'm down with legalizing, not all drugs though. Johnson is a badass haha.
Nov 24 2012 8:46PM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
whoever said that is an idiot.

someone find me the statistics of % of post-secondary educated people who vote democrat and the % of high school dropouts who vote republican..
Nov 24 2012 8:53PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18212 - Karma: 12,256
Implying that Winston Churchill is an idiot.
Nov 24 2012 8:57PM
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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,841
How has the war on drugs been going, eh? Shall we continue to pump money into an endless conflict that claims lives, destroys communities, and leads to constant social injustice? Drug users will use drugs. The government won't change that.
Nov 24 2012 8:57PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18212 - Karma: 12,256
But they can help stop it, and put those who do fucked up drugs in jail and teach them a lesson, and show other people what the consequences are? Do you really want hard drugs legalized?
Nov 24 2012 8:58PM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
apparently on this matter, yes. the stats speak against him.
Nov 24 2012 9:00PM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
lol. look it up actually. Churchill did NOT say that.
Nov 24 2012 9:04PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18212 - Karma: 12,256
http://www.chacha.com/question/who-said-'if-you-are-young-and-a-republican,-you-have-no-heart,-if-you-are-old-and-a-democrat,-you-have-no-brain'

Looked it up and got this. Wut, who said it then? Curious haha
Nov 24 2012 9:06PM
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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,841
Yeah I do. If people want to ravage their own lives then they should be allowed to do so. There's no point in fueling a war in Mexico and locking up countless Americans while fighting a conflict we can't possibly win. Why should we continue with a strategy that clearly doesn't work?
Nov 24 2012 9:06PM
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1337
Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,002
quoting for 15 year old brilliance
Nov 24 2012 9:11PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
the alternative to the drug war would be legalizing meth and cocaine. not a realistic or sensible alternative.
Nov 24 2012 9:13PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18212 - Karma: 12,256
quoting for 15 year old brilliance
Nov 24 2012 9:13PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
Like the red states. Fuck yea, lets get rid of them. I hate giving my tax dollars to those mal-educated freeloading conservative Neanderthals.
Nov 24 2012 9:20PM
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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,841
It's not realistic but I do think it is sensible. People do drugs. Why not eliminate the conflict and destruction that takes place before the drugs get to them?
Nov 24 2012 9:20PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18212 - Karma: 12,256
I hate the city too, thank God we can agree on one thing!
Nov 24 2012 9:21PM
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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,841
He learned some big "real world lessons" in private school.
Nov 24 2012 9:22PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
O yeah im also just gonna leave this here...

Click for larger image
Nov 24 2012 9:26PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
Because they ruin peoples' lives and if you make it easy to obtain them, they will ruin more peoples' lives, particularly as a result of recruiting users at young ages when they're too stupid to make rational decisions about their own wellbeing.
Nov 24 2012 9:37PM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
yea no. it's wrong.

The first and most obvious thing is Winston Churchill was a god damned Brit. No Brit would EVER say democrat/republican. ever ever ever. They would say conservative/liberal.

Looked it up and found this as the "proper" quote:

“Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.”
― Winston Churchill

then I looked up that, and found that it's in this list:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/List_of_misquotations


and on this website listed as never being said:

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/speeches/quotations/quotes-falsely-attributed



Nov 24 2012 9:48PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
the Drug war, and our prison-industrial complex is what is ruining peoples lives. There has been virtually no change in drug usage since the drug was was declared so why not legalize it so junkies can use without costing the rest of the country a fortune when they get locked up.

Not only that but prisons get too crowded and murders end up being let off early because they need to make room for low profile drug dealers.

"In the face of a growing number of deaths and cases of HIV linked to drug abuse, the Portuguese government in 2001 tried a new tack to get a handle on the problem—it decriminalized the use and possession of heroin, cocaine, marijuana, LSD and other illicit street drugs. The theory: focusing on treatment and prevention instead of jailing users would decrease the number of deaths and infections.

Five years later, the number of deaths from street drug overdoses dropped from around 400 to 290 annually, and the number of new HIV cases caused by using dirty needles to inject heroin, cocaine and other illegal substances plummeted from nearly 1,400 in 2000 to about 400 in 2006" - Scientific American

Let us not forget also the insane amount of organized crime that prohibition creates.

Legalizing or decriminalizing drugs isnt just better for those who use but for the rest of society.

Nov 24 2012 10:08PM
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ElMexicano
Posts: 639 - Karma: 400
aKrieg and Amadeus.
Thanks for making points while I was gone.

Points
- People will use drugs
- Prohibition creates violence and black markets
- We have spent $1,000,000,000,000+ on the war on drugs
- Drug use remains pretty much the same

Quick google and
About 40 percent of high school seniors admit to having taken some illegal drug in the last year — up from 30 percent two decades ago, according to the Monitoring the Future survey, financed by the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

For instance, 2.9 percent of high school seniors admit to having tried cocaine in the last year, just slightly less than in 1992

You may say so we need to spend more money on it?
We have -$16,000,000,000,000 ... $1,000,000,000,000 did pretty much nothing and we have no more money to put in a failed drug policy.

-Legalizing drugs doesn't make more people use drugs.
Look at Portugal
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/07/05/ten-years-after-decriminalization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/

Oh yeah but drugs should be Illegal because they are bad.
Yes they are bad but making them illegal doesn't do anything but create organized crime.
Nov 24 2012 10:27PM
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