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I propose that we clamp down on stupid 12 year old shit-talking

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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Every god damn day someone says to me "Oh, Newschoolers... isn't that the place where 12 year olds talk shit?"

Even on this fucking site I hear the same god damn shit over and over.

However... I see the demographics of the users... and hardly anyone is 12. Most people on here are mid-late teens running into mid-late 20s.

Personally, I think the problem is people in their late teens, 20s and 30s ACTING like fucking stupid 12 year olds. Hell, I bet the 12 year olds are too scared to act stupid.

So I propose that we crush this 'stupid bitchy 12 year old' type behaviour. Hell, in the old days the rules of moderation were "Fuck you - there is no rules. We delete shit when its fucking stupid and your shit was stupid so STFU."

I mean does anyone like it? I'm talking about when a perfectly good discussion thread goes to complete shit because 2-3 people get angry at each other and just start saying 'you're wrong you fag... you're so faggy faggy fag that you can't fagging fag fag fag."

Fuck that. Its annoying, and we could actually be having some rad conversations about cool shit. I have zero problems with people calling shit out, just do it like you aren't a fucking 11 year old moron. When you call someone out, do it with intelligence and a good fucking point.

Isn't that a better burn than calling someone a stupid name anyway?

Nov 1 2012 10:03PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
(btw if you're 12 and reading this, I have nothing against 12 year olds, its simply a perception of the site. Legally 12 year olds can't be on here without parents permission anyway)

Nov 1 2012 10:04PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9926 - Karma: 9,344
I concur
Nov 1 2012 10:09PM
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1337
Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,002
Quoting for emphasis/so it is seen by more people.

Nothing says "PWN'D" to me like witty, well backed argument with a tad bit of humor/sarcasm to really seal the deal. You want to win an argument on the internet, that's how it's done. Not by calling someone a "fagging faggy fag faggot" (fucking lol'd at that Doug)
Nov 1 2012 10:10PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Fuck this, need opinions... moving to ski gabber and breaking rules.
Nov 1 2012 10:44PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Nothing?
Nov 1 2012 11:03PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7259 - Karma: 33,216
Id be fine with this. The only people that will complain are the ones doing dumb shit.
Nov 1 2012 11:03PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
I even wonder if those doing stupid shit want stupid shit on the site.... I have a feeling they only do it because it happens, but would have a better time with quality conversation.
Nov 1 2012 11:04PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7259 - Karma: 33,216
I think for everything but MAYBE nsg should be like this. NSG i could seeing be more relaxed but SG and geartalk should be quality not faggy fag fag fag
Nov 1 2012 11:06PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
TBH I can roll with that. NSG is an entity on its own... perhaps actually NSG is where you should go to get this kind of shit off your chest. SG and all the other sections are where you go to be a contributing member to the skiing community.

Nov 1 2012 11:09PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
How exactly are you sure of the age of the users? I'm sure there must be a way, but if it's the age people say they are when they sign up I doubt that's very accurate. Maybe there is some type of technology available as one of the site creators that tells you users actual age, I'm not sure. That being said, there may not be that many actual 12 yo kids, but there sure as hell are a lot around 14ish. I mean you go through bst and see the pictures of these kids modeling their apparel and can clearly tell many of them are not their late teens.. and these are the same kids posting all the immature shit in the other forums.
Nov 1 2012 11:11PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
I agree 1000%.

NSG is bullshit, I haven't been there in at least a year, SG is filled with dumb threads or good threads that get ruined by dumb shit, GT is somewhat safe if you can get passed all the "how will this look?" threads (which is one of the reasons I spend most of my time there), M&A is probably the safest place on this site (I don't post there often, but I do check it frequently). Mods should be allowed to delete whatever they want, if something is dumb, delete it, if people bitch, fuck them unless they can give a legitimate reason to why they shouldn't have had their post deleted. If a mod deletes one of my posts (not that it happens often), 9 times out of 10 I'll agree with it cause I was either in a bad mood or just being dumb, but I don't argue with them. I'm all for turning the occasional stupid, pointless, redundant thread into a "picture of pokemon" thread until it eventually gets deleted, but ruining good threads that have a point is the most frustrating thing on this site.
Nov 1 2012 11:12PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Its philisophical - I didn't mean an age block. Honestly, I can see everyone's age and such. Its not actually young kids that are immature... its everyone that acts that way when they get offended.

My point is that we should crack down on immature behaviour. The people who ACT like the immature '12 year olds'.

Nov 1 2012 11:14PM
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[J_Gasper]
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 1,594
I think NS does this way to much in general. I hate to say it, but M&A is really the only forum that isnt completely full of bullshit these days. In ski gabber and non ski gabber, "kids" act ignorant and try to be witty and sarcastic. I know there is a time and place for that, but when someone asks a simple question, RESPOND TO IT! I love NS'ers humor, and i dont wanna become stuck up like TGR, but people need to stop acting like a d bag about everything.
Nov 1 2012 11:14PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Define deeper... are you saying that you agree there is too much stupid immaturity?

Nov 1 2012 11:15PM
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[J_Gasper]
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 1,594
Yes. Thats exactly what im trying to say. Like i said, there is a time and place for it, but a lot of the time people are just being assholes.
Nov 1 2012 11:17PM
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Keith_M
Posts: 795 - Karma: 771
I would highly appreciate more productive discussion and less arguing among users.
Nov 1 2012 11:18PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
double post, don't care...

I'm ok with this. NSG can be on it's own as far as quality is concerned, that way, if you don't want to deal with bullshit you don't have to go there.

I feel like this is especially important now that threads show up on the front page. Once a good quality thread reaches a high enough rating and everyone goes to it from the front page there's a better chance it gets shit on. In fact, and I don't know if there's a way to do this, but it would be nice if NSG pages didn't show up on the splash page for this reason.
Nov 1 2012 11:18PM
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Backyard.Skier
Posts: 5397 - Karma: 1,497
i laughed
Nov 1 2012 11:19PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
Oh by all means I agree, and I agree with flashkicks above post about deleting dumb/immature posts and threads. I mean if it's obvious the kid is trolling and trying to get a reaction out of the members just go ahead and delete it without warning. Hell, delete all the "will this jacket look good with these pants" threads. Let them cry about it, they'll learn that that isn't how this community works. I mean it may sound harsh, but no one cares what your outfits look like, and that's not what gear talk should be used for. It's meant for talk about the tech behind garments, questions on hardgoods, and that kind of stuff.
Nov 1 2012 11:20PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Way ahead of you. ;)

Nov 1 2012 11:21PM
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Dr.Gonzo
Posts: 2552 - Karma: 87
thread is logical, but i mean i really don't think the community is going to get with this. I mean im all for it, but not 5 minutes ago i told someone to use a door knob as a buttplug in another thread so i really shouldn't be talking...
Nov 1 2012 11:22PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
I think we all need an outlet. NSG is just that place... where you go if you want to just let it all hang out.

It would likely help keep the rest of the site clean. All we need is more heavy moderation of 'stupidity'. Of course it will be debated, and people will disagree... but we need to stop the insanity. I mean really, do solid debates about awesome topics in skiing need to degrade into fagcallery?

No.
Nov 1 2012 11:22PM
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walrussteeze
Posts: 327 - Karma: 212
I think that the topics in NSG have a lot more varying perspectives than the ones in SG, therefore there is much more argument.In that argument someone likely gets offended and then attacks the person posting the comment instead of refuting the comment  then it just snowballs from there.Personally, if I get pissed off then I'm going to post some stupid shit and I have no problem with mods deleting it.
Nov 1 2012 11:29PM
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Keith_M
Posts: 795 - Karma: 771
I just had this awful thought that NSG could end up like /b/ where they go raid the other boards haha...

That wouldn't happen here, but ostracizing NSG from the home page like that just makes me think of it as a whole different community. Like the insane asylum section of the site. Which it is a lot of the time.
Nov 1 2012 11:29PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
There will certainly be a relearning phase...but it is possible.

I don't think people need to be banned for stupid posts (unless they actually require a ban based on the rules), just delete the post, they'll get an explanation via PM as always and eventually, after enough of their posts are deleted they will learn what not to post where.

I do think that this would probably mean more mods would be required...it's already hard enough to keep up, to really crack down would take more people.
Nov 1 2012 11:30PM
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currentwestman
Posts: 3292 - Karma: 330
didnt read thread but demographics dont mean shiiit. anyone whos 12 puts their age at 15 on the sign up form. look at the demographic of skiers at your mountains park these days. its a lotttt of 12 and 13 year olds. thats whos on NS
Nov 1 2012 11:30PM
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Big_C
Posts: 243 - Karma: -9
do it i hate when great threads get ruined like this totally pisses me off and i dont come on as often because of it i love NS i think that would be a great improvment
Nov 1 2012 11:30PM
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TACO-DOG.exe
Posts: 11986 - Karma: 12,239
honestly, i don't have the time or patients to type out a 1000 word argument about why my opinion is better than others. and it's the internet, people get bored, they go on their computers to dick around and try to piss people off in a childish way.

Nov 1 2012 11:32PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Absolutely no ban necessary. Just more strict delete rules in good conversations. Bans should only happen if someone is just an absolute fucking git. Just wants to make the place worse for everyone...

If NSG can be a free-for-all (which it is and that is what makes it fun) then we can keep SG / other forums a place where we're only talking about good stuff. It doesnt' have to be stiff either - there is a drastic difference between being loose and being annoying.

Nov 1 2012 11:34PM
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AwR
Posts: 5147 - Karma: 1,878
Interesting. Very interesting. This new site has lit a fire under some peoples asses.


Nov 1 2012 11:34PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
So you're part of the problem eh?
Nov 1 2012 11:35PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
Which is what NSG is for...but SG/M&A/GT should be for meaningful discussion or for help on relevant topics.
Nov 1 2012 11:37PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Support / hate?

Listen bottom line I'm in this shit for the long haul. I'm pretty sure that about 95% of us are

We have the power as a community to guide the entire sport in one direction or the other. Lets guide it in the right direction that makes it a gigantic slice of awesome.

Nov 1 2012 11:38PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
OR GTFO!

;)
Nov 1 2012 11:39PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7259 - Karma: 33,216
which you would still be able to do on NSG.

So many people I have talked to get turned off of NS because they are sick of all the mindless hate.
Nov 1 2012 11:40PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
The funny part is we've been through this before. I'm absolutely confident that 95% of the community doesn't like mindless hate in their ski talk. Calling shit out that deserves it - fine. Aggressive opinons - fine.

Stupid immature hate? Useless.

Nobody likes that kind of shit. There's just a few attention-whores who are likely losers in real life that want to cause shit on the internet. Fuck them.

We can experiment with turning up the moderating. We can play around, see if it gets too heavy and work from there.

I mean lets just keep an open dialogue about this kind of thing. We control this place. We can do anything - if we hate something then we crush it. If we go too far, we back off.
Nov 1 2012 11:43PM
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AwR
Posts: 5147 - Karma: 1,878
No I am for it.

It is just a trip to look how things are changing (for the better imo) around here. I just pose the usual questions as of why now? Why not 3 years ago? Did something happen in your 30s to be taken more seriously? I have always loved NS. No matter what site you go on there will be dip shits/ignorance.


Nov 1 2012 11:45PM
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TACO-DOG.exe
Posts: 11986 - Karma: 12,239
maybe i am, but you seriously think that every single is going to make a meaningful post in every thread? you can go to any other forum and you will find the exact same thing as we have here. people want to troll/be stupid/try to be funny.

and to bwhalmer's post quoting mine, i agree. all the other forums should be like m&a, except for nsg of course.
Nov 1 2012 11:46PM
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steezywannabeezy
Posts: 990 - Karma: 690
Usually I just give a few clicks on the -k instead of lashing out. I just might start quoting stupid shit and replying "-k" to make the point that stupid people are only worth deserving a negative rep--not arguing with. On that note, I will try to limit my occasional 12-year-old-ness.
Nov 1 2012 11:47PM
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1337
Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,002
You're starting to miss the point that I believe doug is trying to say/make:

It's not supposed to be just on the moderators to clean up the forums. That's stupid, and why would it be up to a few of us to decide what goes and what doesn't? And when we miss a post? How would this be effective if only we changed our attitude and everyone else went on with the bashing? It'd take a fuckload of effort and time.

The point is that those "seasoned veterans" you talk about should be behind it too. They need to put their feet down, and say cut the shit, the bashing, the awful arguments and trolling. If they teach the noobs that you shouldn't act like a total twat, and demonstrate through actions how it's done, the whole scene will drastically change. The more people we have on board, the quicker the vibe will subconsciously shift and the sooner the "noobs" learn how to post in a thread.

"Be the change you want to see"
Nov 1 2012 11:51PM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
We need to find reasons to get more of the older/mature crowd posting. You can't expect them to stick around every day. Maybe implement things like n00bs can only post/comment every 10 minutes so they aren't spamming stupid shit. IM not sure how you would implement who can post more than others but it could probably be done.
Nov 1 2012 11:54PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5674 - Karma: 4,227
I wonder if the people who post stupid shit even realize it's stupid. Stupid being defined as almost everybody else thinks it's stupid. Then if the mods delete it they get all "the mods are censoring too much waaaahhhhhhambulance" which isn't necessarily true. In reality it's the mods just removing 20 posts of two kids bitching, with no exchange of actual thought.

Arguing is fine, and should be allowed, as long as it doesn't turn to an exchange of "fuck yous." Although in my opinion people need to just calm down, cause getting your jimmies rustled about something that can't be proven is kinda useless. People have differing opinions, live with it.

Also on TV their is a commercial for flood insurance, lul? Not that anybody that was hit hard could see it but...
Nov 1 2012 11:56PM
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1337
Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,002
yeah, definitely need to emphasize that this isn't about getting rid of arguments/clashing opinions/debating. It's simply trying to raise the bar of from name calling, shit spewing, fallacy filled bickering to a slightly higher class act of sound, logical arguments with more witty "gotchas" than "U R RONG FAGET's!"

Nov 2 2012 12:00AM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
It's not the 12 year olds. It's the late teenage and early twenties individuals that think they know everything but are really arrogant assholes with tunnel vision. That and the stupid slutty chicks that come here for attention but most of the guys like them because of the nudes they send.

I'm 30 now. I thought I knew everything when I was 17 too. Just saying.

Damn, we're old Doug. Thankfully we're not alone as this place was founded by "an old wooden ship". (Quoted by one Mr. David Amirault)

Honestly, NS has been kicking ass for longer than I've been a member (or even lurked as it was intimidating to join back in the day) and will for years (hopefully decades) to come. These youngins just have access to the internet and all this social media bullshit way too early in life.

Can we e-pistol whip them? I told you guys to make me a mod a long time ago...
Nov 2 2012 12:01AM
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1337
Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,002
True, though it seemed like you viewed it as a daunting task, and (IMO) it really isn't.

If we can get 25 people here to change their attitudes, and spred it through the different forums, it will take root. And that vine will spred as long as we keep tending it (and maybe add a few fertilizer concoctions to help speed the process ;)
Nov 2 2012 12:03AM
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k-fred
Posts: 5363 - Karma: 1,598
be strick as fuck outside of nsg and let the 12 y old acting people have fun in nsg. I 100% agree with having serious and meaningful threads outside of nsg. also dont be afraid to delete post, if you have a good reason to delete it then so be it.no explanation needed,I'm pretty sure 99.9% of ns believe that you guys mod and admin do their job properly.
Nov 2 2012 12:05AM
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BNik
Posts: 543 - Karma: 268
I was scared to post at 16.
Nov 2 2012 12:12AM
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KAS
Posts: 1417 - Karma: 68
FINALLY. I've been waiting for you or some red name to say something about this kind of thing.
Nov 2 2012 12:14AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Honestly I think that its just time to inject some awesome back into Newschoolers. People have the wrong perception of the site... too much shit talking... too much hate... etc. That is bullshit - this is the fucking beating heart and soul of the freeskiing movement.

NS has grown to such a massive scale it is barely comprehensible. You could fill Yankee stadium 15 times in one month with individual non-repeating people with the amount of folks that come here every day. That is fucking unbelievable... no other ski media can even touch that kind of exposure. Everyone goes on Newschoolers... from normal weekend warriors, to team managers, to pros to regular skiers of all ages.

Somehow I feel like the community has forgotten its own identity. For some reason that tiny percentage of people who are here to ruin everyone's day are perceived as the core of NS. That is fucking bullshit... again - this is where the revolution in skiing is happening and this is a community made up of phenomenal people who as a group can drive this sport in the direction it is supposed to be going in.

That is why we've bet absolutely everything that we have on the community. I mean really process that... this is a real business with real employees. I have a mortgage, a wife, a child, car payments, debt... all the normal 'real' adult shit. I'm taking my one and only source of income and betting not only mine, but my family's future on this community.

Why?

Because with every ounce of my soul, I know that here is where the movement lives. The people that make up this community embody the soul of freeskiing... embody newschool... hell embody hot dogging in a way like couldn't even survive before. We are the future of this sport, and I will bet absolutely everything against that.

I just want to make sure that we stand up for the right things. I want to make sure that we don't let ourselves get off the rails because we're too afraid to stand up and say "Bro... I would like to have a better conversation than this." There is no need for stupidity, there is no need for the perception of immaturity. We can be youthful, aggressive, boundary breaking and intelligent all at the same time.

Together, we can lead this revolution where its supposed to go.

/rant

Jesus someone needs to take my computer away.
Nov 2 2012 12:15AM
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FerrisBueller
Posts: 8280 - Karma: 5,173
my sig is relevant
Nov 2 2012 12:15AM
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