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Quiver Killers

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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
I am probably going to be picking up some quiver killers soon, and I just wanted to know what their capabilities are. Currently I have ON3P Caylors mounted with Barons although they have once been mounted with Axial2s. I want to be able to put the barons on my new Wrenegades so I can have both a directional and a bi-directional touring set up. What I want to do is redrill my Caylors with Barons through the same holes, I have spoked to my local shop and they said they would do it but can't garuntee it won't pull out. So I wanted to hear from someone with personal experience how likely is a pull out? Because I don't wan't to be down a pair of skis half way through the season.

Thanks for reading and as per usual +k will be given for help,comments etc.
Sep 12 2012 4:34PM
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MacMahoooon
Posts: 9009 - Karma: 3,305
I have been using Quiver Killers in all my skis for the past 2 years and have had no issues. I've seen no indication of the inserts coming lose in the ski, nor do I notice screws vibrating lose in the inserts. I love that I can do a binding swap in the parking lot in under 10min when conditions change.

Takes a bit of practice to install the inserts, so make sure whatever shop is doing the job has a tech who is comfortable with them. I've probably done around 250 or so of them myself so far.
Sep 12 2012 4:43PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
^ Thanks for your help +k ... so i'm good to re-drill existing holes?
Sep 12 2012 4:49PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
That's the best way to do it anyway. Even on a new ski, drill normal holes first, check everything is good, then redrill for inserts.

Buy www.bindingfreedom.com inserts though.
Sep 12 2012 5:07PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
Why binding freedom instead? I'm curious what the difference is, if any.

I was likely going to go with Quiver Killers on my Dynafit setup so they can be moved between Caylors and Jeffreys.
Sep 12 2012 11:59PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
I know where to get quiver killers in the UK, but does anyone know who in the UK stocks binding freedom inserts?
Sep 13 2012 1:51AM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
Oh an +k to all of the above
Sep 13 2012 2:22AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
The guy who owns Binding Freedom came up with the concept and developed the product. And their current product is better made anyway. They ship internationally, just email him.
Sep 13 2012 2:50AM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
will do thanks for all the help
Sep 13 2012 6:30AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
i'm gonna buy some bindingfreedom inserts, from what i heard they are the original ones, they use rolled threads which are superior and they have a little slot for threading in the inserts with a flat screw driver while on QK inserts you need a tool or the double nut+bolt trick ...
and they're also cheaper....

just waiting on a reply from them cause i'm going to use them on my jesters but they don't have a bolt pack for them so hopefully they can make me a set/pack ....

also, a question to people who have used them and installed them themselves (QK or bindingfreedom) how difficult is it to install ?
i've mounted my own bindings twice, so in comparison this is going to be easy right ?
any points i need to watch out for ?
Sep 13 2012 8:06AM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
The guy I have been referring to on Quiver Killers told me very clearly to use a drill press. If you fuck up on the angle (aka it's not perfect), then the binding screws will not seat into the inserts well, if at all. The potential for stripping the threads (and consequently making you SOL) is high at that point.

So use a drill press!!!
Sep 13 2012 2:54PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7098 - Karma: 17,031

If your only using 1 set of bindings there is not actually any need to get them.

A couple of seasons ago I just had 1 set of bindings for my 3 pairs of skis. Its easy to just swap the bindings over and so long as you have any tech skill the holes will b fine. I have never suffered any form of pull out on the 3 pairs and Im still using 2 of the pairs to this day.

So overall they could be good option but if your only using one set of bindings you dont need them.

Sep 13 2012 3:09PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
check! i have one so should be ok then ?
Sep 13 2012 3:19PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
I believe so. He said the QK tool (or whatever BF uses) just fits right in the head on the press. Just make sure the ski is perpendicular.

Let me know how it goes! I have to do it for Dynafits pending a TGR forum purchase of them.
Sep 14 2012 7:31AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
A drill press or a drill guide (which Binding Freedom also sell) would be ideal, but check out the old installation video on Binding Freedom's website (where he's mounting inserts for silver swap plates). He does it all freehand and doesn't worry too much about lining stuff up.

I've seen some pretty nasty Quiver Killer jobs done locally, including a total fuckup on my roommate's aunt's skis, so I'd do them myself if I were you. I've never installed them, but would look to get the drill guide if possible, it's about $20. Getting a shop to mount (or at least drill) your skis with a jig initially would be a good idea if you've never mounted skis yourself.

Sep 14 2012 10:18AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
yeah, i'll be using a drill press, only thing i'm worried about is that on my first freehand mount, that i now want to drill out for inserts, i missdrilled a hole by a milimeter and the screw did go in but it's a little bit crooked, now with a screw it was no problem but do you guys think that if i drill out the hole that it will work ? since you can screw in a under a little angle, but not a bolt, those things go in straight and nothing else :/

my plan was to just drill it out as done in the guide, then epoxy the inserts and let them dry with the binding installed so one insert will torque and set a little bit sideways but will still fit ....

or should i somehow try to drill the hole out to the side ? which is probably going to be a pain in the ass ....
Sep 14 2012 10:29AM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
Jvd if you do get some binding freedom tools and your wanting to save a bit, I'd pay you to borrow them?
Sep 14 2012 10:45AM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
If I go for QKs I'd probably buy from here:


and I spoke to the guys at FreezeProShop and they said they've installed them in the past and are set up to install them. So I doubt I'll get a lot of tools because I'll probably get my skis mounted by them, and I've got a no.2 pozi driver lying around at home.

Hopefully combined with Qk or bindingfreedoms, which ever way I go, I'll have a sick charging set up Wrenegades w/STH16 and Barons
Sep 14 2012 12:50PM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
oh, wasn't aware freeze was able to install them, do they have the tools? that could be a lot easier than buying them all myself.
Sep 14 2012 12:59PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
Yeh I called them up about a month ago and went and saw them too. They said they were prepared to mount QKs/binding freedom
Sep 14 2012 1:52PM
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MacMahoooon
Posts: 9009 - Karma: 3,305
For installing, I highly suggest trying to install a few inserts in an old pair of skis or even just a piece of wood to get the hang of it. Your first ones will be a bit of a pain, but once you'll done a few they get easier.

Drill press is key for drilling things straight as others have said. Start out drilling normal holes with a jig, template or freehand, make sure everything is lined up, then step up to using the larger bit. The press also speeds things up I find.

Also make sure to tap the holes slightly, and use a tap guide so its perfectly vertical. I personally only tap the top 1/2 to 2/3 of the hole which really helps to make sure the insert goes in straight but leaving the bottom half really helps it grip well.

Make sure to use a flexible or marine type epoxy so the bond doesn't crack over time.

I find that doing a pair of skis brand new out of the plastic, with a template but not jig, takes me about 45min to an hour. Though I am super meticulous and precise doing it so I take some extra time there.
Sep 15 2012 12:05PM
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Urban.
Posts: 655 - Karma: 261
LINE BLEND IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY!!!!!!!
Sep 15 2012 11:03PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
thanks facebook, it's all clear now !

i don't know what we would do without your valuable input!
Sep 16 2012 4:43AM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
Invaluable, definate +k to you sir ... but seriously thank you everyone who commented for your help
Sep 16 2012 7:27AM
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Swan0023
Posts: 21 - Karma: 8
Anyone use these to be able to change from recommended mounting position to center mount on a single ski? Or would that be detrimental to the skis performance? I was thinking it would be nice to have that ability to change based on whether you're gonna be in the park or the rest of the mountain if you've only got one setup.
Nov 9 2012 11:44AM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
Do you mean using the same binders on the ski but in 2 different mount positions?

That should work just fine as long as the holes are sufficiently far apart.
Nov 10 2012 2:39PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
I was going to do this before I got a deal Schizos, so I worked it out again quickly for you:

If you use a Jester you can make it work with just 6 inserts per toe and 8 per heel because the toe pattern is a rectangle. So 3cm difference (eg. centre and -3, -1 and -4, etc). Or go 8 per toe if you're OK with 5-6cm difference.

With Salomon, Rossi or Look you'd need to go for about 5cm difference between the mount.

Tyrolia: 6 per toe, 55mm difference in positions.

But... consider Schizos. They get a lot of very unfounded criticism online and I was totally dubious of them when I first saw them, but mine have been fine everywhere. Mount them "too small" if you don't need the full 6cm range and the rails are positioned a bit stronger.
Nov 10 2012 3:38PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
That's a good idea. Schizos are a good idea, but I have seen 2 pairs blow up so I have a couple doubts. Lots of people have great experiences with them for sure (like you). I'm just a Rossi guy in the end.

Do you think one could get away with less than 5 cm though?

I forgot the hole patterns off the top of my head, but my rock skis are definitely mounted really close to existing holes (they're on mount #4) and they've been fine.
Nov 10 2012 7:30PM
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Swan0023
Posts: 21 - Karma: 8
Thanks, that's good info. I've got Salomon STH 14's and would be looking at dead center and -6 so that should be a definite possibility then. The QK site doesn't list any dealers in my area so I'll have to look into that further before I do anything...
Nov 12 2012 7:00PM
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