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Attention ski techs and Ski salesman!! Need some binding Answers. Please help.

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50Kal
Posts: 2826 - Karma: 5,367
So like the title says looking for serious answers about some bindings. If you have no actual information to give, please keep your personal preferences to yourself.

Im 5'9'' 160-175lb expert skier. Skiing in CO. I have a pair of ON3P BG 186 on order and looking to get brand new bindings to go with them.
Im looking for a High din binding(14+). Looking to get at least 4 seasons out of it. Wiling to pay extra $ for it. Im looking for a binding thats Reliable and durable. I dont give a shit about looks or matching. If it was the best binding in the world and painted hot pink I would not care one damn bit rocking it.

Bindings I'm Considering:
FKS140
FKS 180
Salomon STH 16
Salomon STH Driver 14
Tyrolia Peak 15
Tyrolia peak 13
Rossi Axial2 140

Bindings I'd consider if people have facts to back the binding up:
Marker Jester pro (never liked marker. But I have heard they made some improvements in recent years)

What I wanna know:
I know alot of gear. The information I wanna know is what bindings do you guys (Ski techs and Ski salesman) see being returned or replaced because of poor construction? What bindings are you guys constantly needing to make adjustments or replacing pieces? What bindings need the least amount of maintenance? This is the type of information I am looking for. School my stupid ass with facts. Please.

If anyone else has recommendations of bindings I didn't say, post please with some actual info.

As all ways NSrs thanks for the help and +K to those decent posts. Please try to keep personal opinions out. Please.







Aug 24 2012 5:28PM
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Spiri7o
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 1,100
Well what I can say if it helps that I just recently bought bindings and when I was in the market and talking to the owner at a local ski shop is that he has Fks's on all of his skis and that they are the most durable/ and best binding he has ever used. Rossignol has patented the technology on that binding so no one else can replicate it (Words of the ski shop guy). I now bought the Fks 14s but you might want to go with the 18s since you said you are looking for a 14+ din
Aug 24 2012 5:38PM
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TheWakes.
Posts: 685 - Karma: 235
Salomon sth 16 steel. sounds like a gunshot when u step in. they are heavier than other salomon bindings, but they are burly as hell.
Aug 24 2012 6:19PM
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50Kal
Posts: 2826 - Karma: 5,367
Bump. looking for more information guys.
Aug 24 2012 11:48PM
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SlurrP
Posts: 172 - Karma: 26
4FRNT Thunderbolt 18 (same base as the Tyrolia Peak series) is an all metal 18 DIN. These things are strong. They have the wings on the toe piece to help with lateral release, which is supposed to save your knee from wear and tear. easy to step into and to adjust, which i appreciate.

FKS/Look are nice but are a bitch to get into. STH is a great binder. at a certain point you just have to pull the trigger on something. people have great experiences with a lot of these but then there are always a few who don't.
Aug 25 2012 2:14AM
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NoSkillsCrew
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 2,058
So here is my two cents as a tech. Since you are going BG I am guessing this is your powder ski. So you want a binding that is gonna be rugged as shit and easy to step into in the deep stuff. It is a trade off that when you have an all metal binding its gonna weigh quite a bit but the trade off is the sturdiness.

Because of the powder thing I would tell you to not go with the FKS series. It is a great park binding but really difficult to step into when you have a good deal of snow on the bottom of the boot. The same goes with marker bindings. I love my griffs but not on a powder day.

Also a notice. Every binding ever has parts that break. If you ski super aggressively expect to go through a few pairs of breaks in those four years. All metal bindings also have a higher rate of core pull out due to the fact that they are so rigid. When I say higher rate the rate is still low but there is more of a chance of pullout.

At your height weight a 16 din binding would be perfect. You would be right in the middle of the scale din wise.

My short list:

Atomic FFG 16
Salomon STH 16 Steel
Whatever Tyrolia 18 din all metal thing is out there. I'm not the biggest fan cause of the rubber spinning AFD but plenty of the shop boys love the thing.


Also the Jester schizo pro ( which is mostly metal ) is a solid binding. In my experience I have only seen one or two broken pairs. Which compared to many other brands is a small number.

hope that helps.
Aug 25 2012 2:48AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Old Salomons break least, end of story. 916, 997, 957, or even some 14 DIN S900.
Aug 25 2012 8:43AM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
was gonna suggest this.
Aug 25 2012 9:43AM
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sports*creel
Posts: 400 - Karma: 389
We sell Salomon, Marker, and Look (pivot only). Most of the breakage or problems we see is in brakes. I can give highest ratings to the Salomon STH 16 steel (best), STH 16, and the Atomic FFG 16. The new Marker Jester Pro looks promising, but have not been able to see what those changes made are going to equate too in terms of long term durability. I have to guess it too would be good. We don't sell the Tyrolia Peak 15 or 18, but I have seen and heard great things about them as well. I agree with the statement above on avoiding a turntable for a fat ski used in deep snow constantly, they are harder to step into and the narrower screw hole pattern will be more likely to pull out.
Aug 25 2012 11:19AM
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Gmart
Posts: 1634 - Karma: 273
Sth16, as a salesmen I had the option of choosing which binding I wanted to ride. I'm 165 and 6'4". I chose the Sth12. I probably won't need anything higher personally, I have em on my blends. There money, as stated above the heel is bombproof, and so it the driver toe, you really can't go wrong. Lemme put it like this, they worked for Seth for yearss hahaha, I'm sure you'll be justtt fine! Only complaint I had about em was the AFD fell off, but I just returned the toe to salmon and they got me a new one.
Aug 26 2012 1:39PM
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phreshpow
Posts: 834 - Karma: 133
I was a ski tech and still am when I go home on break from school. I have STH 16's, FKS 140s and Jesters on my various pairs of skis. I am 6'5 215 lbs and know how to ski.

Short story: Jesters are my favorite

Long story:
The main reason I like Jesters the best is I prefer their release to all the other companies, although that is really a personal preference and many people love the Sallys and FKS. They are awesome for carrying/hiking because the toe piece is flat in front and doesn't stab the shit out of your shoulder. I never have to maintain or adjust them, just set my DIN when I mount them and never touch them again. They are often super grimy from being on top of the car on the way home and I don't ever clean them or worry about it.
Disclaimer: I will admit that I have broken one (sheared a toe piece in half), but I was on my 130 underfoot pow boards and ate shit messing around in the park and it is pretty much the only pair I have seen break. The marker rep was genuinely surprised and said he had never seen it before and they replaced them for no charge (although working at a shop always helps those kids of things).

Other things to know:
Do not get an axial series unless it is the 18 DIN with the burly ass toe piece and even then the dildo heel is pretty fucking shitty...I have the 12 DIN one's explode before.

I am not sure if the Jester Pros are more durable or not as not many people really buy them...

One thing to know about the Jester Pro and pretty much all 18 DIN FKS (there are some old ones that this doesn't apply to): They do not have an upward release which I find pretty sketchy because I prefer to not tear my ACL, but people who hate releasing ever love that about them, again kind of a preference thing.

I have skied a pair of 12 DIN Tyrolias before and hated them, but I don't know about the higher DIN all metal ones.
Aug 26 2012 2:01PM
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ARMADAR7
Posts: 401 - Karma: 36
Bump for quality thread
Aug 26 2012 3:13PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
You'll never tear a knee ligament because of a lack of vertical release. Your knee bends in line with the binding. If you have really strong legs you could break your lower leg I guess. Most falls have enough lateral force to release sideways regardless.
Aug 26 2012 3:37PM
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NoSkillsCrew
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 2,058
Ok.

When it comes to these bindings:

axial 12
px 12
griffon 12
ffg / sth 12

The skiers weight and binding breakage are related. Anybody pushing 175+ is going to do way more torque damage then someone who weighs 160 or less. When I see binding breakage at the shop outside of normal wear and tear it is usually related to a larger skier being on a plastic binding. I am 150 lbs and have ridden all of these bindings at different times for an average of 100-120 day seasons and have had PX-12's on my park skis for a couple of years without breakage.

Here is how I usually go about things when pushing bindings on people

Professionals and amateur comp skiers (18 din)
160 - 180 and above LBS - Intermediate to expert park rider (14-16 din metal bindings)
120 - 160 LBS - advanced to expert park rider (14 din metal)
120 - 160 LBS - beginner to advanced park rider (12 - 14 din plastic )
120 - 160 LBS - beginner park or relaxed park riders (12 din plastic)

below that you get kids shit.

I would be curious to hear what standards other tech's and shop dudes use?
Aug 26 2012 3:44PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868

I have the new FKS180 and I can absolutely say they have a vertical toe release. 2 ways to see this... either crank the forward pressure way up and slam a boot into it (you can see the toe rock forward to try to make room) or you can back the DIN way way out, like past the bottom of the scale, and then you can pull on the toe and make it roll forwards.

Plus I've ejected from one of them vertically. Saves you snapping your ski behind the heel if you have a REALLY heavy backseat landing, I reckon.

Aug 26 2012 9:31PM
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phreshpow
Posts: 834 - Karma: 133
@boax - I wasn't leterally talking about tearing my ACL specifically (although it is easily done, if your ski stays on in a crash it can very easily catch an edge and then if your leg spins, your knee ligaments will be first to go) more of saying that I would rather have my ski come off a little easier than risk the above scenario

@noskills - I don't worry to much about all metal vs. plastic personally because I'm 215 and ride "plastic" bindings I guess, but the Jesters are pretty damn burly. For me a plastic binding can be just as good as a metal one, but the DIN numbers seem pretty close as a maximum for a binding I would recommend to those people and also probably how much they would be looking to spend as well

@razboon - as far as I know if they have a split in the toe they have upward release, if not they don't, but I may be wrong and I haven't seen the new ones


Aug 27 2012 1:22AM
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phreshpow
Posts: 834 - Karma: 133
literally...red squiggly line was hiding from me
Aug 27 2012 1:23AM
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DHogg
Posts: 3462 - Karma: 235
There is a reason that most high level bindings don't have vertical release. Advanced skiers don't really fall in the motion it is designed to protect against. I think the best option would be the STH14 driver, or head peak/mojo 15. Both are solid, and I dont think you really need a 15+ din binding. It's also nice To have easy brake swapping which is the thing I hate about fks. You can find the peak/mojo 15 for cheap, and they are durable, easy to adjust and overall bomber.
Aug 27 2012 3:43AM
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Session
Posts: 5318 - Karma: 21,369
I'm on STH14's and STH/FFG16's. I own 2 of each.

I feel that your give up very little in terms of performance. BTW. I'm 220.

I also have skied just fine on Rossi/look 12 din axials, and Marker Griffon's. I'm not a fan over the Marker heel's release characteristics.

Just get what you want or can find the best deal on. you shouldn't even worry about such a high DIN either. I usually max mine out at 10, and I'm a big dude. I never pre-release, but always come out just fine when it's needed.
Aug 27 2012 12:52PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
http://beta.backcountry.com/4frnt-skis-thunderbolt-ski-binding
Aug 27 2012 3:13PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868

Most of the split-toe designs don't have a pure vertical release. Some will allow your toe to kind of roll out but only once you've already released most of the way laterally.

As I understand it, the one-piece FKS toe is basically on a ball/socket mount, only the ball isn't round, it's kinda cammed/egg shaped, meaning the spring will push it back to centre naturally. The toe can move any direction in a 180 degree arc over the ski, and the force required on any given angle is a result of the shape of the surface the spring pushed on... so while you may need 10 DIN worth of force to eject laterally, you'll get much more retention vertically, while still coming out if things go horribly wrong.

Aug 27 2012 6:02PM
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50Kal
Posts: 2826 - Karma: 5,367
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who gave input. I think I gonna go with the STH 14 steel driver. At my weight and ability it should work out great on my new BG once I get them.

Once again thanks everyone!
Aug 31 2012 8:50PM
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Rhys.Peice
Posts: 485 - Karma: 40
there is no such thing as a STH driver 14 steel's. they is 16's
Sep 3 2012 2:15AM
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50Kal
Posts: 2826 - Karma: 5,367
Salomon STH 14 Driver. Sorry I mislabeled. The pretty looking blue one.

http://www.evo.com/alpine-ski-bindings/salomon-sth-14-driver-115mm-brakes.aspx.
Sep 3 2012 2:27AM
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steezypink21
Posts: 135 - Karma: 17
Go with the STH 16 Steels, older 916/920s, the STH 16s are a good solid binding, but the micro simultaneous toe wing screw devolps play within one season if you shred. The older all metal sallies, STH 16 STEELS have individual toe wing adjustments, which are much better. FKS/Pivot 18 is a bomber binding, but as said above, not fun to put back on in the deep stuff. Stay away from markers they will break within 4 years. A good deal on the cheap would be the 18 din metal look/rossi bindings such as the freeski 200..., same metal pivot toe as the FKS, plus an all metal heel dildo with replacable breaks.
Sep 6 2012 6:19PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7099 - Karma: 17,043

To Op. you will be fine with the STH 14 Driver its a great binding. I have not seen any problems on any STH driver binding. People somtimes claim they delvolp slop like the poster above but 9.5 times out of 10 is that the binding is not set up properly.

In over 10 years working with salomon I have only seen a couple of pairs break, and usally its through miss-usage, trying to use a AT boot with a driver toe for examle.

In my opion the STH is the best binding available currently.

Sep 6 2012 6:32PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
One of the reasons I use 916s is because I can adjust them to work with boots with AT soles.

The weak link to the Salomon design is the toe wings AFDs.  People have a habit of kicking them off if they're not careful.

One of the best things about Salomon bindings is their brakes.  One screw removes them, and the arms come off easily and are bent and replaced just as quickly.
Sep 6 2012 9:53PM
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SacZiplock
Posts: 2405 - Karma: 513
looks like i had really strong legs , my ankle broke instead of my knee... feeling lucky actualy
Sep 6 2012 10:50PM
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