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March, 2024

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Edwards: "We believe marriage is between a man and a woman."

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ESB
Posts: 9273 - Karma: 10,647
What a terrible excuse for a Democrat, and a pity that the Democratic party has to resort to ignorance of basic human rights in order to get a president elected. Or maybe I should say, shame on the American people for making a pro-gay marriage stand untenable.

Any thoughts on this? It really sickened me to hear Edwards say time and again these exact words: 'We believe marriage should be between a man and a woman.' Still, Dem leadership would be a lot more sympathetic to the needs of the GLBT community than the GOP, but I can't believe that we're still such a backwards people that a political candidate can't stand up for something he knows is right, for fear of not getting elected.

Wayne: 'I don't own a gun, let alone many guns that would necessitate the use of a rack. What am I going to do... with a gun rack?'
Oct 6 2004 1:30AM
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Utahpowderskier
Posts: 1336 - Karma: 14
nope.
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Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but in the end, it doesnt get you anywhere. Write that down.
Oct 8 2004 11:26PM
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LeZbo
Posts: 55 - Karma: 10
some of you are harsh. You do realize not everyone worships the same God as you. Maybe those people shouldn't be allowed to do that either eh? stop saying you're defending God, because the bible says a lot more stuff other than homosexuals are bad. Open your eyes, don't be so ignorant

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I Love Jenna Malone
Oct 8 2004 11:32PM
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Canadianskibum1
Posts: 368 - Karma: 10
To JD...as always I appreciate your well written posts on here.

On the subject of morality...I am unapologetic, I get my moral code from the Biblical principles that the founding fathers of the USA belived in. This is a tried and true code of ethics that everyone, whether they like it or not WANTS everyone ELSE to live by. Dont kill, don't steal, be respectful to your elders...arent we all pretty glad when people in society live by these principles?

Read the 10 commandments, and tell me ONE, that you think should be thrown out. You are right, many atrocities have been committed in the history of the USA, by people who should have known better. The Bible tells you to love your neighbor as yourself, to treat others the same way as you would like to be treated. If people had paid attention to that 200 years ago, slavery would not have been an option, dont ya think?

Just because people ignored parts of this moral code 200 years ago doesn't mean the whole thing should be chucked out the window! And this is precicely what I see many of the liberals in politics today trying to do.

Anyways...read the next thread that I start. Its another opinion piece, this one by a friend of mine, on the subject of marriage. Very through provoking.


WE TAKE THESE RISKS NOT TO ESCAPE LIFE, BUT SO THAT LIFE DOES NOT ESCAPE US
Oct 8 2004 11:34PM
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LeZbo
Posts: 55 - Karma: 10
you realize they used the bible to justify slavery. The bible and God should not even be an issue in whether gay marriage should be banned. Don't preach your shit to people who don't want to hear it. It is a matter of state, which should be separate from religion.

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I Love Jenna Malone
Oct 8 2004 11:38PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
marrige is an institution of religion. whats your point?















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside
Oct 8 2004 11:41PM
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Canadianskibum1
Posts: 368 - Karma: 10
Explain to me how the Bible was used to justify slavery? I have read it through, and have NEVER found ANYTHING but respect for others as its central theme. Have you read it?

But in my posts I am NOT bashing gay people, I am simply stating that I belive gay marriage will be bad for society. Keep in mind there are many gay people who DO NOT WANT to get married.


WE TAKE THESE RISKS NOT TO ESCAPE LIFE, BUT SO THAT LIFE DOES NOT ESCAPE US
Oct 8 2004 11:42PM
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LeZbo
Posts: 55 - Karma: 10
hey I didn't say it even said it anywhere. All I said is they tried to use THE BIBLE TO JUSTIFY SLAVERY!! go back to the 1800's and ask them.You cannot deny the fact that the divorce rate is a bigger problem than gay marriage. Gays are actually fighting for it, while people are getting divorced and anulled right and left. now please explain to me how allowing gay marriage would hurt society at all

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I Love Jenna Malone
Oct 8 2004 11:47PM
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Skiertrav
Posts: 401 - Karma: 10
LeZbo, you telling people to stop preaching their shit is the same as you preaching your own brand of shit. Say your peace and don't get judgemental. Not every religious person is preaching to you by saying what they think.
Oct 8 2004 11:48PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
go back to the 1800's and ask them?

consider that one submitted to the committee.















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside
Oct 8 2004 11:49PM
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a.beezy
Posts: 4059 - Karma: 109
^good call. what is it that is going to be ruined by gay marriages, that fact that half of all marriages end in divorce? yea, we've got a lot to lose.







'well i bumed into kristi once and she was like 'yo me and pep are gonna get big gulps, you in? and i was like, Shit yea bitch, let me bring rory bushfeild and hibbert, cause were really tight' -Mikael420



*NWFT*

Useless Fact of the Moment:
'Taphephobia is the fear of being buried alive. ' weird, i sort of thought that was just human nature.
Oct 8 2004 11:51PM
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LeZbo
Posts: 55 - Karma: 10
if any of you personally knew someone who was gay, I think you would have a different opinion on this subject. Most people make fun of mentally ill people because they don't know any personally, but if your brother was retarded, I'm sure you wouldn't make fun of them. Same concept. I was raised to believe that God loves all his children, including gays. Get over it. People used to think blacks were actually animals, but look at it now. Find me some really good quotes against homosexuality in the bible please

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I Love Jenna Malone
Oct 8 2004 11:54PM
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a.beezy
Posts: 4059 - Karma: 109
^that was in reply to leZbo







'well i bumed into kristi once and she was like 'yo me and pep are gonna get big gulps, you in? and i was like, Shit yea bitch, let me bring rory bushfeild and hibbert, cause were really tight' -Mikael420



*NWFT*

Useless Fact of the Moment:
'Taphephobia is the fear of being buried alive. ' weird, i sort of thought that was just human nature.
Oct 8 2004 11:55PM
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Utahpowderskier
Posts: 1336 - Karma: 14
I have one of my close friends that is gay and that doesnt change my position on it. I dont make fun of him, but that doesnt make me think that it is right.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but in the end, it doesnt get you anywhere. Write that down.
Oct 8 2004 11:58PM
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LeZbo
Posts: 55 - Karma: 10
but he's close right? well if he found the one person he wanted to be with forever and you saw him heartbroken because he couldn't get married, you'd still be like....too bad man, but no. If he got married, give me a reason how it would affect you at all, because you'd have another friend who would get divorced
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whatever whatever I do what I want
Oct 9 2004 12:11AM
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bitchassphatz
Posts: 6171 - Karma: 107
candaianskibum, you are telling us that it is morally wrong for gays to be married, in my head that makes no sense considering my morals tell me it is morally wrong to not allow them. they have a right to be married to their lover, i have that right, why shouldn't they. that is what i am getting at.

and you didn't answer my question: what if someone told you that you could not marry the woman you wanted to?



**Proud member of the d-loc fanclub**

d-loc's wit & wisdom at its best.
Oct 9 2004 12:23AM
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Canadianskibum1
Posts: 368 - Karma: 10
Bichass..hence the problem..its 'your morals' that tell you one thing, which are gainst 'my morals'. Where do you get your moral code from? from MTV? from pop culture? from the media?

That is the whole problem, there are no moral standards anymore, people seem to be able to create their own moral codes to justify whatever they want.




WE TAKE THESE RISKS NOT TO ESCAPE LIFE, BUT SO THAT LIFE DOES NOT ESCAPE US
Oct 9 2004 12:34AM
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bitchassphatz
Posts: 6171 - Karma: 107
no i get my morals because i put myself in the other persons shoes, and i try to see how i would want to be treated in that situation.

explain what exactly is WRONG about it. other than it is against your morals.

it isn't against my morals because i see no harm being done.


and as you stated in a post back on the second page directed towards me. 'to tolerate goes both ways'. well buddy im not tolerating gay people, i accept them. acceptence is what you need to learn. to tolerate is to put up with, as mr. garison from south park said when they held a 'gay teacher toleration committee' for him.

you could learn a lot if you jsut open your eyes pal. quit ready a book and form your own personal opinions.

also if you could, i'd recommend putting yourself in their shoes. as i've asked you to answer time and time again: what if someone told you you couldn't marry the woman you loved?



**Proud member of the d-loc fanclub**

d-loc's wit & wisdom at its best.
Oct 9 2004 12:43AM
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bitchassphatz
Posts: 6171 - Karma: 107
ps: you're so against gay marriage that you're protesting the acceptance of it in another country?

i can't say i have ever run into anyone like you in america, thank god.



**Proud member of the d-loc fanclub**

d-loc's wit & wisdom at its best.
Oct 9 2004 12:46AM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
is this kid serious? is it imperitive that you're told your fucking 'moral code' from a book?

'from MTV? from pop culture?' you're kidding right?
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- Andrew Berwald
Oct 9 2004 12:47AM
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Utahpowderskier
Posts: 1336 - Karma: 14
Your right lezbo, it wouldnt directly affect me one way or the other. That is why I would still disagree with it. I just believe something else than you. I think that acceptance goes both ways.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but in the end, it doesnt get you anywhere. Write that down.
Oct 9 2004 12:50AM
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Canadianskibum1
Posts: 368 - Karma: 10
Well then explain to me, where you get your moral code from? If you reject the traditional religious one, where does it come from?


If you want an answer....lets say the woman I truly loved was my cousin. (watch jerry springer..ouch....it happens) Am I being disciminated against because I cannot marry her??

Suppose I truly loved TWO women, am I being discriminated against because I cannot marry both?

I love my sister, why can't I marry her?

See where this is going? Where will it end? What moral code will we use to govern ourselves in the future if the traditional one is thrown out?


WE TAKE THESE RISKS NOT TO ESCAPE LIFE, BUT SO THAT LIFE DOES NOT ESCAPE US
Oct 9 2004 1:00AM
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Utahpowderskier
Posts: 1336 - Karma: 14
very good point
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but in the end, it doesnt get you anywhere. Write that down.
Oct 9 2004 1:04AM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
if your such a follower of the bible, then you'd know that scripture quazi-supports polygamy. many people in there had more than one wife. that's where the anabaptist and mormon claim to it comes from.

gay marriage isn't a perversion of marriage. you keep trying to make it look that way. a loving relationship between two gay people is doing nothing wrong. and anyway, how is it going to affect you?
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- Andrew Berwald
Oct 9 2004 1:06AM
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Canadianskibum1
Posts: 368 - Karma: 10
B wald...people also killed each other in the Bible, but that DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT to kill. Come on now, the Bible is a book of history, because it reports on people that had more than one wife DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT AND THE BIBLE CLEARLY STATES THAT. Read it for yourself before you claim to know what it says.

But I fail to see how this relates to the argument about morality..I'd call that a red herring my friend.


WE TAKE THESE RISKS NOT TO ESCAPE LIFE, BUT SO THAT LIFE DOES NOT ESCAPE US
Oct 9 2004 1:13AM
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thewavebb
Posts: 1082 - Karma: 20
Are you against gays in general or gay marrage in specific. Personally i have gay friends and co-workers and i have respect for them. However, i think that it is a genetic flaw or behavioral disorder that i do not agree with. Being a follower of christ myself, i learn that it is not owr place to judge. Judge yourself first, when your perfect then just others.
Oct 9 2004 1:15AM
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Canadianskibum1
Posts: 368 - Karma: 10
What moral code will we use to govern ourselves in the future if the traditional one is thrown out?

You still didn't answer my question...just because the car you drive is old and has problems doesnt mean you take it to the junkyard before you have a new, better one, one that you are sure will work, right??? So why trash traditional morality if there is not a proven replacement?


WE TAKE THESE RISKS NOT TO ESCAPE LIFE, BUT SO THAT LIFE DOES NOT ESCAPE US
Oct 9 2004 1:16AM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
holy shit man. chill out.

notice i said that it 'quazi-supports' polygamy. i never said the bible tells you to have more than one wife. the bible can be interpreted in any way you want, and it'd be extremely closed-minded and ignorant to say otherwise.
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- Andrew Berwald
Oct 9 2004 1:18AM
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bitchassphatz
Posts: 6171 - Karma: 107
candianskibum. do i don't see where this is going.

i'm not talking about two gay brothers getting married. i am tlaking about tow individuals getting married, that jsut so happen to be the same sex. quit putting this bizze shit in the context because it isn't even part of the debate here. you obviously can't jsutify why it is wrong, other tha it is against the moral of your religious book.

and where do i get my morals from? well i wasn't raised by religion, that's for sure. so, i constructed morals on my view of society and what i viewed as right and wrong, not what some person 2,000 years ago did.

i'm sorry man, but you really need to wise up, you don't have an uncle or an aunt or someone who is related to you that is gay. if yes, do they have a significant other?

talking with you is like talking to a 2,000 year old brick wall. the ceiment that holds your morals together are ancient and out dated. if everyone followed your views we would eventually crumble down into a pile of bricks. sorry man, you really need to step into the 21st century.



**Proud member of the d-loc fanclub**

d-loc's wit & wisdom at its best.
Oct 9 2004 1:20AM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
and quit it with all the 'my friend' bullshit.

you sound like a conceited asshole.
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- Andrew Berwald
Oct 9 2004 1:22AM
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Crystal-needs-a-park
Posts: 9939 - Karma: 15
the bible also says you can survive in a whale with enough faith. remember, every single word in the bible is absolute truth with noooooooo room for interpretation.. god himself wrote it, using a sharpie, back in like ot 1. he had sharpies cause god has everything whenever he wants it. so gods already driving a steezy flying car and laughing at next years movies.
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You know the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear.

once back when i was a fetus i was aborted. it didn't hurt at all, but i was also high on life at the time. - thisangelicrage
its not rape....its surprise sex. you wake up and SURPRISE you had sex with me haha - huckster989
16 to a real ugly fat girl but whatever beauty is but a lightswitch away - wiener
Oct 9 2004 1:24AM
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Canadianskibum1
Posts: 368 - Karma: 10
Well bwald i find it perferrable to call you my friend rather than an asshole, we simply have differing points of view and you don't need to take it personally.

But this is the point of my argument, and you STILL have not really answered my question: where do you propose that society get its morals from if not from religion?





WE TAKE THESE RISKS NOT TO ESCAPE LIFE, BUT SO THAT LIFE DOES NOT ESCAPE US
Oct 9 2004 1:26AM
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Canadianskibum1
Posts: 368 - Karma: 10
lol crystal..ever read moby dick? there have been documented cases in history where people have been found inside the stomach of a blue whale. But that is really irrelevant to this convo, its about morality.


WE TAKE THESE RISKS NOT TO ESCAPE LIFE, BUT SO THAT LIFE DOES NOT ESCAPE US
Oct 9 2004 1:28AM
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Crystal-needs-a-park
Posts: 9939 - Karma: 15
wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait... moby dick was REAL? wooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhh.
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You know the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear.

once back when i was a fetus i was aborted. it didn't hurt at all, but i was also high on life at the time. - thisangelicrage
its not rape....its surprise sex. you wake up and SURPRISE you had sex with me haha - huckster989
16 to a real ugly fat girl but whatever beauty is but a lightswitch away - wiener
Oct 9 2004 1:30AM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
i figured bitchassphatz had already answered it.....

but anyway...

from life experience. putting yourself in other people's shoes helps in pretty much any situation. i've never really been much of a religious person. i didnt go at all in my early childhood. then i went like once a month maybe for a couple years. then slowly faded off. and in the proccess not getting really any of my morals learned from church.

the way i decide if something is right or wrong is to put myself in the place of the person that will be affected by my decision. if i think i'd dislike it in that position, i decide it's wrong, and i don't do it. like say stealing. i'm the owner of a store and kids steal shit from me. i lose money. not a good situation. therefore i look at stealing as a bad thing.
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- Andrew Berwald
Oct 9 2004 1:31AM
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Crystal-needs-a-park
Posts: 9939 - Karma: 15
think of morals like economics... like the boring professor economics, not finance, not greedy accounting scams stuff.... think checks and balances, doing what is best for yourself with regard to those around you, cournot-nash equilibrium of life... mathematically proven. but yeah, the bible is not infallible.
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You know the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear.

once back when i was a fetus i was aborted. it didn't hurt at all, but i was also high on life at the time. - thisangelicrage
its not rape....its surprise sex. you wake up and SURPRISE you had sex with me haha - huckster989
16 to a real ugly fat girl but whatever beauty is but a lightswitch away - wiener
Oct 9 2004 1:33AM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
yeah. that whole first paragraph that i wrote sucks. i hope you get the main idea out of it. by go and went i meant to church.
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- Andrew Berwald
Oct 9 2004 1:35AM
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Canadianskibum1
Posts: 368 - Karma: 10
Thats good, if everyone did that the world would be a better place. May I point out that I also am not a 'churchgoer', I am not a member of any orginized religion, I just belive that faith in God is essential.

The problem with your theory of morality is that it is dependent on what YOU think. Lets say you put yourself in the shoes of a rich guy who has 10 ferraris and say, 'well if I had 10 ferraris, i wouldnt care if soemone stole one.' So you jack it. But thats still stealing, and its still wrong. (poor example, but you get my drift.)

I think it is far better to have a UNIVERSAL moral code that ALL of society collectivly adheres to (admitedly, that is impossible), but in the Bible I find a solid moral code to base my life on.


WE TAKE THESE RISKS NOT TO ESCAPE LIFE, BUT SO THAT LIFE DOES NOT ESCAPE US
Oct 9 2004 1:41AM
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Crystal-needs-a-park
Posts: 9939 - Karma: 15
well i guess youre right, the world certainly would be a better place if we were all the same and we werent allowed to think... you fucking 1984 communist bastard.
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You know the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear.

once back when i was a fetus i was aborted. it didn't hurt at all, but i was also high on life at the time. - thisangelicrage
its not rape....its surprise sex. you wake up and SURPRISE you had sex with me haha - huckster989
16 to a real ugly fat girl but whatever beauty is but a lightswitch away - wiener
Oct 9 2004 1:45AM
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thewavebb
Posts: 1082 - Karma: 20
Communism is working together for a common goal with no differentating reward. The idea is good, but human nature is capitalistic.
Oct 9 2004 1:48AM
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SchweitzerSki
Posts: 4479 - Karma: 11
just because you don't go to church doesn't mean you are nonreligious though. I read my bible all the time and I have faith in God. Good enough. Don't make the mistake of thinking you are the judge, because you aren't, God is. He hates the sin, not the sinner, and homosexuality is part of a big lump of sins in the bible. And if you think marriage is all about procreation, then maybe we should ban sterile marriages too. Because people who can't have kids like gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry either, even though they probably share as much love as a gay couple would


did that make any sense?
Oct 9 2004 1:49AM
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Canadianskibum1
Posts: 368 - Karma: 10
Whoa, I wasnt suggesting communism....just that society needs to agree on what is right and wrong instead of everyone developing his own personal version of right and wrong. Because what may seem right to a serial killer is likely very wrong to someone else.


WE TAKE THESE RISKS NOT TO ESCAPE LIFE, BUT SO THAT LIFE DOES NOT ESCAPE US
Oct 9 2004 1:51AM
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thewavebb
Posts: 1082 - Karma: 20
however, to continue to endulge in the same sin and not repent is damning yourself
Oct 9 2004 1:51AM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
^put my response extremely well. harsh, yet funny. but well.

we can't have a universal code for people to follow. that's what makes life great. not having to follow anything for that matter.
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- Andrew Berwald
Oct 9 2004 1:52AM
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thewavebb
Posts: 1082 - Karma: 20
i was just correcting his use of communism.
Oct 9 2004 1:52AM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
yeah. that was supposed to be pointing to crystal.
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- Andrew Berwald
Oct 9 2004 1:53AM
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Crystal-needs-a-park
Posts: 9939 - Karma: 15
ive use the phrase before but it hasnt caught on so none of you seem to know what it means but: 'staring at the finger'
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You know the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear.

once back when i was a fetus i was aborted. it didn't hurt at all, but i was also high on life at the time. - thisangelicrage
its not rape....its surprise sex. you wake up and SURPRISE you had sex with me haha - huckster989
16 to a real ugly fat girl but whatever beauty is but a lightswitch away - wiener
Oct 9 2004 1:55AM
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trevorwoulddoit
Posts: 6153 - Karma: 199
Even if society had a universal moral code whatever the serial killer thought was right would still be wrong. No matter what the moral norm is.

The main impediment preventing society from developing a moral code is religon.



But, you can always fall back on your degree in... Communications! Oh, dear Lord!
I know! Is phony major. Lubchenko learn nothing. Nothing!

Our greatest glory consists not in never falling. But in rising every time we fall.

Breathe and Stop

Ninja Steeze 05
Oct 9 2004 1:55AM
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thewavebb
Posts: 1082 - Karma: 20
i can only infer what that means
Oct 9 2004 1:56AM
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thewavebb
Posts: 1082 - Karma: 20
staring at the finger that is
Oct 9 2004 1:56AM
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trevorwoulddoit
Posts: 6153 - Karma: 199
^Make that a, Universal moral code.



But, you can always fall back on your degree in... Communications! Oh, dear Lord!
I know! Is phony major. Lubchenko learn nothing. Nothing!

Our greatest glory consists not in never falling. But in rising every time we fall.

Breathe and Stop

Ninja Steeze 05
Oct 9 2004 1:57AM
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