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Line Elizabeth VS New Sir Francis Bacon + Remounting Question

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Twig
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 57,048
Alright heres the deal. Turns out, I way prefer fat park skis. Tried to switch down to normal ones but don't really like it overall. Has some obvious advantages but not really my thing.

Question 1: I have a pair of Lizzies, drilled once for Jesters. I want to put my Jesters back on them, can I use the same holes without Helicoiling? The skis are pretty fucked so I don't plan to use them all that long, just until I can get a replacement pair of either SFBs or more Lizzies.

Questions 2: 2012 Sir Francis Bacon vs Elizabeths. I have never found a ski I like as much as the Elizabeth. That said there has never been a ski comparably similar. From the specs the Sir Francis Bacon seems like it might be very similar in a 178 (they measure short), with the added versatility of rocker.
1) I will centre mount. They are for park + a bit of jibbing around. I loved it on my elizabeths, 90% sure it will be fine on Bacons too, but has anyone done it?
2) I don't spin all that much, love to butter and press and do slow spins more than anything else so I don't need a narrow ski. Is the Bacon lighter than the Lizzy? More buttery thanks to rocker?
3) I ski alot of rails so the edges will be dull. Will the all mountain performance suffer much more from this on the SFB because of the rocker?

Basically, its rockered vs flat. The price will be similar for me since I have to stockpile Lizzies from the US if i want to keep going with them but Bacons I can get here in Europe on discount. Which ski do you think will be better. This question essentially goes out to the small hardcore group of Elizabeth users who never thought they'd find a replacement. Is the Bacon a replacement, is it better? Someone with experience of both would be great.

+K for helpful answers to both questions!

Happy New Year!

Jan 1 2012 9:08AM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Well I'll throw in my two cents for what it's worth. I as well loved the Lizzie's. I currently have the new bacons and the opus. As far as the new bacons go, they are really not that much like the Lizzie's other than they're a wide ski that can rip park. Even though they're completely different though, they do rip park and I'd even say they're better than the Lizzie's. They turn on a dime and feel like a 90 waisted ski. They're stiffer than the Lizzie's but still buttery and I actually think its a plus as they feel way more stable on bigger landings and rippin through chop. Super sick ski. I had initially bought the 178s and my bud bought the 184s. We ended up swapping because I got so used to my 185 opus and he's shorter than me and wanted the 178 for easier spinning. I mounted at midsole but if I were to remount I would do -1.5 from dead center. Midsole is at -2.5 and I think just a touch more forward would be perfect. Personally I wouldn't go with a true dead center just based on the sidecut. Now for the kicker. The opus. So sick. I think the opus in a 178 would be damn close to that Lizzie feel. It's got what feels like the same turning radius and they're super stable on grinds and landings. I try not to put em down rails because they're kinda my good ski and I don't wanna wreck the bases but they're fully capable. Either way both skis are super sick and IMO better than the Lizzie's. Good luck either way though.
Jan 1 2012 10:11AM
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Goku
Posts: 8119 - Karma: 4,221
Keep your Lizzies. Yes you can use the same holes, just add a tiny bit of wood glue to them when remounting to waterproof them.
Jan 1 2012 12:55PM
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Twig
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 57,048
I definitely will keep my Lizzies now and mount them for a bit, its good to know i can use the same holes, if they pull out i suppose then i can helicoil.
But my Lizzies are fucked, they wont last long anyway (maybe a month more) so I will replace them with something. I'm thinking just stock up on Lizzies for the next 2 seasons (expensive since they are from the states) or go for Bacons/Opus for an every day ski/park ski from now on, can get them locally on a deal but not sure what to do.

P.s thanks mountain viper, food for thought. I would mount whichever ski at centre though. Primary use would be park and spinning
Jan 1 2012 1:29PM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
hey man, been riding multiple pairs of lizzies since 07'. my current pair are completely trashed and dead as should any ski after 300+ days. i'm planning on buying a pair of new bacons in less than a month once I have some money saved up. my gf just got a pair in 172. they're surprisingly much stiffer than I thought. they're by no means a stiff ski, but definitely stiffer than lizzies.

here's my issue. I ski in minnesota on a 200' hill. its a big change from living in CO but that doesn't mean I'm going to go to a 90mm ski. still want the fat playful ski. idc if bacons seem overkill, its just how I ride. now that I hear what the above guy said about the opus', am I crazy for maybe considering those? since they may be more like a lizzie? i'll be taking a couple trips out west every year, but im afraid something like an opus is going to blow in any sort of ice or be a little too much for lapping rails for an hour and a half.
Jan 1 2012 2:28PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
No problem man....but yeah the opus is seriously super sick if you like fat skis. I cannot say enough about em. You like fat skis for park and those things just rip. you can spin on boxes so easy it should be criminal. Haha. Good luck though.
Jan 1 2012 2:29PM
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Twig
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 57,048
I sorta feel like 110mm is about the sweetspot for me in terms of width. Opus just seems like it would be too much in the park even in a 178.

The fact that the Bacon is stiffer kinda scares me because i like the fact that I could just flex through Lizzies, but the rocker appeals so I don't know. Is the Opus stiffer than the Bacon?
Line quotes recommended on the Bacons (and Opus') as -2cm (same as Lizzies) and since the taper is minimal, i'm pretty sure centre would feel good even on groomed, but I'd be interested to hear from someone who has tried?
Jan 1 2012 5:38PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Yeah line does say the bacons and opus are -2. The opus measures that exactly but I've measured both the 178 bacons and the 184 and both measure -2.5 to midsole so I dunno. As far as flex goes I'd have to say that the bacons are def not the noodles the Lizzie's were but honestly they're totally different and it's tough to compare. The new bacons are fairly soft but still turn like a champ due to the camber underfoot. Now the opus is softer than the bacons but not by much. What I can tell you is that IMO the biggest difference is torsional flex. They don't follow every little imperfection in the run the way the Lizzie's did and obviously won't have that forgiveness the Lizzie had either. Guess the best analogy would be if you took the Lizzie and put it on steroids you would have the new bacons. Not in a bad way. Just more capable of bigger and faster ya know, but with that same surfy feel. Both the bacons and the opus are like oxymorons. Capable of charging hard but soft enough to jib around on. Hopefully someone else jumps on to give ya a second opinion. Cheers
Jan 1 2012 9:55PM
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Twig
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 57,048
I'm not sure, maybe it was the 'forgiveness' that I liked in a park ski.
I'm 5'8-9 and around 140lbs if that helps.
Lizzies vs 178 Bacons vs 178 Opus now seems to be the options.
70% park (80% jibbing) and 30% all mountain jibbing.
Thanks for your help so far mountain viper. If you were me which would you pick?

Any other opinions on Lizzies vs Bacons etc? Would be good to have a second opinion. Thanks guys.
Jan 2 2012 6:23AM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Personally I'd say bacons. The opus are just a touch too wide to get really technical with grabs but if your not super concerned with that then its an option. See I loved my Lizzie's way back when but I doubt I'd be as in love with em now. The thing I dig about the new bacons is that they can also rip steep groomers like a friggin gs ski. They rail high speed turns with zero chatter whereas with the Lizzie's at speed they were flapping like crazy. Controllable but chattery. I'd say if you love the Lizzie's get another pair. If you want something more versitile go bacons. And if you want something real fat and surfy go opus.
Jan 2 2012 10:35AM
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Tall_Paul
Posts: 958 - Karma: 57
I have the bacons from this year and love them. I ride about 50% park and 50% all mountain so i mounted them at recommended and it's basically center. It even looks center. Idk much about the lizzies but I can tell you that you'll have no trouble buttering around on the bacons. They are also very stable on rails which I love. For size reference I'm 6"2 and 160. I would go bacons if I was in your situation
Jan 2 2012 11:35AM
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.ste
Posts: 1068 - Karma: 238
Maybe you should consider the blends. they have some rocker like the bacons, and are also relatively soft. They also seem to perform really well in the park.
Jan 2 2012 4:56PM
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Twig
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 57,048
blends aren't really an option because
a) they aren't as fat as i'd like and
b) the recommended mounting point is something like -7.5cm or something so I can't imagine they ski well centre mounted.
Thanks for the help so far guys, erring towards 178 Bacons at the moment because they will be the lightest and most versatile, concerned that at 5'8-9 and 135-140 they'll be a bit stiffer than I like though..
Jan 2 2012 6:35PM
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Twig
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 57,048
i assume you ride 184 Bacons? Thought it was worth checking though!
Jan 3 2012 4:35AM
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Twig
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 57,048
Bump! I snapped the tip of one of my Lizzies today, I feel like a friend just died.

Replacement is now urgent! Probably going for Bacons but I'm worried i won't be able to butter them like i could Lizzies at my weight. Is considering the 172 (168/9) insane at 5'9 135-40?
By price:
Lizzies will cost me around $550 once I import
Bacons/Opus a good bit less than that.
172/178 Bacon or 178 Opus??




Jan 6 2012 3:51PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Dude that sucks bout the lizzies. But I'd say bacs. They're so so sick.
Jan 6 2012 4:47PM
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iffe
Posts: 984 - Karma: 120
I've tried tons of different skis and the one that is the most similar to Lizzies is last year's (10/11) Bacon in 172 cm.
Jan 6 2012 5:29PM
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Goku
Posts: 8119 - Karma: 4,221
I love my Bacons. most fun ski i've ever ridden
Jan 6 2012 5:32PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
^this for sure but this years bacs are way sicker. Sooo much easier to turn and throw around.
Jan 6 2012 5:48PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14477 - Karma: 10,515
I haven't skied the bacon's or the opuses, but the blends are by far the closest ski to my lizzies. Super buttery, and they ski perfectly fine at center.
Jan 6 2012 9:09PM
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_Mac_n_Steez_
Posts: 259 - Karma: -6
my friend who is an all park rider has the blends and he loves them supper buttery with rocker he has them center and i highly dbout that they are -7 reccomended i will ask him next time i see him
Jan 6 2012 11:24PM
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Twig
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 57,048
Recommended is -7.8cm according to the Line website.
I can believe they ski fine at true though since several people on here do it. I will check them out in store. The 173 is the exact same length as the 178 Bacon from what I remember (no obvious reason but I'm fairly sure).
Jan 7 2012 4:18AM
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Twig
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 57,048
Rode my old EP Pros today so considering putting Opus back in the equation.
178 Bacon vs 178 Opus
Centre Mount (not up for debate, I've centred EPs and Lizzies and loved them).
70% park/all mountain jibbing 30% pow.
Jan 7 2012 3:11PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Don't center mount the opus. Measure riding surface vs tip and tail rocker and you'll see why. The -2 is actually a center mount. Anything more than +.5 of midsole would be a forward mount.
Jan 7 2012 3:14PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Now the bacs you could get away with center though but I def wouldn't do that on the opus.
Jan 7 2012 4:43PM
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