Official Ski Pressing/Shaping/Building/Constructing Thread

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Crazy Fool

Oh man, slaying! Looking really good out there. Totally forgot you guys are kind of in eachother's neighbourhood to. Really cool to see people linking up and riding.

Jan 21 2014 7:05PM

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No Life

for sure, it's always so fun shredding with NS homies and putting a face and a personality to these online personas.

Jan 21 2014 7:25PM

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ThatMNkid

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Pro

Can one make skis with a plywood core?

Jan 23 2014 6:04PM

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Crazy Fool

Yep. Although using store bought plywood would be a pretty tough challenge. It would need to be of high quality, and because each ply is usually alternating in species, I think there would be some issues when profiling it as a core to get the proper flex pattern. Line Afterbangs are essentially plywood cores though.

Jan 23 2014 7:17PM

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ThatMNkid

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Thanks! I just got a menu board from work (Jimmy Johns) and I was thinking about making some skis out of it. It is, obviously made out of plywood.

Jan 23 2014 10:00PM

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max...

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Insane

keep in mind that plywood is a general term. ninety-four is correct in saying that afterbang cores are essentially plywood in they have the characteristic horizontal lamination, but I wouldn't say that afterbang cores are nearly as low in quality as most plywoods. plywood varies greatly in quality and type of wood used.

for example,

I would never make a core out of plywood that looked like this:

but something more along these lines:

or even more interesting:

(in fact I am very tempted to try some bamboo plywood now that I look at this picture)

ultimately, make sure what plywood you have is worthwhile before you start investing in other materials.

Jan 24 2014 1:36AM

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FreezerKid

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the top one is chip board and the bottom is block board, the one in the middle is the only one that is actually plywood

Jan 24 2014 3:20AM

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Crazy Fool

Yeah this is the more correct statement. They're all from the manufactured woods family though so to someone unaware they could definitely get mixed up.

Jan 24 2014 8:04AM

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No Life

If you have a press you can't just buy veneers and make your own plywood. Paint on poly glue, stack em, and toss them in there. That way you have control over the material as well as the grain orientation.

Jan 24 2014 9:59AM

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max...

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Insane

yeah this is what I do and it works like a charm.

and sorry about the plywood confusion. I've heard the term applied to all types of manufactured woods I suppose, so I just wanted to make sure MNkid didn't make the same mistake that I apparently did.

Logan, quick question, did you ever talk to Mousseau about an NS skibuilders giveaway contest?

Jan 24 2014 12:10PM

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Lame

Comin' back in the post and talking about plywood style core these are my current skis:

173cm, 108-78-108, fully cambered (2mm, no early rise or other rocker amenities), the core is a 12mm thick maple in a skate like costruction, I've laminated myself the core, the topsheet is a thinner maple veneer, standard triax for the composites.

with this pair I've tried to build a skinnier park skis to see if there are any advantages, 15 days of use and I still don't know if there are any. Despite this kind of core is famous for the afterbang which are very soft skis mine are on the stiff side of the spectrum ( like a k2 sight more or less).

Durability: very good for now, the wood veneer top chips like hell, the only structural issue is a edge crack but with my "graceful style" on rails I think it's the norm.

PS. ninety four your skis look sick! incredibly clean style, I really like it.

Jan 24 2014 12:18PM

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Noticed now that the picture are incredibly small, i'll try to repost them:

sorry for the double post.

Jan 24 2014 12:30PM

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No Life

I haven't yet max, thanks for the reminder!

Jan 24 2014 3:18PM

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Crazy Fool

Just curious how you profiled the cores and how well a horizontal laminate planes?

Jan 24 2014 4:10PM

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Lame

I've used the standard horizontal planer method. The laminate planes very good, really a lot like a standard vertical core. The important thing is that the initial laminate should be glued incredibly well or it will start to separate in the glued zone in the planer.

Jan 25 2014 2:31AM

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AlexFromTarget

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Can someone post some photos of their planer crib setup please

Jan 29 2014 8:29PM

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Crazy Fool

Here ya go:

It's made to do one core at a time. Stiffened it with aluminium rails, although they're unnecessary with my new planer setup (that DW735 in the background, aweeee yissss). Basically its two 5/8th" MDF sheets stacked and screwed in the middle, then I use masonite shims in between the two to set my profile.

Because so many people don't have access to a planer though, and router bridges are slow and rough sometimes, I'm looking at using this guy I made:

It's just a crib flipped on it's side. Then you just use three clamps along the top edge, and run it through the table saw. Pull the core out, flip it over, and run the other half through. A little sketchy cutting that deep and one half at a time, but I think it will work well with smooth steady cutting. At the least I should be able to get cores rough sized with ease, then do one finishing pass with the planer.

Jan 29 2014 11:30PM

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AlexFromTarget

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Ive never really used a planer before but i could have access to one. How do u get the core to stay pressed in the crib while planing it?

Jan 30 2014 12:36AM

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Crazy Fool

The feed rollers that sit infront of and behind the planer head compress the core into the center of the crib.

Jan 30 2014 12:44AM

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razors-chaz

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Some of these planer/table saw set-ups look interesting... I'm so glad i had access to a cnc when making mine which i will get round to posting up about soon i promise. Next pair i make might even go for a 3D profile but definitely need to go for a slimmed down core next time, my first pair are pretty stiff and beefy.

Jan 30 2014 2:29PM

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Lame

With 3D you mean something like the 2014 afterbang? 'cause that would be incredibly difficult to get dialed in the press from what I know (you'll need a top casette or similar to uniform the pressure), but also incredibly interesting on a building point...

Jan 30 2014 3:54PM

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razors-chaz

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Nah not as pronounced as that more like something along the lines of the élan (and now faction's) wavy comes and its not so bad for me as I press by vacuum so have no top section to my mould and its pressed together by a bag which tightens down around whatever the ski shape.

Jan 31 2014 9:46AM

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last_tango

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Anybody know how fischer addicts/nightsticks are pressed with that steel reinforcement underfoot? I have an idea where you take steel underfoot but weld the edges directly to a thin steel plate underfoot to prevent edge pull out from ever happening. Edge cracks will still happen but I think edge pull out shouldn't happen as quickly. Would also do steel tips like dynastar trouble makers had and somehow welding the edge to the tips to prevent edge pull out there too.

If this has already been mentioned I tl;dr the thread.

Jan 31 2014 9:53AM

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WiscoSkiing

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Wannabe

So i haven't been up to date with this thread for a while but i see pictures everywhere of what i believe it people putting the core through a planer. I don't get how the planer tapers the core. Does it adjust while the wood is going through?

Jan 31 2014 10:57AM

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No Life

Negative, you build a sled to set the core on that is thicker at the tips and tails and narrower at the center. The planer then pushes the core down into the sled as it feeds, making the core thinner at the tips and tails and thicker at the center. This is done over the course of many passes, taking around 1 mm or so at a time, dependent upon the condition of your blades

Jan 31 2014 11:06AM

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WiscoSkiing

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Wannabe

i think i get it but could you post a picture? thanks

Feb 1 2014 12:02AM

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Crazy Fool

A few posts up, the one that SteveIrwin quoted, the first picture in there is of my planer sled. You can see how it's thickest on the ends of it, and skinny in the middle. The grip tape and rear rail hold the core in place to drive the sled and cores through together.

Feb 1 2014 12:30AM

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Lame

Well I think that the metal underfoot is more likely titanal put there for flex purposes since a welding inside the ski is very hard to get dialed (for thickness and resistance of the welding line) but I could be easily wrong since Fischer has one of the most advance r&d sector in the ski industry.
For the steel tips they're there for substituting the full wrap edge nothing more, but they make the tip heavier so they're more prone to delam on impact (faster smash).
I've tried to lace-up the edges tooth on my current skis but there are some issues with the plane of the base.

Feb 3 2014 1:33PM

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No Life

you laced them with tow like the guy on the ski builder's forum? how well did it work? do expand on that experience, i've been interested

Feb 3 2014 1:57PM

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More or less Logan, only done it underfoot. I've used some carbon fiber roving to lace the tooth, first problem that I've found is that, probably because I've used too much strings, the base had concavity issues, it was very difficult to grind and some spot were left without the pattern. As for performance goes it's still early to tell as the skis have only 15 days on them, although I can tell you that after getting an edge crack everything stayed in position even after more rail riding. If you want to try use a very thin string and do multiple passes as opposed to my attempt that involved the use of a single string made out of more thinner rovings. As far as the process goes you need to glue the edges on the previous section of the base, then lace up the underfoot part put some glue on the unstringed section. I'll definitely try to perfect this process on the next pairs, i'll also try to upload some photos of the base in the next day if I can (shitty exam period in university, no free time).
Hope it can help and sorry for the incredibly long message....

Feb 3 2014 4:58PM

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No Life

No need to apologize, I commend you for giving it a go. I would imagine that even a very very thin material would do the trick, what weight of roving were you using? I was thinking you could even literally, as you mentioned, used some strong upholstery thread or something

Feb 3 2014 11:01PM

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Crazy Fool

I had the chance to look at some of last years Salomon skis with diecut bases, and portions of the base were clear. On the suspects the edge armor was clearly visible and it was a super small diameter steel wire. Sounds great in theory but something that thin would probably be very ductile and I'd imagine it to have awful bond quality with such little surface area. Because of that I see it having very little benefit, and more of a hindrance when damage starts.

Something stiff like carbon tow does seem perfect, good bond, very stiff fibers so it's not as likely to stretch out as much. Fiberglass might work well to, maybe even kevlar/aramid fibers although they're one of the more flexible fibers going from what I understand.

In all honesty though I'm still pretty set on a lot of what I said here:

https://www.newschoolers.com/ns/forums/readthread/thread_id/756906/

The biggest concern still being an opportunity for the teeth opening their own holes bigger with time. I can't see them being an issue under pressing conditions as far as layup goes. Do an initial fast ramping high PSI shot to the bladder to set them, then back it off fairly fast to normal pressing PSI.

Feb 3 2014 11:15PM

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94 I see what your idea is and I far as I know there's at least one manufacturer of edges in Europe that produce a profile that is similar to yours in some ways. I should have got a catalog laying around somewhere, i'll try to find it and post it up. Since we are talking about edges have you ever seen the "railkiller" edge of some nitro snowboards? That's more classic solution to the problem but still interesting.

Feb 4 2014 2:47AM

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By the way Logan I've used 80grams carbon roving spliced in thinner strings.

Feb 4 2014 7:11AM

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Insane

have you ever seen those boards with the double edge? they put an edge in flush with the base aboute 1cm inside from the actual edge so that it spreads the impact over 4 edges instead of 2!

Feb 4 2014 5:44PM

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last_tango

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Atomic made a board like that but I don't know what model it was but it had a kill bill graphic. Not sure if it worked or not.

I don't know much about pressing skis other than ptex, edge, fiberglass, wood, more fiberglass, and top sheet but I think it would be a good selling point to make a ski resistant to edge pull out with a warranty covered for at least 30 days for no edge pull out even if you are hitting rails. How to even make that happen I have no idea.

Feb 4 2014 10:24PM

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Insane

update for me

my mold is done. Materials are here except for vds, binding inserts and epoxy(they weren't in stock at the time). photos and description coming soon.

stoked!

Feb 5 2014 12:32AM

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joe.aruba.50

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i think i've found the best way to view Sochi Olimpic online. http://sochix.com ,there is a lot of info, videos and other stuffs

Feb 9 2014 6:45PM

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Insane

Is edge grain or side grain up on ski cores

Feb 18 2014 2:46PM

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bakedpow

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Crazy Fool

logan you should definitely post up how your skis hold up through this winter. id love to see how they progress. what 94 did was pretty cool.

Feb 18 2014 6:54PM

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hot.pocket

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You want the end grain going up and down like in this picture, the next strip of wood would be glued to the "plain grain" side, thus both would be looking up and down.

Feb 18 2014 11:18PM

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Will do! So far the Culo Regs have handled the beating of urban (only 4 spots) out here in the Midwest. I'm definitely thrashing the alder sidewalls, but no delams as of yet. After this trip I'll post photos and any issues.

Feb 19 2014 9:59AM

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Steezy_Peazy

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Those are some awesome skis. How do you guys transfer a design from, say, photoshop to the ski? I assume you get it printer, but onto what? And how do you make a template for photoshop (or whatever program you use) to design the skis/ ski graphics? Keep making sick custom skis.

Feb 24 2014 6:32PM

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Crazy Fool

To get the shape I want made into a template (which will ultimately determine the ski's final shape) I get it printed at the high school drafting department I graduated from. Any place that offers some kind of printing service could do this for you though. I used to tile print my templates with pretty good results, it's just a lot of unnecessary work for what it costs to get a full size one printed.

From there I use a spray adhesive on the paper and work the printed shape from one end to the other to avoid distortion from wrinkles or air bubbles. Then I just cut it out on the bandsaw and sand it to it's final shape.

The best, most accurate, and most precise way to get a template made will be with a CNC machine though.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

A little update on everything, I've been hardly building skis at a rate I'd like to. In the two months I had to go to school for my job at the end of 2013 I had so much time off in a different city, so there was plenty of time to think about everything I do and how I do it.

So now I'm really just tackling all of these things. Ranging from new molds in the press, to new ways to cut base material, to better release compounds on my cassettes. It's really my entire process that's being re-engineered. In the end it should translate to really quick production times (gives me more time to drink and ski I guess? Ha...)

Feb 25 2014 12:30AM

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Steezy_Peazy

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Ridiculous

Thanks for the reply! Great information! How do you design the shape and top sheet on the computer? Do you have a photoshop template? Thanks

Feb 25 2014 11:30AM

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bakedpow

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Crazy Fool

Snocad is the easiest program. it can be difficult to download but you can design any ski you want. then print a full size shape of the ski.

Feb 25 2014 12:47PM

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Finally had some time for skiing and while doing a backflip in powder I've landed it forward get stuck with the tips and almost snapped the skis (which are the ones with the japanese flag of the previous posts). they are still skiable as I've used them last weekend in park without problems but one from full camber has become rockered in the tip, no delams although. I'll get some photos in the next days, still need to understand why the broke in that way...

For logan here it is the photo of the laced edges

Next time i'll get the lacing tighter and use a thinner roving for added resistance, but for now they're holding up well underfoot.

Hope they last me until this summer 'cause I'm starting to like the more stable flex.

Feb 28 2014 7:07AM

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Insane

skis= pair of skis?

Feb 28 2014 7:02PM

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