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WTF Libya (and was Bush right?)

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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
go fuck yourself Gaddafi.


an interesting discussion point that will result in pages of flaming, karma draining like no other, and just plain hatred.

was Bush RIGHT?


you install a western style democracy in Iraq and the region will follow suit?
Feb 22 2011 3:38PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,687
Yeah... We really shouldnt have much of Idaho exept maybe the very northern bit on the panhandle, since it's at least got some good skiing. The only place in southern Idaho that's worth anything is the area around Sun Valley in my opinion.

I think Cascadia should extend down to at least Santa Cruz or Monterey, Ca, where they have hippies, weed, surfing, and good music. Then it should curve up and around Fresno, so as to Include Yosemite, and Mammoth, So as to include rock climbing and sick skiing, but avoid the Valley huns in FresBro. They associate better with SoCal bros than they do with our progressive thought.

Basically, we'd be the coolest place in the fuckin world.

Oh, and Colorado can come with us, (particularly Denver/Boulder people) since they're our eastern Enclave of radness and free thought.

first things first though... lets get the Seattle Supersonics back...

Click for larger image
Feb 23 2011 5:23AM
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alexg1687
Posts: 1505 - Karma: 1,581
those states were always going to overthrow their leaders in favour of democracy. it was just a matter of time. iraq is complicated because it was a regional and global threat. but its now a stable democracy and its citizens are reaping the benefits. there's no doubt that, to some extent, the citizens of surrounding nations are looking at that and thinking wait a sec, we can have a much better life.

so was george w bush right? can the middle east handle democracy? yes, yes and more yes. its inconceivable (and impractical) that the US would move from country to country spreading "the good word" of democracy but there's nothing wrong with what happened in iraq. its just good to see the surrounding states choosing a better future for themselves.
Feb 23 2011 5:51AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,687
I'm all for spreading democracy, but did we have to blow the shit out of the country for that to happen?

If those states were always goin to overthrow their leaders, Whos to say The people of Iraq would have eventually gotten fuckin sick of Hussain anyways and done the same shit that's happened in Northeast Africa and beyond? You think that the Egyptians and Tunisians were looking at Iraq with a POSITIVE outlook? I didnt see any alluding to that situation coming from the protesters... Middle east protests are pretty outspoken... you would have heard something about that if it was the case... I'd say it's safe to assume that those countries revolted on their own power, and the 'stable democracy' in Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with it.

The only nation that is so closed off and isolated that it's stemmed most potential revolt would probably be North Korea... And even that has an Animal Farm situation coming up if this arduous march keeps going... either that or they'll just starve themselves out to the point where they cant fight a war to begin with, much less stave off the South Koreans.. Even Iran could be overrun by revolution, if it grows large enough (we almost saw it happen last year...)


Feb 23 2011 6:02AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
like others said, i dont think this stuff is fueled by iraq in any way since iraq has a long way to get to what can even be called a stable democracy.

internet, and these kids seeing all this stuff about western possibilities that they expect for themselves. tunisia was the most important step, unbloody and fast, gave hope to all the others.

also, the younger generation has not that much to do with islamists and dont want ultra-fundamental governments, so there is a legitimate chance that the whole world can profit longterm of these developments
Feb 23 2011 6:22AM
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O.G.Surachai
Posts: 334 - Karma: 84
Ya know what the best part of this whole argument is? Tunisia, Egypt and Libya aren't a part of the middle east...they're in Africa.
Feb 23 2011 12:59PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
not like waves of democratic uprisings hasn't happened before.......
Feb 23 2011 1:11PM
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PotFarmer
Posts: 104 - Karma: 10
NICE THREAD DUDE! YOU WIN!
Feb 23 2011 1:21PM
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SketchySwiss
Posts: 393 - Karma: 43
Lol. Arab doesn't even mean anything.
Persian =/= Arab

People in Maghreb are a big mix (berberes, persians, arabs, jews, romains from long time ago)

I m from Algeria and most of my family is still living there. These country have been fucked up for a loooong time.

Ressources. Ressources. Ressources. Ressources. They've got em all. But nobody living their is having a penny from it.

Feb 23 2011 1:45PM
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SketchySwiss
Posts: 393 - Karma: 43
Beside Tunisa. They only have "Clubs Meds" as ressources LOL.

What I was just trying to say is that it's clumsy (wtf is this word?!?) to say that all the people living from Afghanistan to Marocco are Arab.

I fucking always sounds so sketchy ahahahaha
Feb 23 2011 1:55PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,687
They are in the Arab world.

There have also been protests in other arab nations like Yemen, Bahrain, and Jordan, which ARE in what is geographically defined in the game of RISK, as the middle east.
Feb 23 2011 2:11PM
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O.G.Surachai
Posts: 334 - Karma: 84
OP is about installment of gov. in the Middle East and other countries in the "region" following suit. The Arab League stretches to the far west coast of Africa but that doesn't make it the same geographical region. Is Morocco part of the middle east? That would be like saying Estonia has the exact same political structure as Italy because their both in Europe.
Feb 23 2011 3:30PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,687
Political structure?

I believe culture ties into this better than 'political structure.'
Feb 23 2011 4:57PM
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O.G.Surachai
Posts: 334 - Karma: 84
So it's about them being Muslim then. Guess that means Nigeria and Indonesia are Arab states too. Actually disregard this lol, I feel like I'm dragging this off topic for no particular reason
Feb 23 2011 6:00PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,687
YOU made the changes? Pretty sure i've seen that one before lol


The doug fir flag is the real one though.
Feb 23 2011 6:00PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,687
Religion isn't the only cultural aspect in play here, homie lol.

learn what culture is first. It's not just religion, by any means.
Feb 24 2011 5:22PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218

Just wait until Saudi kick's off....  which it will.... then America is proper fucked...

America is so in bed with Saudi Arabia it's not true, especially in terms of oil... 

If that place broke down - get ready for a drilling bonanza off California, in North Dakota (in the Bakken.... look it up) and obv in the gulf...  

Feb 24 2011 5:26PM
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vailsux.com
Posts: 1769 - Karma: 440
too late, already happening.
Feb 24 2011 5:48PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,687
You really think that will go down Humo? With the whole gulf oil spill that just happened and California's stiff opposition to offshore drilling in SoCal, do you think that will ever happen should the Saudis start throwing stones?


Feb 24 2011 6:06PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
I got Niobrara fever!

Isn't it great to be the only people get excited about higher oil prices?

But Saudi is a very different place than the rest of the middle east, it is very controlled but there is a middle class and people are not living in deplorable conditions.

It is going to be impossible to even get a frac in the Bakken if prices get up to 150 again.

/sorry rambling..
Feb 24 2011 6:46PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
yo, tasche/H8CH battle, its gonna be oily in here
Feb 24 2011 6:58PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218

Yeah I hear you...

Well - Saudi isn't that great....  it's not like the Emirates etc where wealth is shared, and invested into the cities and infrastructure.

I've been to Saudi before, and basically the Royal Family there retain pretty much all the oil wealth and it can be almost a 3rd world country in places.  Then - in the Aramco complexes it's just like being in America! American street lights, road  signs, cars, shops.... weird.

If it can kick off in Bahrain (which is an awesome place... and it's basically where all the Aramco expats go to party at weekends) then it can deffo kick off in Saudi. That said - if it did, they'd all be beheaded!

Im not to familiar with the Bakken - I just understand it contains a lot of oil....   but as for recoverability and reservoir hydraulics...  no idea,...  that's up to you... and good for you guys too! A big onshore project!

Either way - this fucking government needs to get Domestic production back on line rapid or else everyone is fucked... gas prices will rocket..

I just bought a Merc C63 AMG too... (/claim) and that's just what I do not want to happen!! !

Feb 25 2011 12:13PM
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muellerc
Posts: 177 - Karma: 26
not good not good
Feb 25 2011 12:20PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
uhhh, no. what we need is to stop spending so much money on oil and military funding and spend it on more sustainable energy/fuel sources that don't kill people and destroy the environment.


These countries are revolting because of our foreign policies supporting these oppressive governments. the people want a better life and want the oppressive regimes out. it seems like everybody but our own country realizes that we often either directly put those regimes (or allowed them to be put) in power in the first place.
Feb 25 2011 12:43PM
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eldridge
Posts: 2272 - Karma: 47
no need for "over" in that sentence.
Feb 25 2011 12:47PM
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.Roockley.
Posts: 3857 - Karma: 4,000
it's interesting to see this revolution going on in the middle east and northern africa

still can't see how it's going to end for some countries such as libya and bahrain
Feb 25 2011 12:57PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22

HAHHHAHAH!

Brrrrooo our media is retarded why even watch... I just follow Al Jazeera?!!!!!



CLASSIC!
Feb 25 2011 12:58PM
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PotFarmer
Posts: 104 - Karma: 10
Al Jazeera is 3000x better than US media. you are fucking stupid and brainwashed if you think otherwise.
Feb 25 2011 12:59PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
NPR
Feb 25 2011 1:11PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
NPR isn't exactly mainstream media...
Feb 25 2011 1:12PM
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JamesR
Posts: 3396 - Karma: -12
but it is in the US
Feb 25 2011 1:22PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
Okkk "PotFarmer" ahhahahah
Feb 25 2011 1:22PM
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thisisastickup
Posts: 597 - Karma: -24
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360343/Libya-Gaddafi-blames-Osama-bin-Laden-hallucinogenic-pills-Nescafe-uprising.html

"He went on: ‘Bin Laden ... this is the enemy who is manipulating the people. Do not be swayed by Bin Laden.’"

\YOU HEARD THE MAN, BIN LADEN DID IT.

What a fucking idiot.

Feb 25 2011 1:32PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
He also blamed hallucinogenic drugs in the youths Nestcafe loll
Feb 25 2011 1:42PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
ummm, your icon is "infedel"
Feb 25 2011 1:49PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
Loud and proud. whats your point?
Feb 25 2011 1:51PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
Btw you probably havn't embraced it yet but you are too...
Feb 25 2011 1:52PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
I love you Rowen (no homo), but the U.S. is still very influential on the global stage.  If the Statue of Liberty farts, they smell it in China.  Assuming that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had nothing to do with what's going on in the Middle East now seems a little ... naive? 

It's probably going to suck for all of us in the short run, but ultimately I think positive change will take place in the Middle East.  Many are concerned that these countries are going to fall under the control of hard line conservative Islamist groups.  IMO, that may happen in some countries for short periods of time, but it won't last.  The uprisings are happening because people want more personal freedoms.  Any regime that gives them less is doomed.     
Feb 25 2011 2:24PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
Hmm, where to begin? That you're mentality only perpetuates the reason that the extremists hate our society so much. We go into other countries and (if we don't overthrow the government to put one in that supports us), the people expect us to help them, but instead we usually only support their governments/military (rather than supporting education and reducing poverty) and only do so in exchange for their resources. This in turn makes the poor to rich disparity greater and causes more disdain for our government's policies, which is an international reflection of our country as a whole whether realistic or not.


That answer your question?
Feb 26 2011 6:57PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
Infidel is an identification given to non-believers. I have no idea what it has to do with all the hippy dribble you posted.

I am an Infidel as I do not believe in Allah or Islam.

Their prepetuating the hate not me.... its their term
Feb 27 2011 6:53PM
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The.Ginger
Posts: 978 - Karma: 13
They turned fuckin anti aircraft guns on the protestors, shits fucckkkkedddd
Feb 27 2011 6:58PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
And bombed them with fighter jets. And their steeling bodies to downplay the death count and hiding them. Shit is fucked
Feb 27 2011 7:00PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
no shit? it has to do with what i posted because that's what many extremists associate with us "non believers".

oh, and thanks for the hippie comment. +karma
Feb 27 2011 7:18PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
sorry, but this is the end of the US backed dictators in the middle east, which subsequently will end US hegemony on the region, until the cia can get their hands on a new one. it also has to do with raising food prices and lack of jobs. but to suggest that their present economic and social situation weren't the result of a ruling political elite backed by western powers and international trade organizations is simply naive.
Feb 27 2011 7:29PM
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