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Automatic No Driver Needed Electric Winch

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kmehrkens
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10
Hey everyone,

I'm new to the forum and am not much of a skier any more since I quit about 10 years ago for wakeboarding, but I throw a Heli or two in when I go back to the slopes. Tha's about it for my bag of tricks.

I wanted to jump on here to see what you guys think of the prototype winch I made. Winching is pretty popular in wakeboarding/wakeskating but maybe not so popular with snow skiing. I really don't have any idea but imagine in flat spots it applies.

The winch I made for wakeboarding is designed to be operated by the rider and eliminates the need of finding a boat, driver, spotter, etc. What I really want to know more about is this; Do skiers see something like this, or a similar system with the same concept, as something they would use to set up a small jib park or to hit jumps on flat land?

Here is the link to my video. YouTube - Lake Pepin Innovation, LLC. Automatic Ski Towing System - Patent Pending. If you're interested, you can also read about what other people are saying here, Electric Winch - it''s Fully automatic no driver needed. - Wakeboarding Discussion.

I'm not trying to sell the idea to anyone here- just trying to see how this would apply to your world. I'm in the process of making a second generation prototype and want to get as much feedback as possible. If you know anyone who is interested in working with me to take the idea to the next level, contact me.

Let me know what you think!

Kyle
Feb 12 2011 9:57AM
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PeterWojnar
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 678
It's cool for sure, and a winch made for and marketed for skiing and snowboarding would probably sell, but it would have to stand out from every other winch on the market, in features and in price. Right now, for urban features, some people are using winches marketed for other purposes— all it takes is a friend to push the button, and skiers and boarders roughly never ski urban alone, so it's not really a problem. The other competition you'd face is from the significantly less expensive Banshee Bungee— it's a bungee cord you and your friends would pull back, then it tows you in. Significantly lighter, cheaper, and infinitely more simple.

To be honest I don't know how well a it would sell at all, but if it's good enough that everyone currently using a winch and some of the people using a Bungee switch, it could work.

Definitely marketable, maybe sellable.
Feb 12 2011 3:43PM
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CaliforniaDouble
Posts: 218 - Karma: 22
Hey Kyle,

A friend of mine designed and built a gas powered winch several years ago, before the commercial models were available. Since then, we've used it for wakeboarding/wakeskating and skiing and snowboarding in all kinds of different locations. Your idea is pretty cool, and it is awesome that you actually built a working model, but there are a couple things I notice that might be less than ideal for most people.

The biggest advantage your design has over others is the ability for you to operate it alone. To be able to do that consistently and safely (for the equipment) is something I haven't seen anywhere else. Although I have always been able to find others to join me winching, for someone who lives in a remote location, or for a high school kid who wants to skate every day in the summer, this would be a big plus.

Another upside is not having to anchor the winch, but because it takes 15 minutes to setup, this is pretty much a moot point. Anchoring our winch by rope takes a few minutes, and using the hitch adaptor my buddy built into the frame makes it easy to anchor to a truck.

The biggest disadvantage I see for you though is lack of mobility. I think I've really only used the hitch adaptor I mentioned a handful of times, because most of the places we find to use the winch (for wakeskating) you can't get to by truck. Similarly, it would be tough to get a golf cart through a snow bank to the perfect location you found for your rail setup.

The middle part of the below video is an example of a place I came across with some friends on a drive across the country. We were drove over a bridge in the middle of nowhere new mexico, and thought we'd give the river a shot. Ended up having to hike the winch down a steep bank and go quite a ways down the river before we could find a place deep and straight enough.

I'm definitely not trying to get you down on the idea, just point out some areas you can improve. Good products usually take many iterations, but the fact that you've already made the first working model means you've already taken down the hardest part.




Feb 12 2011 3:44PM
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Jaymon
Posts: 860 - Karma: 1,213
learn to ride brosef

jklol



but fer realz learn not to suck
Feb 12 2011 7:46PM
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kmehrkens
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10
powderbro-

Thanks for your insight. I truly have lost touch with what's going on in that world, so thank you for your comments.

That Banshee Bungee seems like it would be hard to beat for sure. The comment I like is that people use winches designed for other activities for skiing. I liked to hear that. I think I know what I have to do to make it better than the rest in that area.  Thanks again for your insight!



SLOskier36,

That is a great writeup! Thanks for your comments.

Your video is awesome man! That trip would have been sick. The music and editing is also well done. Nice work!

You're exactly right in that the advantage is to operate it alone. That was the sole purpose for making this first prototype. I just wanted to go rip sometimes after work while there was still light. The solution was to make something I could setup or leave setup and just take a few pulls when I felt like riding.

As for the mobility, this setup was the cheapest.  I didn't know for sure if everything would work as planned, so I wanted to get rid of the parts easily in case it were a flop.  In the end, the cart's weight and mobility were perfect for me and where I winch.  I realize that it's not the ideal setup for everyone.  The second generation prototype will address those issues for sure.

Feel free to add more comments. 


Kyle

Feb 13 2011 11:01AM
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CKpolicy
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 2,463
google tahitian omen winch.
Feb 13 2011 11:54AM
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kmehrkens
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10
ckk- yea, I've seen that winch before. It's pretty sick but isn't automatic nor electric, which is what I wanted from a winch. It does have a mean look to it though!
Feb 14 2011 9:55PM
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zerospinskier
Posts: 4867 - Karma: 350
So I see that it looks like it only turns on when there is force pulling the rope, so it will stop when you fall/let go. But how to you start it? And how to you walk out the rope without it accidentally starting to wind back up?
Feb 14 2011 10:56PM
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KrazyistKarl
Posts: 1725 - Karma: 599
you're smart, i can tell. Those are solid questions and I too am wondering the same thing about this design. Iv got all those answers figured out for my design already
Feb 14 2011 11:19PM
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kmehrkens
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10
zerospinskier$ and KrazyistKarl-

There are many different ways to start and stop the system based on tension. I can't tell you exactly how I did it, but can say that it was the easiest and cheapest way.  If you zone out and ponder the concept a bit, lots of ideas will come into your head.  Designing a system is half the fun.

It looks like there is some interest in a product similar to this for snow. The Banshee Bungee is a tough product to compete against. However, there are always ways to improve or beat the current market leader.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with KrazyistKarl.

Keep the comments coming.
Feb 15 2011 7:14AM
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DGiurk
Posts: 786 - Karma: 194
good input asshole
Feb 15 2011 8:04AM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893
You need to hit up the video section and watch some urban, which is the main reason for bungee, winch or tow in.  Because urban is not generally smiled upon by the authorities, you need to be able to set up and break down quickly.  A golf cart with the wheels pulled off is a little too conspicuous.  And you need a trailer to get it to wherever you are going.  I'm sure it is quiet, which is a good thing, but the size and setup time would make it less than ideal for urban.  I could see this being used in the Midwest in places where you have lots of land and snow, but limited hills. 
Feb 15 2011 11:18AM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
i built and designed my own gas powered winch, so i know the time and effort you've put into this! after thoroughly researching the electric option (after reading through multiple wakeboard designs) i came to the conclusion that the electric option just doesn't provide as much torque/speed for the weight you're dealing with.

the thing with towing into an urban on skis/snowboards is that you need a LOT of speed to make the winch even worth it. Wakeboarding speeds are usually preferable at a max of 20 mph (i could be completely wrong with that now days, but back when i wakeboarded that was the case), and 20 mph is usually fairly attainable with a banshee bungee. The winches that Kurt Heine is producing (http://heinesnowtools.com/) are hands down the best in the game, and provide max speeds of 40-50 mph in as little as 300 ft of in-run. they are also relatively light (about 100 lbs), and incredibly easy to set up and take down.

i really, really like the idea of no operator, but sadly, in order to break into the ski and snowboard industry, you need to provide a shitload of speed while keeping your configuration as mobile as possible.

good luck dude! you seem sharp, i'm sure you'll get it dialed in!
Feb 15 2011 11:59AM
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kmehrkens
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10
DGiurk- exactly.

Mr.HuckUltimate Bling! - Your comment is dead on. It's the same thing for wakeboarding and wakeskating in urban areas. It needs to be set up and torn down quickly. The best part about my winch, other than it's electric, is the ability to start and stop it alone. I know the whole golf cart idea isn't ideal- it was just my prototype. However, in the flatlands with snow in the Midwest, this would work well.
 
loganimlach$ - Right on man! Designing and building your own winch is super rewarding! It's an accomplishment for sure! Keep in mind though that electric motors have a ton of low-end torque! Wakeboarding speeds are still the same by the way. I checked out Heine's winch and didn't see anything completely different than other gas winches out there, but 40-50 mph is moving, wow. Thank you for your tip on speed and mobility. That makes perfect sense. I like how the guy has been making stuff since 1988!

Thanks for your comments guys!  I'll keep the thread updated!!

Kyle
Feb 15 2011 8:48PM
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kmehrkens
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10
Hey everyone,

I just wanted to drop a line here for everyone to let you know I am planning on showing my new rig at a few events in Minnesota this summer. I will update the thread if anyone is interested in coming to check it out. You'll have to trade in the snowboard for a wakeboard but it will still be cool.

Check back here or http://lakepepininnovation.com/index.php?p=1_8_Events for more news on this summer's events.

Kyle

Mar 3 2011 8:32AM
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kmehrkens
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10
http://lakepepininnovation.com/index.php?p=1_8_Events
Mar 3 2011 8:35AM
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