Lens help

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Crazy Fool

Alright thanks for the input

Jan 10 2011 8:13PM

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Troy.

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Rather than make another thread about it, I'll just jump in here. I am considering buying a Canon 40D body, don't think it shoots video. Same lens suggestions apply, or others?

Cheers

Jan 10 2011 8:48PM

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Crazy Fool

Fucking thread jacker GTFO

Haha jk lol omg

Jan 10 2011 8:59PM

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Microcosm

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I believe the 40D and the T2i both have a 1.6x crop sensor. In that case, any lens suggestions for the T2i should apply to the 40D as well. If you're interested in a lens just do a quick check before ordering that it's compatible with your camera.

Jan 10 2011 9:25PM

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Crazy Fool

Anybody know of any lenses that won't break the bank?

Jan 10 2011 9:54PM

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Troy.

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Call me a terrorist, cuz I be jackin this thread.

Jan 10 2011 9:57PM

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Blurst

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Crazy Fool

Are you doing mostly filming or photo?

Jan 10 2011 9:59PM

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chipkalback

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http://lenshero.com/

Jan 10 2011 10:34PM

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the.cheat

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i would also like to know stuff like this. i am only 15, but starting to really get interested in filming and photography, so im hoping to have enough for a t2i by summer.

Jan 10 2011 11:05PM

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Crazy Fool

Wow great find my friend.

Jan 10 2011 11:35PM

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erikK

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If Canon makes a 16-85, I would highly recommend it

Jan 11 2011 12:48AM

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Play Ball

Needed:

50mm 1.8 if you're poor, 1.4 if youre not

70-200, seriously, i shot a bunch this weekend with dslrs and i used the 70-200 the most.

check out a wide angle, 11-16, 12-24 10-20 something like that.

check out tamron (i think) 17-50 2.8

Jan 11 2011 12:50AM

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Crazy Fool

I read somewhere that the 50mm was a good lens for a full frame sensor. What would be the equivalent of that lens for a t2i? maybe a 30mm of some sort?

Jan 11 2011 10:12PM

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Crazy Fool

35mm ~ 56mm on a Canon aps-c camera

Jan 12 2011 10:48AM

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Play Ball

Sigma makes a 30mm 1.4. 30mm ~ 48mm on aps-c cameras.

Jan 12 2011 10:52AM

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Ridiculous

yeah a 30mm is what you'd be looking for

Jan 12 2011 12:44PM

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Ridiculous

Please also keep in mind when buying a long lens (70-200, 70-300, anything like that), make sure that the lens has image stabilization (IS). It is a little bit more money, but it is worth every penny, these DLSR's that shoot video really need that extra assistance. Also keep in mind that lenses depreciate much slower then cameras do, so dishing out a bit more cash for a lens is usually worth it for 2 reasons, one, you usually get a higher quality lens, and two, it holds its value for longer, so if yo were to ever re-sell the lens, you can demand a higher price and not lose value on it. Just some food for thought...

Jan 12 2011 12:49PM

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Play Ball

IS is pointless for video. The IS is made for photos and the IS won't make any difference with video because if you're moving the camera enough for IS to be useful for photo, your video is going to be shakey as shit. The IS is only effective with if the camera is moving and at a low shutter speed. You should be (even though some done) on a tripod or some sort of stabilization so IS is worthless. So if you're shooting, save your money, buy non-IS lenses.

Jan 12 2011 2:01PM

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1337

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this

Jan 12 2011 2:42PM

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Ridiculous

watch this http://vimeo.com/17862898 ... Bloom makes some very interesting points at about 3:45. If you're shooting with a shoulder rig, a glidecam, or anything handheld at some point, then IS is definatly worth it. Check out this video as well that Dan Carr made, maybe you will understand what I am getting at. http://vimeo.com/13198239 If you have the extra cash, IS is not a bad idea because it can help you create smoother footage as well as makes the lens more valuable for resale in the end.

Jan 12 2011 5:42PM

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Play Ball

I'm sorry, that video sucked, they didn't even mention video which leads me to believe they were talking about strictly photo...

I still think its a waste of money, you don't need IS for video, plain and simple. there is a reason why cinema lenses don't have IS, because IS is make for photos. Just shoot with a tripod or stabilization and you don't need it :)

Also, i'm pretty sure IS does nothing while in live view anyway, its not the same as OIS on video cameras...

Jan 12 2011 5:55PM

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chipkalback

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eheath is indeed correct. IS for video work is unnecessary and I've read that if you're shooting video with a lens that has IS, that you should turn it off. Same goes with long exposure photos.

Jan 12 2011 6:47PM

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Ridiculous

1. Ok sorry, but critiquing a tutorial video is pointless, I did not post it for you to critique. I posted it to provide some info on the topic.

2. I found this video on the "Vimeo Video School" page, so thats how I know it is relevant to video.

3. Since when does Philip Bloom use DSLR's to shoot photos? He is a cinematographer.

4. The reason cinema lenses don't have IS, is because they're cinema lenses. What I mean by that is that we are talking about DSLR's here, so you need to talk about the tools available (IS in lenses). I doubt most of the people reading this will ever use a cinema lens to film a web edit. We are discussing using DSLR lenses, so use some of the features (IS) if they help.

5. There are some instances when you will not be able to use a tripod, or the correct method of stabilization (shoulder rig, glidecam etc.). IS will help for that as well.

6. I am not 100% sure, but I believe that IS does work during live view depending on what camera you are using. I use the 7D and 5DmkII and it defiantly works during live view on those cameras.

Having a reliable source such as Philip Bloom saying these things, leaves me reason to believe they are true. He is the "godfather" of DSLR video and knows more then all of us about it, thus I would trust him and his opinion (not saying that you're not a credible source). Anyone looking to shoot video with an DSLR should head over to his website www.philipbloom.net and check out some of his articles and tutorials. The best part about it is that it is all free information!

Happy shooting!

Jan 12 2011 7:22PM

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Crazy Fool

yeah I guess 30mm would be better for Canon, Nikon's 1.5x factor makes the 35mm ~ 52mm, and 1.6x is a bit different

Jan 12 2011 8:47PM

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GraemeMeiklejohn

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I know we are talking Canon's here but since we have lumped them in as DSLRs that shoot video in general I think it is important to mention that the Panasonic GH1's kit lens (that is optimized for video) has built in OIS like a video camera. The difference between this and IS I'm not sure of but I do know that using this lens handheld I get a lot less shake in footage than with my manual non IS or OIS Nikon lenses.

It seems more than likely that any lens that has a built in system for less shake wether it be optimized for video or not, such as auto-focus Canon lenses will auto-focus in video just not as well as a lens optimized for video (once again GH1 kit lens is optimized for video style continuos auto focus)

Jan 12 2011 11:24PM

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whistlerdan

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Ok firstly there should be distinction between shooting video on a tripod and using a hand held rig or shoulder mount. IS is absolutely useful on a "run and gun rig". Hybrid IS as seen on the 100mm macro, even more so. I dont know anyone who only shoots on a tripod 100% so I'd say go with IS.

On a tripod with a longer lens such as the 70-200 then yes IS is very useful. Watch this demonstration http://vimeo.com/8932027. If you are panning with IS on make sure you have mode 2 selected.

Long exposure photos are a whole different kettle of fish, you should NOT use IS. But thats a photo and hes talking video.

Jan 13 2011 12:06AM

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Play Ball

If you're running a shutter higher than 1/120 you can only be as steady as your support, IS wont do shit.

Jan 13 2011 12:25AM

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Crazy Fool

Ok thanks for all the input. If you could list what lenses you would take with you if you were going to ONLY shoot video, and what you lenses would bring if you were ONLY going to shoot photos?

Jan 13 2011 12:34AM

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whistlerdan

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Well shit I guess I'm just making it up then, Chunk make sure you switch IS off while you make this years movie with your 70-200 !!

Jan 13 2011 2:04AM

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Ridiculous

Do you shoot video with a DSLR?

I have yet to see you back up your facts with any evidence like Dan and myself have.

I, along with most other people in the DSLR video world believe Philip Bloom is a reliable source, if you think that he does not know what he is talking about then you have lost all your credibility on this topic.

On another note, Chip, could you show me where you read that turning IS off is a good idea? If it was a long time ago I understand, I am just curious to see who wrote it, thats all :).

This is a good debate.

Jan 13 2011 2:08AM

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This is probably not the reason, but I've heard quite a few times that turning off IS is a good idea because the IS is really noisy and the camera picks up that noise. I don't know where this came from though because the IS on all my lenses is silent.

Jan 13 2011 2:11AM

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Ridiculous

Ok, good question!

I would recommend this list for someone shooting video on the Canon 7D or 5DmkII. I know one camera is full frame and the other is crop, but you can figure out the difference.

Wide Angle: Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8

I use this lens on the 7D and it is awesome! Great for follow cams and some interview stuff as well. Mostly for 7D, you can find a similar one for the 5D.

Nifty Fifty: Canon 50mm f/1.8

I use this as my primary interview lens, for around $100 you cannot go wrong! A step up is the 50mm f/1.4, but for how much more it costs, the image is not even that much better so I don't think it is worth it. This is good on both the 7D and 5D.

My "Kit" Lens: Canon 24-70mm f/2.8

This lens is legit! If you have the choice between buying a camera body with a kit lens, or just the body. I would recommend buy just the body and shell out some extra money for this lens. I have used this lens so many times and it is awesome! It will hold its value very well and exceed expectations every time. This is good on both the 7D and the 5D.

Long Lens: Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 IS (version 1)

This is my long lens that I will use in the backcountry mainly, but sometimes other things are appropriate as well. The IS in this lens is key, I could have bought the f/4, but I felt that for resale value as well as if I ever wanted to shoot something in low light that it would be worth it. This is good on both the 7D and the 5D.

Doubler: Canon 2x Teleconverter

This is the doubler that I use with the 70-200mm above. Turns the lens into a 140-400mm f/5.6. Usually when I shoot in the backcountry it is a bright sunny day, so I am not worried about the lens being f/5.6 instead of f/2.8. This works with both the 7D and the 5D.

These are all lenses that I currently own and use day to day while I film. I really would like to have some more money to get some more primes or some other cool lenses like a tilt-shift, but that will come with time.

If I missed anything, or someone has any questions, please do not hesitate to ask!

Jan 13 2011 2:37AM

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Ridiculous

Hmm, I am in the same situation, I have heard that but I don't remember who said it either... I could understand that maybe if you were shooting in low light? Still a mystery though.

Jan 13 2011 2:44AM

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Why in low light?

Jan 13 2011 2:53AM

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and no reply...

this is why i usually don't argue with orange names

Jan 13 2011 3:25AM

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[~_~]

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@th1337

That site is very misleading; it mostly hails Canon lenses. You can get much better vintage lenses for much cheaper. Vintage option aside, some new Zeiss EF lenses will go for $800 - $1,200 and absolutely slay any $1,500 lens from Canon or Nikon in every way.

Jan 13 2011 4:07AM

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TWoods

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The "golden rule" is that you can eliminate most noticeable hand shake from a shot with a lens if you are shooting a shutter speed that is greater than the focal length of the lens. I've heard other people say 150% which for me seems more reasonable. (50mm = 1/80th a second, for example). below that, you would be able to pick out motion blur in your frames caused by the shake in your hands. It is actually pretty close. If you're running 120 at 200 or 300 mm, I'm sure even on a tripod there's small shakes that IS would be helpful in eliminating.

Jan 13 2011 9:55AM

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CaliforniaDouble

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With respect to still shots, IS should be turned off when using a fixed tripod. This prevents the IS system from "correcting" shake that isn't really there, introducing movement into a shot that was previously stabilized. But I'm not sure this is what you're referring to.

As for IS with video, I think it's probably useful depending what frame rate you are shooting. For instance, if you're above 1/250, it won't really matter much. Below that, however, I would think that IS keeps each frame itself in better focus than IS were not present. If you're panning around, maybe this isn't the case, but for still straight shots on a subject, I don't know why it wouldn't help. Moving the camera around is still moving the camera around though, so it won't get rid of erratic movements visible in a series of frames played together (film). I'm just speculating though, I've really never thought about it before.

Jan 13 2011 12:45PM

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CaliforniaDouble

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I guess I should have watched some of the vimeo links before posting. I'm sold (but I was before).

Jan 13 2011 12:55PM

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Play Ball

I shot a bunch last weekend with a 7D and 1Dmk4 with a 70-200 2.8 non IS and had no troubles with anything, nothing IS would fix. If you're running a high shutter, what is IS going to do?

Jan 13 2011 1:38PM

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Crazy Fool

nothing, all it would help is the unusual amount of handheld heroes on NS

my advice: get a tripod and glidecam and VR/IS is useless

Jan 13 2011 2:58PM

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Why would IS not be as effective at a high shutter? Honest question, I just don't think i quite understand the thinking behind the statement.

As far as I understood, IS is to help reduce the visibility of camera shake. Wouldn't you still be able to tell the camera is shaking regardless of how fast the shutter is? the only difference would be that with a lower speed there's motion blur.

Jan 13 2011 3:04PM

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Ridiculous

Just because you shot last weekend with the camera does not make you an expert, you need to own one/shoot with one for a long period of time. That way you can have some real personal experience in all types of shooting situations and know how the camera will act.

I understand what you are saying in regards to high shutter.

I know a ton of people out there that run their DSLR for video with settings that are similar to the 180 degree rule in film... For example if shooting 24p their shutter is 1/50, shooting 30p their shutter 1/60, shooting 60p their shutter 1/125. The point is to get it as close to double the frame rate as possible but still staying above it. These settings will make the footage look more like "film" and some people want that. Thus, if you are keeping your shutter that low, IS is a good choice.

So why wouldn't you shell the extra money out to keep your options open as far as shooting goes, as well as make the lens more valuable for resale in the future.

Jan 13 2011 3:08PM

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Crazy Fool

this is one example, but a very valid one:

the tamron 17-50 f2.8 without VC is sharper then the non-VC model

Jan 13 2011 3:14PM

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