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Another King of Style thread

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Jacob_W
Posts: 812 - Karma: 1,387
Just thought I'd post this here. Been thinking quite a lot about city competitions and our contest scene in general. Sort of a long read.

http://www.freeride.se/jacobwester/2010/11/23/thoughts-on-style-and-its-royal-family/

I have no idea how to make that a link so if anyone wants to help a brother out, go ahead.

Nov 23 2010 4:20AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Clickedyclick.

http://www.freeride.se/jacobwester/2010/11/23/thoughts-on-style-and-its-royal-family/
Nov 23 2010 4:22AM
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.Tom.
Posts: 1176 - Karma: 910
Pretty much sums it up perfectly, but leaves that massive question, where do we go from here?
Nov 23 2010 4:44AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Welp, I think you're on to something with that Street League stuff. Top pros should be able to execute flawlessly time after time, I really liked the cumulative format. Couldn't see why Sheckler got 5.6 for that kickflip, but...

In the end, that could just end up like Horse: "270 off, bs 270 off, 450 off, 270 on, 450 0n, 630, 810 on!!!!" et cetera with skiers just oneupping each other. Again, how would, say, a hippy killer fare against a fastslide?
Nov 23 2010 4:45AM
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auski
Posts: 730 - Karma: 1,033

I agree with a lot of that. The best way to demontrate style is in a movie segment anyway.

People have a problem with things like SImon's dub 10 beating Casabon, but even more shit will hit the fan and there'll be even more debate when there's 2 riders considered 'stylish' up against each other each with their own groupies on here

Nov 23 2010 4:52AM
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KLovelace
Posts: 2118 - Karma: 289
nicely articulated and I totally agree! Style is pretty much immeasurable and everyone seems to have a different opinion of what constitutes style..
Nov 23 2010 5:41AM
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Jacob_W
Posts: 812 - Karma: 1,387
the main concept of a street league format would basically be as follows:

a skier could possibly win the entire comp with say, the following 7, stomped tricks:

dub cork 10
dub cork 12
switch 10
switch 9
cork 9
rodeo 9
switch 7

relatively easy tricks for the top pros, but they would all have to be executed absolutely flawlessly.

then you'd have your other type of athlete, the balls to the wall - all or nothing kind of skier, that would do something different like:

switch dub cork 10
switch dub misty 12
switch dub cork 12
dub cork 12 blunt
crash while attempting any of the above mentioned
crash while attempting any of the above mentioned
crash while attempting any of the above mentioned

so he will get super high scores for the few tricks that he puts down, because theyre insane super tricks that the general public will love + they get to see crashes!

the first skier will enjoy the love of the ski community for bringing style and less technical tricks into the game, and stomping every single trick that he attempts.

BOTH could win!
Nov 23 2010 5:56AM
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Jacob_W
Posts: 812 - Karma: 1,387
to further add to this, you would be allowed to throw the same trick twice, or more, but you would get 10% less for each time you do it. this way you'd let athletes do another attempt at a trick theyve already landed but maybe put a hand down on, etc.

all trick would be scored 1-10 with decimals.
Nov 23 2010 5:58AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Well, sell the idea to Jon for the next JOI.
Nov 23 2010 6:00AM
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B.Aussie
Posts: 5851 - Karma: 4,522
Really interesting read, bit of a reality check hopefully to the people that read it. Had never really thought about the progression and the whole style issue.
Nov 23 2010 6:09AM
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msndotwav
Posts: 807 - Karma: 4,473
Wow.. Really good read, Jacob! Makes me think a lot of how this sport is going to progress, and I actually thought the same as you when I saw the Rob Dyrdek’s Street League.
Nov 23 2010 6:41AM
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LIL_WAT
Posts: 1900 - Karma: 475
Great ideas Jacob. Maybe progression could move into hand drag/ nose butter take offs like what Corey Vanular has done. Rightside as always can be worked on. Double grabs can be improved on too. my 0.02. Put all of that together and you could have a really unique set of tricks.
Nov 23 2010 6:45AM
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*TURBONERD*
Posts: 15078 - Karma: 9,132
That idea is brilliant. It could work beautifully. Also, as somebody else stated, rightside has yet to be explored to any extent in doubles, but that will soon change.
Nov 23 2010 6:53AM
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fricino13
Posts: 268 - Karma: 14
nice post
Nov 23 2010 6:54AM
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Jacob_W
Posts: 812 - Karma: 1,387
obviously, rightside spins would count as different tricks. one could absolutely slay an event with say

sw left 10
sw right 10
sw dub left 10
sw dub right 10
left dub 10
right dub 10
+ something else ridiculous.

and thats just 10s. even the same tricks but 9s wouls be unreal. if theres one way to find out who is the single best jumper in the game, this is it.

+ if you wanna get real inspired by street league, you could have a rail section as well, and make that count too.

Nov 23 2010 6:59AM
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msndotwav
Posts: 807 - Karma: 4,473
Wow, Jon Olsson.. He wrote this in the comment field below. The english here is really fucked up, google translated it from swedish to english. Thought you all wanted see this..

"Shit. What arrogance man! You get yourself sound like you stand for development. You're not a pioneer in the sport Jacob. And no, I was in Aussie and learned Kangaroo flips (to then proceed to take DJ Flip etc) and you would then, over to agreement run your race in Are, is bullshit!
I came home with Kangaroo in the bag, and you stole it quickly so you could run the same at MY event in Are.

Go back a few yards, take a breath of air and place your feet on earth again."
Nov 23 2010 7:01AM
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Jacob_W
Posts: 812 - Karma: 1,387
i wouldnt worry about that part, theres no way jon would actually write that in the comment field of a blog, that seems below him.

if so, thats...uh, immature. i thought i took the time to give creds where creds was deserved + the majority of cred should go to wilson for even starting the whole thing. besides, its not even the point of the text, im not trying to come off as some sort of pioneer, we're all pioneers doing doubles as we're the first generation doing them with grabs and switch takeoffs/landings.
Nov 23 2010 7:04AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Hah, angry Swedish sounds so damn funny and... soft. It's not the first time that he would announce his opinion like that, but we'll see.
Nov 23 2010 7:10AM
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lilulrik
Posts: 70 - Karma: 10
It would have been the sickest comp ever. Please make this happen, someone needs to get some hella sponsor money and make such an event. I'm so tired of the same old contest formats. The only competition ever showing some creativity is the JOSS/video comps, but I feel like we need something new.
Nov 23 2010 7:19AM
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msndotwav
Posts: 807 - Karma: 4,473
I agree with the cred thing and basically everything you say, it's just that it's not the first time Jon says something completely stupid.

This thread is by the way one of the most interesting threads I've seen on NS.
Nov 23 2010 7:29AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
You just wait till the 'muricans really start waking up and logging in.


:)
Nov 23 2010 7:38AM
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skia4life89
Posts: 2400 - Karma: 172
wow i have to say that, well that was well spoken jacob. I agree with everything that you have stated. Hopefully some event organizers would listen to that idea and do something with it. Do you realize how intense and how much baller that would make our sport look? seriously that would be amazing.


And to ever really thinks jon put that comment there, you are mistaken. Jon is professional and would not call out someone in the comment section of someone elses blog, esp when jacob gave him credit in the first place.
Nov 23 2010 7:39AM
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hauser
Posts: 1131 - Karma: 469
Well that makes things much better.
Nov 23 2010 7:50AM
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Plind
Posts: 416 - Karma: 33
this street league idea seems legit and maybe should get worked out so something can change in further contests
Nov 23 2010 8:26AM
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Matty_C
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 236

Excellent work Jacob, very well thought through I must say.

I would argue though that while your proposed system (which I think is awesome) would work great for, say, JOI, it seems that scaffold events and even XGames big air are constrained by tighter time frames, so affording that number of hits to each of the athletes might be unrealistic. Given that these events are essentially for the amusement of the wider audience whose concentration span (one assumes) when it comes to watching a ski comp is 1 hour, maybe 2...

Is that fair?

For what its worth, I still think there are still legit city comps (i.e. those that stick to the 3 run formula like Freestyle.ch) with style and tech elements being compulsory. Unfortunately the London and Stockholm events seem to have opted for the man-on-man 1 hit gayness that presumably they think is more dramatic to the uninitiated wider audience. Jacob, for the record do the other pros prefer the 3 hit option vs the man-on-man or does everyone just turn up hhoping to get paid? Just interested...

Nov 23 2010 8:51AM
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pfnotsch
Posts: 244 - Karma: 30
i have not read everything and in dont really know what the tread is about, but all i have to say is that the big air city comps really suck this year! the only tricks i see are f... dub corks 10 or 12 so boring to watch for me and even for other people who watch the sport and are not really into this freestyle scene.... they don recognize any difference between the trick becasue they are all the same... i think its the dead for our sport. people wont watch freeskiing in the television any more and the TV stations (dont know how to say it in english) will quit our sport.
Nov 23 2010 9:03AM
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MaryO
Posts: 2583 - Karma: 5,996
Very nice blog Jacob. Thank you for the explaination and scenarios. It will be interesting to see how the Denver City Air competition goes down.
Nov 23 2010 9:06AM
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Oreos
Posts: 1207 - Karma: 38
you should read the blog before you comment. jeezus!
Nov 23 2010 9:09AM
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MaryO
Posts: 2583 - Karma: 5,996
You really SHOULD have read Jacob's blog and the comments before commenting.
Nov 23 2010 9:09AM
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quebecfreestyler
Posts: 13040 - Karma: 1,418

deciding who the 7 invited athletes are would be a pain in the .....

Nov 23 2010 9:22AM
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HuckMadTrix
Posts: 448 - Karma: 138
I've watched quite a bit of street league and it really gives you a sense of who the most well rounded, consistent skateboarder is. Certainly a format that would benefit all action sports including skiing big air.

Great blog, well written and thought out. Now we need someone with the money, organizing skills and connections to put it together such an event/comp...paging Mr. Olsson...
Nov 23 2010 9:35AM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
I think the JOI big air would be the best event to try out a new scoring system. You have some of the biggest names in the game (as well as most of the mentioned athletes involved in city big airs) and the only person you would have to convince would be Jon, and maybe the other riders. Great post though, I think it sums up the "problem" well.
Nov 23 2010 9:46AM
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i.ski.NC
Posts: 572 - Karma: 18
I like this. You have some really good ideas.
Nov 23 2010 9:55AM
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Noah_W
Posts: 810 - Karma: 3,238
Really good read...Awesome idea as well...it would be awesome to see this actually happen
Nov 23 2010 10:25AM
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reverendwrong
Posts: 3145 - Karma: 142
To be honest, I think that post was a troll.

Think of fake twitter accounts, how easy would it be for someone to sign up for a blog, put their name as Jon, link it to Jon's actual blog and go a trollin'?


Jon is intelligent, yeah he has said stupid things before, but this is just basic sentence structure and word choice, not Jon IMO.

plus I'm 90% sure Jon and Jacob are good friends (correct me if I'm wrong Jacob) so that comment just seems out of place.

But seriously, people are trolling not just /b/ and NS but random blogs as well? I don't get some people.
Nov 23 2010 10:26AM
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i.ski.NC
Posts: 572 - Karma: 18
This.
Nov 23 2010 10:48AM
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technique.
Posts: 1538 - Karma: 308
good to see intelligent, well spoken pros.

that whole idea was really impressive
Nov 23 2010 11:13AM
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jksl
Posts: 12726 - Karma: 737
they should just make a format where you can't repeat a trick in a big air and get like 4 jumps or something. that would get interesting.
Nov 23 2010 11:18AM
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luc
Posts: 1000 - Karma: 607
give em 5 jumps and 4 count...cause sometimes citybigair setups (specially the snow and landing transition) are crazy, and falling 1 of 5 is pretty normal!
Nov 23 2010 11:30AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
That's been done before at least partially, in some contest you had 3 tries, 2 best count, can't repeat a trick even if you fell on it.

Nov 23 2010 11:35AM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
When was the last time I told you I loved you?

As far as this "post".....gimme a fucking break. How many thousands of dollars have you earned doing a right side dub cork 1260 mute, Jacob? 50? 100? How bout YOU put on a different comp, or better yet, how bout YOU stop traveling to all 474 pre-season huck-a-thons, and set an example? Your career depends on these events, and you're shitting on them?

You can't be an active participant and an objector. Do something different, speak with your actions, or shut your mouth, do a spinny flippy and collect your check.
Nov 23 2010 11:59AM
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EMK
Posts: 1632 - Karma: 669
A touch hypocritical considering how that blog post would have fitted quite nicely on Brobomb.

It would be sick if Jacob put on a comp with a fresh format.
Nov 23 2010 12:06PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
There was nothing hypocritical about it, as I don't compete in big air comps. Just because I agree with the sentiment, doesn't mean I can reconcile that with the source.
Nov 23 2010 12:09PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
My tune will change when the words are followed by definitive action.
Nov 23 2010 12:10PM
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MrLarsen
Posts: 583 - Karma: 16
The street league actually had a total of 24 invited skaters, with only 7 advancing to finals.

For those interested check out http://streetleague.com/ pretty sure you will be able to watch the complete stops to see how the format works.
Nov 23 2010 12:13PM
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EMK
Posts: 1632 - Karma: 669
Sure, maybe. But do you honestly think everyone that does the comps thinks the format is not flawed. It could just take one of them to make the organisers realise they need to change.
I know if i could do dub12s and win money with them I would regardless of whether i felt there could be a better way to go about it. It wouldn't stop me from making a suggestion of that better way, and that's all Jacob has done.
To say Jacob has shat on the comps is unfair, he only pointed out what everyone knew. Instead of simply complaining about it actually made a suggestion of what to do to fix the problem.
Nov 23 2010 12:20PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,746
I hear what you're saying. You're right, the majority of competitors probably dislike the format very much.

My issue is that an athlete doesn't have to compete in any contest that he finds questionable, and it's more than a TAD hypocritical to simultaneously engage in something that you criticize. What would have more of an effect? A blog post....followed by another appearance at a similar comp....or a "boycott" and a rallying of others to do the same in an effort to leverage change?

I'm a cynic....I know that....but tell me that that post doesn't read like someone who wants to have and eat his cake? As in, he wants the image of unique skier artist guy, but he wants the paycheck of gymnast spinny guy.

I understand that these guys earn a living skiing. But, I also understand that the most ambitious, visionary, and talented athletes find ways to make money whilst skiing on their own terms. Pollard. Tanner. Jon. Candide. And on and on. If Jacob doesn't like the way things are, he should be the catalyst for change...that's not what this was.

You don't think it's a tad disingenuous or suspect for Jacob, a guy who's career literally revolves around winning competitions JUST like this one, to be the "voice of opposition"? He's biting the hand that feeds him. Jacob postures himself as Mr. Counterculture, freespirit, my life isn't just about skiing, and this little rant is one more example of him inciting drama....for what? For attention.

Look at his "Goodbye forever NS" thread. Look at the fallout around his Brogan lampooning, look at his Obama sharpie X Games fiasco...the list goes on.

Jacob....make this thread a year or two ago when you won all of these things. When you do it after losing, it looks like you're a sore loser.
Nov 23 2010 12:33PM
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Twig
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 57,058
Um what? Surely an active participant is the best placed person to object? Obviously Jacob goes to the comps to collect his cheque, if I could make the kind of money you are talking about hucking a trick on a city jump I would, and so would you. Doing so doesn't mean he thinks thats the best way the comp could work.

Jacob just won one of the big air comps this year and he's suggesting a format that wouldn't necessarily suit him. I wouldn't have thought he has the biggest bag of dubs out there. I like the idea of a street league style comp, cos as much as its the opposite of what I skate for, I enjoyed watching SL.

and this "this little rant is one more example of him inciting drama....for what? For attention." isn't that pretty much the philosophy behind at least half of what is on Brobomb (not hating, I love reading the blog).

Nov 23 2010 12:38PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,018
don't you have some money from winnings? why don't you put together a contest, this sounds like a great idea.

and it should be like street league, not just one feature but many features that different riders will be successful in. like a wallride, stairset, bigjump, and knuckle butters
Nov 23 2010 12:41PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Actually, you know what's funny? I think it was last year, when he especially called out some scaffold big air event organizers in...Barcelona? Why? Because they didn't invite him to the competition. Hehehe...
Nov 23 2010 12:50PM
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Jacob_W
Posts: 812 - Karma: 1,387
casual - i dont really think you get it.

here's a hundred kids whining about the contest format in these city big airs, that they reward "jump jocks" and "one trick ponies". guess what? I am proposing and idea (that's not even mine to begin with), to change all this. this is not just for you to read. this is for everyone involved as well. I got a comment from Rafael Regazzoni, who was the head judge in Zurich, London, Budapest and Stockholm + Sweet rumble in Norway next weekend. he was excited about this and I'm definitely going to talk to him about it as soon as I get the chance.

keep in mind, I'm not even proposing a change of format to suit myself better. I have a few big tricks, yes, but there are a bunch of other skiers out there that have an even bigger bag of tricks, that would easily beat me in a street league format. not to mention what would happen if there was a rail section as well.

if someone was to arrange a comp like this I would jump right on it, and probably work for weeks and months to get the tricks necessary dialled in. at the moment, to be totally frank - there's really no need to have a deep trick bag if you can do the same big air run and slopestyle run over and over again. and why would I boycott comps to make a point? first of all, that would be extremely unwise from a pure business perspective, and second, i still enjoy these comps. I dont really have a huge problem with them, I'm merely addressing the issues a lot of you on here and on other communities seem to have. I agree it's boring to watch but that's just the way it is.

I would love to make this change but I really don't consider myself a big enough "pro super star" to put on my own comp and expect the whole scene to show up and throw down. maybe after I, as youre saying, have won all of these events I would do that.

we'll see though, maybe someone else in the pro circus thinks this sounds like a great idea and we'll put something on together. I would be more than happy to make this happen!
Nov 23 2010 12:58PM
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