Is this true?

Posts: 366 - Karma: 310

Karma: 310

Posts: 366

Loner

today i was thinking about skiing and all of the different rotations, then i thought of backflips and flips in general and how hard it is to figure how hard too throw them at first, I then came too this conclusion

to figure out the speed of the rotation for the flip it would be the same as if you were spinning a 3 over the same jump because they both have 360 degrees of rotation in them, just on different axis's, and the same amount of air time since it is on the same jump

then i sat there for the next 30 minutes trying too comprehend what i just thought of because it seems way to simple but it makes sense at the same time

Nov 9 2010 2:56AM

0 0

1337

Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,000

Karma: 29,000

Posts: 31038

Basement Dweller

wat

Nov 9 2010 2:59AM

0 0

Balto

Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,398

Karma: 4,398

Posts: 25985

@th1337

Nov 9 2010 3:16AM

0 0

th3Mailman

Posts: 222 - Karma: 18

Karma: 18

Posts: 222

Loner

or you could just braap and do a flip.

Nov 9 2010 3:26AM

0 0

dubaiski

Posts: 961 - Karma: 37

Karma: 37

Posts: 961

Insane

you have to throw flips harder because when you spin you spin around your most concentrated line of mass but when you flip you have to lift your boots and skis up meaning more energy is put in.

Nov 9 2010 3:43AM

0 0

Doug.

Posts: 2236 - Karma: 457

Karma: 457

Posts: 2236

Addict

For some reason i lost it when i saw this.

Nov 9 2010 3:43AM

0 0

Bar_Down

Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395

Karma: 395

Posts: 5896

No Life

naw bro, its not true because of gauss' theorem

Nov 9 2010 3:53AM

0 0

ryman

Posts: 113 - Karma: 21

Karma: 21

Posts: 113

Pro

while your argument is true in that if you rotate a flip at the same speed as a spin (for arguments sake let's say 360 degrees/second) both will take the same duration (1 second). But as others have pointed out, to achieve that same velocity a lot more energy is required for a flip, meaning you will likely rotate flips slower. thus more air time will be required for a flip.

Nov 9 2010 6:09AM

0 0

AlexF

Posts: 271 - Karma: 206

Karma: 206

Posts: 271

Loner

^This.

You have a lot more mass located further away from your center of gravity (e.g. head at one end; skis, boots and bindings at the other) when flipping. As a result you need to put a lot more rotational momentum into a flip to get it round as fast as a spin.

This has nothing to do with divergence/Gauss' theorem as this is a rotational inertia/momentum problem, not an energy flow one.

Nov 9 2010 8:16AM

0 0

SmoKinSkier

Posts: 5501 - Karma: 20

Karma: 20

Posts: 5501

No Life

hahaha....Its not you I washed my screen with mountain dew when i saw it for the first time and I cant pinpoint what about it either

Nov 9 2010 8:30AM

0 0

i.ski.NC

Posts: 572 - Karma: 18

Karma: 18

Posts: 572

Ridiculous

Basically what everyone else said.

If you're talking about speed of the rotation, then you are correct. If you are talking about the energy required to have the same speed of rotation, then you need more energy in a flip than in a 3.

Nov 9 2010 8:33AM

0 0

nutsnbolts

Posts: 1110 - Karma: 16

Karma: 16

Posts: 1110

Insane

you gotta factor in the coefficient of friction...

Nov 9 2010 9:08AM

0 0

manzear

Posts: 843 - Karma: 849

Karma: 849

Posts: 843

Insane

Back in the day when freestylers would compete in aerials contests, the degree of difficulty for a 360 was the same as a backflip......correct me if I am wrong.

Nov 9 2010 9:53AM

0 0

I_Am_Mod

Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753

Karma: 3,753

Posts: 13214

Crazy Fool

it's all about angular momentum dude, you correct it mid air by timing when to grab and when to release your grab this is why you can do superman frontflips ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_momentum

Nov 9 2010 9:58AM

0 0

nutsnbolts

Posts: 1110 - Karma: 16

Karma: 16

Posts: 1110

Insane

NOOOOOOOPE, your wong.

air friction (or drag) is fluid friction

you also need to factor in the friction between your skis and the snow

Nov 9 2010 10:12AM

0 0

I_Am_Mod

Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753

Karma: 3,753

Posts: 13214

Crazy Fool

you also need to factor the curvature of the earth and the orientation of earth and moon !

Nov 9 2010 10:14AM

0 0

danbrown

Posts: 11932 - Karma: 21,775

Karma: 21,775

Posts: 11932

Crazy Fool

I don't know about your theory, but backflips are easier than 360s.

Nov 9 2010 10:15AM

0 0

103859264

Posts: 465 - Karma: 145

Karma: 145

Posts: 465

Ridiculous

ya...i dont really think about it,,, i just kinda know

Nov 9 2010 10:50AM

0 0

ryman

Posts: 113 - Karma: 21

Karma: 21

Posts: 113

Pro

ummmm, what do you think air resistance is? hint, fric...

Nov 9 2010 11:14AM

0 0

Slettalaen

Posts: 366 - Karma: 120

Karma: 120

Posts: 366

Loner

think about the difference between a backflip and a 360 on the ground... 360 is easy, you can even do 720, but backflip is harder, and no way you can do double

Nov 9 2010 12:38PM

0 0

Mr.Huck

Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893

Karma: 14,893

Posts: 6096

No Life

To OP: Are you a ski pole?

Have you ever been bored and tried to toss your ski pole to do a back flip and stick straight into the snow? It's pretty hard to do it consistently because the rotation has to match perfectly with the time in the air. Too many variables are at play to look at it the way you are trying to. Instead of trying get your rotation exactly right, you want to set yourself up so you can slow or speed up your rotation and be able to recognize when to do it.

If you hit a jump completely stiff and tried to back flip from a full butter like Mr. Hornbeck:

You might do a back flip and you might do 3, but you won't have any control over how many. You will be a ski pole. In a back flip
I think about throwing my hips forward instead of my shoulders back. That way you can speed up or slow down your rotation by tucking or extending.

Nov 9 2010 1:50PM

0 0

dugger.

Posts: 227 - Karma: 309

Karma: 309

Posts: 227

Loner

stop thinking, test it

Nov 9 2010 1:52PM

0 0

hollygrove

Posts: 7845 - Karma: 93

Karma: 93

Posts: 7845

Crazy Fool

Think of it logically. You can easily spin a 720 off teeny tiny jumps, but there's no way you could ever double backflip the same jump that you just micro 720'd. So yes, the degree of rotation is the same, however when applied to real life it doesnt make sense.

Nov 9 2010 1:58PM

0 0

Mr.Huck

Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,893

Karma: 14,893

Posts: 6096

No Life

2nd pic failed.

Here I knew that I didn't have enough speed so I had to pull in my legs to complete the flip.

Nov 9 2010 2:00PM

0 0

bdowning

Posts: 1630 - Karma: 243

Karma: 243

Posts: 1630

Insane

2 words.

Epic Fail.

Sigh....

Nov 9 2010 2:04PM

0 0

NGallucci

Posts: 81 - Karma: 8

Karma: 8

Posts: 81

Wannabe

i see it dude haha the flip and the 360 need the same amount of air time

Nov 9 2010 3:31PM

0 0

thesheik

Posts: 1488 - Karma: 18

Karma: 18

Posts: 1488

Insane

think of it like you're moving in a circle. the circle created by your backflip is a lot bigger than the one by a 3. so even though they're both 360 degrees, you have to move a lot more to spin the circumference of the backie, so it takes longer.

Nov 9 2010 3:34PM

0 0

RubberSoul

Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642

Karma: 14,642

Posts: 11249

Crazy Fool

you can answer your question by thinking about the fact that you need a significantly bigger jump to do a double or triple backie than to do a 7 or 10

Nov 9 2010 3:49PM

0 0