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Armada tell Rossignol to cease and desist.

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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
Obviously not the little guy anymore.



Sorry if this is a repost, I searched and found nothing.

Oct 25 2010 11:45PM
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84891jnf92048
Posts: 11552 - Karma: 2,550
just realised this while rambling off topic in another thread: volant never claimed ownership to rocker, nobody claims ownership to camber, k2 never claimed ownership to sidecut. so why the fuck does armada claim ownership of a simple ski design? communication and business between companies in the ski industry is are going downhill, fast.
Oct 27 2010 1:27AM
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PeterWojnar
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 678
I'll keep wearing my Armada hoodie because it keeps me warm, not because I support the company. The ski industry is not nearly strong enough to support the douchebaggery of ski companies suing one another. I'm sure that everyone and their grandmother would like a monopoly over the market, but that's not how it works— as soon as somebody has a good idea in the ski industry, everybody's all over it, because for one company to progress while the others do nothing would be suicide. Surely Armada cannot be so vein as to believe they are the best company out there? It's a matter of personal opinion, but they just willingly lost a share of their market.
Oct 27 2010 1:33AM
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SNOWPARKCHlLE
Posts: 2047 - Karma: 6,727
this is why this problem appear now!cauze armada is going big everyday..(.im not supporting armada) !!but is what is....i think rossignol is doing this right know for appear in the market again and increase their sells..but they are in his right!.....but why know??
Oct 27 2010 1:52AM
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Way*Mo
Posts: 623 - Karma: 1,917
Lawsuits over patents happen countless times everyday in all corners of industry. All of you spouting false altruistic statements about how it is 'uncool' and disrespectful of Armada to do this need to study how capitalistic markets work. They obviously think its in the best interest of their company to pursue legal action. If they were not the first to really patent this "technology" it will come out in court and they will lose. As a buyer in a free market you also have the choice to not buy their products, but don't whine about how they are not respecting their competitors. Bottom line is that the ski industry is a business based on a leisure time activity, not an everybody is equal commune. Vote with your pocketbook if you feel that strongly.
Oct 27 2010 1:56AM
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dutch1
Posts: 465 - Karma: 11
There isn't much of a point in spending the time, energy and money in filing a patent if you don't intend to protect your investment when your product becomes challenged.

That being said, I don't like the fact that a few more civil litigators will be able to take their families to the alps because of two bickering ski companies.
Oct 27 2010 2:15AM
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Static
Posts: 8491 - Karma: 4,058
The court costs will just be passed down to us, fuck.
Oct 27 2010 2:19AM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
.
Oct 27 2010 2:23AM
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jennyboots
Posts: 114 - Karma: 9

I believe, Jake Burton tried to do a similiar move many many years ago in Snowboarding.  Tried to sue mostly everybody in the snowboard industry and he failed. 

Oct 27 2010 5:15AM
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rostog
Posts: 202 - Karma: 16
prepare for prices to go up from all companies involved to pay for this waste of time argument...
Oct 27 2010 5:38AM
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jennyboots
Posts: 114 - Karma: 9
actually.  appears something fairly similiar is happening in snowboarding right now.  http://www.angrysnowboarder.com/?p=7680
Oct 27 2010 5:45AM
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,289
Thats really fucked up. So now all ski companies with taper will be sued? I know whitedote already got a letter.
Oct 27 2010 6:02AM
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sick-as-aids
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,007
know and now are two different words for the next time you post
Oct 27 2010 6:15AM
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schwinger
Posts: 147 - Karma: 10
attempt to 'weed out' the competition in order to monopolise the industry
Oct 27 2010 7:32AM
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ORDEAL
Posts: 6386 - Karma: 75
/boycott
Oct 27 2010 7:55AM
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Chronic_
Posts: 1730 - Karma: 1,601
i just cant get over how much this bums me out
Oct 27 2010 8:00AM
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dotsbitch
Posts: 1 - Karma: 10
We've not had a letter mate.

Whats really cool is all the small companies have been talking and sticking together.

Let Armada and Rossignol fight...... We'll just continue to make skis. All the smaller brands do it for passion not to pay fecken lawyers to profit.
Oct 27 2010 8:28AM
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freeskibum82
Posts: 6355 - Karma: 5,055
in before a CAPLOCK RESPONSE FROM THALL...

"armada has got REAL skis with REAL camber and REAL rocker"
Oct 27 2010 8:37AM
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TheBigD
Posts: 250 - Karma: 10
here's the only rational i can figure out...
that armada is launching this patten war with rossignol because when armada started in 2003(or 4?) they paid rossignol to use their molds and press, ie paying for superior knowledge. Now, years later and with the armada as an industry leader they simply don't want to give out their dimensions to a company they once paid a health sum to, essentially for the same reason (with modern engineering programs they can likely replicate the exact ski). The ski industry, it's a multi-billion dollar industry where companies compete for profit, not some fun loving brotherhood. in many ways i'm surprised that more people aren't taking armada's side in what is a david vs. goliath battle, it can't be easy staying core.
Oct 27 2010 8:38AM
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,289
Well then i must have misunderstood my friend. Thats what he told me.

And support the indie brands! Their skis are made with love, not in a factory in china.
Oct 27 2010 9:10AM
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PaleCelery
Posts: 7228 - Karma: 608
http://www.gnolls.org/557/alpine-ski-patent-slap-fight-armada-vs-rossignol-vs-dps-vs-the-rest-of-the-skiing-world/
Oct 27 2010 12:26PM
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Newschool_Pope
Posts: 2473 - Karma: 267
i dont get why armada is suing rossi?
atomic makes skis (bentchetlers) which are alot more similar to the JJs than the S7.
i think theyre even similar/same molds since they are produced in the same factory.

Oct 27 2010 12:39PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
well it sounds like rossi had no intention of enforcing the patent, other than now against Armada as a counter-suit.
Oct 27 2010 12:44PM
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danbrown
Posts: 11932 - Karma: 21,775
So you're saying that, since Line and K2 are made in a factory in China, they aren't made with love?
Oct 27 2010 12:47PM
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Session
Posts: 5316 - Karma: 21,354
Armada is not really a "David" they aren't some small core ski company at this point in the game. Rossi would never have blinked in Armada's direction when it came to patents. But they fucked with the bull, now they get the horns. I could honestly care less about Rossi or Armada. But I wonder how this could end up affecting smaller brands that I want to buy. I might have one day bought Armada ski's. Now it's not even an option. This only stifles the industry.

Anyone familiar with the paintball industry can tell you what happens when a company takes out BS patents that try and stranglehold the industry. It has happened and that company is now bankrupt. In the information age these kinds of practices can hurt you when your market is really internet savy,

Oct 27 2010 12:48PM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 505
Way off topic, but Heath, K2 Poacher twin tip was around since 1996. Salomon 1080 was released Fall of 1998. The boys got their first prototype after the Big Air at the first ever US OPEN.

Tristan, LINE didn't make twin tip skis until 1999. At that point they released teh 1260 a short (160-ish?) symmetrical twin and the Ostness Dragon a 190cm-something twin.
Oct 27 2010 1:05PM
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rYb
Posts: 944 - Karma: -12
lol smartparts
Oct 27 2010 1:12PM
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PaleCelery
Posts: 7228 - Karma: 608
I think this whole thing will be thrown out because there are so many different companies claiming that they were the first, when each and everyone based their designs (at least in some part) off previous designs. How would you even know what a ski should measure out to if you hadn't skied other brands skis.
Oct 27 2010 1:15PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218

I've not read all of this - but my first thoughts were that Line could clean up with this, considering that pretty much every technological advance in ski design can somehow be traced back to Line ski's...  early taper for eg ....  first seen on the Franky B's (first generation)....  unless im crazy mistaken (a possibility)

Oct 27 2010 1:17PM
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skodeo7
Posts: 14949 - Karma: 9,234
My buddy had a pair of Poachers and I wanted 'em sooo bad. They were so damn noodly but still the coolest thing ever back in the day. I had to save up for a whole year to buy my first pair of wins (the OG Enemies with red, white and blue bases).
Oct 27 2010 1:18PM
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jensen
Posts: 2575 - Karma: 1,250
This.  It is funny how overlooked the K2 Poacher is for being the first twin tip.  The 1080 was popularized because the New Canadian Airforce brought it into the spotlight.

Line's "true twin tip" referred to an equal tip and tail height, which, at the time, was unusual.

Although, I  have heard acro skiers had some form of twin tips as far back as the 70s.
Oct 27 2010 1:18PM
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sagaRIP
Posts: 287 - Karma: 12
*Couldn't care less.

I do believe this will help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw
Oct 27 2010 1:22PM
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Alkyy
Posts: 2839 - Karma: 149
good day to have always been a rossi fan boy...Hope they win
Oct 27 2010 1:25PM
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Malczyk
Posts: 1433 - Karma: 1,880
uhh ohh... Olaf the Great is screwed!


Click for larger image

Point here is it's all been done before. Hell, Davinci drew helicopters! I can see trying to defend something you truly believe you came up with first but everyone take a chill pill and relax.
Oct 27 2010 1:25PM
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PaleCelery
Posts: 7228 - Karma: 608
While your response is somewhat sarcastic, I find it interesting seeing what you have to say since you are the marketing guy for line.

And I agree, armada needs to learn their place.
Oct 27 2010 1:28PM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,052
off topic, but I really like when thought provoking things happen and truly intelligent people come out of the woodwork in this community. it always makes for an interesting read.
Oct 27 2010 1:30PM
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Malczyk
Posts: 1433 - Karma: 1,880
ha, that's my day job, I'm just a full time sarcastic dude who's passionate about skiing. just adding my 2 cents (enter disclaimer that my opinion doesn't reflect line's. Line's opinion: no comment)
Oct 27 2010 1:32PM
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wear_their_wings
Posts: 6 - Karma: 10
This is not the first time Armada has tried this ! This past summer they tried the exact same thing on a new ski brand called Storm Skis. Claiming a patent on a feature used on one of the skis in the Storm range. Obviously thought they would test the water by bullying a small company first !
Oct 27 2010 1:38PM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
Oh I know there were earlier twins, I just remember reading somewhere that they filed a patent for skis with the tail equal to the tip as far as rise (height) goes. I think there was a patent pending on their site circa the Skogens with the green bomber topsheets. They may have just been trying to protect themselves though, who knows if it ever went through.

They certainly weren't the first to make twin tips, I mean hell the Olin Mark IV came out in what, '74?


Oct 27 2010 1:45PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
...assuming Armada isn't struggling themselves...

but seriously, it's not a big deal. Also considering most of the kids in this thread aren't old/educated enough to read and understand a legal document, saying "fuck Armada" doesn't hold much water.
Oct 27 2010 1:58PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
THERES NO LOVE IN CHINA!!!!!!

So much ignorance, random shit throwing, "facts" being tossed around, and a whole heap of kids with no legal knowledge, or the ability to even read the patents or legal papers.
Oct 27 2010 2:02PM
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,289
I refuse too believe that people live in china.

THEY ARE ALL ROBOTS!!!!
AND ROBOTS CANT LOVE!!!!

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Oct 27 2010 2:10PM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 505
Modern twin tip made with the intentions of today's skiers. Post 70's freestyle, such as the Olin Mark IV which was designed for ballet and landing baranis and flairs and such. This one is from the 1930's. It's all cyclical. Some old wooden skis had massive tip rocker too.

Click for larger image



Oct 27 2010 2:34PM
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chardi
Posts: 5040 - Karma: 59
i've been considering buying 2 skis this year, one of them being the thall. should i not support armada anymore? because up until reading this thread i have loved armada, and still do, but if this is really bad, i won't buy from them. i don't want armada to be the next grenade, but what does ns think? because i feel like i don't know enough about the situation, but i have been having trouble deciding which skis to buy and this would certainly make it easier.
Oct 27 2010 3:29PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
Wow.

You know about as much or more than the general NS pop does, not much.

Make an educated guess based on your own morales or business understanding, and stop listening to whiny kids who don't know what they are so upset about.

I will still buy armada, even though I never have paid for a product from them.
Oct 27 2010 3:33PM
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chardi
Posts: 5040 - Karma: 59
correct me if i'm wrong, i'm not trying to say i know whats going one, hence why i'm asking for help, but armada is claiming the rights to park rocker, or 'elf shoe technology' that they use in the alpha and the halo, and are asking for royalties from companies (rossignol being one of them) that uses a similar design. or something like that. again, correct me if i'm wrong.

i'm just trying to figure out whats going on, so that i can make 'an educated guess' about the situation.

and when you say you have never paid for a product from them... do you still own product? (that was won, etc)
Oct 27 2010 3:40PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I'm calling it:

one ski movie next year will be called "Cease and Desist".
Oct 27 2010 3:42PM
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pow_pow2
Posts: 161 - Karma: 19
RIGHT ON!
Oct 27 2010 3:44PM
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Keenan_Jones
Posts: 436 - Karma: 175
Why can't everyone just get along!?!?!
Oct 27 2010 3:48PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
No. Not park rocker. It's the exact dimensions and profiles of their skis, as opposed to just "we invented rocker" or some other vague blanket technology name. The patent lists exact degree measurements, widths, lengths, and construction materials.

I can almost guarantee that every ski out there from a major company has been patented. If your product was copied (In any industry, it's funny people like to act like skiing is a love filled and free sport, so every corporation should be also. HA! it's about making money, sorry guys!) dimension by dimension, and you spent countless hours designing, and DOCUMENTING your work and designs in a patent, why wouldn't you protect that investment?

The only Armada gear I have owned held up well, and I slanged it for $ when in need. They consistently put out great products and have a sick team, and good management.

I don't know why I am defending them because I don't really give a shit, but this whole thread is funny.
Oct 27 2010 3:54PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Yup. Sorry to break it to you, but this whole "one love" attitude in the ski industry is its biggest flaw. It is an attempt to justify delayed payment, nebulous and/or unwritten agreements, and generally poor business practices.
Oct 27 2010 3:59PM
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