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Arizona's new immigration law
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anybody heard about this? seems pretty ridiculous i heard it enabled state authorities to apprehend people based on racial profiling. so basically if you look mexican they're gonna pull you over or give you a hard time if they see you anywhere. not sure if thats really what this is about or not but if so thats fucked. couldnt find any good articles except cnn blogs from that guy anderson cooper. fuck him .
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agreed.
yeah well im sorry if imma offend a bunch of people with this statement.
but youre hear, learn the native language dammit.
if i ever move to another country ill learn their language. im not gonna expect them to accommodate me.
dont get all "we dont have a language bullshit on me" when my relatives came over from Germany (some still alive) they made damn sure their kids grew up learning English, why? because its what everyone in the country speaks.
inb4 someone calls me a bigot. lolololool
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2 things.
1) we dont have a national language here actually. english may be the majority, but we dont have a nationally dictated language.
2) Think about how hard most of these people are working. Making barely minimum wage, when are they really going to get the chance to learn the language, aside from what they pick up at work you know? Idk about you but when im taking care of my family, working a 14 hour day, im not gonna really have time to go take english classes.
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haha i know we dont have a national language.
2 learn it at work. granted i only work part time with the illegal crew. but everyone who works there has learned to speak spanish. and these are not highly educated people. these are highschool grads, and in some cases dropouts. they learned spanish just fine by working with mexicans. i dont see any reason mexicans cant pick up english if they wanted to. they are immersed in it, so there really shouldnt be a reason they cant pick it up. im not saying you need to be an english major, but a basic usage of the language would be acceptable. not to mention it could potentially further their career. but if i had a nickel for every time i heard "idk what youre talking about" from a mexican in regards to telling them something ide be rich. AKA IMO some use it as a crunch, they get to slough responsibility for their actions when they claim to not comprehend what you have told them.
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Military translation classes are taught by native speakers that understand very VERY Little English.
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were in fucking america you goddamn communist!
why the hell should we go out of our way to communicate with people THAT SHOULDN'T EVEN BE HERE?
if i went to aregentina, and they didnt speak english, id use my spanish speaking skills to communicate, out of fucking respect.
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i agree, im decent at spanish because ive gone a couple times and i tried to learn enough to communicate before i went each time. if i fucking lived there id speak it like a pro.
i went to germany for 2 weeks and i learned a good amount of german before i went, i only came across a couple people who couldnt speak english and i could get my point across fine, and if i lived there, the first thing id do is learn the language.
there is no reason why we should go out of our way to learn a language so that the people who are here illegally can have an easier time. fuck that.
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legal immigrants shouldnt be here? not speaking english isnt exclusive to illegals.
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no. they shouldnt. and your right its not exclusive to illegal's, but the majority of people in the U.S. that dont speak english are illegal's by far.
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LEGAL immigrants? read what i wrote.
and id love to see your numbers there, i want actual statistics, not anecdotal garbage.
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why the hell should they not be expected to speak english is what i wanna know.
numbers dont matter, its a bottom line, we speak english here, not spanish.
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i dont have any statistics, im just guessing, but if im wrong id like to see actual statistics too. i dont see legal immigrants that cant speak english outnumbering illegal immigrants, but maybe im wrong.
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ok then, how would you feel if thousands of people per year flooded into canada, speaking, i dunno, russian or someshit?
does that make sense to you?
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they estimate 29 million people above the age of 5 speak spanish at home according to the census bureau (not clear if this includes illegal immigrants or not, but i dont think so). thats about 75% of the hispanic population in this country.
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honestly, i think you just dont understand, because you're canadian, and thus, dont have this problem like we do.
myself, i speak spanish, but not for immigrants thats for damn sure.
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going back to my situation.
why did my swede and german relatives learn english?
and gnartron hiding behind a law just because its there is useless if the law is bunk. its a cop out of an argument IMO
thats like me saying "well it doesnt matter what i think of AZ's immigration law, because it already exists" so why are we having this debate? lol
unless maybe you answered the question of how you would feel if illegals were coming into your country without a certain level of assimilation. lol maybe i missed it.
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Thats bull, just because he's not there by the border expeirencing it doesn't mean he can't have an idea of whats going on. I think he undesrtands fully well whats going on.
Dont try to destroy his statements by telling him he doesn't know whats up.
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lol, i'm glad i hate mexicans
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standards were different back then
im not saying that hispanics shouldnt learn english. and they will over time.
but talk to any major employer of spanish speakers, and they will tell you that theyve learned spanish, because it just makes sense.
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they dont, thats the problem.
my employer is fluent in spanish by necessity.
they have one mexican that speaks broken english and the rest dont speak it.
speaking from 110% personal experience.
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Your realitives learned it because they were such a small miniority, latino's, although a minority, have a much larger quantity.
And no, he says that in the way of the language law, which is far different from a law that permits racial profiling.
Getting back to hte real problem of the law, its god damn racial profiling. I doubt anyone on NS carries around their birth certificate and etc. Also it is unconstitutional, article 4, section 1.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizrures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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so if i get pulled over for speeding and dont have my drivers licenses i should plead with the cop under the guise of the article 4?
i dont know about you, but from the time of 16 on i dont go anywhere without my wallet.
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so when a cop pulls you over, its unconstitutional to be asked for your license?
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thats not even remotely close to the same thing.
when you get pulled over FOR A TRAFFIC VIOLATION and asked for your license, you have been seen VIOLATING A TRAFFIC LAW.
you cannot simply look at someone, and know they are here illegally.
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if youre here illegally, you've been violating an immigration law.
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I disagree. Washington has a ton of (legal) migrant workers. Ever been to Yakima?
Not to mention the inherent value of knowing a second language in the business world. Plus, cultural demographics are changing quickly. Soon China will be the #1 English-speaking country and Spanish will top English as the most-spoken language in the United States.
Exceptionalism is not the answer. I'm tired of American arrogance--why are we so much better than the rest of the world? I'm a US citizen, and frankly, we aren't better than the rest of the world anymore. Sooner or later we're just going to accept that we need to move on from the exceptionalism.
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A big difference between the two is the visual aspect of it. You cant KNOW someone is here illegally by looking at them for a few seconds, you can know someone is violating a trafic law by watchign them.
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and how do you look at someone and go "oh you are here illegally"
you cannot. period.
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Then look at it like this. I am from Bellingham. We have had an HUGE influx of Russians. Guess what they do. They fucking learn English. Their kids go to a school and learn English and come home, mom and dad learn English at work and from small classes at the technical college and then grandma and grandpa end up getting taught from the kids who are in school.
Why can't Mexicans... legal ones at least... do that?
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So every single one of them can learn english? and their parents are home enough to learn english from their CHILDREN?
This all banks on the facts of
A: Children can teach adults, because not every adult will work in an english speaking job
B: These children will easily be taught english, even though in several states, English as a Second Language (ESL) classes fail
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They at least try unlike certain other immigrants.
And I said GRANDPARENTS learn from the kids. Not the parents dumbass.
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And I said what if the parents dont work in an english speaking job ya douche bag? Learn to just talk instead of insult.
And you are making a Bandwagon logical fallacy. By simply saying and following what a few people have said of thta some illegal immigrants and legal immigrants aren't learning english, none are, which is not true.
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Do you live in Bellingham like I do? No, thought not. The only non-English speaking job around here is the berry fields in the summer and no Russian works there. They all work at an engine factory or random industrial jobs like the refineries.
So please, before you say something like "do they work at english speaking jobs" realize that some places that is the ONLY jobs available.
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So every job YOU know of speaks english, therefore every job there also speaks english? That simply cannot be true, and you said yourself there are the berry fields and why cant a russian work tehre? how do you know? and I am realitvely sure you do not know the entire demograph of jobs in your area.
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Once again you talk like you yourself knows everything. The berry fields... they don't even hire high school kids because all the Mexicans work there or at the local Mexican restaurant...
And I am damn sure I know the demographics of the jobs in my area too. Look up Bellingham, WA on a map/online idiot. You will understand. There is the oil refineries, the aluminum plant, and outside of that you either work for the city or the local construction companies. So please, don't act like you know the demographics of where I live and how my town works dumb shit.
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illegal mexicans or legal immigrants?
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You had 75,150 in July 1, 2008 and if you follow the trends that have been going for the past years of your town, you probably have close to 100 thousand if not above that. I can garuntee you that you dont not know every job that is there, and that every job a person works is in a english speaking environment.
And quit just calling me a dumb fuck, its getting annoying.
And I am saying you dont know everything because that is impossible
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unless you keep your passport/birth certificate in your wallet, it doesn't do you any good.
And what about Woozy's post & Judge Napolitano noting the conflict between Miranda rights and being arrested under new AZ law, do you have the right to remain silent when asked if you were born in the country?
Current stop & identify laws only grant the police the right to ascertain your name, DOB,and address.
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Our town is so small and only 10 minutes from the Canadian border... which do you think?
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So, I know everything? Sweet.
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lol i was just curious. because people who complain about illegal immigrants taking jobs but dont report the employers... thats just stupid
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I am sure we have a couple around town but thing is if they are illegal they are probably in their 70s now.
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its funny that this is actually Cherokee, because i can trace my family linage back to the trail of tears.
in a perfect world the US wouldnt have done what they did to "my people" but reality is reality,(and if i am one thing it is a realist) this nation speaks english (predominately) and using my life experiences; the members of my family and extended family who have joined the present day vs the ones who cling to the past. live drastically different lives. (have you ever been on a reservation?)
i also dont believe ive ever called for a national language.
again, i have no problem with people speaking different languages, but i also believe that once you come to this country you should atleast learn to speak the native tongue.
would you move to mexico and be bull headed about learning spanish or using it as the preferred form of communication?
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"The law requires state and local police to determine the status of people if there is "reasonable suspicion" that they are illegal immigrants and to arrest people who are unable to provide documentation proving they are in the country legally.
It also makes it a crime to transport someone who is an illegal immigrant and to hire day laborers off the street."
this is from reuters. but if you have information saying otherwise i have no reason to doubt you.
i would like to think my knowing my SS number by heart, and always having my license on me proves to a sufficient standard that i do belong in this country. (or here legally) but if you have concrete evidence that the law says otherwise ill obviously read it.
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