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March, 2024

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Fuck the health care bill

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theabortionator
Posts: 51257 - Karma: 157,277
Seriously
Mar 21 2010 6:43PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
and really, you have to be fair. in the end (after getting rich, and after pulling all of their relatives on top) it comes down to this for a president: be a good president, reduce taxes, subsidy entreprises and everything and make a deficit or try to do something, be an asshole for life and reduce the deficit.

i just know one very good example. like the only post-WWII politician in austria that has a positive reputation right now was kreisky. he built schools, hospitals and all that "social" stuff. but he made fat-ass debts and didnt care.



BOTTOM LINE: has there ever been a perfect president? one who lowered taxes and increased standards of living? no? i wonder why..





Mar 21 2010 9:16PM
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applejuice.
Posts: 5506 - Karma: 1,512
rowen?
Mar 21 2010 9:22PM
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Mykel
Posts: 1560 - Karma: 84
I have spent a while searching and can't seem to find a decent easY to read breakdown of what's in the bill. As common sense would dictate, it just means higher taxes. But i want to know exactly what's going on. Can someone help me out as to how this will positively/negatively affect me. 1) will my taxes go up? 2) I already have insurance through my company, will it affect the rates I pay now?
Mar 21 2010 9:24PM
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itsssyourboy
Posts: 255 - Karma: 10
i support the idea of universal/single payer healthcare but not so much the current bill with the "public option" which doesn't cut healthcare cost by a truly noticeable amount and includes mandatory healthcare requirements. for that reason i cant get behind obama on his plans for healthcare until truly becomes affordable.

p.s. capitalism isnt that amazing... peoples lives are more important than a slight income tax increase. if thats what it takes to get proper healtcare for all americans we need to sack up and do it.
Mar 21 2010 9:25PM
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Thenowhereman42
Posts: 5682 - Karma: 65
Well Clinton had a good approval rating and left with a budget surplus. Actually first president to do both of those things since Eisenhower. I was all for Hillary to win, for a Bill Clinton shadow government. Plus Bill Clinton is the ONLY American politician that actually makes fucking sense when he talks about the economy, and actually has really good, plausible solutions to economic problems.

We need more presidents like Washington and Teddy Roosevelt though, real men. Washington killed the British in their sleep on Christmas and Teddy saw Bigfoot.
Mar 21 2010 9:30PM
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Kornn101
Posts: 3534 - Karma: 25
Schwartz, D-Pennsylvania is the first person in the last half hour that didnt just spit stupid ass talking points. This is so absurd to watch both sides of the aisle are so annoying.

But I still feel this is not as terrible as Beck and co are making it out to be and get some good lulz from the far right nutjobs. i'm hoping for the best here
Mar 21 2010 9:31PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
seriously this could have been over hours ago without all this BS.

we all know where they all stand, just vote on the damn thing already.
Mar 21 2010 9:32PM
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itsssyourboy
Posts: 255 - Karma: 10
hahaha. but eventhough they were both great presidents i dont think even they could make somthing happen in this healthcare mess. decentralized party politics and people bitching about about how terrible the bill is make anything but gridlock next to impossible. a president who knows how to run the politcal machine and play the game in washington would be able to move congress more than a strong charismatic leader.
Mar 21 2010 9:38PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
you do realize that Romney did something VERY similar to this in MA dont you?

he is probably the last person on the right who should be voicing opposition to this.

however IMO there is a case to be made that this sort of thing is acceptable on the state level. however we are dealing with the monster otherwise known as the Federal Government.


anyway i see this as a real treat for the Republicans, if the country is opposed to this at the levels polls would have you believe. they have a sure fire campaign strategy in congressional races across the country. if the Republicans can get a cohesive message out, and run collectively as the party that will work to reverse this. they just may be in for a massive victory next year, and in the longer run as congressional and senate seats come up for re election.
Mar 21 2010 9:45PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,510
I hate Nancy Pelosi, but you took that quote way out of context. If you read it in the correct light she is saying the bill needs to be passed so we can see the EFFECT of the bill, not the actual contents.

Also I would love to hear where that quote on Obama came from because it seems to me that it is sarcastic out of frustration.
Mar 21 2010 9:45PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
i look like a noob!

House* and senate seats.

i actually do know how the government operates. lolz
Mar 21 2010 9:47PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
regarding #2
The Congressional Budget Office estimated that for those in the group market — those who get insurance through their employers — premiums would largely stay the same. The change in the average premium in the large group market would be between 0 percent and a 3 percent decrease, for instance, compared with where they’d be under current law in 2016. The average premiums for those who buy insurance on their own would go up, however, by 10 percent to 13 percent. The reason is that benefits would become a lot better for this market under the bill. Also, most people buying their own coverage would receive subsidies that make their net costs for these plans substantially lower than they otherwise would be.

as far as taxes, in theory no, unless you are making more than 250k.
Mar 21 2010 9:50PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
thats a big IF lol.


the other problem is this. elections arent till november. the american peoples attention span is incredibly short. unless this bill causes catastrophic problems by november, i doubt it will have much of an effect at all.


to be honest, incumbents on BOTH sides should be terrified, i have a feeling a lot of seats are simply going to go to the new guy, because people are sick of the person representing them now, regardless of whether they are a dem or rep.
Mar 21 2010 9:52PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,510
Oh really? Socialist? You have a very intricate view of socialism. From my understand, and presumably any other credible body that studies economics, we would still be a very capitalistic dominated country. Pretty hard to say a country is socialist when 1% own 43% of the financial wealth.

I am curious as to who here actually owns something and still isn't under the protection of their parents and their "dinner table" talks. Even like me, if you make as little as I do and am a college kid health insurance is pretty damn hard to afford. Now let's say I was to get hurt skiing and couldn't afford health insurance. By these awesome "I earned it" standards I would have to pay thousands of dollars and probably drop out of school. Thus my human capital would never accumulate to anything because of a misfortunate event. Spreading the wealth gap even further apart.
Mar 21 2010 9:55PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
i wouldnt hold your breath on taxes. lolz



maybe you have some sort of a retort to this. but why cant the government give individuals the tax credit that employers currently receive for insuring their employees? it would seem that it would make insurance infinitely more portable (something i agree is a problem) and would in some sense create a bit more of a market in choosing insurance. ide also like the ability to purchase insurance across state lines.

personally if they could hammer out something like what ive outlined above ide even bite my tongue and be ok with some sort of a universal coverage for the people that fall through the cracks.
Mar 21 2010 9:58PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
thats why i said in theory.

id like to think they will remain the same, but only time will tell, pretending that you know otherwise is simply speculation.

as far as why they dont credit individuals, i dont know. i would guess something along the lines of the fact that most people that provide their own insurance certainly are not poor, considering how expensive that is, and thus really dont "need" the credit. (i realize this need is entirely dependent on which side of the aisle you reside). the vast majority of people (i cant find the exact numbers but its HUGE) have their insurance provided either by their employer, or through medicare if they are old and retired. its incredibly expensive to purchase your own plans individually, so only the richest can really afford it.
but thats just a guess.

justin supporting any sort of universal coverage? SOCIALIST :P

as far as the state lines, i think ive mentioned before, that whats to stop companies from doing what they do now? as long as they continue to work together to raise rates across state lines, the same problems will still be there.
Mar 21 2010 10:04PM
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jeremy.g
Posts: 4931 - Karma: 459
people just need to get their heads out of their asses. our health care system is fucked. its completely driven by insurance companies want for profit. its pretty messed up if the main goal of healthcare is to make money, instead of save peoples lives and get them the treatment they need, instead of deny them coverage as often as they can, and pull a bunch of preexisting condition bullshit.
while this healthcare bill is nowhere near perfect its certainly a step in the right direction
Mar 21 2010 10:11PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
i think we misunderstood eachother a bit.

what i would like to happen is instead of getting insurance through your employer (like my family, im sure your family, and just about everyone does)

you would get a tax credit for the same amount, (or whatever, the numbers not that important) but it would be a big enough number that people who are already getting it through their employer could continue to get the same level of care at a minimum. (idk about you but overall im pleased with the care ive always gotten, everything, but yes it is expensive)

what families could do is take this say 10 thousand dollar tax credit, and go purchase their own insurance. (again just throwing a number out for an example) if the plan costs 12k then the family pays the 2k out of pocket. if the plan costs 8k well then you are covered, and will receive an 8k credit.


realistically what im advocating with removing the barriers of state lines would decrease price gouging. because now you are limited to purchasing insurance from providers inside your state. now you could buy insurance from any company, in any state. thereby increasing your (the consumer)'s options.


you know what. im a realist. the world will never be the way i want it to be, and im wiling to make equatable compromises. as it stands a universal option wouldn't be equatable in my eyes (yes i know there is no universal coverage in this bill)
Mar 21 2010 10:14PM
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vailsux.com
Posts: 1769 - Karma: 440
I would just like to know who thinks your health is your own responsibility.

I believe our access to medical services is an opportunity and not a right.

Who disagrees with what i have said and who agrees with me.
Mar 21 2010 10:25PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
you have to be careful though. private insurance companies are a business, and they are perfectly welcome to make a profit. where the problem lies is when profits come ahead of providing the services you are supposed to in a "fair" manner. making a profit is fine. making bank while dumping coverage, raising premiums, and screwing your policyholders over is not.
Mar 21 2010 10:26PM
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Dainsey
Posts: 2263 - Karma: 378
like john boehner just put it in the house

have you read the bill? HELL NO YOU HAVEN'T!
Mar 21 2010 10:27PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,510
So you're saying it is your responsibility not to get cancer, or the flu? Are you seriously saying this?

When my aunt died of Ovarian cancer who took perfectly good care of her health and was at the ripe age of 35 that was somehow her fault? I suggest you think a little harder about your views.

Yes there are people out there who don't care about their health but then there are people that suffer untimely incidents and this is somehow their fault?
Mar 21 2010 10:29PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
read my post regarding this earlier in the thread.

not to mention i ask this. if democrats havent possibly read it, how can republicans have, and thus know every minute problem with it? either its unreadable because its so long, and no one knows whats in it on EITHER side, or actually it is readable, and this is simply another BS talking point. one or the other, you cant have both.
Mar 21 2010 10:29PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2008/performers/industries/profits/

yeah dude, they are just raping the consumer.

28 Health Care: Insurance and Managed Care 6.2
Mar 21 2010 10:34PM
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MADDECENT
Posts: 5579 - Karma: 951
yeah and fuck other stuff too
Mar 21 2010 10:37PM
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THATS_STREET
Posts: 2250 - Karma: 33
i agree and disagree.

i agree in the sense of shit like obesity and problems that are caused by people just plain not taking care of themselves.smoking also. its preventable if you dont smoke chances are you wont get emphazima or lung cancer.

but i disagree because of some shit is genetic and people cant help that. and heath care right now is just too expensive for people to afford. cancer is another thing. other diseases that are not preventable.

unless your point is you want to kill off the poor which would happen.
 

i really think this country needs a revolution in eating healty. people are just too damn fat. fast food is garbage and people in this country eat too much of it. i think that has a lot to do with preventing doctors visits.
Mar 21 2010 10:37PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Hush my fellow citizens, the old people rise and stumble forward!
Mar 21 2010 10:37PM
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snowfreak14
Posts: 370 - Karma: 209
this bill is all sorts of fucked up. just to let any nsers know we will all be paying for Nebraska's health care just to get another vote.... for once i wish i was in canada
Mar 21 2010 10:41PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.

You cannot make a revolution with silk gloves.
Joseph Stalin
Mar 21 2010 10:42PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
And its Yea.
Mar 21 2010 10:45PM
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vailsux.com
Posts: 1769 - Karma: 440
my grandfather had some form of blood cancer for seven fucking years, i watched and listened to him throughout my childhood. He told me his struggle with cancer was his to deal with and should not burden his family or his community. It wasnt his fault he got cancer, but it was his responsibility to deal with his situation once it was placed upon him. He was also the one who told me we live in the land of opportunity and it is my responsibility to take such opportunity and work hard to succeed. My grandfather fought nazi's on christmas eve, the least i can do to repay his is own up to my problems.



How about you think a little harder about the way you talk to people you have never met. I just wanted to know if you disagreed or not. I never said people were at fault if they got sick.
Mar 21 2010 10:45PM
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ridearmada14
Posts: 441 - Karma: 18
well that sucks
Mar 21 2010 10:46PM
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hurrisun
Posts: 6284 - Karma: 49
hahaha ur on the wrong side brooo!! r ur parents those wierdos that prtest shit daily
Mar 21 2010 10:47PM
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alden.
Posts: 855 - Karma: 360
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttt passed
Mar 21 2010 10:47PM
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awsomebob69
Posts: 408 - Karma: 12
.
Mar 21 2010 10:48PM
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TPatel
Posts: 207 - Karma: 10
yes it did!!!
Mar 21 2010 10:51PM
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THATS_STREET
Posts: 2250 - Karma: 33
god i love watching fox news LOL
Mar 21 2010 10:52PM
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Dainsey
Posts: 2263 - Karma: 378
Click for larger image
Mar 21 2010 10:53PM
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THATS_STREET
Posts: 2250 - Karma: 33
and anyway i doubt much will change. the insurance companies will have plenty of time to come up with new schemes to rip people off and profit.
Mar 21 2010 10:57PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
glenn and rush are literally gonna explode tomorrow.
Mar 21 2010 10:59PM
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THATS_STREET
Posts: 2250 - Karma: 33
i think i remember hearing that rush limbaugh said he would leave the country if this would pass. i really hope he keeps his word.
Mar 21 2010 11:05PM
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jeremy.g
Posts: 4931 - Karma: 459
that would be so rad
Mar 21 2010 11:06PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,510
Your grandfather sounds a lot like mine were. Very courageous. Both WW2 vets. I didn't mean to offend but really why would you say something so vague? You left nothing but interpretation with those few words.

I could understand why your grandfather would say that, I don't want to be a burden on anyone for my health issues. That's why I take personal care of my self by exercising and eating a fairly good diet. If I was to get cancer at 33 like my aunt, you're damned right I expect some treatment. I wouldn't want my family putting their time into me but I would expect that I could get treatment in the technologically advanced society we live in. I wasn't trying to discredit the people that actually don't let themselves get fat and such.
Mar 21 2010 11:06PM
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Midwestjibski
Posts: 1676 - Karma: 77
I know man.  Here comes socialism.
Mar 21 2010 11:08PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
he said hed leave to costa rica-where they have socialized everything... lulz
Mar 21 2010 11:09PM
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alden.
Posts: 855 - Karma: 360

well it passed and there was no y2k global epocolipse 2012 meltdown? i mean thats what i was hoping for, maybe its not so bad after all

Mar 21 2010 11:10PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
shit i guess we are socialist now like all those other horrible countries like canada, finland and the UK. FUCK!
Mar 21 2010 11:15PM
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roor
Posts: 946 - Karma: -80
1. Name me a successful government program.

2.  "free" health care is bankrupting Massachusetts

3. The government making me buy something is unconstitutional

4. Many Canadians come to the us to get important procedures done because their health care sucks

5.  The Canadian system is a mess now X that by two because Americans are soo unhealthy

6. Pays doctors shit. No ones going to go to school for that long to get payed shit.


yes democrats go against the will of the people.... we wont be reelecting you 
Mar 21 2010 11:16PM
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Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
this is one giant Rubicon for the dems...I can't wait for the November slaughter.
Mar 21 2010 11:17PM
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THATS_STREET
Posts: 2250 - Karma: 33
how many of the kids posting in this thread are actually old enough to vote?


Mar 21 2010 11:18PM
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