READ THIS: Ski sidecut and mounting

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Loner

well yeah i guess. they said u wanna mount it at sidecut center so it carves best but i wanna cneter mount them for park. they claim for "prgressive" you should mount somehwere in between geometric cnenter and sidecut center but it seem like you wouldnt be getting the carving benefits or the balance and swingweight benefits of a center mount

Nov 3 2009 9:17PM

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mmallender.

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id say if you are planning to ride park and were thinking about true center then go for true center, i am not entirely sure about the benefits of mounting back from true center for park.

Nov 3 2009 9:37PM

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iFail

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Pretty much best answer of the thread.

By "sidecut center" did you really measure where the skinniest part of the ski is, or are you actually talking about recommended mounting point? Skis should have the skinniest part of the ski under the ball of your foot, not the center of your foot. Reco. of -6 puts the skinniest part of the ski at about -1ish of true center, and mounted -6 the ski will carve much better, and flex like it was made to. The spin weight arguement is stupid,and a tail is normally stiffer than a tip(stiffer=heavier) so that will partially counter that in a good way if you do care. If I was forced to only have Chronics in park(made to be mounted -6) and I had to choose between center or -6, I would go -6, it works better, because that is where it was designed to be mounted.

what ski do you have though?

Nov 3 2009 10:53PM

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Loner

i have rossi s4s if you have any specific info on the mounting of these skis it would be great too..and yeah i always thought swingweight concept was kinda wack haha but alot of people bring it up... So in your experience do you feel that mounting it backk, you will notice alot of carving improvement and if you mount it center, will you feel alot better in the parK?

Nov 3 2009 11:41PM

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Truth of the matter:

The ski was designed to be mounted at the sidecut, that's where edging and carving will be most effective. If you really want a center mounted park ski, buy one with a symmetrical sidecut that was designed to be mounted there, a la the Line Anthem.

Mounting a ski out of the sidecut "sweet spot" will affect the way it handles all mountain...and not in a positive fashion.

Nov 3 2009 11:43PM

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Loner

this what i was worried about too... I know alot of people who center mount non-symmetrical skis but do youfeel that sidecut that is not properly being engaged on powder or crud more so than on groomers?

Nov 3 2009 11:47PM

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Don't get me wrong, the sidecut is still being used, and can of course be carved one, etc.
But it's more work to get the ski to make the size radius turns it was designed to make.
Basically you're putting more effort in to it for not that big of a return on the park skiing side of things.
But somewhere in between rec. point and true center is still fine. Just know that mounting over sidecut center is how the ski was engineered and built to perform...

It's like using a flathead screwdriver as a chisel...sure it can be done, but it's more work than if you just had used a chisel in the first place.

Nov 3 2009 11:53PM

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Loner

k thanks for making it simple but i guess the last question is: if i mount it between recomended mounting and center, will the turning be effected there (so it will be a little less work than having it at geometric center?)

Nov 3 2009 11:56PM

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love wins knows what he is talking about. i think it is funny everyone says to mount at center and it doesnt affect turning but then when the question is asked this way no one knows the answer. love wins i right, mounting it at center will seriously destroy how the ski carves. i had karmas and the mounting point was about 7cm back from true and i mounted them true and they were god awful. remounted them probably about 5-7 cm back from true and they were amazing. seriously felt like a completely different ski. i knew it would affect the turning but not as much as it did.

so basically just know that every cm forward you go from the sidecut of the ski (recommended mounting point) the worse they are going to perform for carving so just decide how much carving performance you want to sacrifice for park or spinning performance.

with my karmas mounted at center i had to lean back super hard and pretty much ride my tails to get the ski to carve since i was so far forward from the sidecut. after mounting them 2 cm in front of the furthest back recommended spot (freeride) i could then lean into the front of my boot and pressure the skis properly. the ski could then carve amazingly well and would even ski much better switch again just because it was mounted at the sidecut.

Nov 4 2009 1:25AM

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GNARBARSTAR

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most people that i see that ski non symmetrical skis that are center mounted are always skiing from there heals in the back seat because it is pretty much the only effective way to use the side cut, its really ugly...

Nov 4 2009 2:08AM

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TastyCorn

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Wannabe

Wow super glad I read this before I mounted my blends

https://newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/493958/

I was getting such a different crowd of responses in my thread^^^

If I still want to do some rails and spins should I even bother going up like +2 from recommended? Or is it even worth it?

Nov 4 2009 3:26AM

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Loner

what skis on the market currently for park and pipe have sidecut centers that are close or the same as the geometric center?

Nov 5 2009 12:45AM

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yeahitsdave

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OK, here goes.

the quick and easy, mounting forward of sidecut center will do two things, one positive and one negative. The positive, quicker and easier turn initiation. The tip of you ski is actually what begins the turn of a ski, so the further the weight (and energy) is pushed closer to the tip, the quicker the ski will want to turn. it will take less pressure to get the tip contact initiated and the turn started.

the downside is it will make the ski slightly more hooky. easier turn initiation means more willingness to be on edge, and more desire to be on edge, hence the hooky feeling. anytime you lean the ski over, it wants to go from neutral to full engaged turn, no in between. that hooky feeling is the ski wanting to go from neutral to on edge.

therefore mounting it forward... quicker turning, but less turn diversity.

Nov 5 2009 1:05AM

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If you're skiing properly and pressuring the front of your boots then you drive the tip into a turn. I don't think your point is valid since carving relies on lean angle of the ski. How is a more forward mount going to get the tip to grab sooner? It still has to have the same amount of angle to engage the sidecut and begin a carve.

Nov 5 2009 3:14AM

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i agree, and even with really stiff skis if you really pressure your tips and stay forward your tails are going to come up. even with my karmas which are one of the stiffest twins on the market, when i would flex into them like i would when i would be charging hard i could feel the tails come up a bit.

i would say the only up sides for mounting forward of midsole would be benefits for spinning and swing weight of the ski.

obvious negatives would be the ski will not carve like it is supposed to, you will lose forward skiing pow performance, and you will have to in some cases even lean back on the tails to get your weight over the sidecut to carve which will then lead to poor technique

Nov 5 2009 3:23AM

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TastyCorn

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Wannabe

I know it depends a lot on the type of ski but how far forward of recommended before this is noticeable?

Is it even worth it to go forward like a few cm to help with spinning? I really don't want to regret my mount...

Nov 5 2009 3:32AM

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here is a picture of how mine were mounted, and where i changed them to.

The tic marks in that box on the sidewall are a cm apart. The original mounting point was somewhere between 8 and 9 cm in front of the "midsole, or center of the sidecut". The spot I moved them to was 2 cm in front of that, but was still in their recommended area. I think they skied amazingly 2cm in front of midsole, and feel they would still ski very well at 4 or maybe even 5 in front. Once you start going past that though I feel you will really start to lose performance fast. So depending on where midsole is in relation to the measured center of the ski I would say anywhere between 2 and 4 infront of midsole will most likely be okay, but you will get decreased performance the further forward you go.

To be honest, they even skied like shit switch when they were mounted center for the same reason, I would have to lean back to get over the sidecut of the ski to even do anything.

Its really just a trade off, its like getting a skinnier ski that can do everything well, or a fatter ski that is really only fun in pow and sucks everywhere else, you just kinda have to decide what is most important to you and it will be a trade off. Obviously when my skis were centered they felt really easy to chuck around and spin on but didn't turn well, but to be honest they were still really easy to chuck around on the second mount too but they were a lot more fun to ski on.

Nov 5 2009 4:07AM

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Shredaholic

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Wannabe

The rossignol S4 is a park ski and if you want to get your game on in the park mount em true center ... Think of it like a see-saw, if you want optimum balance when spinnin, jibbin, butterin etc you want your weight in the middle of your platform.

There are a few exceptions, if this is your only ski and you want solid all mtn performance as well then sure mount -2cm ... Also, if you like a traditional feel when skiing then for sure mount towards sidecut center (mid sole) ... IMO a directional ski ie asymmetrical can still perform FINE on the groomers and general all-mtn @ true center it just requires a different technique when carving ... Unless your a LEVEL 3 instructor doing high performance, dynamic carves i cant see any performance cons

LEGIT!

Nov 5 2009 6:32AM

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I_Am_Mod

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Crazy Fool

If you want to ride centered: buy a symmetrical ski...

Please mount at center of your sidecut; the way your ski was designed...

These days there are so many different skis out there there's no more need to mount any place else than sidecut center, just buy the right ski and mount it like recommended...

Nov 5 2009 7:08AM

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skier329onthamac

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Lame

?

Nov 5 2009 12:01PM

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GNARBARSTAR

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truth spoken! end of thread

Nov 5 2009 12:30PM

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Ryno

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This.

I cant believe this many people are still out of the loop when it comes to sidecut and binding position....how many years have you kids been rocking center mounted park skis without knowing what it meant?

Nov 5 2009 1:24PM

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yeah, no kidding. in every other thread where people ask should i go center, everyone says yes. now the question is phrased in a different way and everyone is unsure and says "oh god no" that will ruin the ski. haha

like someone else said, buy symmetrical if you want to mount center

Nov 5 2009 2:16PM

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TastyCorn

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Thanks man very helpful!! +k

The distance on my blends from the midsole (or center of sidecut) to the geo center is 8cm. I think I am gonna go with +2cm from the midsole (or center of sidecut).

Nov 10 2009 3:47PM

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MarkieR

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that's what i suggested you do in your other thread

Nov 10 2009 3:57PM

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powerslide

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Ridiculous

My karma are at the same mounting; the FR (Freeride) center of sidecut + 2cm, and i just love them. the best ski I have ever had. They even work well as an all mt.ski - better than my dynatsar legend 8000. I whant the bridge this year, if i finde them at the right price...

good luck with the mounting

Nov 10 2009 5:03PM

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thegreyarea

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On a traditional, non-symmetrical ski, mounting the binding 1-2 cm forward of side cut center is typical for people who can make a technically correct turn. Most likely, that is only a handful of people on this site and nearly all of them are long-time racers (not an insult).

The mounting position is moved forward of side cut center to drive more pressure down on the front of the ski and give more control in a turn. The practice is a combination of side cut center, manufacturer suggestioned mounting position, racing technique, and camber shape. Skiers who take advantage of this forward shift are driving their hands down the hill like they want to reach for a carrot a foot in front of their skis. Hence, they're ridiculously far forward and driving hard on their boots.

If you're primarily riding park, buy a ski whose side cut suites the park. A park edge will dull on rails over time. Mounting your skis too far forward will only cause your turns to wash.

Nov 10 2009 5:55PM

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KennyC

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well i mounted silencers core center and they ski awesome. i could carve pretty good the only downside is that i couldnt turn worth crap in the powder because the tail had so much more length but i was fine with it. i dont think ill mount a ski anywhere else but center. unless its a powder ski.

Nov 10 2009 8:27PM

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