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Big Air, Can it last?

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EMK
Posts: 1632 - Karma: 669
So It's obvious to us all that the rest of the big air competitions this year are going to a battle of the double cork 1260 just like how a few years ago it was the switch 1080. Now soon enough i'm not going to be the only person bored to death of this trick. But then there will come next season and people will have to either keep doing dub12s or step up to another big trick that will involve more spinning or flipping than the last one. I don't see this as good for our sport, and it will soon become normal to do this new trick it in turn will become the new sw10 and it will be lame too.
If big air keeps going like this it will become just like any other gymnastic sport and how ever incredible or difficult the tricks are they are going to be no more impressive. So what i ask is can big air contests change and bring back the "free" spirit of our sport, will they die all together or will they become a sport of there own while free skiing continues to progress in more interesting and less obvious ways?
Oct 28 2009 4:06PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,500
I think it should be like diving every trick has a DD front flip tuck in diving has a 1.4 so if you get a 6 they times it by 1.4 but if you do a dub front tuck it's 2.2 so If I get a 5 they times it by 2.2 so just because it's harder it not alway guaranteed you will win.
Oct 28 2009 4:09PM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,861
unfortunately, as long as a double cork 12 wins a big air comp, people are still going to do them. I wish that freeskiing got rid of big air comps as a whole nothing but spin to win will win anymore and thats not what we need. and i think that skiing needs more slopestyle competitions. it would show the skiers overall skill through the run and not just one banger trick.
Oct 28 2009 4:09PM
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EMK
Posts: 1632 - Karma: 669
This makes sense yeah, but the fact that it would work in skiing proves my point that it is becoming like gymnastic sport and that is not good for our "culture." Gymnastics are fucking hardcore but they aren't looked at like "extreme" sports, if big air became just another discipline of gymnastics it would no longer be "free" or "extreme" it would just be a normal sport like diving.
Oct 28 2009 4:20PM
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WVskiing
Posts: 3007 - Karma: 1,948
i think bif=g air should turn into style like 720 and lower
Oct 28 2009 4:22PM
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kbrando
Posts: 1206 - Karma: 889
i know im gonna get hated on for this but i would rather see a rail jam in the x games than a big air in the x games. i know big air is a gaper favorite but rails, especially urban is really where the sport is progressing
Oct 28 2009 4:26PM
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chugLIFE
Posts: 4714 - Karma: 1,050
yea, its jsut that big airs are more of a spectator sport, which is where the money comes in and exposure. also, i am yet to see a scaffolding slopestyle set up hahaha
Oct 28 2009 6:33PM
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Atypical
Posts: 1339 - Karma: 45
I'd rather keep the slopestyle for xgames and exposure, and let the mass think thats where the sport is heading. That way we keep the money inflow and can develop other types of contests.

JOSS is one example of a really good contest idea. We need more like this.
Oct 28 2009 6:36PM
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N.L.
Posts: 2420 - Karma: 2,744
DOUBLE CORK 1440. this years big air trick.


oh wait, that trick is 30 years old, its called a FULL-FULL. aerials.
Oct 28 2009 6:42PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
no it's not, a Full Full is a Double Backflip 720. A Double cork 14 would be a double full double full in aerials if anything - but then it would still be inverted, a dub cork isn't the same as a backflip.

Plus, grabs make it not aerials.
Oct 28 2009 6:51PM
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Doug.
Posts: 2236 - Karma: 457
switch
Oct 28 2009 6:53PM
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fratskier69
Posts: 1868 - Karma: 1,272
yes i agree with you completely, like laurent favre's screamin seamin sw 7's are dope, and at ramp camp in lake beauport i saw henrik trying to learn flatspins facing downward (or that what it looked like)
i think tricks like these are where its at, an dyeha who know in 3 years it will be triple rodeo 12's
we need more inovative stuff but NOT GYMNASTIC maneouvers
Jon Olsson is amazing, dont get me wrong i love the guy, but his ridiculous double flips will just keep on pushing us in that direction
henrik's blunt roll dub is sick,
Oct 28 2009 6:55PM
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Thenowhereman42
Posts: 5682 - Karma: 65
Its up to the athletes really.  People like Lolo go out there and do something different and really cool, but then the judges give them like 4th, and they have to deal with that.  If everyone went out there and did hand drags and gigantic cork 3's and screamin seamens then it would change the nature of the competition, but so far not too many athletes are willing to take the risk.
Oct 28 2009 6:56PM
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Drew.C
Posts: 1757 - Karma: 39
haha itd be sick if they did a game like pig at big air events. like start off with an easy trick and progess to harder ones until there is only 1 person who hasnt fallen yet lol. that would be crazy ahha
Oct 28 2009 7:04PM
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chugLIFE
Posts: 4714 - Karma: 1,050
funny, turping put a triple rodeo 12 to his feet this summer at momentum haha.
Oct 28 2009 7:15PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
Ok here how I see it.

Local big air comps are still super fun, not everyone is at the same level so lots of different tricks get thrown. For the most part people are still throwing down their best trick (usually the biggest one they can make look good)

Once you get to a pro comp you are seeing the top people in the sport, at this point their are tons of pros who are all at about the same level. This means they are again going to be doing the hardest trick they can make look good. since they are all at about the same level they are pretty much going to be doing the same tricks.

The only reason that pro comps used to have so much variation back in the day is because there were so few pros that the talent was much more spread out. it was not uncommon to see pros throwing cork 7's not because they wanted to be stylish, but because they couldn't throw a nice switch 9 on that jump, so the guy who could would win.

I think doubles have brought much more variation into big air comps, I remember the 2 years it was basically all switch 10's. Now we have 2 kinds of doubles (rodeos, corks) and big switch spins, all of those could win big air comps. It would also be cool to see some huge forward spins done well, I mean a 1260 looks like a lot more spinning than a double cork 12, so it would impress people a lot.
Oct 28 2009 7:18PM
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T-Tall
Posts: 72 - Karma: 10
exactly! it's constantly evolving and whether people like it or not, you're just gonna see people spin more and more
Oct 28 2009 7:19PM
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the-big-lepowski
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 544

It seems to be plateauing a bit already, but yeah, I would like to see more double grabs, as in 2 seperate grabs in one air.  and for the spin to win question, I liked this last freestyle.ch comp where you had one hit for a style jump (540 or less) and a second technical one.  good combination there

Oct 28 2009 8:57PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
Here's a video of a guy sacrificing style so that he could go for a super difficult trick that nobody else could pull at the time.....

So the question is, should he have gone for it, or should he have kept the sport all about style? Because at the time, nobody could really imagine this trick being done with smooth slow style... just pulling it off was enough to win.

Courtesy of Newschoolers.com

Oct 28 2009 9:13PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
Sorry but that is incorrect. A super corked 7 is basically a d-spin (also called a d-spin 7). Which is also a really poorly executed (in their world) back full. Do a corked 7 twice and you are doing (essentially) a full-full.

a double full in aerials is the equivalent to our corked 1080.

The original comment was correct.


Oct 28 2009 9:20PM
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Sun_Ra
Posts: 983 - Karma: 279
I still think that skier's big air is BY FAR less boring to watch than snowboard big air. Actually, ski looks better in slopestyle and pipe(they still go for straight airs...) too. I think that skier will mix it up with other doubles such as double mistys and other switch doubles. The tricks will evolve, we just have to wait and see. When sw 10 were the tricks, we all got bored. The next year Gagnier won the big air at the US Open with a sw 12 octo, there were still sw 10s but also tons of other tricks such as doubles from wester, sw 14(or 12) from Schiller and kangs from a few guys. We just have to not worry, the creativity will come !
Oct 28 2009 10:17PM
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-BRENT-
Posts: 287 - Karma: 40

Yea big air is just turning into who can do the most spin and flips with the most style.

Oct 28 2009 10:35PM
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jeR.
Posts: 1325 - Karma: 58
1 3 5 comps are pretty cool- be sweet to see a pro 1 3 5 it'd be oozing with style

If judges rated style as highly as big dubs we'd probably see a more mixed bag of tricks at big airs... so maybe a dope styley rodeo 7 may take the win or an ungrabbed dub cork 14
Oct 28 2009 10:53PM
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Roy
Posts: 1982 - Karma: 1,240

I think it can espesh if you've noticed how big air comps have gone over the last 8 to 10 years (I know Im an old guy). You'll notice that you'll have a huck phase then a refining phase. Basically people start figuring out new tricks so everyone is trying to learn them so they can win. There's not that much style but difficulty is up Aka a huck phase. Then after awhile all these guys are doing these tricks but since no one has come up with anything new and crazier, guys will dial  them in, in an attempt to edge out the competition with the same trick but better style. At this point your in a refining phase. I think right now big air is in a refining phase, and as the jumps get bigger and/or the athletes get more comfy with their doubles, one or two guys will start doing something new and crazy but hucked and then you'll see it back in a huck phase.

Oct 28 2009 10:55PM
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A.Matyjaszek
Posts: 74 - Karma: 76
haha "hes going backwars", good old days
Oct 28 2009 11:30PM
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Username_42069
Posts: 1591 - Karma: 15
most valid point made in this whole thread.. thank you
Oct 28 2009 11:41PM
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ski-swagga
Posts: 5276 - Karma: 219
hahaha cat out the window style!! thats whats up!
Oct 28 2009 11:42PM
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iliketoski329
Posts: 220 - Karma: 34

Freestyle skiing should be about the style and keeping things looking smooth and unique. The only reason big air and other freestyle events were freestyle events were because riders wanted to come up with new and UNIQUE tricks. Now its just whoever has the most technically difficult run stomped. People will keep adding an extra 180 here and there to make their runs better judged. I would like to see more events like freestyle.ch where there is a style element to it. But i mean when we need to start dictating maximum number of spins and etc we are just moving further away from the core of the sport. I think alot of this has to do with the gigantic features that are being built. I mean if you go and see some really good freestylers spending the day at a normal park (no excessively huge kickers) i think it looks way cooler and I know it can be so much more cool and fun as you are forced to do other things than hucking huge spins to pull off stylish tricks

Oct 28 2009 11:48PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,426
People are stupid. Yeah progression is bad for the sport.

I mean at a certain point the jumps cant get get any bigger and you can only spin so much.

But it's stilll good.

Look how much more style has come in. People make dub corks look as easy as 7s in the older comps.

why does everyone have to bitch about things like this
Oct 28 2009 11:48PM
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iliketoski329
Posts: 220 - Karma: 34
i agree with what you said as well but idk bout people bitching about progression haha. But i mean it is true that not all mountains have the ability to build bigger features so It becomes difficult for ams and people trying to go pro to progress and keep up with these huge tricks. Now its almost nescisarry to go to these huge mountains (breck, mammoth etc) and summer camps to be able to bring their training on tramps to the snow. I know for sure that at my local mountains its gonna be impossible or really ugly looking to throw 12s and double flips etc. Obviously im all ffor growing hype with these huge features cuz its just gonna help grow the sport but this rapid progression does make it harder for those who really want to aspire to improve and make a name for themselves
Oct 29 2009 12:02AM
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TheUngroomed
Posts: 1251 - Karma: 335
huh?
Oct 29 2009 12:05AM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15949 - Karma: 9,431
that would be so sick. maybe going down a city street or something
Oct 29 2009 12:19AM
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jaylib
Posts: 4523 - Karma: 777
i love gymnastics
Oct 29 2009 12:25AM
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Ryan*
Posts: 1827 - Karma: 1,195
Lol then he broke his rib...or wait, did he actually land it at the night sesh?
Oct 29 2009 12:27AM
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Roy
Posts: 1982 - Karma: 1,240

Thats cuz Turpin is the MAN, both in a literal sense and because he rips!

Oct 29 2009 12:54AM
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the-big-lepowski
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 544
sounds like the playstreets comp in some austrian town.  not quite a scaffolding setup, but still pretty sick.  Just skiing down narrow streets and wallrides on the sides of downtown buildings.  plus the rail options are obvious.
Oct 29 2009 9:33AM
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tbayjibber
Posts: 326 - Karma: 62
Do something like freestyle.ch where there was one style run one true big air run, but weight them both the same not just for qualifiers
Oct 29 2009 9:36AM
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.peter
Posts: 1222 - Karma: 63
personally I think double flips are stupid, and if you wanna do triples just go do aerials. But I say let the few people who do them continue to because it get exposure for everyone else. The real problem is how little an influence filming has in skiing. Most action sports today are almost entirely film based with a handful of huge competitions that only the huge name disillusioned riders compete in (Sean White). I think we're headed in that direction but the people who don't like double flips and watching aerials plus baggy clothes need to continue to progress their own styles so that they can be recognized for what they do. Just look at snowboarding and skateboarding now and you'll understand what I'm talking about
Oct 29 2009 1:41PM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
I would MUCH rather watch a big air then watch guys dance on rails all day. But that's just me I guess..
Oct 29 2009 1:52PM
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Elg
Posts: 2998 - Karma: 3,880
i wanna see a comp where everyone is required to do 1s, 3s, 5s, 7s, 9s and 10s. switch or forward, left or right.
Oct 29 2009 2:31PM
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nellyyy
Posts: 1676 - Karma: 3,269
Epic fail. Cork 7, in terms of rotation, is the equivalent of a Full. A Cork 10 equals a double full. Therefor, double 14 = full full, double 18 = double full double full.

Go do a full and a cork 7 on a trampoline and you'll understand what i mean
Oct 29 2009 4:25PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
big air died down for a few years when it just became a sw 1080 contest. After next year I don't see big air being so popular unless there's a huge change in format and jump size.
Oct 29 2009 4:35PM
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mer-man
Posts: 1079 - Karma: 10
this is why i really appreciate the king of style contest i really think big air should go even more in that direction contests should be based something like 40 on the style and 60 on the actual trick ie a super nice not to hucked octo 7 would beat a hucked misty 1080 also i dont think triples would be horible if they were thrown down on bigger jumpslike 300 ft range
Oct 29 2009 4:52PM
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grifftang
Posts: 1277 - Karma: 14
this and then some.
Oct 29 2009 4:58PM
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ski@jaypeak2
Posts: 2800 - Karma: 394
didnt andreas haetvit do this at his spot.  I remember seeing a video and it look like a sick session
Oct 29 2009 5:10PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,426
I still don't have a clue what your talking about.

Even triple flips and aerials are different.

If you can make a triple cork look good over a big jump, why not?

Look how much more style there already is on the easier tirkcs.

And film based sport?

i really don't here you there. Still a sport about going out and having fun at your local hill.

film and major comps, though a big part of keeping the sport going, aren't a huge part of the average skiers everyday life.

I don't see whats wrong with double flips. Fun,  and some people people can make them look staight up dirty.



Nothing like aerials
Oct 29 2009 5:53PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,426
I hope your being sarcastic on the end. And yea, style should play a big part in big air comps
Oct 29 2009 5:56PM
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CKpolicy
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 2,463
the problem is that competition does not promote freedom of expression, it promotes more competition...
Oct 29 2009 6:00PM
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readiculous
Posts: 880 - Karma: 28
What was that comp last year that went through the streets? I think it was in italy. That was by far the most entertaining "urban" competition i've ever watched. And because the course was so weird everybody was forced to focus on style instead of spin.
Oct 29 2009 6:26PM
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timmmy
Posts: 654 - Karma: 25
it seems like there are more double variations in snowboarding for some reason (mainly cause it's been around longer). i think margett's dub 9 should win over a dub 12.
Oct 29 2009 6:45PM
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Ryan*
Posts: 1827 - Karma: 1,195
Red Bull Playstreets?  Mentioned earlier in this thread.
Oct 29 2009 10:04PM
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