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Canon hv30 vs. panisonic dvx100a

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C.DeJohn
Posts: 499 - Karma: 579
i was wndering which one is better all the cameras that i have used so far have been just mem cards never used mini dvs yet wondering which one to get

Oct 5 2009 9:40PM
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KarmaInitiative
Posts: 2028 - Karma: 174
i think the main question is quality vs learning.

the hv30 shoots beautiful hd, but its a fairly simple consumer camera

the dvx only shoots sd, but it has much more manual features and settings
Oct 5 2009 9:42PM
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C.DeJohn
Posts: 499 - Karma: 579
so if u had to pick which one would u get
Oct 5 2009 9:44PM
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Yeezus
Posts: 3350 - Karma: 469
hv30
Oct 5 2009 9:51PM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
Well, if you know how to use a camera and aren't too worried about HD, get the dvx, if you want HD and don't know too much about cameras get the HV30.



Now, my suggestion is, you're comparing a under 1000 dollar camera to a 2500 dollar camera, what is your budget? Have you considered getting a better HD camera like a sony fx7/fx1, or a panasonic hmc40/150? You can get the fx7 or the hmc40 for just under 2000 (less than dvx) and have hd and solid manual controls or you could step up to fx1 or hmc150 and spend about 3000 (the hmc150 will be just like the dvx accept HD and have a few different options with frame rate)

So consider your budget, consider what you want, and do research.
Oct 5 2009 9:52PM
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C.DeJohn
Posts: 499 - Karma: 579
my price range is a little over 1000 i know this guy that is selling a dvx to me for 950
Oct 5 2009 10:00PM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
Yeah, I wouldn't buy a dvx for 950, shit must be fucked up, unless you know the dude personally and know the camera is ok then go for it, but otherwise i wouldnt go it.
Oct 5 2009 10:04PM
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C.DeJohn
Posts: 499 - Karma: 579
yo thanks alot +karma and i love clown school
Oct 5 2009 10:07PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,947

Like eheath said, you're comparing two pretty different things, and he laid them out pretty well for you.

If you asked me, I'd take the DVX.  Part of the fun in video is the filming, and filming entails messing with the camera, adjusting the picture.  You can't do that on an HV30 the way you can on a DVX, there is no way.  The DVX was built to be the most adjustable (is that a word?) SD consumer camera made at the time, and it was.  It still is.  I love my DVX; I love what I can do with it, I love what it does for me.

Plus it has a handle, and TWO ZOOM TOGGLES!!1!lol.

Oct 5 2009 10:45PM
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1337
Posts: 31038 - Karma: 29,003
yes adjustable is a word haha

I would go with the DVX, but make sure you check it out first hand to make sure the deal is legit, for that price i would be a little worried. But if it is, go for it, it has way more manual controls and captures a very high quality (not HD) video, and you are definitely getting more bang for your buck.
Oct 5 2009 11:21PM
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Trent_Palmer
Posts: 226 - Karma: 936
You want to have a lot of fun shooting then get a HV30 and a in expensive 35mm adapter, I have seen MTV commercials shot in part on that setup. In my opinion DVX is too outdated to consider, then again in my opinion the HVX is too outdated. I would say go with the HV30 and spend some extra money on support equipment, (tripod, a GOOD wide angle - no ebay $50 cheapies and grab a whole bunch a tapes) and go to town!


Too many people think big camera + handle = good camera = good footage, this isnt correct, good camera helps make better footage, handle means heavy camera nothing more. The DVX had its place and time and set the stage for EVERYTHING after it, but in this case I would say go HV30. Just my $0.10 (I figured no body wants .02 these days anyway)

Hope that helps! Now go get a camera and start having some fun!
Oct 6 2009 1:33AM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
Uh, then what isn't outdated? hv30?
Oct 6 2009 1:52AM
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Dakoulas
Posts: 2894 - Karma: 40
How the hell is the HVX outdated.....??
Oct 6 2009 3:31AM
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KarmaInitiative
Posts: 2028 - Karma: 174
if the dvx deal is legit, probs go for that, if you dont like it you can sell it on ebay and probs profit. if its not, id say a hv30 cause the youl get better quality footage for a lot less money
Oct 6 2009 8:42AM
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Jwenz
Posts: 8893 - Karma: 7,633
yes quite the bold statement about the hvx...

i would suggest the dvx in my opinion unless you aren't going to get into it that much. The dvx leaves a wide range of options open and the quality can be very good, but is SD. HV30 is more for someone that is newer at filming and wants HD footage that looks good for little of the price. Depends how deep you want to get into it
Oct 6 2009 9:35AM
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TomasAa
Posts: 585 - Karma: 699
Get the hv30 and a letus mini 35mm adapter
Oct 6 2009 11:22AM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
Click for larger image
Oct 6 2009 11:26AM
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TomasAa
Posts: 585 - Karma: 699
hv30 and the letus:

Ski Movie Project from Lars BK on Vimeo.


Oct 6 2009 12:02PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
id go with a dvx for sure, your gonna learn alot about filming, and get much better quality footage.  Having HD can be nice, but HD doesnt always mean quality and in this case the SD dvx is better.  personally, just having the HD resolution wouldnt make me choose one camera over another if im mostly just putting my footage on the internet.
even if it were a fx1 or something id still choose the dvx, ive just seen so much amazing looking footage come from them.
Oct 6 2009 12:37PM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
I never said it was bad, but this kid obviously has no idea what he is doing, why the fuck would you recommend that he buys a letus? Like, seriously? I consider myself an okay filmer/film maker and ive played with a letus and i would have a real hard time filming skiing that isn't small rail feature and since we are on NS he is most likely buying a camera to film his friends skiing. Recommending he buys a complicated piece of filming equipment is just ridiculous. Plus, he said he has about 1000 dollar budget, which means hes probably not trying to drop another 1500 on a whole letus setup.
Oct 6 2009 12:39PM
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Trent_Palmer
Posts: 226 - Karma: 936
HPX170... HMC150... Both cheaper ,newer and better (in atleast a few aspects) than the HVX, correct me if I am wrong here but that makes it outdated. I am not saying the HVX is a bad camera, the HVX is a KILLER camera and will not be going anywhere anytime soon, and when in the right hands can hold its own with pretty much any cam out there. That doesnt mean its not older technology. I think its pretty obvious that everything is going toward the video-still camera, that new GH1 or better the canon 7D both shoot better video (image wise) than the HVX and have price tags at less than $2k.

I know a lot of this is opinion based, and my opinion is probably influenced by how I just sold my HVX with 2 P2's for $3k, a setup that had cost me $7000+ when I got it 2 years ago. So I guess it has moved down in ranks a good bit in the past two years, yeah?

I didnt mean to step on anyones toes with that comment, and I normally avoid posting on newschoolers just to aviod doing so. But the truth is in any technology related item they are normally outdated within a year, its just the nature of technology.
Oct 6 2009 1:19PM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
Uh the HMC150 is NOT better than the hvx, jesus. I will pay an extra 1500 for 70-100mbps(p2).


HPX170 shoots the exact same shit as the hvx, it just doesn't have a tape deck. The hpx has some upgraded shit, but it doesn't make it shoot any better than the hvx. And since you can get an hvx for cheaper than a hpx, it makes it not outdated and possibly a better deal for someone on a budget.

As for the canon 7d comment or the gh1, they do not shoot "better video" they shoot 1080p (whoop dee do, are you really going to own these cameras and burn bluray? no) on a single cmos sensor, and they don't even use the whole sensor! also, the exposure and focusing is sketchy in comparison to an hvx.

Keep in mind, the filming setting i am in right now is skiing, not anything else. Sure, there are some things that would be better for filming with a 7d vs an hvx, but there is a reason big ski/snowboard companies still use cameras and not dslrs only (of course some have them but they still use there other cameras over the dslr)

And the fact you sold your hvx for only 3000 means you did a bad job of selling it, you could easily get 4000 for a used hvx.
Oct 6 2009 1:35PM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
And the fact you bought you hvx with 2 p2 cards for 7000+ also makes you bad at buying. If i bought an extra 16gb p2 card for my hvx, i wouldnt have even broken 6000(roughly 5500).
Oct 6 2009 1:38PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
As much as I love the DVX, you sound like somebody who would benefit from an HV30. The DVX kills it in every aspect except resolution, but the HV30 is small and can shoot HD if you know how to use cinema tools. You can also use After Effects (or something similar) for color correction, which would be the cheapest and easiest way to go.
Unless you want an "organic" filming experience where almost everything is done in camera, in which case I'd suggest the DVX. I honestly believe that it SD/HD don't matter a bit when shooting skiing. Just know that shooting landscapes on SD sucks.

Also, whatever you do go with, DEFINITELY get a polarizer, graduated ND filter, and wide angle. Make sure it's quality glass too, not some $40 stick on. Having a nice camera doesn't do you any good if you're filming through bad glass.
Oct 6 2009 2:32PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I would also suggest building a steady cam, which makes a huge difference in filming follows. A good microphone helps a lot as well; way too many people overlook sound.
And of course a quality tripod, but that should be a given.
Oct 6 2009 2:35PM
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Trent_Palmer
Posts: 226 - Karma: 936
Whoa man, like I said, I am not here to piss anyone off. I know you shoot HVX so there is no point in arguing you, I can never win because I know you want to think your camera is the best. Like I said, it is a GREAT camera, HPX is a little better unless you like carrying around a heavier camera with a tape deck you dont use. HMC is better because its cheaper, you can shoot more on cheaper cards, plus the image is almost the same as the HVX only better low light, so I feel the HMC is a better value...

Also, you should look into things a little more before you comment. The 7D and the GH1 both shoot 720p at 60fps, on their whole frames, no they do not have full frame sensors but they are WAY bigger than the HVX, (HVX=4.7x2.6mm, 7D=22.3x14.9mm) thats over 25 times more area on the sensor. Plus they dont have any of that pixel shift crap and weird pixel aspect ratios. No, they dont have image stabilization or auto anything but I sure hope you arent shooting handheld all the time on your HVX and your crazy if you leave it on auto mode and call yourself a cinematographer. Every camera has its work arounds.

And no, I got my HVX a long time ago man, way back when they were hard to get a hold of and they did not come with a 16gig card, or any card for that matter, my first 8gig card was $1000, waited a while and got a 16 for another $1000 plus the $5000 for the camera....


Oct 6 2009 3:06PM
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Trent_Palmer
Posts: 226 - Karma: 936
Yep, a single CMOS sensor, just like the RED One, and at almost the same size... Sketchy focusing? C'mon man, really? We are talking the same DOF as the RED One, on the same size sensor and you can even use the same lenses, how is that sketchy?

And yeah, I would like to think I will be outputting to blue ray soon, thats where its all going.
Oct 6 2009 3:12PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
The video feature on those cameras is nice and all, but really isn't that great. I've found it to be more of a novelty feature than anything. And no, they do not even compare to the RED cameras just because it's a CMOS. Read the stats on the RED cams.

And the HVX shoots better quality than the hmc. Higher bitrate = higher quality
Oct 6 2009 4:47PM
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Trent_Palmer
Posts: 226 - Karma: 936
Yeah, I'm definitely not saying its as good as the RED but I can tell you that when I have edited canon 5D Mark II footage in with RED footage it looks pretty dang good, hard to tell a difference, the HVX footage with RED stands out like a sore thumb simply because of the DOF... (I primarily edit RED these days) So on a professional image standpoint I think the DSLR's are the way to go. RED knows it, thats why all their new stuff (if they ever release it) will all be Still / Motion cameras.

I know the HMC footage is not quite as good as the HVX, but one can easily make their HVX footage look bad with poor handling and/or settings. So it really depends on who's hands it is in. Smaller file size is nice, lighter, cheaper, thats about all the HMC has over the HVX.
Oct 6 2009 4:59PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Subjective. Many people hate small/light cameras, myself included.
Oct 6 2009 5:24PM
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Trent_Palmer
Posts: 226 - Karma: 936
Yeah, I am kinda in between, I like a camera that isnt too light or small but big and bulky can be a pain too, plus all the support equipment goes up in price with that too.
Oct 6 2009 5:42PM
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ILoveOhio
Posts: 1793 - Karma: 253
you could say the same for HV30 vs. DVX. 

the HV30 doesn't shoot "better video", (whoopteedooo it shoots at a higher resolution!)

The focus and exposure control on an HV30 are no where near the DVX.

Just saying it's pretty much the same arguement.




As far as my opinion on what you should do.

How serious are you planning on taking filming?  I own a DVX and i wouldn't trade it for an HV30 EVER.  You simply cannot have the same control over a consumer camera.  Also I can't stand using cameras that are smaller than the last poop I took in the bathroom.  I feel like I'm working with a toy even though it can produce some good images.

Basically if you want to learn about a camera get a DVX.

If you want to be lazy and have a camera that feels like a toy, yet still has a decent end result, get the HV30.


Oct 6 2009 5:54PM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
Yes, but it doesnt use the whole thing, it only uses 1920x1080 of the what, like 5000k sensor? And sketchy meaning no auto focus, which is action and operation a camera by yourself its very tough to manual focus some shots.

Just because it has more DOF or the same as the red(any slr?) doesn't make it a better camera. The small DOF shot isn't exactly the ideal shot for action.


And nice claim.
Oct 6 2009 5:54PM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
Sorry for the double post, but you shoot with reds and you said this? fail.
Oct 6 2009 6:00PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
True, but DOF adapters offer more than just shallow depth of field. Specifically, they feather the knee, which is waaay too abrupt on every prosumer camera I've ever used. If I had one, I would shoot it skiing whenever possible, with the DOF as deep as possible, for that reason alone.
Oct 6 2009 6:02PM
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Trent_Palmer
Posts: 226 - Karma: 936
It uses the whole sensor, it just down reses the size to 1920x1080, there is no crop when switching from still mode to video mode. Kind of like how the HVX up reses its 960x540 sensor resolution to 1280x720... And I never use auto focus, walk into a real shoot and turn on auto focus and watch everyone laugh you off set. Plus you'll have to deal with a very angry person who has to deal with all the auto focus tracking in post, its just given that if you are going for a professional look you want shallow DOF and no auto focus.


Oct 6 2009 6:07PM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
Well other than yourself, no one else here goes to "real shoots" or is professional, which apparently you are? Like i said before, my setting of filming im refering to is skiing. Shallow DOF and skiing is a tough mix and it something that you have to take alot of time to set up and only works in certain situations.
Oct 6 2009 6:13PM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
Forgot to say, even though its may downres, it doesnt matter, its still only 1080. ive seen plenty of 5d footage and such, saying its better than hvx/hpx/ex1 is just silly. If anything, its equal.
Oct 6 2009 6:14PM
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Trent_Palmer
Posts: 226 - Karma: 936
Huh? I'm not sure what you mean, I said they are not full frame sensors on those cameras, nor is the RED. The 5D has a full 35mm frame. They still shoot on the whole sensor they have inside of them (accept red when shooting anything lower than 4k) And I have never shot RED, I just edit for a guy who shoots RED.

Also, I am not competing with you or against you in any way, whats with the bitterness? I just like talking camera stuff, thats it.
Oct 6 2009 6:18PM
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eheath
Posts: 61100 - Karma: 118,255
Don't mean to be bitter, just some things you are saying are a little off in my book. Agree to disagree?
Oct 6 2009 6:20PM
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Trent_Palmer
Posts: 226 - Karma: 936
No, I understand, and I should have kept my mouth shut about the whole HVX being outdate in my book thing, it was unnecessary. I just still have a bad taste in my mouth from losing so much on that whole deal. Oh well.

And I really wasnt trying to claim anything, I can tell you that I am not that great at any of this stuff, I just like the technical side.
Oct 6 2009 6:27PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,947

y1e$!!!!1!!

Oct 6 2009 7:46PM
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Jwenz
Posts: 8893 - Karma: 7,633
please buy MattyB.'s dvx that he has for sale in the BST forum
Oct 7 2009 11:34AM
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