Why does everyone want Saga?

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Because LDC looks like shit the past few years.

Sep 20 2009 7:18PM

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Balto

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@th1337

this

Sep 20 2009 7:19PM

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Thenowhereman42

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Ma Grenade pants got holes in them, so its either spend like $120 on shitty 5k/5k pants that will only last two seasons from some snowboard company or spend an extra $80 to buy from a ski company, get 20k/20k, some sick looking pants that will hold value so well its just silly and I can probably sell next season for like $150 if I want. I'm also over 6 foot and almost 200lbs and its pretty tough to get gear in XXL without paying full price anyway because it sells out so fast you can't outlet it the next season. Plus i've never seen them in person but the general consensus seems to be that they are high quality.

Sep 20 2009 7:22PM

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Kevski

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I've loved saga since a couple seasons ago. Something about the designs is just really nice. I like the pockets having the different colours. The quality is off the hook. Really good tough fabric, 20k/20k, and the fit is super nice too. It's tall enough for tall people, without being too fat.

They seem to be in the industry because they love to ski, and wanted to make sick outerwear. They don't seem like they just wanna take as much money as they can from skiing without giving anything back. Also, the team is super solid. Not really any big names (other than Tim), but they're all sick riders with good vibes towards skiing.

That's why I like Saga.

Sep 20 2009 7:23PM

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skiP.E.I.

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That falls under saga advertising as well. Their distinctive design, colours and logo are an advertisement in itself, so just by wearing a saga outfit or taking a picture of yourself in it and posting on the web, you are advertising for saga. They design it that way, just like all other outerwear companies. Their product is very recognizable to a particular group of people.

Sep 20 2009 7:58PM

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In regards to the 20,000/20,000 usually that is gortex. Waterproofing is two things. 1, the waterproofing of the outer fabric and then the membrane. WATER PROOFING DOES NOT MATTER! Your membrane is what really matters. You can have a 30,000 waterproofing but if you don't take care of it, it can be less effective than a 3,000 water proofing. And in winter outerwear, GORTEX is not the best at all. It is not even close to being the best. Columbia makes better cold weather membranes than GORTEX. Many of the membranes in snowboarding brands are entirely adequate if not better than GORTEX.

So yes, 20,000 for breathability is awesome, but not if it is GORTEX and the 20,000 waterproofing isn't really significant.

http://www.velocitypress.com/Goretex.shtml - read that. Then learn about waterproofing fabrics.

Sep 20 2009 8:14PM

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to add to this,

"A "mm/24 hours" rating refers to the amount of rainfall a fabric can withstand in a single day. Thus a 10,000 mm waterproof rating means the garment can withstand over 32 feet (10,000 mm) of rainfall in a single day without letting moisture in."

Given hard falls are going to cause more pressure on the fabric but its not like you are falling enough to cause enough pressure to really need 20,000 waterproofing. Unless of course you way 400lbs and are rolling around in a few inches of water for 16 hours to test the durability of your jacket.

Sep 20 2009 8:22PM

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^^ dude rachy your first thread said waterproofing rating doesnt matter you second thread said you dont need 20k waterproofing becaouse you dont get 32 feet of rain in a day. well that is contradictive, and apparently you havent skied at mt baker, or in utah while its snowing 3 inches an hour, because the people with poor gear are in the lodge drying off, and the people with sick gear, much like saga, and other top of the line gear are out schralping and are super stoked people like you dont buy good gear because the lift line is much shorter when the weather is bad..

Sep 20 2009 10:10PM

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and gore tex proshell is the best fabric out there. that website you posted is some communist propaganda. other companies can now only compete with goretex because their patent ran out, which was issued in like the 70s. so yea mr. gore had his shit together.

Sep 20 2009 10:12PM

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epic_line

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Gortex made breathable waterproofing. there the basis for all of it. gortex is the best waterproofing out there.

Sep 21 2009 2:40AM

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Goretex is not the best, but she ^^ is not really correct on how the rating system works. Goretex is not the best for different reasons.

Sep 21 2009 2:44AM

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murs

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i agree with u but

i love saga and every goes nuts over it cos its dope and great fit

Sep 21 2009 2:53AM

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Chilly.

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The way I see it, people dont buy saga because of its function...its because of how it looks. saga to me represents the skiers that try hard to look cool rather than to get good at skiing. im sure its not true for everyone

Sep 21 2009 2:57AM

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I feel LDC is more along those lines. Their outerwear lacks any real tech and just looks stupid. Saga on the other hand looks better, and functions better. Hell, LBC didnt even have zippers on their pockets last year.

Sep 21 2009 3:00AM

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murs

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i agree with taht 100 percent

Sep 21 2009 4:35AM

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Thenowhereman42

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I actually think the new LDC jackets look better than the saga ones (more subtle), but no zippers on pockets is just completely ridiculous I didn't know that at all.

Sep 21 2009 5:54AM

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are those two something you can actually even compare, more subtle or anything? honestly? and it seems like saga xl is bigger by 1.5 inches than LDC XLT if thats what you care about. Then sagas specs destroy theirs. To each their own.

and judging by the blog LDC put up, saga does set the industry standard.

Sep 21 2009 11:42AM

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What I have said about the waterproofing is true. You only really need 3,000; 10,000 would be more than sufficient in a very very snowy day. And yes, I know what it is like to get a lot of snow. My town gets 30 feet a year on average the last few years has been around 40. If I got the waterproofing amount wrong, then I apologize, but that is a general guideline which I have heard many times. I know there are several different ways they test the most impressive being the high pressure water tests to an inch of fabric. Very cool to watch. I just hate people having the wrong Idea about waterproofing and not understanding how it really works.

I encourage you to look this up and find out for yourself and not off the GORTEX site.

SAGA seems more appearance -> price -> quality

Oakley appearance -> then price and quality are about the same

Marker quality -> price -> appearance

Burton -> appearance -> appearance -> pice -> quality (except their high end which does have really great quality)

Holden -> quality(although some dont have snow skirts) -> appearance -> price

686 -> appearance -> functionality/quality -> price

Spyder -> quality -> appearance -> price

Depending on the item from the company, these vary, but this is just a very general description.

I buy based on appearance -> quality -> price cause I like to be able to wear my stuff for 4 seasons+. quality second cause I know how to take care of my gear properly and it is cheap for me to do so. price last cause I can get nearly any brand on shop form.

Sep 21 2009 11:48AM

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something fishy abuot someone who calls mammoth home and is only looking for 3,000mm h20 proofing. and the fact that you think MARKER or HOLDEN outerwear is the best for what you want to do because you think they care about QUALITY first even makes me wonder about you even more.

I think SAGA starts with very high quality fabric (the shit is bombproof i have taken massive sharp tree branches to the arm, been bruised to fuck, and have had not even a thread pull on my SAGA coat) and then they worked on their design to make it sick, then they said well we are going to charge less this year because to give back to people who have been supporting us and sales through a recession are priceless.

please please please lets ski together on a storm day, first to last chair. please please please, lets get in and out of the gondola just coated in snow, let it melt then freeze again then build up some body heat and have it escape through your temperature regualting fabric and melt the ice, ride some soaking wet chairs, hang out lower mtn for a bit where the snow is more wet, you get the idea.

Sep 21 2009 12:09PM

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i said 3000 is enough, 10000 for really snowy day. my jacket is only 7000 and I have never had a problem till the end of the season.

I also didn't say i would rather purchase marker. I just know they invest a ton into quality but i hate the look of their stuff. Holden invests a ton into quality as well, but I do like the look of their stuff.

my jacket has finally begun wetting out. as have my pants. I got more than enough value out of it.

i have skied open to close with a nice break inside. One day we even took off our skis and were jumping off trees into 5 feet or so into fresh snow.

Sure when I go inside my stuff feels kinda wet on the outside and I hang it up to dry, but the water beads off (in most places except a patch on the back where I do wear a backpack sometimes). But it really has been sufficient. It really is the DWR that is incredibly important to take care of, most people don't though.

Sep 21 2009 12:29PM

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Ok, I may have had my numbers slightly wrong, and I admit if I was slightly wrong, but not wrong enough.

25 psi is considered 100% waterproof. Most 10,000 rated meet this 25 psi rating and are supposed to continue to meet it for 20 washes.

3,000 may have been off, but for dry weather and normal use,(person who goes once or twice a week for a few hours) that should be enough. Gortex is just over 20,000 depending on which kind and 40 psi. If 25 psi is considered 100% waterproof, why need 40psi? Yes, Gortex is fantastic if you are hiking or climbing and I will always recommend it then. But there are better breathable fabrics with lower waterproof ratings but are still considered 100% waterproof and are better for winter outerwear.

I have never had an issue with my 7000 nearly 100% waterproof jacket and probably have 400 days on the mountain with it and way more general use wears. It has been washed more than 20 times and been retreated a few times with DWR. I have been out many times from open to close. I have been outside for 6 hours digging in the snow to build a snow fort in somewhat wet snow. I just don't need more than 7000 cause I take really good care of my equipment.

"Yet outdoor companies don't always use PSI to highlight waterproof quality. Instead they tout large figures that have a more tangible meaning than pounds per square inch. For example, the Cloudveil Zorro Jacket has a waterproof rating of 10000mm (10K). This figure represents the amount of rainfall the fabric can take in a 24-hour period before the wearer gets wet. In Imperial terms, the Zorro Jacket can withstand nearly 33 feet of rain in 24 hours. Seattle, by comparison, gets 36 inches of rain a year."

Sep 21 2009 12:59PM

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pfnotsch

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^^but saga has 39 inches zipper length and ldc a torso length of 37,5 inches... so you can add almost 4 inches to get the zipper length... wich means over 40 inches... so i would probably sai ldc is quite a bit longer than saga....?????!!!!!!!?????!!!!

http://www.lethaldescent.com/apps/webstore/products/show/896882

...sorry for my broken english....

Sep 21 2009 1:31PM

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Thenowhereman42

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I bought saga pants and nothing from LDC, but I just don't really like the random zipper on the chest and the way it has the two buttons on the top. It looks sort of puffy too.

To be fair though Saga doesn't have an actual picture yet it probably looks better IRL.

Sep 21 2009 1:44PM

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Ralf

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look at the torso.

it doesn't seem like there are 4" left to the end of the zipper it's perhaps 2 inches.

and in my opinion saga and ldc have forced their gear to a small path.

they want to make tall outerwear but they don't want to make trenchcoats.

saga started it and ldc this year competes with XLT to have a size like sagas XL.

just my 2 cents.

Sep 21 2009 2:35PM

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lets think winter mountaineering. climbing vertical ice, rock, snow, roping up so you dont just fall off a mountain, you cling to the mtn with your shins, knees, thighs, stomach, your arms and hands are always burried in snow. you have a huge pack on making your back sweat, you have ropes rubbing you all over the place. water is leaking off ice onto you, you are working as hard as a human can work. you are giving off rediculous body heat.

if you were to do this in your holden outerwear, you are going to die. cheap 10k fabrics are nowhere near equal to a goretex proshell. sorry. your numbers are wrong, completely. they might be right in some lab but a lab is not reality. you would be sweating your ass off because you are working so hard, you will be drenched from the elements, and you will stop for a break sweating, and your core will cool off and you will die, your friends wearing goretex proshell will have nothing that they can do and still push for the summit and leave your body.

so you can keep arguing that all fabrics are the same, but when is the last time you have seen someone mountaineering seriously with a holden jacket and emo steeze pants on. your crampons would tatter holden pants to shreads knees to ankles in 10 minutes..

there is more to being outside in the winter than lapping the park or the mountain on the chairlift. and surviving insane conditions is the best feeling you can get out of life.

Sep 21 2009 3:27PM

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coolhandluke

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epic waterproof battle.

"25 psi is considered 100% waterproof" now my jacket/pants have pressure ratings? megalug that joint.

Sep 21 2009 3:34PM

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5k will get wet quick, 10k will get wet, 20k will take a while to get wet, gore tex will not get wet

most companies say this is 5k 10k 20k fabric, gore-tex says garanteed to keep you dry.

and last i knew 10,000 mm h20 proof meant that a column of water 10mm x 10mm x 10,000mm tall could rest on the fabric before it penetrated the fabric. not a measurement of 36 feet of rain falling on the coat. this is a direct measurement of the fabric. fabrics are not the same.

Sep 21 2009 3:41PM

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Kevski

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Yeah as far as my experience goes, 10k/10k isn't enough. Dunno how anyone can believe that it is 100% waterproof.

I have had 10k/10k pants and jacket that get wet pretty easily. 12k/12k pants that get kinda wet but not too bad, and 20k/20k pants and jacket that I have never ever gotten wet in. Waterproofness/breathability does matter, and you can definitely feel the differences.

Sep 21 2009 4:04PM

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I love how not everything gets read that I type. People just look for the sentence they believe they can prove wrong.

I said that these ratings were for general use. Not MOUNTAINEERING I said that Gortex is great for things like climbing and such. Yes, You want the highest waterproofing breathbility you can get if your climbing a mountain cause you are wearing the same damn thing every day. But then you are also spending $800+ on your jacket.

I was talking about skiing. Skiing is entirely different then mountaineering.

In regards to 10,000 ummmm the fabric is the same, the membrane is different. So you are calling the membrane poor quality. Many many companies make really great gear with 10,000 cause that is all that is necessary, if your stuff is getting wet, chances are it is something you did. Wash the jacket with a powder detergent then treat it with DWR. seriously.

I'm not kidding. Look it up!

And yes, your outerwear would have a pressure rating if the company tested with that. I have already stated there are different ways of testing. Just the inches of rain thing is a pretty typical one. As is PSI.

Wow. I'll say it again. Look it up. Or, if you really feel inclined read some material on the process of waterproofing fabrics cause I had to go through an 8 hour seminar on it before I could start working.

Sep 21 2009 4:48PM

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