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March, 2024

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A thread for intelligent people concerning no certain subject or rules.

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jakepwilliams
Posts: 895 - Karma: 51
here i will start it off. this was a conversation with my friend over the interwebs the other day about the "big picture".


i know the "big picture" is just to fuck bitches and get money, but finish this for us.



him-
We will wither and die after a short period of being kept content by shallow emotions, petty highs, and vain entertainers. Meanwhile, the universe will continue its unstoppable expansion and cooling until not even our meaningless existence is possible anymore.

Man, FUCK the big picture.


me-
your constricted insight into varying human motives shades the fact that some may transcend spiritual boundaries and dimensional planes to escape shallow contentment by modern falsities, not by means of petty highs, but by abysmal thought and meditation. so my point is, by no means be detoured by your LSD or your MTV, but keep your sights on enlightenment of the soul, not the souls insignificance .


him-Ah the soul. Its not a concept Ive ever subscribed to. Everything can be rationalized. Even this transcension, though a more respectable endeavor, is just the result of a change in perception. No change in the big picture.


me-
the big picture your thought embodies directly corresponds to perception of surrounding entities, so a change in perception results in a change in the big picture. as for concept of soul, life is bio-kinetic energy, and energy is neither created nor destroyed, only stored and released. so when our flesh withers and we die, our energy does not cease, but is only transfered to another suitable vessel...possibly


him-
Yea like I said its a respectable philosophy but unless our thoughts reverse the laws of chemistry and thermodynamics our energy will eventually spread too thin for vessels. And if our thoughts reflect the big picture then when that happens there will be no picture at all.


Aug 24 2009 12:14AM
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
i'm sorry, but, do you want to just fuck bitches and get rich or not?
Aug 24 2009 12:18AM
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fourhundred
Posts: 2760 - Karma: 21
i wish i knew what you guys were talking about
Aug 24 2009 12:18AM
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crazyfuck
Posts: 5968 - Karma: -7
holy shit, you're so funny.

not what you wrote, but how you look in your profile pic. seriously, those glasses make me die laughing every time i see them.
Aug 24 2009 12:21AM
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woolymammoth
Posts: 242 - Karma: 13
well your buddy is essentially right on the soul concept. If it follows the same rules of matter as everything else there is a finite amount and as the population grows soul grows thinner. So that would mean i have less sould than my dad, or my grandad etc. Unless souls are metaphysical and don't follow the rules of this dimmension.

As far as the big picture i would say we are extremely insignifigant in the scope of the universe whether the sould lives on or not, so the question is does that matter to you? Is it enough to have an effect on individual people and parts of the picture, or is it too much that on a long enough timeline your existence becomes meaningless?
Aug 24 2009 12:26AM
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AlexGaynor
Posts: 947 - Karma: 148
Wait... so is this the thread where we have a debate about evolution vs creation? without anyone representing the creationists side?
Aug 24 2009 12:26AM
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jakepwilliams
Posts: 895 - Karma: 51
no this is not about religion at all. dont bring close minded shit in here
Aug 24 2009 12:27AM
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Yeezus
Posts: 3350 - Karma: 469
hahaha i say Ew everytime i see her profile pic.
Aug 24 2009 12:29AM
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Lanceasaurus
Posts: 925 - Karma: 109
Im slightly confused...
Aug 24 2009 12:32AM
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jakepwilliams
Posts: 895 - Karma: 51
one of my ideas is that the soul can grow thinner, but if a fraction of a vessel's soul ends up in another vessel, it would be conjoined with multiple fractions of other foreign souls/energies. so each new vessel contains the remains from countless other. now, this could follow along the lines of chemistry possibly. what if this mixture of bio-kinetic substances react in a way that could potentially produce a product such as intelligent thought...
Aug 24 2009 12:34AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
souls scare me...  seriously, the idea kinda scares me.
Aug 24 2009 12:36AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
Bull fucking shit that we are "energy" when we wither and die all the neurons in our brains stop sending signals to each other and our consciousness is gone. Your hippie dualism is naive.
Aug 24 2009 12:39AM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
Having a thesaurus doesn't make you intelligent.
Aug 24 2009 12:41AM
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woolymammoth
Posts: 242 - Karma: 13
i want to start by saying when i said your buddie's right i didn't mean he actually has the answer, because there obviously is none (just to clarify)

That's an interesting concept. So essentially everyone's sould would be the combination of soul's before it and the combination would explain the things abou the human mind we don't fully understand? Do you believe that all living thigns have souls, or only tings that we have proven are capable of intelligent thought (i say proven because plants could be thinking and we just don't know it yet)
Aug 24 2009 12:42AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564

they could put us in a preassure cooker and turn us into fossil fuel which is a type of energy source..............

just saying.

Aug 24 2009 12:43AM
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jakepwilliams
Posts: 895 - Karma: 51
life is bio-kinetic energy, energy is neither created nor destroyed, i am no hippy, your drone naiveism is naive
Aug 24 2009 12:43AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
There is not a special substance to life like you say. Your entire consciousness is nothing but a collection of neurons sending electrochemical signals to one another in order to make you think  that your mind is something special. Once the body shuts down it can't send electrochemical signals like when you unplug your computer it can't operate.
Aug 24 2009 12:47AM
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[Dawn
Posts: 1718 - Karma: 69
im so lost.
Aug 24 2009 12:49AM
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Phantom
Posts: 908 - Karma: 180
yes, while your computer is unplugged, it can't operate, but the energy that used to be flowing through it (i.e. your soul) doesn't just dissapear, it gets dispersed as heat or light or whatever. so i guess you could imagine a soul just leaving as heat or light or some other form of energy and continue in that state, or continue however a soul would. not the slightest idea what that would be though.
Aug 24 2009 12:50AM
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jakepwilliams
Posts: 895 - Karma: 51
well i believe that the soul is not this personified thing that people make out to be separate from the brain, so that would make it possible for all living things to have a soul/energy. obviously in different concentrations and of entirely different magnitudes but.. yes, trees already have been proven to share large portions of genetics with us, so why not share this kind of energy with us as well?
Aug 24 2009 12:51AM
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jakepwilliams
Posts: 895 - Karma: 51
yes
Aug 24 2009 12:52AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
Fucking seriously dude? Of course trees share dna with us but that does not give them a "substance". We don't have a substance evidently. Assuming a soul is mystical and not a justifiable belief. What empirical evidence for any type of soul can you offer?


Aug 24 2009 12:55AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
I can imagine the warmth of my body leaving and insects partaking in the calories of my body. The mind might be powdered by energy just like my arms and legs, but I have yet to see evidence that it keeps doing anything after death.
Aug 24 2009 12:57AM
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Phantom
Posts: 908 - Karma: 180
the fact that you have a personality.
Aug 24 2009 12:58AM
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jakepwilliams
Posts: 895 - Karma: 51
i have absolutely no evidence. i also am not even saying i believe this. but i am considering other explanations for things other than the usual shit you are bombarded with errrday. think outside the shit you were taught in school, think beyond evidence and certainly think beyond you're path to becoming a slave to societal norms you fucking drone.
Aug 24 2009 1:00AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
A personality? That doesn't prove anything. People develop personalities because of their environment and possibly genetic dispositions. A personality doesn't prove a soul. My personality happens because of the inner workings of my brain. If I suffer a head trauma and my personality changes greatly did I just receive a new soul?
Aug 24 2009 1:02AM
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woolymammoth
Posts: 242 - Karma: 13
Why does there have to be empirical evidence for something like a soul. This isn't like the evolution/creationism thread where one side has a stronger case than the other. There is no evidences taht soul's either exist or don't. I find it interesting that most all religions ever have believed in a soul of sorts so maybe there is somethign to it, or maybe because when we stop thinking when we die all pieces of our existance must seize
Aug 24 2009 1:02AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
Oh no you think I learn this from school and everyday life? 9/10 of my library is philosophy books by guys who are already dead. I adhere to occams razor in my beliefs and a soul is unnecessary and unjustifiable.




Aug 24 2009 1:05AM
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jakepwilliams
Posts: 895 - Karma: 51
evidence is just another word for "government approved"


Aug 24 2009 1:07AM
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SteezyasPie
Posts: 1160 - Karma: 15
this thread gives me a headache...
Aug 24 2009 1:10AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
because it isn't needed to explain anything. It is just an assumption, a bad one at that. It could exist, I give you that, but it doesn't give me any reasons to think it does.

All religions are formed out of the same fears about death. People need explanations so dualism is convenient.

Now we know a great deal more about how our brains and minds actually work so we  can exorcise the :"ghost within the machine" idea that has proliferated through western thought the last few centuries.
Aug 24 2009 1:10AM
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jakepwilliams
Posts: 895 - Karma: 51
so.... do you come up with any of your own philosophical beliefs... or do you just follow whatever some dead guy wrote in your "library"?

your mind sounds square to me... shaped and molded
Aug 24 2009 1:10AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
Haha wow, Are you kidding? So the last president bush who was a huge ass christian wanted to hide the evidence for the soul?
Ok seriously I just strawmanned you , but thats what it sounded like.
Aug 24 2009 1:11AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
Its called skepticism. I would rather be in doubt than poison my mind with silly preconceived conclusions. There is a lot of crazy shit we don't know and it is probably a lot better than superstitious explanations.
Aug 24 2009 1:12AM
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woolymammoth
Posts: 242 - Karma: 13
I feel like confining the soul to religion is unnecessary. I am deeply unreligious, i believe that for all the good it has caused there has been atleast twice as much harm, but why not contemplate the possibility of a soul. What has science shown us that drives our conscience? Perhaps the social mores of our time just drive the thoughts that make up a conscience into our heads from such a young age that what is right and wrong becomes second nature, or maybe there is a soul.

I'm not saying you should believe in the soul, i don't, but why not opn your mind to other ideas. the only way to hold real beliefs is to put them up to scrutiny
Aug 24 2009 1:19AM
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jakepwilliams
Posts: 895 - Karma: 51
now its just starting to sound like youre backed into a corner and youre just firing off stupid remarks. i dont know what "strawmanned" means, but this thread wasnt to bitch with someone about whos beliefs are right, its for people that wanted to just converse about whatever far out possibilities could exist. unintelligent people tend to believe whatever is easiest for their shallow minds to grasp, and that usually is what the schools, churches, and government have to say. nothing new is ever introduced to the masses. so if you can get your mind out of robot mode, leave
Aug 24 2009 1:21AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
The soul is a metaphysical question and metaphysics have been dead for over 100 years. There are I believe genetically ingrained universal morals in people, though they do not always follow them much like there are probably universal language standards. These are part of the brain and part of what makes us human.

Aug 24 2009 1:27AM
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woolymammoth
Posts: 242 - Karma: 13
what does that mean metaphysics has been dead for over 100 years? so for the last 100 years nobody's been pondering if or what exists beyond this physical spectrum and world? because apparantley this thread is in the wrong century.

As for the second part I've always found it odd that morals be genetic. In my opinion i believe that there are certain morals that come about from emotion. Such as we form attatchment to people, we are sad when we lose this attatchment so we don't like death. We don't like death so killing is wrong. But other morals that have changed since the beginning of mankind, like polygamy is wrong, are more just forced upon us from the moment we're born by society
Aug 24 2009 1:32AM
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2+2=5
Posts: 3676 - Karma: 18
you can't use science to prove of a spiritual soul or conciousness because science deals with the physical plane of existance, while consciousness is beyond that physical plane. i don't believe in a personified God or religion, but i do think that there is an energy that we share with humans, animals, and  plants spread across the universe. everything is concious, but there are different levels of conciousness. some levels above our own, and some much below.

a pretty chilling fact that i read today was that buddhists believe that it takes 49 days after death to reincarnate your soul into a new body. it also takes 49 days for the sexual reproductive organs and the pineal gland (your third eye, google it) to develop in a fetus.
Aug 24 2009 1:34AM
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crazyfuck
Posts: 5968 - Karma: -7
are you kidding me? this is more wildly entertaining than every religious and political thread combined and we aren't even at page two yet! it's a sick combination of deep thinking and extreme retardation sprinkled with a pinch of marijuana-induced pondering and the results... oh, the results are just magnificent! people taking an authoritative voice as though they've though long and hard, read many great books, and spoken to scholars near and far about souls and the energy that sustains life... only to barf comments such as "evidence is another way to say 'government approved'" or whatever it was. it's like watching monkeys throw shit all over a Picasso!

keep going, NSG, you're making my night!
Aug 24 2009 1:34AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
Me backing into a corner? You are the one who called evidence only what eh government wants us to know. That is a fucking classic conspiracy theorist quote.

You stopped trying to prove your arguement for the soul and just came out with an ad hominem calling me a "fucking drone". You have the self mighty attitude that you are smart and have an intelligent thread.

You have backed into the corner of saying that I am "baha shallow minded only believes schools, churches, and government" when actually I am quite the opposite. I believe that our minds are purely physical and can be explained by science and that freewill is just an illusion. I don't subscribe to fantastic answers to the big questions like souls because they don't offer any good reason for me to believe in them.
Aug 24 2009 1:35AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
I just submitted
"evidence is just another word for "government approved""
To conspiracy theorists say the darndest things.
That had to be the best one I have ever heard.
Aug 24 2009 1:38AM
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Frank_Spinatra
Posts: 1203 - Karma: 75
williamz apparently has a soul made up of the energies of only condescending pricks.
Aug 24 2009 1:45AM
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woolymammoth
Posts: 242 - Karma: 13
So you don't believe in the soul, so correct me if i'm wrong but you probably don't believe in god, and you also don't believe in free will. That's so wierd to me. I've never met anyone who either doesn't believe in the sould but believes in god, or doesn't believe in god and believes there is no free will
Aug 24 2009 1:46AM
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crazyfuck
Posts: 5968 - Karma: -7
this thread is priceless. the ultimate irony being that it's "for intelligent people"... uh-huh, suuuuure.
Aug 24 2009 1:49AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
Do you believe in cause and effect? That if i do something there will be a consequence? I just believe that everything is like that. We all have volition and desires. If our desires are consistent with our actions the illusion of freewill is there.
Aug 24 2009 1:52AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
its like version two of the evolution thread...  minus OhMyBosh, me, and a cople other key people.
Aug 24 2009 1:53AM
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woolymammoth
Posts: 242 - Karma: 13
so you believe that everything is just a gigantic dominos chain?
Makes sense, but i chose not to subscribe to that theory on the basis of without free will i essentially don't have the power to even change my own life let alone someon elses or anything beyond that and i like to imagine that my decisions can make even a small difference, not that everythign is already layed out ahead of me
Aug 24 2009 1:56AM
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woolymammoth
Posts: 242 - Karma: 13
Also, sorry for the double post but the only thing i noticed after like page 2 of the evolution thread was OhMyBosh saying "THERE'S NO EVIDENCE AGAINST EVOLUTION IT'S A FUCKING FACT AND YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT IF YOU SAY OTHERWISE. GIVE ME A PIECE OF AN ARGUMENT SO I CAN CALL YOU IGNORANT AND THEN JUST TELL YOU TO WATCH A YOUTUBE VIDEO MADE BY SOME DUDE FOR HIS BIO FINAL AND TELL YOU THAT YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND ME"
Aug 24 2009 1:58AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
I hold indeterminism in high esteem, though I am not sure if it is true. Electrons are indeterminate particles which can be anywhere within a wavelength, human nature may be like that too. The yes and nos of our thoughts could be changed simply by one atom being somewhere in a cell in a neuron influencing a decision.
That is a bit of conjecture though, because I don't know enough of neurology or quantum physics to speak intelligently on it.
Aug 24 2009 2:06AM
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woolymammoth
Posts: 242 - Karma: 13
Well i would doubt that the switch from yes to no in our minds can be random. I don't know alot about how the brain works either, but i know that in order for a neuron to fire there has to be a change in the concentration gradient of calcium ions across the neurotransmitter, which means that multiple atoms all have to move in the same direction. For this to happen across hundreds of neurons seems like the brain would have the intention of doing so, but i really no almost nothing about this so it's just speculation
Aug 24 2009 2:15AM
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