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If you don't believe in the Theory of Evolution, you're an idiot.

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Jibbidy
Posts: 787 - Karma: 19
It seems not just anybody can wrap their mind around this simple concept.  Have a better explanation as to how we came to be, that will then contradict all scientific evidence brought to the table, ever?
Aug 20 2009 3:53AM
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Jibbidy
Posts: 787 - Karma: 19
Wrong, partly.

1. Not all fossils stay preserved.
2. Not all fossils survive geological changes.
3. They have many fossils of intermediate species.  You can't expect them to find every one.
4. Such evolution from a "lizard to bird" takes millions and millions of years.  See #1 and #2.
5. Empiricism is present in the absence of faith. 
6. The environment often changes too rapidly for a species to adapt to the changes, and thus, they go extinct.
7. Natural selection not only happens within a particular species, but over many species.  Human beings have kept up and we remain the dominant species.  Countless species have gone extinct throughout the course of human evolution.  See #6.
Aug 20 2009 1:33PM
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think_a_little
Posts: 5 - Karma: 10
Seen it, thats their best defense, obviously has features or characteristics of a reptile and a bird.

But once again that is a mature functioning animal.

Do you believe that at every point in the change from reptile to bird that its legs and or wings were fully functional? was it capable of flight over night?

not a chance
Aug 20 2009 1:33PM
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860
Posts: 2930 - Karma: 166
I'm not gunna take sides here but your version of "evolution" is not how evolution works, sorry =/
Aug 20 2009 1:34PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
Is an ostrich a bird ?
can it fly?
can it survive in the wild ?
Aug 20 2009 1:34PM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
And that is the problem with having a debate on evolution with a creationist.
Aug 20 2009 1:38PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Did you know that mods can see what other accounts you have?

This thread is fucking stupid. All you pretentious fucking 16-year-olds that have taken one high school philosophy class should stop spewing bullshit. This thread is bullshit, half the responses are incredibly sarcastic. The other half is bullshit.

If you are trying to argue against creationism, you look like an absolute fool because NO ONE HERE BELIEVES THAT SHIT.
Aug 20 2009 1:43PM
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think_a_little
Posts: 5 - Karma: 10
so explain then, how did legs change to wings? skin to feather?

did the creature walk good enough to hunt food and evade predators right until the moment he could fly?

enlighten me
Aug 20 2009 1:45PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
If you are trying to argue against evolution, you look like a complete fool, because everyone on here believes that.

I believe this is your point...
Aug 20 2009 1:46PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Nah, I'm talking about the alias that wrote a fucking novel about evolution.
Aug 20 2009 1:48PM
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popNfresh44
Posts: 3757 - Karma: 44
species evolved, but the universe was created.
Aug 20 2009 1:49PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Scratch that, I decided to attempt to read his bullshit. You were correct, God. Figures.
Aug 20 2009 1:50PM
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Jibbidy
Posts: 787 - Karma: 19
Read the the thread title everybody.
Aug 20 2009 1:50PM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
How about you go to college and take a biology class instead of asking about it on the internet? It's not like we're lying to you or anything. This is shit that's taught at the most basic levels of University classes.
Aug 20 2009 1:50PM
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Calvin.
Posts: 771 - Karma: 10
This is what pisses me off about a lot of people on here. They preach over and over again to be open minded, accept others' beliefs and to not stereotype, and then make a statement like "if you don't believe in the theory of evolution, you're an idiot". What's up with that? you don't believe in the Theory of Evolution, you're an idioou don't believe in the Theory of Evolution, you're an idiot.
Aug 20 2009 1:51PM
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Jibbidy
Posts: 787 - Karma: 19
But the point I try to make is that the theory of evolution is far more scientifically backed to be labeled a "belief".  It is just the way things are.  The majority of people are simply too undereducated to understand, not "believe", in it.
Aug 20 2009 1:56PM
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Calvin.
Posts: 771 - Karma: 10
that's what i meant. screwed it up the first time
Aug 20 2009 1:57PM
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bdieter1d3
Posts: 279 - Karma: 15
How about this. No one knows the answer. . . you can't prove it right or wrong. It is a theory, not a fact. It is something we will probably never know the correct answer too
Aug 20 2009 1:58PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
Evolution by natural selection occurred, is occurring and will occur. It is fact. /thread.

Some of you should read Darwin's On the Origin of Species and enlighten yourselves.
Aug 20 2009 2:00PM
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think_a_little
Posts: 5 - Karma: 10
thats a great way to skirt around the issue. and the problem is, they dont explain how or why a leg would change to a wing,  they simply state thats what must have happened.

you cant possibly believe that a creature changing from having 4 legs and crawls to an upright standing creature with 2 legs and 2 wings was a fully functional creature.

the millions of years it took to change from a mature lizard to the final product of a bird leaves the creature at serious risk of going extinct

Aug 20 2009 2:01PM
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Calvin.
Posts: 771 - Karma: 10
undereducated isn't the word i would use but whatever. my point is that it is fairly hypocritical and frankly disrespectful to make such a statement as the thread title.
Aug 20 2009 2:03PM
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Jibbidy
Posts: 787 - Karma: 19
That book would shut everyone up if it could fit into a post.
Aug 20 2009 2:07PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
Your first point: the leg argument.
i contradict this with the striking similarity in skeletal structure between archeopterix and small prehistoric lizards/dinos

Second point, the feathers:

Maybe dinos were depicted as giant lizards, but in fact were giant feathery chickens ....
feathers might have been a much older evolutionary step then you might think....

then the third argument: the being able to escape predators, while lookin like a bird but not being able to fly (thats what i believe you insinuate) i
ostrich and chicken ?

im not gonna debate extensively, i just happen to study geology and i find it hard to not react to the ignorance of people like you, especially how you can reject perfectly fine theories or how you come up with the craziest arguments and explanations.....
Aug 20 2009 2:07PM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
Yeah they kinda do. We've observed so many little changes in the blip of time we've been at the level of evolution we are at now. Comprehending a big change like that over millions of years really isn't that hard if you think about it from a neutral perspective.
Aug 20 2009 2:07PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation

^Why is that so hard to understand?
Aug 20 2009 2:10PM
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mike91129
Posts: 777 - Karma: 43
I agree with you but the other side will just say "read so and so's book". Just agree to disagree is the best option in this case. It's a never ending arguemnet that will get no one anywhere important.

It is very interesting to consider the merrits of each side but NS is really not the place to have said discussion, it's too full of 16 year old testosterone fueled retallitions that include very little educated thought.
Aug 20 2009 2:12PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species

^Welcome to the wonder that is Wikipedia.
Aug 20 2009 2:13PM
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Calvin.
Posts: 771 - Karma: 10
it seems to me like you misunderstood his point. i believe his point was that in the inbetween stages, the leg/wing is useless as either one. the creature can not use them to fly or to walk because they are not fully formed as either a leg or a wing. this would render the creature very vulnerable to natural selection. if the creature is so vulnerable in it's inbetween stages, how did it continue to survive and go on to become a bird?



Aug 20 2009 2:20PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
i cannot wait until the day that we evolve beyond having to argue about this.
Aug 20 2009 2:21PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
They occured at first as a deformation: let's say bigger front paws, this could have had its advantages: bigger paws make you look more badass, you can scare predators away, you can pick up sexy girl dinosaurs, etc...
then it evolved to even bigger stuff, real wings lets say, but not for flying; it's a lizard, it cant fly.

how could it survive?

how can a peacock survive ?

it used it to attract females or maybe it allready used its deformed paws to fladder while moving around, like a chicken, maybe it could jump higher with these "wings", that would've def. be an advantage!
then it jumped up and down branches, etc. in the end learning how to glide/ fly .....

for more theory: buy a book/follow a paleontology/biology class!
Aug 20 2009 2:25PM
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Biscotti
Posts: 100 - Karma: 10
This thread is perfect proof that God gave us free will, believe what you want "know" what you think to know. If animals changed fine. We have genetic and DNA indifferences no living thing is the same. God put Adam and Eve on the Earth that he as well put here. Your Darwin book is younger then the bible. The bible were documented facts that happened. Nothing was interpreted and written down it happened they took note.
Aug 20 2009 2:28PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
but the new testament was written at the same time as the old testament. everybody knows that.
Aug 20 2009 2:29PM
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mike91129
Posts: 777 - Karma: 43
On a completley unrelated note:

Click for larger image
Aug 20 2009 2:33PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
i believe the ewoks captured this one....
Aug 20 2009 2:36PM
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860
Posts: 2930 - Karma: 166
Evolution would obviously never inhibit an animal, thats why its called evolution, once your able to comprehend the english language maybe then you could try talking about the theory of evolution
Aug 20 2009 2:40PM
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Big_Spence
Posts: 16177 - Karma: 4,352
Click for larger image
Aug 20 2009 2:41PM
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860
Posts: 2930 - Karma: 166
This is the problem within this argument, people who believe in the theory of evolution will provide recent and vast amounts of valid scientific evidence. Creationists will site a however old book with no more backing than saying god did it. That negates any argument's either side could have because in reality (not putting anyone down don't cry) the situation is proof versus he told me so, this is exactly what this argument boils down to. If you want to believe in Creationism that's fine, just realize scientists will never believe a book that has no proof behind it, because as much as anyone wants to argue, I doubt anyone was homies with jesus so you do not know what really happened. People of faith have blind trust, which is not to say that's a bad thing, but that's all they have in terms of any substantial arguments.
Aug 20 2009 2:49PM
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woolymammoth
Posts: 242 - Karma: 13
But it wasn't like two chamelons fucked and started producing bird hybrids.
Modern day lizards and birds come from a common ancestor, so (just a possibility) imagine an animal that walks on two legs and is scaly like a lizzard. Some of the offspring begin to develop a type of wing that allows them to jump higher, and some of the offspring develop their front arms into more leg like features that allow them to run faster. The ones that can jump higher and run faster will be able to reach more resources than the ones like the parents.

Slowly the ones that began to develop wings would develop feathers and flight, and the one that begand to develop front legs would loose the ability to stand upright and would become like modern day animals

That is an extremely oversimplified version of the theory of evolution, but we come from common ancestors, not from monkeys or lizards or anything
Aug 21 2009 1:21AM
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ManOnTheMoon
Posts: 515 - Karma: 17
who is god?
Aug 21 2009 1:23AM
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Frank_Spinatra
Posts: 1203 - Karma: 75
The episode of the Simpsons about this topic was just one...damn-diddily-am you Flanders
Aug 21 2009 1:31AM
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Funnel
Posts: 7808 - Karma: 1,414
Thread is a mess already.  So glad I stayed out of this shit.
Aug 21 2009 1:41AM
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.thedude
Posts: 292 - Karma: 16
i'm gonna say this once, pay attention, it's kinda important.

it doesn't matter. not even a little bit.

any data or observation can be manipulated and twisted around to make it say whatever you want, so people will continue to believe what they believe, regardless of anything somebody has to say.

it's not particularly important how we got here. it really only matters that we are here.
Aug 21 2009 1:56AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
ssssoooo many people talking like they wrote 8 thesis's for a PHD on Evolution and Creationism...  goddamn.
Aug 21 2009 2:28AM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,356
.
Aug 21 2009 2:31AM
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thelizards
Posts: 4042 - Karma: 43
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Aug 21 2009 2:55AM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
Why does evolution always turn into a religious debate? It shouldn't be a religious debate at all; evolution is perfectly compatible with religion. Why is that so hard for radical Christian extremists (who take the Bible literally) to understand?

DISCLAIMER: PLEASE DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A RELIGION DEBATE THREAD. PLEASE KEEP IT ON THE TOPIC OF EVOLUTION. THIS POST IS A SIDE COMMENT.
Aug 21 2009 2:56AM
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SKIDUBAIGUY
Posts: 3018 - Karma: 8
Buddy, just to let you know, the t rex, the velicoraptor and other similar dinosaurs are all standing up lizards, look, here is how it worked :

Lizard-
Click for larger image

Standing up lizard-

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Flying Lizard-

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Bird-

Click for larger image

Evolution- 1 You- 0
Aug 21 2009 2:57AM
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Gnarwall
Posts: 1180 - Karma: 50
I'm just gonna leave this here and walk away.

http://books.google.com/books?id=YY4EAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=origin+of+species#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Aug 21 2009 3:06AM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
just going to add this retarded thought of mine



any body that believes in survival of the fittest (such as myself) should not beileve in social healthcare
Aug 21 2009 3:15AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
true, on one side social healthcare and hospitals are a great thing, but on the other side i question myself on where the human race is going?

then i start to think further in terms of artifical DNA mutations instead of survival of the fittest in order to keep evolving...
Aug 21 2009 3:21AM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,356
Sex & War
Aug 21 2009 4:49AM
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