Rant: Let's step back for a minute...

i dont care what a women has to say.

that was uncalled for.

this is neither the time or place for this type of post, good luck though

I apologize. I'm sorry I'm just not political is what I ment  to say.

anytime is the time to try and get people to try and think for themselves... even if it is a bunch of young skiers who would rather talk about scene girls or sammy carlson's new movie.

what if im thinking for myself, and i think we should bomb the shit out of iraq and take their gas, nuke north korea and iran, and everyone should drive a hummer and clear cut rainforests, then are you ok with me thinking for myself

go kill yourself

i was fucking with you too, but seriously dont pull the "What can YOU do for AMERICA! today" bullshit. what are you doing? what gives you the right to tell me what to do?

im sorry. theres nothing anyone can do.

we're way too far to turn things around

I like that you like the constitution, I think that's somewhere to start. Maybe read it a little more and then revise your post.

"We can and must be the change we want and NEED to see in this world. In just 10 years, by the leadership of one STRONG man, an entire nation was inspired to push for what we all deemed impossible"

Like I'm not very sure what you're talking about here? The only person who was president for more than 10 years was FDR and I wouldn't exactly call him strong and he didn't really do anything that people deemed "impossible. But that's another place you should brush up on the constitution, we aren't really meant to be lead by one person.

Don't get me wrong, your hearts in the right place. You just need to get a little better handle on the facts and see where that takes you.

to quote the words that first jumped to my head when i read through this thread

true terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country
 - K. Vonnegut


i know a lot of you are a bit younger, and as exampled by the first post, perhaps way too immature to grasp the challenge being made to our generation. To pinch  a question from Bill Maher, What ambitious goal have we reached since the events 40 years ago?

I agree with his conclusion, there hasn't been anything very notable -- actually i'll amend this and say that the internet was a great achievement... However, this is still an outgrowth from the 1960s, and if we are to look at achievements made since the moon landings, I'd say that our internet usage hasn't produced anything outstanding.

It is true that our generation isn't in power yet, in the formal sense at least; we're too young to be policy makers,  elected officials, powerful corporate heads, however, if we look at the corporate attention being spent on us, i think it's an undeniable  truth that we play an important roll in making things happen in our world today.

In other words: WE DO HAVE A POWER! It's certainly not unified, and it's easily manipulated -- given away in exchange for labels of coolness, popularity, and other modes of self gratification, but it is there.

I just hope that we recognize there are serious problems in the world that need to be addressed, that we realize there are sacrifices that need to be made in order to address these problems, and that there are noble and worth reasons that can support us in our own quest for greatness.

to return to my original quote of Vonnegut, I hope that I do not have to fear the day when my peers are in power (in the formal sense); that we as a generation realize and actualize our potential for greatness.  I want to love my country and I want to be proud of accomplishing good.

I'm not exactly sure how to end this, but i guess i'll just say I'm here I'm ready, and I'm willing, are you?

a woman cant talk about man power...shes a woman

THE40HOBART$ and r-o-dubs have both been banned for a week. We're done with the sexist jokes, too many complaints, so let this be a warning to everyone else.

boom. roasted.

I read like 2 paragraphs and agreed with that moon stuff, we need to get stuff done.

I remember when there were about 5 girls on NS and everyone knew who they were, and the sexist jokes ran like milk and honey. It's a good thing though, about time most of these kids grew up. And it's nice to know there's lots and lots of pretty girls who ski.

good. they arent funny anymore

i could read this and maybe get smarter. but im a lazy fuck

agreed strongly.

AGREED MORE STRONGLY.

What I meant is that, yes, JFK died quickly into his presidency, but he set forth amazing goals for that decade to achieve.  At the beginning of the 1960's he said that "by the end of this decade we will put a man on the moon and return him safely."  1969 he did just that.

Currently our government is only asking for 10% energy efficiency by 2020 (quoted from www.aceee.org/energy/national/nrgleg.htm).  I would like to be optimistic and think that if our leadership put more focus and resources on this that we could achieve more and achieve it in less time.

My overall idea here is not to TELL you that you MUST do something, but rather to implore if there are any other youths and young adults who feel inclined to DO something about any of the worlds or even our own communities larger problems.

little_ey,  + karma for being an asset to this community and for being a worthwhile, freethinking human being haha. 

I think you are 100% correct.  I think America has potential to be the greatest nation.  But sadly we are not.  However we are the greatest empire.  Today's society is in such a watered down state that the majority of the population will not realize the the desperate times we face until the absolute brink of collapse.  By that time it may be too late.

Why is it looked down upon to be openly patriotic?   What happened to kids wanting to be astronauts and scientists?  What happened to being a contributing member society.  Everyone is worried about getting famous and shit.  It's sad.  It really is.

It's almost like where we are technologically everyone looks at it like.  "Shit, we won.  We made it to the final level.  There's no more work.  No more discoveries.  SHIT! where's my iphone???"  hahaha just my 2 cents.

i'm not hating on you here or anything, but I'm having problems trying to figure out what exactly you intend to do, and what you want us to do. You are being extremely open with your whole "we need to change" thing. What is wrong, what needs to change, and how can we change it?

It's that last part that is of most importance. Most free thinkers in our society are fully aware of what is wrong, and what needs to change (for the most part). Lately though, I've been having a big problem with people preaching about "change" without giving an option of said change. We can't keep saying that you, me, we, whoever is doing it wrong without trying to help said person/people(s) and guide them towards what we believe is a solution. Nothing will get done by pointing fingers, nothing will get done by generalizing issues and people. I don't know how to end this without writing pages and pages of what I believe we should do to make change, and I don't intend to do that right now - it's not the time, or the place - so I will just end it with a period... .

You know what i find funny?
The people driving prius's and "going green" arent the people that say I love america (for the most part)
The you go down south to like alabama or texas, and you see these people saying "i love america, i love my home land, we're the best, don't mess with texas (or america)" and shit like that, they are patriotic. Yet at the same time, they are the ones in the oil business or driving 5mpg pick up trucks and not recycling and things like that

shits backwards when you look at it...
basically, as much as we want change, everyone is going to think "i dont have the time or the patients to recycle or "go green", one person won't matter anyway, i will just let someone else do it"
except everyonen thinks that way, and no one gets anything done, and no one will

you have a very warped view about what it means to love america

just because someone is a liberal (which, i gather is what you mean when you generalize that all prius drivers don't love america) and they don't support drilling for oil, or the policies of torture, the wars, and whatever else you think equals 'not loving america' doesn't, in fact, mean they don't love america.

most people who dissent with the ideas coming out of Washington, in the whole spectrum of political thought, usually do so based on the core concept of what they believe is best for their country. If they didn't have patriotism, they wouldn't care about any of the politics, certainly not enough to spend the time to form an opinion about a politician's actions.

i think it needs to be brought to attention that one problem that has been created as of late, is the idea that simply saying ' i love america' in the way you describe constitutes true patriotism. Having unquestioning faith about the way our country gets run and that waving a flag equals patriotism.

That is not true, and shouldn't ever be true...

I understand your reasoning here.

so what can we do?  i don't want to tell anyone what to do, because i believe that we all have enough creativity inside us to make our own choices... look at Alpine Initiative for example.

For me, I'm trying to work change from within the system.  I'm currently in my second year of my term on my local school board.  And if that is to be a choice for other young adults I'd recommend that as a solution.  I think that getting more younger folk involved within the electoral system could possible work wonders.  The bureaucratic mess to go through does suck, but after a while you do start to notice positive change from your policies.

communism......it works!

it appears as though the most recent former president of the united states is on NS.

we must be popular.

fuuuuuuuck my cover is blown

As an Architecture Student I want to see an emphasis on Vertical Farming.

Its up and coming, but it still has not caught on yet.

The basic idea is to take unused Urban buildings and create massive, multi-story green houses, with the use of Hydroponics.  I don't know how many of you are familiar with Hydroponics, but i think it has a lot more potential than it is given, other than growing marijuana.  Take a look at the Epcot Center at Disney world.  Vertical farming would bring life into decaying Urban areas, and create a more self-suficient community.

Also, I drove through Kanasas a couple weeks ago, and thought, look at all this wasted space!  Why not Grow the crops vertically, and use the rest of the land for wind power?  They certainly have alot of wind there.
Considerations would have to be made for tornados, and all the structures could change the weather patterns, but im sure it is somthing we could figure out.

I know this would cause an uproar with the farming communities, and the world economy in general, so some bugs would have to be worked out on the political side of things, but i think it could be a great inovation.

I think this is a great thread topic, because i have been noticing this as well.  I have heard a lot of other opinions on this topic and i think the mind set is spreading. 

In refrence to the vonegut quote I think this generation has somthing to look forward to.  As far I am aware there are many progressive thinkers right now and i think somthing is brewing.

We've discussed vertical farming in some our theory classes and just studios in general, but it hasn't caught on (yet) because it is super cost intensive, especially considering you need way more growing area within the tower to be the equivalent to a parcel of land and the need for adequate light. So far, it is akin to a lot of the solar and wind power push: it's a great idea, but it cannot readily pay for itself without astronomical amounts of money poured into it, and even then it is more of a siphon for cash.

Personally, I like the idea, to an extent. Hydoponic nutrient methods are pretty cool, too. But there is an advantage with existing lands.




As for the thread creator, you sound like the kind of person that would be in high school, actively participating in many clubs, going around saying a bunch of stuff, feel good that you're fighting for something but not really doing anything. You're full of words. While I agree with some of the sentiment, you kind of unabashed vagueness is what really leads to nothing.

Actually I am a graduate school student at the University of Colorado School of Public Affairs and an elected member of the Summit Co. School Board.  Being vague in examples for current global complications is an opportunity for others to deduce what they want from my own opinion to foster their own thoughts on the subject.

So you feel that the problem that our generation has to face and overcome is Climate Change? And that this is comparable to the space race during the 60's? This a little scary to me because though I'm not a Climate Change denier, there are so many flaws in the theory, especially when it comes to the human aspect of it that I think trying to make policy to combat it or anything like that could be very dangerous and costly.

Though still your heart is in the right place. If you really wanted to make real change I would suggest working in Capital markets, becoming a venture capitalist or an investment banker (not for one of the To Big To Fails clearly). Then you would be able to work on the ground level with projects that you think will be able to revolutionize the world we live in, like carbon sequester technology, or green fuels like bio diesel from algae. Though then again since the Feds have basically become a massive subsidy machine you could just work for them and subsidize those processes. But it is a lot more noble and you are a lot more dedicated to the cause if you are willing to back projects with your/your investors money than with the money of the taxpayers.  

um hate to break it to you all, but the "America Experiment" was bound to fail from the beginning.

You think that using gasoline makes you less patriotic? I guess if you thought that send money to the Saudis for gas makes you hate your country you'd be right, but we get the majority of our oil from Canada , Venezuela, and Mexico not to mention right here at home. In fact these people who you've labeled unpatriotic (because they don't have the same views on the environment as you do) are pushing to get us off foreign oil by expanding drilling and exploration here at home. 

wait.. you're still a student and you're on the school board?  mad props for doin big things. 

i think we should finish what we started and claim all of that sweet middle eastern black honey.

But we are also melting the planet, so after we recoup that few trillion that we're in debt for, lets work on making solar panels more efficient, and less harmful to build

so, what? you consider yourself a motivational speaker without giving people any actual information? a muse by inspiring inner thought?


and as for me and what I believe should be done... well, I've expressed a lot of my opinions on the world in my blog (on NS), but everything hasn't really fallen into place for me until around mid winter (February to be exact). I now have my idea as to what direction humanity should go to keep this planet in a state that is ideal for human life to prosper. Unfortunately, from the sounds of it - it goes against your ideas and beliefs... What I believe has to happen is pretty extreme, and unless I sit down with you and go over my thoughts over a couple of beers you'll probably think I'm stupid... but I'll give you the overall outline just for shits and giggles.

The political systems of the world today don't work, you gotta ask yourself "why, ever 4 years, do i make a decision as to who gets to make my decisions for me?" Living in a country as big and culturally diverse as Canada, it makes even less sense to have one governing party (or three) decide what is best for the entire nation. Especially, when the best they seam to come up with is outsourcing everything we have to foreign investors because it makes the most sense, business wise. Combine that with the problems of the economy, over spending, over consuming, and the great corporate world and their uncontrolled growth. Even CEO's of some of the major corporations in North America (including those in the Oil Industry) say they would like to see changes made, and harsher restrictions set against themselves by the government, but until that happens, they will keep doing what they are doing. It is a very retarded and childish way of going about things, but that's the nature of a corporation. It is bigger than the individuals running it, so those individuals have little power over the corporation, if they don't make as much money as possible, as fast as possible for the share holders, the company will find someone who will, and they will find themselves without a job.

How can this change? Eliminate the three party system, eliminate all national and provincial political systems, all of it except the Senate. The Senate will have no real power, but instead will only be able to pass laws based on the say of the individuals in their regions. the larger the region of people that agree on something, the larger the area the law will cover. think of it as a bunch of by-laws that could potentially be nation wide. We would probably have to use the internet (and why wouldn't we) so that everyone in the nation can keep informed and up to date on the issues across the land, and vote accordingly on the problems that need to be addressed. It will be a political system fully put upon the general public and their specific wants, needs, and beliefs.

In order for things to really change though, you need more than just that - you need to eliminate money, and not just money, but you can't replace it with a bartering system. You need complete destruction of value of objects compared to other objects.

Now, As I said, I could write a whole novel as to why I believe these two ideas (theories?) need to happen, and even without my help, I do believe that they will eventually happen to a certain extent... but it seams that as of right now, no one outside of the Kootenay's (especially the majority of folk here on NS) are not even close to ready to accept my ideas as plausible.

If you are interested in hearing about what I have to say in greater detail, I could elaborate, but maybe not in the forums.

when i say "global complications" I am not strictly referring to climate change.  I am expanding "global complications" to malnutrition, HIV/AIDS, malaria, growing economic discrepancies, loss of biodiversity, nuclear proliferation, etc. 

you know - it's impossible for the States to get out of debt, unless each and every one of you forfeits every penny you claim to own leaving you with nothing.

Okay I see, I think we share the same prospective in that way  though I think we are on oppisite ends of the spectrume on how those things should be dealt with. I'm an Anarcho-Capitalist saying that I believe government (not just ours, all government) and its actions are the root of most of the problems we have and that the solution is a free society that engages in a free market. To learn more if you'd like go here http://mises.org. It seems like you subscribe very heavily to the mindset that governments should and can confront and deal with these problems. Personally I think this is impossible, but I wish you luck in your quest to better the world because it is a noble intention even though I think your methods are less than that.

you are right.  many of these conversations do require face to face interactions where inflections and tones can be better determined and actual debate can occur.

and whether or not i gave any "actual" information or facts, and despite the controversial ideas being passed here, there has been discussion.  You have just stated your own views for change, as have other people in this thread.  Ultimately, whether or not you think I did this productively, conversation was brought up about some creative ways that we can all engage ourselves.  Sure we can't do it all ourselves and I'm sure everyone will have their own ideas as to which method of change will be most productive.  This is great; they should have their own ideas and they should pursue them if they can.  Obviously my own opinion on how we all need to start doing something is not going to be the same as everyone elses... especially those who are male and probably in a different age demographic too, but that's the glory of human individuality.

Drail ^ I liked your post up until you thought we should eliminate money and objects value. This is insane, money is one of the most important things in human societies any where at any time. It makes it possible to exchange your labor for the labor of another person. Destroying money and prices would have disastrous effects and actually just would never happen, people will always use money no matter what. It is about as human as cooking our food with heat.

It is impossible. Based on our political system, a party gets voted in on some key points in their political plan. Usually based around making more jobs, more money, better health care, lower taxes, you know all the stuff that sounds great at the time. But our economy is an interestingly unpredictable thing it seams. So when things don't go according to plan, after 4 years some other party gets voted in, with pretty much the same plan as the one they just replaced, just worded differently.

It sucks because the issues that are actually important are going to take a bit of time to tackle... when a party gets voted in and they probably won't go after the hard problems at first, it could take them until their second term in office before they really even start to put words into actions as far as the issues go... and in all reality, these issues will take a couple years to truly get the results we need... the odds of a political party remaining in power long enough to successfully make a change in this world before they are replaced by another party and their plans, even if they are past the theory stage and are actually starting to happen, get the axe because the new party doesn't think it should happen in that way, they'll do it a different way thank you very much.


ok, I think i might have made that a little confusing, and if I did confuse you, I am sorry, but the general idea behind the flaw in our political system is there, if you can decipher what I just wrote.

But it's not just a problem with our specific political system, though that is a problem. The real problem is that governments will never be able to effectively allocate resources. Like in combating climate change (if it can be or needs to be combated) the only thing the government can do is to use force to make people do things. The resources it allocates to try to solve the problem will ultimately be put in the wrong places and for the wrong reasons. If you really want to solve a problem it's imperative that you allocate the resources to fight it in the right places and the only way to do that is through a free market and the price system.   

This statement is in no way true. I dont know where you got this idea?

you'd probably be surprised YACHT to find that I do agree with you in that I think A LOT if not most or all of many of the problems we face today are caused by ours and other federal governments.  However, after trying the protesting route, petitions, etc. I have found that actually getting elected might be one of the few mediums I have where I can ACTUALLY make the and see the differences that need to start to happen.  I picked education because I personally believe that it starts with getting the youth to be able to and live in an environment that fosters independent thought so that hopefully we may all be able to question our governments decisions and (very optimistic here) create enough action oriented youth that change (media, government, NGO, etc) actually, truly beings to occur.  (sorry... long run on)

Yea, I've heard it before, but I refuse to accept that money is the motivator.

There have been many societies in the past that have lived a prosperous life without money or any form of such.

Money is the only thing on this planet that is created out of thin air by humans, and it is the only thing that can disappear at any time, and nothing would change.


Look at the great depression. When no one had a penny to their name and everything was shutting down (in most parts of the world construction stopped completely), the American Government gave tax free money to the artists, actors, and musicians of America so they could continue creating entertainment for the public. So, in the time when there was no money to help anyone out, the government of all people, 'found' money to give to the group of people who's only contribution to society is entertainment? That right there shows, that the whole idea of money is kind of a joke.

The way I see it, money is a by-product of what you do. And sure, there are a lot of people out there who work for a living, hate their job, but do it for money, and they use this money to get "things" that they feel is necessary to keep their spot in the social ladder. this leads to things like a married couple living in a 7 bedroom McMansion with 4 vehicles and a vacation home less than an hours drive from home, and to them, these are necessities to their personal worth. They worked for these things, and it is their right to have them. that is the kind of mentality that working for money does (IMO).


Now, your reasoning behind why money is "the most important thing in human societies" is because "it makes it possible to exchange your labour for the labour of another person". Well, why do you need money for that to happen exactly? As long as everyone is doing something, everything will get done, and we will have more freedom to do what we want. Think about how many musicians or artists have given up "the dream" because they couldn't make enough money to pay the bills and had to get a "real job". Are you telling me that no one appreciated their work? Even if you don't make it big, you have the ability to entertain and inspire large amounts of people, but because of our obsession with money, this can never happen. I believe that the arts (including sports, art, music, dance, etc) is one of the most important things in the human society, and although people may try to argue that money is the motivator to greatness, I 100% disagree and think that money hinders true expression, forcing people to follow the formula they know works, and will be successful. Look at "Pop" music, that shit shouldn't even exist, and yet, they're making the most money in the whole music industry. And as for skiing, I have way too many poor ski bum friends for anyone to try and argue that people try to become pro skiers because of the money involved.