North Korea vs USA (basically)

What are you talking about man?

An unpopular belief system? You make him sound like he is oppressed. The kid is an idiot. Nothing he says is factually accurate and he uses his posts to push hate and ignorance and some type of warped ultra right wing agenda.

And I guess you can call me "small-minded" after not reading any of my posts about the topic before it was hijacked. And I can't really defend myself except by saying that I have lived and worked in 4 different countries and lived in 3 and traveled to just about every other state. I don't know what really constitutes your definition of small mindedness but I can pretty safely say I am higher educated, more worldly, and of higher intelligent than ATLskier.

Then again this is just the internet and I could just be talking out of my ass, I'm not, but I have no way of proving it. Basically fuck off.

And I know a lot of people who have lived in former communist countries, there were a lot of pros and cons that they described. Their final conclusion is that a social democracy is the best type of system to live in. Most of Europe adheres to this type of system and the living standards in an advanced social democracy are far above the US both in education and social programs. It is this fear of anything social that is holding back the US in medicine, education and any number of other advancements. We need to break though the "red scare" and start doing what is better for our country.

But that is just my 2 cents.

You made a really good post. However, today's recession is not caused by strictly banks. There are so many factors and so much I could spew on and on about that has more to do than lending in the wrong hands. People give the housing bubble too much credit, it didn't really do much but it was the first thing to hit home hard. That's why it's been blown up so much.

I disagree completely on tribes in Africa being A. Free market and B. the happiest people on earth. I have a few friends from the Dinka tribe (largest in South Sudan) and they had miserable lives in Africa. Tribes are generally communist/socialist. They will share tasks and build as a community (hence communism) in order to survive. Most people in African tribes live like this. Also the ones dependent on foreign aid are in no way shape or form free market. It is very tough to get any sort of free market atmosphere in Africa because of the dumping of food into there. The continent never has a chance to develop an agricultural basis like Europe and the US have.

Recessions are part of economic cycle. They will happen. The world will never just collapse because of technological advancement. This is what drives our economy at the moment. The problem is we aren't creating any technological capital intensive goods to make outsourcing work. Our population is not as innovative as it used to be and there are a lot of things holding it back. As soon as we can shape this and have another automobile or electronic boom, we will be back in the economic clear.

You are right. The problem is this theory isn't applicable because it makes far too many assumptions to be used in today's society.

Thanks. I was oversimplifying it quite a bit, I know. The housing bubble and credit crisis was only part of it, but the other part was also the natural downswing from the 90s, when the USA was peaking.

I was talking about tribes who are not in conflict in terms of genocide and government corruption, which I know there are a few of. An economic boom could potentially start World War III. Resources are becoming more and more scarce, and a boom would create a need for more of these resources, specifically oil, and cause greater conflict between countries. Capital-intensive goods would exacerbate that effect quite a bit, seeing as how the market for these goods would increase as soon as it became successful, furthering the need for even MORE capital. As you can see, it starts a pattern of eating up our resources. The greater the economic growth, the more resources we use, and the more complex our lives become. Simplicity, in my humble opinion, is key.

Maybe I'm an idealist; maybe I'm a dreamer. I just want to live long enough to see the world develop into a peaceful place where money has less priority than love and happiness.

Ok, there were plenty of other posts in this thread that were about as dumb as this one but this one was about the dumbest.

"It is actually the best political system on paper."  - Seriously? You think a system that punishes productivity and rewards need is the best out there? Because that is what communism does, both in effect, and on paper.


"However it has ben deemed "evil" because it goes against all western ideoligies."

Yes it does go against western "ideologies." Especially the ones involving progress, productivity, and innovation. Communism promotes non of those, because it gives people no reason to try and achieve anything. Under communism you would still get the same amount of food, housing, and quality of life if you worked hard or were lazy as fuck. The result is that people tend to be lazy as fuck until someone points a gun at their head. Where capitalism, and the free market economy, encourages productivity and innovation out of people through their own ambitions, communism requires the government to do so. The result of this is that all 'successful' communist countries require an oppressive government in order to keep up with capitalist countries. Thus communism and individual freedom are unable to coexist. While I would not say that a governmental system that is non compatible with freedom is evil I would say its a very bad idea.


"the leaders in countries where communism has been installed have also given it a bad label."

read above, there was a fucking reason they were given a bad label, their dictators.


"Yes in Russia millions of innocent people were killed under Stalins rule but communism catapulted that world into the most advanced and powerful nation for a brief period in the 1950's."

First off, do you know anything about history? They were not the most advanced, nor the most powerful nation at any time under Stalin, or any other communist leader. In the 1950's the USSR could barely feed its population, and in some cases could not. Where America was able to invest in its economy the USSR had to invest the vast majority of its gdp into the military and government in order to maintain control. And even with that, they were still leagues behind the United States in terms of Military power.
Even if they had been the most powerful, would it had justified the millions of that died from labor camps or were executed? Let alone the millions more that suffered in the labor camps and gulags.  In the opinion of this American, no amount of security or power justifies such horrific atrocities.


"China is also doing quite well being communist aswell." 

China's economy has been in the shit hole for most of the last 60 years. It has only started to improve as they have opened up the market to private firms and private property. Still the vast majority of Chinese have a horrible standard of living.


"All im saying is labeling a political system without knowing the facts is western arrogance at its peak."

You seem pretty arrogant yourself since you obviously never really considered the consequences of and the effect of communism.


"Im canadian so im north american and i believe that if communism is done how its supposed to be done it will solve many of the economic problems we face today."

The best way to solve the current economic problems is through hard work, innovation and creative thinking. These are three things which communism discourages, while capitalism actively encourages and rewards.

"It sure did in Russia 75 years ago and belive it still can "

Again, check your history there. The communist revolution was in 1917 which was 92 years ago. 75 years ago in 1934 was right before Stalin had to go to war with an army that did not have enough guns for all of its soldiers. Also the last time Russia saw anything involving economic productivity was under Catherin the Great back in the 1800's.

This is in response to Ben. too.



My point is that putting blacklisting and McCarthy together does not make sense. HE DID NOT DO BLACKLISTING. Joseph McCarthy, although not using the best tactics to do it, sought out disloyal and communist infiltration in the government. He exposed tons of communists that infiltrated the government. It should not be communism, but HUACism(yes I know that doesnt roll off the tongue). The term is misused, describing people who had destroyed resputations from false accusations. But McCarthy didnt make false accusations.

McCarthyism is a myth concocted by liberals to conceal their unpatriotic stance and their defense of communists by rewriting history to victimize communists and to blacken the name of Joseph McCarthy. Liberals appeased communist spies back in the day and argue that their reputations were destroyed. But the overwhelming evidence shows the "supposed" communists were communists and spies for the Soviet Union. Liberals were able to make a few arguments prior to 1995, but the release of the Venona Project showed the decoded KGB and GRU traffic that proved McCarthy was right about communist spy infiltration in our government.

McCarthyism is a product of liberals, who use it to disguise their appeasement of America’s enemies, their lies, and faults. President Nixon actually fought Soviet espionage when he exposed the Truman and Roosevelt administrations for appointing Alger Hiss, a paid, ideogically-committed agent of soviet intelligence. Nixon showed the world that liberals failed to combat Soviet espionage at the highest reaches of government. To conceal who Alger Hiss really was, liberals called Nixon’s exposure of the situation, “McCarthyism.” On July 11, 1995, the government released decoded messages from Soviet cables in the Venona project. The information proved both Joseph McCarthy’s, and Richard Nixon’s accusations were true

Liberals use the myth of McCarthyism in many fashions to nullify charges of being unpatriotic and treasonous. Whenever they are charged with being unpatriotic, they say they are victims of McCarthyism (saying they are the victims of accusations with no evidence-the opposite of McCarthy's accusations).


want another example?

In the 1988 presidential campaign, Vice President George Bush pointed out that his opponent Michael Dukakis had vetoed a bill requiring students to begin their day with the Pledge of Allegiance….Dukakis instantly compared Bush’s dastardly trick of citing his record ‘to Sen. Joseph McCarthy’s red-baiting during the 1950’s. Dukakis was unpatriotic, and the only way he could disguise this truth is to hide it using McCarthyism.



Despite the premise that McCarthy may not have employed the best tactics in dealing with communist infiltration of the United States government, he identified the Communist agenda, who they were, and that Soviet espionage in the United States Government was a verifiable problem that needed to be remedied. However, liberals continually insist that McCarthy damaged many people’s reputations. As a result of their continued use of these accusations, they have also hurt McCarthy’s reputation with some Americans, which obscures the truth. Liberals victimized communists in order to hide the fact that they supported the communists, who charaded as liberals, and to conceal that they were unpatriotic by enabling the United States’ enemies, the Soviets, which is nothing but treason.



I dont need to defend my self to your stupid post. I along with skiminnesota, delphi and a few other loyal americans use something called facts, and rational thought to make our arguements, instead of just going ad hominem to attack the other side. I couldnt give a shit if you respect me or e-hate me.

Russia got the first man in space and the first satellite.
We got the first man on the moon, as well as the first space walk.
I would hardly say they 'won' the space race.
Plus people in the US were not FUCKING STARVING.

For taking a Russian history class you seem to be missing out on the part where Life in the USSR fucking blew monkey nuts.
Plus you should probably take a spelling class as well.

and one other thing, if you think communism would work why don't you just go try and move to a communist country, Pretty sure you would be one of the firsts. 
Why, despite the USSR being 'technologically more advanced' then any 'Western' country, did they have trouble feeding their population and millions tried to escape from the USSR.
People have never had to 'escape' form the United States (minus slavery), they are all free to go. The United States has never had a problem keeping its citizens here, as apposed to Cuba, China and the USSR. You know why those countries have to actively maintain a closed boarder to keep their citizens in? Because life in those countries sucks balls. I don't want my life to suck balls, so I am not gonna move to a communist country. But you can make your own decision.

One day you will wake the fuck up.


And SirFyranator has turned into a big hippie douche bag.  we should just 'exist' What the fuck is that crap. Life gotta have meaning.

wasnt the goal of the space race to reach the moon? it was a race.

The ultimate failure of the Russians and space was their space shuttle program. They pretty much copied everything from our space shuttle program and spent 20 billion roubles and starved their country, only to have one unmanned launch. It failed terribly.

they've had some good advancements in airplanes and stuff. The An-225 is the largest airplane in the world and is pretty badass. Most of the airplanes developed by the Russians were not very safe, however, when they were owned by the government. Once the airplane manufacturers were bought and privatized, they had better safety records.

And Billy hasn't changed.

We can't argue the meaning of life; everyone has their own version of what life means and how one should live it. I guess I have some hippie ideals but that's because I'm sick of the bullshit that I've been surrounded with for all my life. I've been controlled, manipulated, and made to think that we're here to be productive and work.

FUCK THAT.

putting a man in space and putting a weapon in space are two very different things.

being a patriot is more than flying an american flag or celebrating July 4th or any other number of american holidays.  being a patriot  means that ultimately you know what your flag represents and that if it ever came to it and the US mainland was invaded you would be willing to fight to keep this truly the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave"

and asian allen...  for not knowing that the Vatican is actually a country you are now more of a moron than me and many of the other conservatives on this site as we have been labeled....

I do agree with your earlier statement that the credit crisis is a large contributing factor in the economic downturn. I do disagree, however, with your statement that economic booms will cause world war three. This is, again, a bit of a reactionary statement. China might, as you or someone else stated earlier, hold a lot of oour bonds and currency in their banks. They are doing this to, in part, covertly deflate the value of their own currecy, as they have built up large reserves of american dollars through exports. not really relevant, moving on. They will not call in the values of these bonds or hold us economically hostage because we are their biggest buyer of goods. China is an export economy, tehy cannot sustain their fantastic amounts of growth without our market. To go to war or to encourage protectionism would only harm the quality of life of their own citizens. evidence: Shanghai just built a port that will handle the traffic of  24 billion containers. The LA and San Diego ports combined shipping ports combined can only handle about 14 billion. Ask Grubb and Ellis's supply chain management wing.

Moving to WW3 comment. IF you look at the production possibilites curve, you will know (as an econ studier like myself) that they only way to sustainably grow the economy is through an increase in technology. Now, why is this relevant? Growth in capital or labor can only do so much, due to diminishing returns. The most abundant resource on this planet is human ingenuity. GE is already researching extensively into desalination plants and making them economically viable for governments to combat water shortage in 1st world countries, and working wtih other subsidiaries to make water purification in lesser developed countries a bountiful resource. I saw it myself at their research center in Beijing. Water will be our most scarce resource in the next 50 years, al GE's 4000 person research center. Panasonic has built a prototype house that combines ambient lighting with LED lighting and smart grid technology to reduce household emissions by 65%, and the remaining 35 percent were taken care of by a fuel cell, solar panels, and lithium batteries. Viable now? no. in the future? possibly. The idea here is the BLENDING of natural life (simplicity from natural lighting, etc.) with high end technology (human ingenuity, powered by investment and global cooperation.) the age of protectionism and border shouting has passed. In order to make life simple, and more enjoyable, we MUST cooperate. Panasonic's slogan is "ideas for life," does that not embody simplicity? And its working. The per capita GDP of the chinese and south koreans has skyrocketed in the last 15 years. Why? economic development and global trade.

Communism, on paper and in small communities works. But in a complex global environment, realistically, we have to work with the current systems in place, and that demands global cooperation, ingenuity, and the sharing of our stongest asset, knowledge. Agqain, not china. Deng Xiaopeng (i think, leader after mao, correct me if im wrong.) opened the doors of china a crack in 1978, and the doors are mostly wide open in the big cities now. Look what has happened. Imagine if North Korea sobered up a bit and did the same thing... imagine the lives that would be so mcuh better off.

Last point: to comment on the demand pull inflation, an increase in the aggregate DEMAND curve (shift to the right) is countered with a wage push, shifting the aggregate supply curve leftward. If this happens repeatedly, it causes inflation. HOWEVER, if the aggregate demand curve is pushed by an increase in investment and consumer spending (fed by a growth in wealth, which is usually driven by an increase in GDP from an increase in technology) increases the quality of life and negates the growth in currency. But again, I'm only a student. correct me if I'm wrong. Sorry for the rant, and this is meant to be productive, not a shouting match, so my bad, just got a little heated a bit before. do work, fuck bitches get money.

That was really helpful, I didn't know a lot of that. Thanks for that last point, especially. I realized that during my exam. This is a good way of using NSG.

wait whats NSG

non-ski gabber. you almost never see posts that well-researched

wow you should really do your research before you call someone out,

fact- U.S does still have troops in Vietnam
fact- Vatican is its own country 

if their missiles are built anything like their cars im not worried

babylon shall fall

great point/ maybe best post on the topic

especially the last paragraph

you are so fucking stupid

Gnartron OWNT!!!!!! We have protected (HA, not even semi protected but whatever) borders to keep people out, not to keep our own people from leaving. Why the fuck do you think the US is such an appetizing destination for people from all over the planet? They are sick of the bullshit conditions in their own countries. and to Gnartron, if you are a scholar of Russian history, you are either a gigantic slacker or just a woefully terrible student. I took Russian history in highschool and a world war one class in college and have a greater grasp of the topic than you do. If you want to brag about being well versed in such an area, please at least ATTEMPT to know what the fuck you are talking about.

why did you think that communism in eastern Europe fell? because they started to see the western world, and thought "shit they are better of then us" and then they told the comunnists to fuck off, and they became capitalist. also, your retarded.

Fuck the gooks, i never liked rice anyway!

they voted for non communist partys because they saw the freedoms and how much better the west had it.

thank you

Yeah but I only had to read the news to make this thread.  Although I did expect it to get really long with terribly researched posts.  Things are simply reaching the breaking point.  NK will not keep getting away with its "muscle-flexing".  Just watch, things will get out of hand.  The UN will do something this time because nukes are involved, and by now the world knows well, you don't fuck around with nukes.  Anything less than a nuke is pretty tame you must admit.

north korea will be to tired to fight after all that crazy fucking marching they do lol.

thats the vietnamese....

no no, it's koreans

good point.

im not sure what everybody is arguing in this thread but today, Wen. 27th of June, North Korea threatened to wipe the United States off the map.

just some interesting news.

We all know Obama will not start a war and I dont think North Korea will start a war unless provoked so i just see this as a really tense time.

That makes me laugh. NK doesnt even have a reliable means to get a nuke even remotely close to america, let alone invade it.

Its dangerous to underestimate them though. They could destroy New York or LA if they could smuggle a bomb into a port.

Even if they don't have enough enriched material to make a bomb they could detonate a dirty bomb which could make vast areas radioactive killing thousands even millions. We need to try to get the people on our side by improving internet and TV access and try to improve living conditions.

I thought that Kims kid is in charge now and he is even more insane so we will have to be careful with this situation.

.... its not fucking al quaeda...

that doesn't mean that they couldn't unite in hate for America and sell a weapon to a terrorist group.

I don't know what they are capable of. If I were the less powerful force I would look for ways to gain a tactical advantage and by a first strike covert nuclear attack you could gain the upper hand.

Sounds like stuff is going to hit the fan

North Korea accused Washington of seeking to "provoke a second Korean War" as the regime prepared to hold maritime military exercises off the eastern coast. U.S. and regional authorities were watching closely for signs that North Korea might fire short- or mid-range missiles during the June 25 to July 10 timeframe cited in a no-sail ban for military drills sent to Japan's Coast Guard

we both fail actually, it was used in both wars. my bad

fuck north korea

well said

As soon as the DPRK launches another one of those BIG missiles, toward Hawaii especially, America will get super angry.  Something pivotal will happen and I doubt it will be peaceful.

On the other hand, NK might just settle down for a while because they know SURE they have a huge army but Amercia has TECHNOLOGY that is faaar superior.

you spelled pseudo wrong 

What he said is true but needed to be better put. Yet communism needs to function alone and works better in a small community like cuba. But in a large scale its not going to happen

The fact is there is no current economic system that works. In my eyes capitalism is a terrible system that relies survival of the fittest principles and crisis, yet it is the best of the worst.

word i feel the same. there might not be any way for 6+ billion people to live happily on earth. i think our moden life has taught us that science technology and progress can fix any problem. but some problems really might not have a solution.

what is wrong with survival of the fittest really?

In North Korea they think that Kim is the creator of Disney films. It's taught in school.

dumbass

you, are an intelligent person. thank you.

hahahahah.  the public are SO deliberately misinformed.  that could actually be true.

They also boast about this retarded desk Kim Jong IL invented that rises when turning a lever to angle the writing surface which makes a students classwork more comfortable...they treat this desk like it is a god damn invention of the Hubble telescope.

And enough with the economic communist bullshit, this is a serious issue and what's going to happen is up in the air...I've spoken to kids in the Navy and Air force who mentioned they will potentially be sent to N. Korea in the near future. I hate to be this drastic, but if N. Korea sends a warhead toward Hawaii, I say we drop an enormous bomb on Pyongyang and wherever N. K. has military bases.

KJ is a real high class guy

U.S. CIA officials report that Kim is the world's biggest consumer of Hennessey. His drink of choice costs more than $600/bottle, bringing up a total of about $700,000/year. Most North Koreans would only be able to buy 1.5 bottles of Kim's pricey beverage in a year. (CNN)

He is easily the best golfer ever to live. In his first golf outing, he shot 11 hole-in-ones and returned to the clubhouse with a 38 under par score. At least, that's what's reported in North Korea's government-controlled media. (World Tribune - Move over Tiger Woods)

bahahhahaha