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Foam Pits... Cheating?

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WHO_DAT
Posts: 403 - Karma: 24


I was talking to another NS member about Woodward @ Copper and she said she wasn't sure how she felt about it because she thought it was cheating, and she thinks getting hurt is what teaches you lessons. It was interesting to hear her say that, because I have never looked at it that way before...

When I started learning front flips I didn't have the luxury of foam pits at the time, and actually ended up dislocating my T10 vertebrae and had to be airlifted. I'm lucky to still be walking, much less skiing. I always thought skiing was for fun, and why hurt yourself over and over when you can learn tricks the right way, right away... without having to suffer through it. I don't think being "tough" or having a lot of previous injuries is what makes you a good skier. Everyone falls eventually, why not be safer about it?

What are your thoughts on this?
Do you see the foam pits as cheating, or a smarter way to learn tricks?
May 15 2009 2:40PM
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urbanjib
Posts: 1801 - Karma: 255
its a smarter way to learn tricks...

Its like saying wearing a helmet is cheating death, if you hit your head your supposed to die

They help you learn tricks, and while i do not believe in relying on them, it can help you get the form needed to try on snow...

But i believe that you should absolutely not rely on them to learn everything
May 15 2009 2:43PM
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pjbauer
Posts: 2145 - Karma: 480
i do not think its cheating, but just a smarter way to learn tricks..

For example, mike clarke is an athlete that skied for waterville academy and for summer training i am almost positive he would go  to the lake placid water ramp camps.  In addition to mike clarke tanner hall trains at the ramp camp in utah on both the trampolines and the water ramps.
May 15 2009 2:47PM
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Mrvic.
Posts: 1033 - Karma: 154
no... foam pits are not cheating
May 15 2009 2:51PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084

so all the pros cheat when they hit a water ramp?

i know that some badass hardcore skier will come up in this thread and state that it is cheating. but we have those airbag thingys at my mountain, and i used it this year on like every 2/3 laps. what can i say, i learned lincolns, fronts, cork7s, misty 7s and even octos that way.

maybe a foam pit is safer than that, but for airbags, you can still come too far to one side and hit the ground pretty hard, overshoot it (a buddy almost broke his spine that way, well he actually broke it, but hes not paralyzed), or you can land in some awkward stance than can twist your knees since the carpet has pretty good friction...

BOTTOM LINE:

i didnt hurt myself all season (using an airbag/learning some new tricks), so even it was cheating, i would still do it...

May 15 2009 2:53PM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
Absolutely not. I'd rather get a feel for a trick on tramps/ramps/foam pits before taking them to snow. Back in the day we didn't really have that luxury and it was more of just going out and doing it.
May 15 2009 2:55PM
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ryan.s
Posts: 462 - Karma: 47
its called practice
May 15 2009 3:00PM
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klingisking
Posts: 802 - Karma: 925
not cheeting..
May 15 2009 3:00PM
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Twaddler
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 109

i know Jon's taken alot of shit about using water ramps

i think the main hate generator is that very few people have access to foam or water ramps and it can come off as an unfair advantage. kind of comperable to kids who can afford COC or Windells versus kids who have to hit pvc rails on turf all summer

May 15 2009 3:02PM
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joey.
Posts: 2087 - Karma: 3,337
this is me
May 15 2009 3:09PM
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The_Tim
Posts: 779 - Karma: 36
a girl said it was cheating? fuck girls need foam pits more than ever. its pathetic.

its called being smart. the sport isn't going to progress if everyone has to learn on a park jump. teaching lessons? your friend is a retard.
May 15 2009 3:15PM
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EAST~COAST
Posts: 1017 - Karma: 91
im not even gonna respond to how stupid that girl is for telling you foam pits are cheating
May 15 2009 3:18PM
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Cincher
Posts: 3403 - Karma: 535
Are boxes in terrain parks cheating? No! Boxes help create a learning curve that help newb park rats like me get the feel of things. I don't see a diff between that and foam pits.
May 15 2009 3:23PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
That sounds like what a pissed off person would say. People who think like that probably have the kind of mindset where they believe they aren't the best at something because they weren't given the advantages others had. Where I ski the park sucks, we get little snow, and there weren't even any jumps this year. Other kids get to ski at places like park city and then hit water ramps in the summer and they are probably way better than me. Their luxuries don't make me butthurt.
May 15 2009 3:32PM
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WHO_DAT
Posts: 403 - Karma: 24
My thoughts exactly... and I am a girl.
May 15 2009 4:24PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
this is why women shouldn't be allowed to talk to each other.
May 15 2009 4:37PM
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WHO_DAT
Posts: 403 - Karma: 24
This is why you should stop assuming every female to female conversation is like the ones you see watching soap operas with your mom every morning.

I'm not saying she's wrong, I'm just asking other people's opinions.
A guy would have said "Shut the f**k up you stupid b***h you can't even ski, all you're good for is suckin mah D."

This isn't a war of the sexes, stay on the topic.
May 15 2009 4:56PM
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Static
Posts: 8491 - Karma: 4,059
lol, you get all upity talking shit about dudes hangin' with their moms. Then go on to fill in sexist words for "a guy" and try to get out of it by saying it's not a war of the sexes, no shit you hippocrite. But you're right, in reality we really don't care what women have to say.
May 15 2009 5:05PM
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Ian.Ham
Posts: 1678 - Karma: 1,101
wow all you peeps are super sexist
May 15 2009 5:10PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
you couldn't tell what a joke was if one danced naked in front of you.
May 15 2009 5:13PM
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mackinnon
Posts: 5153 - Karma: 156
this is the dumbest thing i've read all day.
May 15 2009 5:15PM
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WHO_DAT
Posts: 403 - Karma: 24
I can kind of see your point... but it's indirectly hurting them.

That's kind of like saying more people are going to get hurt wearing a helmet because they'll be more brave to do stuff they wouldn't normally do.

I guess that really doesn't have anything to do with cheating or not though.
May 15 2009 5:22PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
I agree with steve on this...


I never really thought I could rodeo on skis until I tried it on a trampoline.

It would be safer if I were going to try this trick regardless, but I wasn't motivated to take such a risk until I tramped a bit.

So now when I go skiing I will take bigger risks.

Funny how that works.
May 15 2009 5:35PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
maybe i'm the only one, but i'd rather die knowing i'm doing something stupid and risky, than die in the safety of my own home or something. plus, if i was dead, i wouldn't really give a fuck what anybody had to say about how i shouldn't have taken the risk or whatever. the entire concept of safety frightens me more than the danger of getting killed or seriously injured.
May 15 2009 5:41PM
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JsNeagle
Posts: 1399 - Karma: 1,506
i don't think it's cheating, my only issue with water ramps and foam pits is that it's not the same as real skiing. I feel like I learn tricks better when I do them on snow where I'm comfortable. With a jump im comforable with, etc. I know some of my friends feel the same way. water ramps sketch me out, i dont like going perfectly straight into a jump
May 15 2009 5:53PM
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inactive
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 97
interesting arguement
May 15 2009 5:59PM
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traylortrash
Posts: 1935 - Karma: 2,450
hahaha exactly
May 15 2009 6:07PM
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Zoro
Posts: 1253 - Karma: 37
i jealous of people with foam pits
May 15 2009 6:25PM
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Willard
Posts: 5117 - Karma: 429
There just jealous ignorant people if they had a foam pit placed in front of them they just be like well i have been wanting to try that trick for while
May 15 2009 6:28PM
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joey.
Posts: 2087 - Karma: 3,337
im not so much afraid of death as i am of being paralyzed
May 15 2009 6:29PM
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Zoro
Posts: 1253 - Karma: 37
yea if im ever paralyzed then whoever pulls the plug on me first gets karma
May 15 2009 6:48PM
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Z_rob
Posts: 3076 - Karma: 152
haha good analogy
May 15 2009 6:52PM
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ninjax6792
Posts: 510 - Karma: 12
She's saying trying to protect yourself is cheating?
May 15 2009 7:13PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
everyone who knows me, already knows to kill me if that ever happens.
May 15 2009 7:15PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,018
tr00f
May 15 2009 8:01PM
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OGHolliday
Posts: 2390 - Karma: 2,430
If i had acces to a foam pit I would use it all day. Why would you want to get hurt? Coming to Copper next winter!
May 15 2009 8:06PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15949 - Karma: 9,431
haha let her do it the "right" way and then see who gets better
May 15 2009 8:14PM
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Shewlur...
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 940
i wanna meet up with the chick who told you that and slap her across the face.
May 15 2009 8:50PM
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,785
Haha this thread is funny.
And foam pits are probably the best form of training that you can get other than actually skiing. You go off a snow-imitating surface shaped like a real kicker, and land in the best imitation of bottomless pow. This is easier and cheaper than finding fresh pow in the middle of summer and in the off season. Who wouldn't want to learn new tricks or just get confident trying something they think they know how to do, but wouldn't really want to attempt on snow?

As for the getting hurt more easily, that'll probably happen to some people, but not for everyone. I've heard somewhere that helmets can actually increase the likelyhood of a bad head injury (I don't know if that was exactly what I heard or where I heard it), because people push themselves harder and don't mind falling on their heads. But not everyone is going to have this extra over-confidence, and for the ones who ski normally helmets are just the last line of protection in a shitty situation that can make it a little better.
Not exactly the same as the foam pits, but kinda similar.

Foam pits/water ramps can make you cocky and arrogant, or just help the progression without having to wait for that epic pow day to build a jump or break your back by just going for it on some icy jump.
May 15 2009 9:12PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
Being paralyzed would be the worst thing that could happen to me.  Just clarify, that's just to me and my body, not anybody else.
May 15 2009 9:24PM
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Shlogan
Posts: 4942 - Karma: 430
i guess i don't have much neck strength, because there has been a few times when i have caught an edge and it my head really hard, and i always feel like i just hit so much harder on my head because my neck cant fight the extra weight of the helmet. don't know if this is actually true, but it def feels like it. also to the op, that chick is kinda stupid. i do not agree that it is cheating, if it is helping you to ski better than there is nothing wrong. BUT i would say if you have the option of pow instead go with that, because you can ride it out and will just be a better overall simulation of a park jump, just a different landing.
May 15 2009 9:31PM
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,785
^You might just have a heavy helmet... Mine is so light I seriously can't even tell it's on my head.
May 15 2009 9:35PM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,086
Bah. Foam pits are super helpful.

Do they allow me to do stupider stuff on snow? Sure. But it's not like I wouldn't or don't try the same things into deep pow when it comes. Foam pits just don't collect bomb holes (if you fluff them properly).
May 15 2009 9:45PM
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BootySpunk.
Posts: 8148 - Karma: 84
Bomb hole + foam pits + big air into foam pit = hitting the bottom. I hate it when foam pits are shallow or not fluffed because hitting the bottom of those things from like 10ft up does not feel good.
May 15 2009 9:47PM
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WIfreeskier
Posts: 8125 - Karma: 65
pow is my foam pit
May 15 2009 9:58PM
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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,841
I hate that so much. You just flying and having such a good time until you hit a solid surface instead of the soft foam you are expecting.
May 15 2009 10:36PM
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strongmark
Posts: 3278 - Karma: 883
no it isnt.
May 15 2009 10:54PM
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TheQuailman
Posts: 7381 - Karma: 144

shutup, you work for woodward, you have no right to say anything

I don't care about your stupid facility, these boards are not for advertising

take out an ad

May 16 2009 12:32AM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15949 - Karma: 9,431
i feel like such a tool now haha. i shouldve looked at the name... ITS A TRAP
May 16 2009 12:55AM
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DBeck
Posts: 1275 - Karma: 63
the only way i feel cheated is that kids with rich ass parents have huge advantages. summer camps, more/better traveling, water ramping, now foam pits. but there's nothing i can do about that and nothing anyone will ever be able to do about that so i guess its just gonna be how it works.

But I think the one of the biggest things that make pro skiers pro skiers are not only natural ability and dedication, but that they must be tough as shit to take falls and beatings day after day on such large features and walk away unharmed for the most part.
May 16 2009 1:01AM
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WHO_DAT
Posts: 403 - Karma: 24
LOL

Not. The girl was talking to me because I work at Woodward. It's not about advertising... we had an entire article done by NS. We don't need more advertising.

It was an honest question because I had never heard anyone say that to me before.


Besides, marketing isn't my gig. Chill out.
May 16 2009 1:15AM
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