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God.

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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Out of curiosity, what are your beliefs on the existence of God?

Please be precise, and try to conform to the following:
1.  Does one exist?
2.  If so, who/what is it?
3.  Said God's moral standards?
4.  Why do you believe in said deity?

Rules to the thread:

1. Bump at your own risk
2. Keep it relatively clean (PG-13 ish)
3. Try to be open-minded.
4. Piss off the moderator at your own risk
5. No, Chuck Norris is not a God.
May 2 2009 12:42AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Thats my point! "God did it" doesnt explain shit either! Its a bullshit answer that should hold the same or less weight as "I dont know".
May 2 2009 11:55PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
dude, it was HIS FIRST POST. it looked an awful lot like a kid just trying to start shit. but it turns out it wasnt. im sorry, im not perfect.
May 2 2009 11:58PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
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which looks more appetizing?  i vote the second.



and thats not even getting into the Alabama Hot Pocket.....   *shudders*




May 2 2009 11:58PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
And saying "Science did it" is better?

I think we agree on this point.  The beginning is unknown.  Thus, we cannot say GOD or SCIENCE yet.
May 2 2009 11:59PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Okay, so you like to eat anything that you can shove in your mouth.

Even if it is round, and sometimes tubular with odd stuffing.

Okay, whatever floats your boat there.
May 3 2009 12:01AM
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TheSpaceCowboy
Posts: 1353 - Karma: 31
hedonist, marxist, pessimist, chauvinist, realist, agnostic, the list goes on. but those are just words.
May 3 2009 12:01AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
which brings an INTERESTING point. how come athiests are never possessed and need to be exorcised?
May 3 2009 12:03AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
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i like something like this....


god i hope that "i have been vegan for a day" chick doesnt show up again.
May 3 2009 12:03AM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
God doesn't want his miracles EXAMINED! JEEEEEEEEZ Rowen. God works in mysterious ways. I smell bullshit on that fire story.
May 3 2009 12:03AM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
You've been long forgiven.

I am clearly not perfect as well, considering that I shoulda known better to start things off with this sort of thread.  Watch when I try to do another one and this one comes to bite me in the ass.
May 3 2009 12:05AM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
That is a good question.

Maybe it's just psychological?
May 3 2009 12:06AM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Well, it was a secondhand story from a missionary.

It does sound improbable, but I have seen personally, a man walk on fire and his feet are fine.  Now THAT could be asbestos.
May 3 2009 12:07AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Of course, yes. And its not to equate the two at all, as one is a system of belief, versus... well, knowledge.

I think its natural for human beings to create religion. Religion provides a way of social order, of social ingroups and outgroups, reason and consolation. And believe me, even though I wasnt raised Christian, I know what its like to have a comforting guy up there somewhere always watching me. But Santa Claus had to go away, because believing that a fat guy makes it down your chimeny every christmas eve, as well as every single child's furnace exhaust and ventilation system in the world, all within 24 hours, was, well, ludacris.

It feels good to believe something. But you can have all the faith in the world and still be wrong. Never let your beliefs cloud reason.
May 3 2009 12:07AM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
Ya think?

Or they're just faking it. What about all those Episcopalians who randomly start speaking in tongues because the lord is soaring through them? They look and sound like a bunch of nut-jobs.
May 3 2009 12:08AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
id do whatever the fuck people wanted if they were trying to get the devil out of me, just to get them to stop. speak in tongues? sure. i can make up some hella good jibberish
May 3 2009 12:09AM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Religion can be that, and more, depending on how you want it and how you like it,

Personally, I dislike "Religion", and go by my own beliefs over years of questioning different faiths.

Christianity just seems (so far) to be the best one for the job for me.  So, my reason just determined my faith.  Not my faith determining reason.  I still question my faith daily, it's good testing grounds.

As for Santa, agreed.
May 3 2009 12:10AM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Steak is delicious.

Vegans can go whine about animal rights, but I have canines. (hah, another rhyme)
May 3 2009 12:11AM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Who on earth is crazy enough to fake being possessed?

Seriously, a lot of them do some major damage to their own bodies by self-inflicted torture.  Others destroy valuables when they have seizures.  Others still are diagnosed with random diseases of the brain.

Episcopalians on the other hand are an odd bunch.  It's definitely psychological there.
May 3 2009 12:14AM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
Crazy is the key word. They are bonkers so why should we think because someone goes nuts and conjures up some fake "possession" that there are demons and spirits?
May 3 2009 12:17AM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
Well it is a combination of both, in a way. While the essence of faith is belief in something of which there is no proof, God has shown himself in many ways. Explain the prophets, Jesus, and various other saints and religious figures. We know as fact that they did exist. Explain Our Lady of Guadalupe, whose figure exists to this day, with science. Explain the fact that wide majority of people on this Earth believe in a higher power (including 86% in the United States). (And I know that you are going to rip on this point, but it is fact the humans, as they are technically animals, have instincts) Could it simply be human instinct that there is a God?

By the way, NS is basically made up of almost primarily teenagers and younger adults. Teenagers and younger adults, as a demographic, are at a point where they are trying to understand their place in life, what they're meant for, etc. Somehow, at this point, God often gets sidetracked or whatever, which is fine. However, most people end up coming back in the end.

And I know I fail at debating. I don't really care. lol
May 3 2009 12:35AM
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josh.
Posts: 3469 - Karma: 42
just because Christianity provides all the answers doesn't make them right.

for the longest time people thought that blood letting cured sickness, does it? no, no it does not.

i could say that go created everything, but would that make it right? just becuase a 2000 year old text says so, i doubt it.

also, where did god come from?

modern science > 2000 year old scriptures
May 3 2009 1:48AM
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assface
Posts: 4319 - Karma: 2,031
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May 3 2009 2:26AM
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Calvin.
Posts: 771 - Karma: 10
The way I see it, reason clouds belief. Yes, I'm bubbling into faith. Faith is not an invalid idea. Let me explain.
There is an absolute reality. Someone has got to be right. Whether its Buddhists, Christians, Atheists, etc. Maybe no one has it figured out. BUT there has to be an absolute truth. Something has to be right.
I don't think us humans can figure out that absolute truth by ourselves. If we were completely on our own, we would never get past our perceived reality. So, to realize that you are but man, realize that you cannot transcend this perceived reality on your own, and put religion above your personal doubts is faith.  I think religion bridges the gap between perceived reality and absolute reality.
May 3 2009 3:29AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
So in summary of your point then, just to make sure I'm understanding it;

There is an absolute truth to the universe. (Someone has some muffins somewhere)
Humans cant figure out truth by themselves. (We are incapable of finding the muffins by ourselves)
Thus human faith can unveil the truth. (As long as I believe in the almighty Scones, muffins will find me)
May 3 2009 3:42AM
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Gnarwall
Posts: 1180 - Karma: 50
I'm christian, I go to church every once in a while (like 5 times a year...) but for the most part my version of chillin' with god is going skiing or hanging out with my friends. I hate all of those super conservative Christians who try to force their religion on others, its just not right. If you dont believe it you shouldnt be forced into believing it by others. I like to think that god doesn't want me pent up in a man made church but rather lost in nature, If he created it, I'm sure that he would want me to enjoy it. I think science makes more sence for a lot of things but I really wonder about the whole "where did all of these planets and shit come from" thing. It just seems like something that couldn't be scientifically explained and its one of the main reasons I believe in god. That raises the question of where did God come from and why is he here, which is yet another question that confuses the crap out of me on a regular basis.
May 3 2009 4:26AM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 170
1. big bang probably resulted in the universe contracting after a previous expansion.... nobody knows for sure. maybe its just been an endless cycle going on forever. maybe we're just characters in an alien's video game.

2. the molecules came from the big bang... started out with just hydrogen and helium and more complex molecules began to form as everything settled after the big bang.. stars produce heavier elements.

3. what do you mean why do simple organisms still exist now? why wouldnt they still exist?

4. simpler ones formed via abiogenisis



basically all youre saying is that because science cant fully explain the beginning of time itself, then God is the answer. religion doesnt explain it any better than science, it just comes up with a completely untestable unfounded idea that a god must have made everything. it is not a valid answer to how everything started... its an explaination people come up with because they dont understand something.

May 3 2009 8:50AM
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Italian.Stallion
Posts: 564 - Karma: 101

I can interpret the Bible however i want to

I never said anything about taking the bible out of context.

Well for the brainwashing thing i also mentioned that fully believing in atheism is almost as bad as fully believing in religion to the point that it seems like you are brainwashed.

People should be able to form their own beliefs.

May 3 2009 9:58AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59

May 3 2009 11:20AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59

May 3 2009 11:27AM
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Shaky_Jake
Posts: 252 - Karma: 14
I was born and raised mormon. And i wish i had a better explanation for why i believe in God, but i just do. I just have a constant faith that He exists.

hahaha i just lined myself up for a bunch of insults.
May 3 2009 11:48AM
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kepler.
Posts: 8761 - Karma: 139
I think you just proved my whole "brainwashing" idea.
May 3 2009 11:54AM
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Swaggermager
Posts: 2576 - Karma: 951
That is very interesting. because its always the very religious people.
May 3 2009 12:03PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
lol......


if by brainwashed you mean not buying into mumbo jumbo and believing in FACT then yes, i suppose.
May 3 2009 12:37PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 9,984
Ok, so I've read through the whole thread and there are some posts worth arguing over and there are some that aren't worth reading.  Props to those who think about what they say before saying.

I am a christian and therefor I obviously believe in God, Jesus, Holy Spirit (trinity), faith, creation and what not.  Am I going to argue and try to convince you I'm right?  No.  That's stupid and an unrealistic expectation.

I believe God loves us regardless of what we believe (bring on the hate).  I believe God created man and from the beginning has given us free will and the ability to make our own decisions.  I believe we have a sinful nature and evil existing in the world and that's why crap happens.  If God intervened every time we would lose our free will and that's when I would argue God does not love us.  Can I explain why God allows a hurricane kills thousands of people or the bubonic plague killed millions?  No.

I don't think science and religion are mutually exclusive and I don't understand why people automatically assume that.  There are many christian scientists (not to be confused with the christian science religion) who don't use God as a cop out explanation for everything and research and discover just like every other scientists.

Faith is faith regardless of what you believe.  I have faith there is a God.  Rowan has faith there is no God.  Is that a big deal?  No.


May 3 2009 12:44PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
Ben. I do believe this is the single time I have ever whole-heartedly agreed with you. Religion is for scared people who cannot deal with the fact once you die the lights go out.
May 3 2009 1:02PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 9,984
And that's an ingorant statement made by someone who isn't willing to accept other peoples beliefs.
May 3 2009 1:09PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
See here's the thing, I can understand people's beliefs, it's fine. On the other hand I DO have a problem with people holding a convoluted belief with no evidence to back it up, it's like believing the moon is made of cheese, because a kid in the 4th grade told you so.
May 3 2009 1:17PM
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Italian.Stallion
Posts: 564 - Karma: 101

What I mean is you have to come up with your own opinion.  like why are you atheist? because someone told you or science proved it?  That's almost just like saying that you are religious because some guy standing on a stage is preaching at you.

If you have really given it a lot of thought and then decided that is what you believe then i am with you but if you are into atheism cuz it is cool like some of the kids i know then you are in it for the wrong reasons. 

May 3 2009 1:47PM
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2+2=5
Posts: 3676 - Karma: 18
exactly. i hate atheists that just say they dont believe in god because they wanna be cool and emo like that. thats just like believing in god because your parents told you so. i think one of the cool things about atheism is learning about science and philosophy in order to create ur own understanding of life, where we came from, and our purpose.
May 3 2009 2:00PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 170
i honestly doubt that many people are atheists "because its cool". people who are atheists think logically and realize that the idea of a god existing is very improbable.
i think the only reason people are religious is because they are brought up to believe in it. i dont think anybody, with a totally neutral viewpoint, would believe a word the bible or any other holy book says... they may choose to believe in a higher power of some sort, but i highly doubt it would be anything like the god depicted in the bible.
May 3 2009 2:38PM
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Italian.Stallion
Posts: 564 - Karma: 101

You might be surprised.

May 3 2009 3:36PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
I'm not claiming to have any faith. Based on what I've read and understood, the universe doesnt need to have a supernatural spiritual being orchestrating events and watching over humans. Humanity may not need faith or belief to survive anymore.
May 3 2009 3:40PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
 i still think the majority of humans couldn't live without pretending to know everything. sucks for the rest of us, though.
May 3 2009 3:42PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 9,984
You would also be surprised.  Take Lee Strobel for example.  He was an athiest who was the legal editor for the Chicago Tribune and went out to disprove christianity.  He interviewed scholars, scientists and other experts on both side of the argument and has since become a christian.  Read the Case for Christ sometime.  It's an interesting read to see where he came from.
May 3 2009 4:12PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
ripping on religion by atheists.... idk. i dont think its the same as the other way around. religion promotes intolerance. argue as much as you want, its a fact.
May 3 2009 4:14PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
And Atheists, or maybe at least the loudmouth ones, tend to come off as elitist assholes.
May 3 2009 4:20PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
True
May 3 2009 4:22PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
and its not just against Atheists...  its against other religions too.  like seriously, look at the "Three Big Ones"...  CHristianity, Judaism, and Islam (at least in the very little that i understand them) all have the same angels, figureheads, and main characters of stories show up.  yet they have fought each other for centuries over one little spit of land in the desert.
May 3 2009 4:22PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Then explain stigmata and other odd cases like that.

Fake possession couldn't make stuff like that happen, could it?

I'd like to hear your explanation on how it could.
May 3 2009 5:43PM
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Novea
Posts: 158 - Karma: 10
Alchemy as an "art" never came about till well after the birth and death of Christ.

The Old Testament was written in the BC's.  (or BCE's however you want to put it).

If that is the case, then why does the Bible call the stars, stars, and the sun/moon, just that?
In fact, the Old Testament is full of instances where the Israelites ganged up on the "idolaters" who believed that the stars were more than what they are, and etc.

The Bible has yet to be found to be scientifically unfactual.  Some cases cannot be proven right as well as proven wrong, like Jonah's big fish, bringing people back from the dead ,water into wine, etc.
But that's part of the point of the book.  That people can't comprehend such things, and such "miracles" occured to solidify people's trust in God.

Modern miracles do occur as well.  My mother's breast cancer for one.  She was told she had 5 months or less.  That was about a year and a half ago.  She's cancer free now, we have a check-up the 9th to make sure, though.
May 3 2009 5:47PM
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